So Michael D IS running again!

FrancieBrady

gmisk wrote: »

Renua? They would be delighted to get 2% in a poll as well

Maybe FF as he seems quite aligned to the SDLP from his Twitter.

blanch152

Rhineshark wrote: »

"That’s a load of nonsense. They are not from Romany or whatever."

By quoting him.

"An ethnic group or an ethnicity, is a category of people who identify with each other based on similarities such as common ancestry, language, history, society, culture or nation. Ethnicity is usually an inherited status based on the society in which one lives." (Definition of ethnicity as per wiki, in case anyone was thinking that sounded far too coherent for Casey).

Note "or nation" there, not "based on nation". Being Irish is irrelevent. They are Irish although DNA evidence suggests a divergence, most likely a group becoming seperate from the rest of the population and remaining genetically distinct from that population. Over time that has resulted in a distinct genetic profile, *an* Irish genetic profile, but distinct within Ireland.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ajpa.22191

So there's a genetic argument.

History, society and culture - little is known, but we certainly do know that they have been travelling for centuries - and before the Famine, although it's be hard to rule out nobody joining them in that period.

Language - interesting one. There's Shelta and/or Cant. Cant looks like an English/Irish cryptolect with some Shelta words thrown in to me, but Shelta appears much more it's own thing. Derived from Irish, but appears to be based on late medieval Irish, according to 1900s scholars (there was a bit of interest in it at the time as an essentially undocumented native language).

Given the definition above, and while there is a lot not known about Traveller history, it supports the decision to recognise them as a distinct cultural group. You cannot rule "they can't be a distinct ethnicity because they're Irish" without eliminating Native Americans, Sami, Australian Aborigines and the concept of ethnicity.

Peter Casey is wrong. He is entitled to his own opinions but not his own facts.

(I caveat above with the reminder that little is known for certain, but what is known does indicate they are Irish, but not the same genetic population as settled Irish.)

Problem is your tests would also allow ethnicity for Aran Islanders, south Kerry, Antrim unionists and the Dubs.

Are travellers as distinct from Irish people as some of those?

Eric Cartman

Tell me how wrote: »

No it isn't. Vote for the best person for the office being filled.

Many voted for Trump/Brexit of give a warning. I'm of the opinion both are bad for the countries involved.

Well considering MDH is not the best candidate, theres some issues with a house being sold with a paid of mortgage in IBRC and he praised castro , were left with a shinner and 3 dragons, duffy is the worst of the lot.

I would be a gallagher supporter but now with caseys latest bout if saying things I like and considering gallagher agreed woth a direct provision amnesty, I may vote casey

Brae100

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If he ran for the Dáil what party would have him?

He struck me as a conservative FG style candidate but he has probably burned his bridges there with Leo.

Francie, I have only arrived to this debate lately and have being doing a bit of catching up. But in all the the threads about the topic - you are all over them with pro Traveller rhetoric. Would it be conspiracy theory territory to suspect that you may perhaps derive some of your salary to put forward some of this PR? If the answer is yes, who is paying your salary? It's not Travellers.

Rhineshark

blanch152 wrote: »

Problem is your tests would also allow ethnicity for Aran Islanders, south Kerry, Antrim unionists and the Dubs.

Are travellers as distinct from Irish people as some of those?

What, DNA-testing?

They are not "my tests", I'm not a DNA analyst, geneticist or researcher. But applying the standard against which genetic differences in and between populations are measured, the Travellers appear to be distinct, descended but seperate from a diverging point with the rest of the population.


The Unionists descended from the Plantations absolutely fit the definition, and are.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Scots_people


Aran Islanders seem highly likely to meet the same isolated population basis that can lead to a distinct group. The only real difference is that it's a more traditional region-based isolation, a defined territory. However, there's then the culture, history etc parts of it. Which, given their experience has been fairly dissimilar to "mainland" Ireland, even the coast, and various other seperate traits, such as the continuation of Irish and the longer survival of traditions that have faded out of mainland Irish society, may qualify. From a friend who grew up on one, there's a strong sense of islanders and mainlanders and its difficult to settle in without family roots on the island.

Ultimately, it is similar to nationality as a question of identity, and to some extent it has to be sought or chosen by a large enough group. Nationality is based in identifying with a territory, ethnicity in ancestry and tradition/culture, with enough people. So if the Aran Islanders recognised themselves as and wanted others to recognise them as an ethnic group, there is probably a legit argument for it.


Dubs and South Kerry I'm not convinced by, where are you coming from with those? Dublin, being the capital, has always had a regular flow of people, which should have made insularism or partitioning a genetic pool difficult.

Regarding differences, I would assume less than Ulster Scots, similar to Aran Islanders but that's just a guess.

I think people are putting too much importance into this tbh. It is what it is, we're all covered by nationality.

And crime in the Traveller communities is easier to deal with when there is any trust at all. Unsurprisingly, rabble rousing for attention on the basis of attacking their identity (settled or not) and slandering the whole lot doesn't help with either trust or dealing with criminal activity. Especially for such a blatant, cynical political boost by a guy that thinks Romany is a country. It was cheap as hell.

FrancieBrady

Brae100 wrote: »

Francie, I have only arrived to this debate lately and have being doing a bit of catching up. But in all the the threads about the topic - you are all over them with pro Traveller rhetoric. Would it be conspiracy theory territory to suspect that you may perhaps derive some of your salary to put forward some of this PR? If the answer is yes, who is paying your salary? It's not Travellers.

Not sure how many salaries I'm drawing at this stage.
Anyway, not so much pro-traveller as anti-bigotry, predudice and bias actually.
Welcome to the threads, buckle up it could be a long week.

Beechwoodspark

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Well considering MDH is not the best candidate, theres some issues with a house being sold with a paid of mortgage in IBRC and he praised castro , were left with a shinner and 3 dragons, duffy is the worst of the lot.

I would be a gallagher supporter but now with caseys latest bout if saying things I like and considering gallagher agreed woth a direct provision amnesty, I may vote casey

Gallagher has run a very ineffectual campaign so far. Casey has left him way behind

Edward M

Joan Freeman trying to crush any thoughts of a link with the iona institute today, probably won't do much for her campaign anyway, but I'm sure there could be a rowback of such criticism.
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/presidential-election-2018/pride-joan-freemans-daughter-comes-out-to-try-to-silence-iona-links-37443768.html

VinLieger

Edward M wrote: »

Joan Freeman trying to crush any thoughts of a link with the iona institute today, probably won't do much for her campaign anyway, but I'm sure there could be a rowback of such criticism.
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/presidential-election-2018/pride-joan-freemans-daughter-comes-out-to-try-to-silence-iona-links-37443768.html

Meh too little too late. Anyway it was her easily disprovable lies claiming she didn't have any knowledge about Iona just prior to the 8th referendum that I had a problem with.

friendlyfun

Sam Russell wrote: »

He said he would only go one term, but that was not central to his campaign but was incidental to it.

He should be allowed to alter his intentions - maybe he has been inundated with requests to go a second term.

He had an overwhelming vote when he was elected and will get another overwhelming mandate to retain his office.

The wannabe candidates are trying to grandstand to raise the non-existent profiles in the hope of getting a nomination.

So what we if said he lied only going for one term? It's hardly a big scandal is it? It's hardly worth squabbling about. Don't Irish presidents usually go for two terms anyway?

Honestly don't think any of the other candidates could have really do the office justice. That's why I am voting Michael D Higgins.

blackwhite

Casey was on Newstalk around 8.15 this morning.

Bumbling and confusing his own points, almost incoherent at points - reminded me of George W Bush when put under pressure TBH.

Zubeneschamali

VinLieger wrote: »

Meh too little too late. Anyway it was her easily disprovable lies claiming she didn't have any knowledge about Iona just prior to the 8th referendum that I had a problem with.

I now believe that she has no Iona links, but she handles it badly. She was clearly aware that Iona are toxic and was trying too hard to distance herself.

Perhaps the way in that linked Indo article she says she regrets being aggressive in the debate... she just isn't ready for a campaign.

DavyD_83

So, should the royals, and aristocracy in the UK be classed as an ethnic minority?
In both cases are we really just using 'Ethnic Minority' as a euphemism for "inbred"?

Zubeneschamali

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Gallagher has run a very ineffectual campaign so far. Casey has left him way behind

I knew nothing of Casey at the start, but his campaign has managed to get me to dislike him more than I dislike Gallagher, some achievement in such a short time.

So Gallagher is now #5 on my ballot, and just Casey left off.

Hurrache

I think this is the third time Casey's team posted this bizarre tweet, it was posted twice already before been removed I believe, it's back again.

He dared attack the dogs, the dog racist bastard!



https://twitter.com/CaseyPeterJ/status/1054271429401890816

Pussyhands

I'm voting for Casey based on his traveller comments. Would have voted Miggledy number 1 if there was a contest but as he has it sewn up I'm giving it to Casey.

VinLieger

Pussyhands wrote: »

I'm voting for Casey based on his traveller comments. Would have voted Miggledy number 1 if there was a contest but as he has it sewn up I'm giving it to Casey.

You understand we have a preference based voting system?


You can vote for both of them

Hurrache

Hurrache wrote: »

I think this is the third time Casey's team posted this bizarre tweet, it was posted twice already before been removed I believe, it's back again.

He dared attack the dogs!

https://twitter.com/CaseyPeterJ/status/1054271429401890816

Jesus, what a ridiculous tweet & the guy speaking in an American accent?
Attacking a man because of the dogs he owns......well one dog, because one died.

VinLieger

Hurrache wrote: »

I think this is the third time Casey's team posted this bizarre tweet, it was posted twice already before been removed I believe, it's back again.

He dared attack the dogs, the dog racist bastard!

https://twitter.com/CaseyPeterJ/status/1054271429401890816

This americanised negative garbage really pisses me off, the suprerior tone of the narrator is just so infuriating as he makes his oh so witty punchline "its not only the dogs getting fleeced". Also why the fvck is he using an American voice over?

Cork Boy 53

friendlyfun wrote: »

So what we if said he lied only going for one term? It's hardly a big scandal is it? It's hardly worth squabbling about. Don't Irish presidents usually go for two terms anyway?

Honestly don't think any of the other candidates could have really do the office justice. That's why I am voting Michael D Higgins.

Of the eight Presidents before Michael D, only four went for or completed two terms in office, so no it`s not usually the case.

FrancieBrady

VinLieger wrote: »

This americanised negative garbage really pisses me off, the suprerior tone of the narrator is just so infuriating as he makes his oh so witty punchline "its not only the dogs getting fleeced". Also why the fvck is he using an American voice over?

What does the tweet with the film of MDH and the countdown from 100% mean?

Eric Cartman

bubblypop wrote: »

Jesus, what a ridiculous tweet & the guy speaking in an American accent?
Attacking a man because of the dogs he owns......well one dog, because one died.

You buy those videos made up and narrated off fiverr for 60-100 dollars, almost all the voiceover guys are US on it

For Forks Sake

VinLieger wrote: »

This americanised negative garbage really pisses me off, the suprerior tone of the narrator is just so infuriating as he makes his oh so witty punchline "its not only the dogs getting fleeced". Also why the fvck is he using an American voice over?

I think I saw somewhere on twitter that it's an agency based in Boston are creating the attack ads for him.

VinLieger

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What does the tweet with the film of MDH and the countdown from 100% mean?

Its a stupid fallacious idea that his public appearances have reduced by 43% so by the end of his next term its trying to claim he will be not appearing in public at all.


Its even stupider because they count down from 100 to get to 43%.... even thought thats what they are claiming he has reduced his appearances by not that hes doing only 43% of what he was. But then they continue going to zero again reversing the logic they are using about percentages.....

VinLieger

For Forks Sake wrote: »

I think I saw somewhere on twitter that it's an agency based in Boston are creating the attack ads for him.

Well theres an attack right there the other candidates should be using, he can't even employ Irish people to do his dirty work for him?


Kinda reinforces the idea that he is a bit of a blow in considering how many years he's spent abroad. Id be very curious to know his tax situation too.

Tell me how

Eric Cartman wrote:

You buy those videos made up and narrated off fiverr for 60-100 dollars, almost all the voiceover guys are US on it

A 5 year old would be embarrassed to use that in a conversation about being the president.

It's nearly like he fears he might have encouraged too many to vote for him.

Zubeneschamali

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Of the eight Presidents before Michael D, only four went for or completed two terms in office, so no it`s not usually the case.

Another way to spin the same history: only one President who completed their first term in office did not go on to a second, vs. four who did start a second.

Douglas Hyde was 85, in a wheelchair and ill at he end of his single term. He did not even leave the Park, he lived in a house on the grounds and died there 4 years later.

Pussyhands

VinLieger wrote: »

You understand we have a preference based voting system?


You can vote for both of them

That doesn't count for the total % of support though? For example the polls don't show transferred votes.

Zubeneschamali

Pussyhands wrote: »

That doesn't count for the total % of support though? For example the polls don't show transferred votes.

There aren't going to be any transferred votes.

Pussyhands

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

There aren't going to be any transferred votes.

So how do I vote for both?