So Michael D IS running again!

Tell me how

Is there any chance Casey is doing this to slam dunk a Dail run?

Would be very surprised if he was interested in such a role, but maybe he truly wants to work to make the country better

Tell me how

richiepurgas wrote:

Heard tonight of the launch of the ABC movement, Anyone But Casey.

Have they heard of the 5 people ahead of him in today's polls?

richiepurgas

Heard tonight of the launch of the ABC movement, Anyone But Casey.

McMurphy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If he is wrong, he is not apologising.

Jesus what would we be letting ourselves in for with that man as head of state.

He's sticking to his assertions, and clearing up any notion that people are trying to paint him as a racist or a bigot for stating that travellers are Irish, and thought giving them status as an ethnic minority was a nonsense.

Good on him.

I'd be much more worried about what we were letting ourselves in for if he didn't stick to his principles and bowed down to those who are trying to label him as something he isn't - ie spineless.



Leo's interference looks to be giving a protest vote plenty of momentum.

FrancieBrady

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

He's sticking to his assertions, and clearing up any notion that people are trying to paint him as a racist or a bigot for stating that travellers are Irish, and thought giving them status as an ethnic minority was a nonsense.

Good on him.

I'd be much more worried about what we were letting ourselves in for if he didn't stick to his principles and bowed down to those who are trying to label him as something he isn't - ie spineless.



Leo's

Even if he is proven wrong, he will stick to it? Jesus Johnny, isn't that what is wrong here?

They are Irish btw, we know that. Their status is Ethnic Minority.

Rhineshark

Of course he did. That was what he was hoping for with his "pity me, I might pull out!" ploy.

God, I don't know how anyone is falling for Johnson Lite. Say something contentious and people talking and then play the poor victim of political correctness to the point of pulling out, and them stay in, like the prima donna having a tantrum and being "reluctantly" convinced to stay. Even if you agree with him, the man is an eejit the rest of the time. Can we get a >2% hit rate on our President being coherent please?

"That’s a load of nonsense. They are not from Romany or whatever." - Peter Casey, ethnicity expert.

McMurphy

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

The full article is here - calls Varadkar "a member of an ethnic community himself" and "Indian", looks innocuous enough in print, just a question of whether Varadkar would describe himself in such a manner:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/presidential-election-2018/shut-your-trap-casey-tells-indian-leo-varadkar-for-trying-to-impact-poll-37439628.html

I don't think Leo would be averse to having his Indian heritage discussed at all.

link

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Even if he is proven wrong, he will stick to it? Jesus Johnny, isn't that what is wrong here?

They are Irish btw, we know that. Their status is Ethnic Minority.

I would guess that if a similar study was carried out on say, Aran Islanders, that they would gain ethnic status as well.

The actual study said they were Irish and unrelated to other nomadic cultures such as Roma gypsy.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I would guess that if a similar study was carried out on say, Aran Islanders, that they would gain ethnic status as well.

The actual study said they were Irish and unrelated to other nomadic cultures such as Roma gypsy.

It would probably depend on a DNA study carried out and analysed by people more expert than me to decide the Aran Islanders ethnicity.

McMurphy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Even if he is proven wrong, he will stick to it? Jesus Johnny, isn't that what is wrong here?

They are Irish btw, we know that. Their status is Ethnic Minority.

Proven wrong about what?

It's his opinion that granting a section of the community as an ethnic minority is a nonsense.

How can anyone prove his opinion to be a wrong one exactly?

I have an opinion that monarchies and royal families are a load of nonsense, and that we are all equals as humans.

Is my opinion wrong?

People can hold different opinions on different subjects Francie, I'm with Casey on his.

FrancieBrady

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Proven wrong about what?

It's his opinion that granting a section of the community as an ethnic minority is a nonsense.

How can anyone prove his opinion to be a wrong one exactly?

I have an opinion that monarchies and royal families are a load of nonsense, and that we are all equals as humans.

Is my opinion wrong?

People can hold different opinions on different subjects Francie, I'm with Casey on his.

So if a public rep's/politician's opinion is proven to be wrong or to be based on an erroneous understanding they are ok to stick to that opinion regardless?

McMurphy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So if a public rep's/politician's opinion is proven to be wrong or to be based on an erroneous understanding they are ok to stick to that opinion regardless?

How can you prove it wrong?

Casey reckons giving them special status is BS, and they're first and foremost Irish citizens.

How can anyone anywhere prove that his opinion is wrong

Tell me how

Johnny Dogs wrote:

How can anyone anywhere prove that his opinion is wrong

Stop being pedantic. It's obvious what they mean is they disagree with him.

FrancieBrady

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

How can you prove it wrong?

Casey reckons giving them special status is BS, and they're first and foremost Irish citizens.

How can anyone anywhere prove that his opinion is wrong

It is wrong to have the opinion that them having Ethnic Minority status makes them unequal to us or not Irish. They are Irish, nobody championing this legislation is saying any different.
The status is not intended and doesn't give them any more entitlements or rights. It is symbolic.

He is wrong to criticise it on the grounds that he did. Very simple.

hotmail.com

VonZan wrote:

I think they will. I don't think he'll get near winning but I think he will probably bring some people out to vote unlike the other candidates. Some parts of Ireland have been badly targeted by traveller gangs and very little is done about it. CAB are nowhere to be seen to stop the fleet of AMGs bought with cash and massive houses been built on stolen and illegal money.

VonZan wrote:

There is the issue of stigmatising all travellers with these issues but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't talk about them. It also doesn't help that the media give such a huge platform to Pavee Point who just damage the image of travellers in Ireland IMO.

There is a disproportionate amount of Travellers in prison compared to the settled community, so the idea that the cops aren't arrested and dealing with Travellers is just nonsense as usual.

How anyone can get fussed about Travellers beggars belief tbh. People seem to be angry about it.

McMurphy

Tell me how wrote: »

Stop being pedantic. It's obvious what they mean is they disagree with him.

I'm not being pedalntic, I'm replying to the posts as they're written, and so what if they disagree with him?

Francie is quite entitled to do so, just as many of us are entitled to agree with him, and casey is entitled to hold the opinion.

Never thought I'd see the day when boards descended into so much horse manure over a man calling on everyone to be treated as equals, and giving his opinion that granting special status to fellow Irish people was nonsense.

I've said it before, that's inclusiveness, not racism or bigotry.

MDH not getting the free ride coronation he was expecting seems to have rattled a lot of cages around here.

Don't be surprised if a few more skeletons in his cupboard are exposed this week.

hotmail.com

I think Casey's comments and attacks will ensure a higher turnout for Higgins. I thought turnout wouldn't get to 50% but I see the turnout going above that figure now.

FrancieBrady

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Never thought I'd see the day when boards descended into so much horse manure over a man calling on everyone to be treated as equals, and giving his opinion that granting special status to fellow Irish people was nonsense.

.

Johnny, his 'opinion' is not based on fact. Simple as that.

Nobody is being treated 'unequally' by this Status. It is a symbolic gesture and intended to encourage inclusiveness and parity of esteem.
I would have thought a Catholic from Derry apparently involved in the GFA would be acutely aware of this and even more acutely aware of it's importance to marginalised communities.
While you see this as 'craic' I see any encouragement of it as dangerous.

An Ciarraioch

Tell me how wrote: »

Is there any chance Casey is doing this to slam dunk a Dail run?

Would be very surprised if he was interested in such a role, but maybe he truly wants to work to make the country better

He certainly couldn't do anything about either of the issues he has raised as President, at any rate.

Eric Cartman

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

He certainly couldn't do anything about either of the issues he has raised as President, at any rate.

but luckily the role isn't very useful legislatively here, so electing a protest candidate like Casey won't change anything, but theres no risk of it changing anything badly.

worth voting for him even if MDH walks it just to let this and future governments know that people in Ireland do care about those issues.

Adamcp898

It's Mumbai, not Bombay.

Perhaps he should have consulted 'Indian' Leo

Tell me how

Eric Cartman wrote:

worth voting for him even if MDH walks it just to let this and future governments know that people in Ireland do care about those issues.

No it isn't. Vote for the best person for the office being filled.

Many voted for Trump/Brexit of give a warning. I'm of the opinion both are bad for the countries involved.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It would probably depend on a DNA study carried out and analysed by people more expert than me to decide the Aran Islanders ethnicity.

The point I am making is that since such a low bar was set for ethnicity, Aran Islanders would also qualify, and possibly other groups in Ireland.

That devalues the status of ethnicity.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

The point I am making is that since such a low bar was set for ethnicity, Aran Islanders would also qualify, and possibly other groups in Ireland.

That devalues the status of ethnicity.

They are quite entitled to try. This is a democracy.

FrancieBrady

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

He certainly couldn't do anything about either of the issues he has raised as President, at any rate.

If he ran for the Dáil what party would have him?

He struck me as a conservative FG style candidate but he has probably burned his bridges there with Leo.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They are quite entitled to try. This is a democracy.

That doesn't make the test that was used for ethnicity valid.

If, as I believe, the bar was set too low in the test for ethnicity, the question as to whether the Travelling Community deserve ethnic status is still an open one.

Hurrache

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Leo's interference looks to be giving a protest vote plenty of momentum.

You guys can really stretch.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

That doesn't make the test that was used for ethnicity valid.

If, as I believe, the bar was set too low in the test for ethnicity, the question as to whether the Travelling Community deserve ethnic status is still an open one.

That's fine. You can get on to your TD and have the data examined again and have it rescinded.
As it is a symbolic gesture to foster inclusiveness and parity of esteem I am fine with it, personally. I don't see it as a threat to my equality.

Rhineshark

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

How can you prove it wrong?

Casey reckons giving them special status is BS, and they're first and foremost Irish citizens.

How can anyone anywhere prove that his opinion is wrong

"That’s a load of nonsense. They are not from Romany or whatever."

By quoting him.

"An ethnic group or an ethnicity, is a category of people who identify with each other based on similarities such as common ancestry, language, history, society, culture or nation. Ethnicity is usually an inherited status based on the society in which one lives." (Definition of ethnicity as per wiki, in case anyone was thinking that sounded far too coherent for Casey).

Note "or nation" there, not "based on nation". Being Irish is irrelevent. They are Irish although DNA evidence suggests a divergence, most likely a group becoming seperate from the rest of the population and remaining genetically distinct from that population. Over time that has resulted in a distinct genetic profile, *an* Irish genetic profile, but distinct within Ireland.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ajpa.22191

So there's a genetic argument.

History, society and culture - little is known, but we certainly do know that they have been travelling for centuries - and before the Famine, although it's be hard to rule out nobody joining them in that period.

Language - interesting one. There's Shelta and/or Cant. Cant looks like an English/Irish cryptolect with some Shelta words thrown in to me, but Shelta appears much more it's own thing. Derived from Irish, but appears to be based on late medieval Irish, according to 1900s scholars (there was a bit of interest in it at the time as an essentially undocumented native language).

Given the definition above, and while there is a lot not known about Traveller history, it supports the decision to recognise them as a distinct cultural group. You cannot rule "they can't be a distinct ethnicity because they're Irish" without eliminating Native Americans, Sami, Australian Aborigines and the concept of ethnicity.

Peter Casey is wrong. He is entitled to his own opinions but not his own facts.

(I caveat above with the reminder that little is known for certain, but what is known does indicate they are Irish, but not the same genetic population as settled Irish.)

gmisk

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If he ran for the Dáil what party would have him?

He struck me as a conservative FG style candidate but he has probably burned his bridges there with Leo.

Renua? They would be delighted to get 2% in a poll as well