Changes in the GAA - super thread

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119225851#Comment_119225851

Seems strange to not have big GAA football and hurling games to watch in August.

In that context I wonder is there a new TV contract either in place or on the way for club coverage.

TG4 have been covering club games for years but mainly the provincial club championships in autumn, and more recently RTE have started covering county club games.

There will be a demand to watch some sort of GAA on TV from August onwards, so it will have to be meet.

grbear

On this week's Examiner podcast Tony Leen suggested that the GAA copy soccer and give the ref a can of foam to mark where a free is to be taken. Hadn't thought about it much myself previously but it seemed entirely reasonable.

Coillte_Bhoy

Re next years football cship Group Stages, has it been decided how the group will be formed? I think the prov champions will all be seeded but how ill the other places be decided? I presume the next top 4 in the league will be 2nd seeds but is it predetermined what group they will go into, ie 1st into Group1, 2nd into Group 2 etc or will there be a draw? Think a draw would be much better, would generate great interest

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262172#Comment_119262172

I think there would have to be a draw for the teams going in via their league placing. They couldn't just say 'best League Team goes in with Munster Champions etc'.

At the time they said it'll be -

No 1 seeds = 4 provincial champions. I guess these can be assigned to a group.

No 2 seeds = 4 provincial beaten finalists. Logically these should go into different groups than the 1 seeds.

No 3 seeds = next 4 teams via league position.

No 4 seeds = next 4 teams via league position *.

• There is also a place reserved for Tailteann Cup winners if they haven't qualified via any of the above methods. Presumably there's also a place reserved for All-Ireland Champions in the unlikely event they don't otherwise qualify (though it's plausible in the case of Div2 Derry in a tough Ulster Championship). So it could be as few as 6 teams via league position.

I doubt they've put much thought into whether they want to avoid a group ending up as 3 teams from the same province etc.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259219#Comment_119259219

The amount of extra ground people steal is ridiculous, I can remember some blatant ones this year.

The linesmen have two jobs and they can't do neither right.

Then in football you have the issue with people kicking it from their hands, you could stutter 10 steps forward and it won't be turned over.

Be just as easy to make the football frees ground only again to cut that out, or else like AFL where the opposition can stand on the mark and the taker retreats far enough behind it to clear him.

Coillte_Bhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262596#Comment_119262596

Only top 6 league positions? Ah now would take a series of miracle results for that to happen and div 3 and 4 teams contesting the provincial finals. Personally id prefer the prov champions to be seeded then next 4 in league etc. Dont think we need to reward prov runners up

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263187#Comment_119263187

I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't saying that only the Top 6 in the league might qualify, I was saying that it could just be 6 counties that qualify via their league position.

8 are coming from provincial finals for definite, so therefore a max of 8 will qualify via the league. But it may be as few as 7 or 6. But clearly finishing 11th or 12th in the league is almost certain to be good enough. Finishing 13th/14th (i.e. 5th/6th in Div 2) will be where it gets a bit marginal, and you'll be hoping for no Div3 teams to get to provincial finals.

Fr Tod Umptious

Here is what the new system groups might look like if it came in this year.

Group A

Dublin

Limerick

Mayo - 2nd Div 1

Clare - 5th Div 2

Group B

Galway

Donegal

Tyrone - 5th Div 1

Louth - 1st Div 3

Group C

Kerry

Kildare

Monaghan - 6th Div 1

Meath - 4th Div 2

Group D

Derry

Roscommon

Armagh- 3rd Div 1

Cork - 6th Div 2

ArmaniJeanss

Thanks, interesting.

So Louth were the final NFL qualifier with their 15th place finish in the league. They'd have missed out if there was a 2021 Tailteann Cup winner claiming a place.

Cork would then have been in the last qualification place. They'd have got through as it turns out, but they would have had to sit through the following provincial semi-finals a) Roscommon v Sligo hoping Sligo didn't win, b) Westmeath v Kildare hoping Westmeath didn't win , c) Cavan v Donegal hoping Cavan didn't win.

Any of those results go against Cork and they would be out. Kinda adds a new dynamic to it.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119264200#Comment_119264200

Good point.

It could make for very interesting provincial semifinals.

I'm looking forward to it, just like I looked forward to the Super 8, I think credit should be given for making the changes and also not being afraid to admit they don't work sometimes, as on the case with the Super 8.

Boom__Boom

Rules for Maguire for next year - taken from the rule book.

All-Ireland Round 1 (Group Stage)

 Counties Participating

 The following 16 Counties shall be eligible to participate in the All-Ireland Championship Round 1 (Group Stage).

 (a) The 4 Provincial Champions (1st seeds)

 (b) The 4 Provincial Runners-Up (2nd seeds)

 (c) The next 4 highest-ranked teams at the conclusion of the National League (3rd seeds)

 (d) The next 4 highest-ranked teams at the conclusion of the National League (4th seeds)

 Exception to (d): The previous year’s Tier 2 Championship Winners if not already qualified as one of the teams in (a) to (d) above, shall be eligible instead of the team in (d) with the lowest National League ranking at the conclusion of that year’s National League.  Note: The ranking of teams in the National League referred to above shall be on the basis of the outcomes of the National League, including those of Promotion and Relegation, of the Competition Year. For the avoidance of doubt, a league final winner will be considered a higher seed than the team they defeated in the final.

Group Composition and order of games

 • The All-Ireland Group Stage shall be on a League basis of four Groups of four teams (Groups A, B, C and D), with each team in a Group playing the other

teams in their Group once. Teams will be awarded two points for a win and one point for a draw

 • The composition of each group shall be decided by means of a draw.

 • Each Group shall consist of one team from each of the seeded classifications in (a) to (d) above. Teams who have already met in that year’s provincial final cannot be drawn to the same group

 • Each team shall play one Home game, one Away game and one game at a neutral venue.

 • The order of games shall be at the discretion of the Central Competitions Control Committee, subject to the Provincial Champions in each group having their first game at Home.

(iii) All-Ireland Preliminary Quarter-Finals

 The four second-placed teams from Round 1 shall be drawn to play at home against the four third-placed teams, subject in the first instance to the avoidance of repeat Provincial Final pairings and where possible repeat pairings from Round 1.

(iv) All-Ireland Quarter-Finals

The four first-placed teams from Round 1 shall be drawn to play against the four Preliminary Quarter-Finals winners, subject in the first instance to the avoidance of repeat Provincial Final pairings and where possible repeat pairings from Round 1.

(v) All-Ireland Semi-Finals

The four quarter-final winners shall play against each other in the Semi-Final based on a draw, subject to the avoidance of repeat pairings from the championship, where possible.

MacDanger

I presume this point means that the two winning teams from the R1 will be paired together in R2 (to avoid dead rubbers in R3):

The order of games shall be at the discretion of the Central Competitions Control Committee, subject to the Provincial Champions in each group having their first game at Home.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119265994#Comment_119265994

They should fix the anomaly in 'exception to (d)' that Tailteann Cup winners are guaranteed a place but there's no mention of All-Ireland winners.

e.g, its not impossible that Derry win the AI this year, have a poor campaign in Div 2 next year finishing 7th or 8th, then get gubbed by Tyrone/Donegal in an early round in Ulster. According to the above rules that would eliminate them.

I reckon its something that was just an oversight that no-one thought of, but far easier to fix now before it becomes an actual issue some year. Though I suppose it's possible they considered it and decided 'tough luck'.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266340#Comment_119266340

They'd just change the rules and find a way for Derry to be in the All Ireland.

Back in 2005 Liverpool won the Champions League but failed to qualify for the following years edition.

They allowed Liverpool in at the lowest level possible and changed the rule that the champions get automatic entry the following years.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266357#Comment_119266357

It was an easier fix then though for UEFA, they were just expanding the first phase from 67 teams to 68 or whatever - it didn't really matter as no-one was getting eliminated to give Liverpool a place.

You couldn't expand the groups from 16 to 17, so someone would have to be removed in order to give Derry a place. Potentially trouble when it's not clearly defined in the rules.

PTH2009

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119265994#Comment_119265994

Jesus all these extra games for the football while the hurling gets nothing extra

kksaints

One change I'd like to see if the split season is to continue is that the Camoige and Ladies Football season run the opposite way to the men's sport so that when it's intercounty in the men's it's club in the women and vice versa. It would allow for more attention for the women's intercounty sports plus it would ease the pressure on pitches for the club season rather than having them out of use for a chunk of the year and then overuse for the reminder of the year.

Pussyhands

Thinking of next years championship, seems it's going to be tough on Ulster teams.

For example, say Donegal this year. They played Armagh, Cavan and then Derry in the final. That's 3 tough games.

They then go in as 2nd seeds, meaning they'd be expected to finish 2nd. So they have 3 games in the group, one v a provincial winner. They then need to play a 3rd place team from another group for a place in the quarters.

So at this point, they've already played 7 championship games. Then if they want to win the AI they need to win another 3 games.

The schedule will have to be changed next year. Donegal started their provincial campaign on the 24th April, the AI final this year is 24th July, so two months.

the kelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263138#Comment_119263138

Yet O Shea actually moved his ball back for the winning free against Dublin.

apparently the cut of the grass makes a huge difference in Croke park according to Oisin Mc Conville with one cut having the grass going away from you which means on the other cut the ball sits up a bit more.

The foam marker line is a good idea to be fair though

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269734#Comment_119269734

You dont exactly need many more games for hurling and where would you add them considering the group stage in the 2 provinces and then its knockout. Not much point adding too many more

jacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348257#Comment_119348257

Considering that there once was a time when you played one game, and lost, that was it!

An Ciarraioch

We already know that the highest Westmeath can finish next year is as D3 champions (15th), so they would require A-C to be the top 12 counties (eminently possible) to automatically finish in D, otherwise one of the lower D2/upper D3 counties misses out.

Pussyhands

Attacking mark needs to go

An Ciarraioch

Last night's Kerry County Board meeting revealed that the Munster Council has agreed to automatically promote the Kerry hurlers into the provincial championship, should they win the Joe McDonagh, and will submit a motion to Congress to permit this.

Fr Tod Umptious

Some interesting outcomes from yesterday's provincial draws that will filter into the new system.

One of Sligo, Letrim or London is going to the Sam McGuire championship as Connacht finalists thus pushing a Div 2 team into the TC.

One of Limerick, Clare or Cork are getting to the Munster final.

Since Limerick and Cork maybe Div 2 relegation material if they get relegated and make the Munster final the promoted team from Div 3 may not get to the Sam McGuire championship.

Ulster and Leinster are too big to try and predict scenarios at this stage.

Coillte_Bhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119750820#Comment_119750820

Utterly farcical, can't see how this helps Sligo or Leitrim, a hiding in the Connacht Final followed by at least one and probably three hidings in the AI Series

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119765905#Comment_119765905

But where do you drawn the line between "they'll get a hiding, they need games against better opposition to improve, and they deserve to be there "?

You can't I don't think.

Would the winner or second from Div 3 fare any better in the Sam McGuire group stages?

PTH2009

https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/325723

Jesus sum jolly outing for the new york players.

Who's paying for that bill for that ??, hotels, flights etc. Players US based also need to be compensated for missing work

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875774#Comment_119875774

A lot of very rich Irish people in New York are very happy to bankroll New York GAA

Those inter-county players who fly over to play one game on a random Sunday at Gaelic Park don't come cheap.

callaway92

The more ‘competitive’ matches the teams at that level will get at pre-season, the better. I think it does no harm for any of the teams involved. Was that the Connacht League matches in 2022 and they were good, albeit on a tiny pitch (65m is half-way-line)