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Changes in the GAA - super thread
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Farawayhome wrote: »Then what report are you talking about and what's the separate development grant?
The separate grant is the provincial grant, which every county in that province gets a slice of. Dublin have, as far as I can recall, elected not to take their slice of the Leinster grant for quite a while now. I'll see if I can dig that up, but can't promise anything as I'm up to my eyeballs with work/life.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »The separate grant is the provincial grant, which every county in that province gets a slice of. Dublin have, as far as I can recall, elected not to take their slice of the Leinster grant for quite a while now. I'll see if I can dig that up, but can't promise anything as I'm up to my eyeballs with work/life.
Dublin are in Leinster so I'm sure they get their cut. When you have time you can search to see if you can find the level of the provincial coaching grant and has it increased from a very small number to bigger just in the last few years.
Why the Dublin official accounts are so helpful is because it shows spending in it's totality. The development fund is spent on coaches mostly. It's the other expenses that are showing what's going into the elite development squads.0 -
The CPA remind me of Apu’s line in the simpsons when Homer is mangling his merchandise- “ I asked you nicely to fix the fixtures, you leave me no option but to ask you nicely again”
Have absolutely no power.0 -
May have been posted already but I cant be aresd reading through the waffle and nonsense from Farawayhome but this is a relevant Twitter thread from a Carlow hurler
https://twitter.com/Paul_Coady10/status/1139199964301680642?s=190 -
May have been posted already but I cant be aresd reading through the waffle and nonsense from Farawayhome but this is a relevant Twitter thread from a Carlow hurler
https://twitter.com/Paul_Coady10/status/1139199964301680642?s=19
Why did you post that? You stated views that are opposed to everything he said. In fact, what he posted there is basically exactly what I've been saying!
Small counties need financial backing, not tiered championships or any of that nonsense. He noted the variance in funding between Carlow and Dublin, the same gap exists between every other county and Dublin also. Let's look at the facts. Dublin were minnows in hurling, just like Carlow. They improved with huge investment. Could anyone see a team from the Joe McDonagh cup winning a provincial championship? It seems fanciful doean't it? Well this was the level Dublin were at and they went on the win a provincial and a national league!
Why can't that be done in other counties? Why can't the GAA invest properly to improve standards? All they've been doing is giving them scraps.0 -
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Has anyone read this? https://www.herald.ie/sport/gaa/horan-money-doesnt-drive-dubs-38210540.html
Absolute disgraceful comments by the Dublin president. Extremely insulting, first of all to our intelligence and then to the huge amount of volunteers who work tirelessly all across the country. He's claiming that Dublin's success is down to volunteers, every single county have volunteers in their ranks. Do Dublin volunteers work harder than the rest? Are the rest just useless layabouts? Were the volunteers in Dublin a waste of space in the past?
He implies that the millions upon millions of euro is just an aside, not really relevant to Dublin's success. And this success is across the board, not just senior men's football. If the money is so insignificant, when are they going to start paying it back? Why are they still getting huge sums every year? These super volunteers who don't need any funding have transformed Dublin underage teams in hurling and football, transformed Dublin senior teams in hurling and football, they've had the same impact on the Dublin club scene and women's Gaelic games. They have done all this at the same time that Dublin GAA have received massive sums of money but it has nothing to do with those massive sums of money. As I said, an insult to our intelligence.0 -
Based on what Coady is saying it could only be a matter of time before Dublin dominate in hurling as well. It might take another 10 years because the hurling tradition isn't strong in Dublin. But if they win a few more trophies that could change.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0613/1055245-coady-hurling-format-undermining-improving-counties/
They've already sown up senior men's football and possibly the ladies football too as they are going for 3 in a row.
I think time might be on their side for the hurling. Offaly are gone, we know that. Waterford and Clare are inconsistent as are Wexford. Tipp, Cork, Kilkenny and Galway will always be strong and if Dublin get into this group too, time is on their side.0 -
I wish Dublin had its own president, then we could have our own all Dublin championship every year, we could win at hurling that way too, although Kerry would probably still find a way to win our god given minor football championship.0
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The problem is that most people don't care if Carlow are good at hurling. Most people in Carlow don't even care.
You can also substitute in Laois, Antrim, Offaly, etc.0 -
Farawayhome wrote: »Has anyone read this? https://www.herald.ie/sport/gaa/horan-money-doesnt-drive-dubs-38210540.html
Absolute disgraceful comments by the Dublin president. Extremely insulting, first of all to our intelligence and then to the huge amount of volunteers who work tirelessly all across the country. He's claiming that Dublin's success is down to volunteers, every single county have volunteers in their ranks. Do Dublin volunteers work harder than the rest? Are the rest just useless layabouts? Were the volunteers in Dublin a waste of space in the past?
He implies that the millions upon millions of euro is just an aside, not really relevant to Dublin's success. And this success is across the board, not just senior men's football. If the money is so insignificant, when are they going to start paying it back? Why are they still getting huge sums every year? These super volunteers who don't need any funding have transformed Dublin underage teams in hurling and football, transformed Dublin senior teams in hurling and football, they've had the same impact on the Dublin club scene and women's Gaelic games. They have done all this at the same time that Dublin GAA have received massive sums of money but it has nothing to do with those massive sums of money. As I said, an insult to our intelligence.
Yawn.
Bitter resentment is just bitter resentment.
Some of the posts on these threads read like the dreams of a young Kildare boy who thought that beating Dublin flukily in one Leinster final (2000) would herald the dawn of a new era of Kildare dominance (apologies to Ewan McKenna for stealing his material).
The reality is that Dublin have a bigger population than other counties. The only way to counter that is to proceed with amalgamations of smaller counties so that they can compete on a level playing field.
The other reality is that Dublin have got their act together in terms of looking after underage kids. That have recruited thousands of volunteers through the clubs and ensured that every boy and every girl, big or small, short or tall, fat or slim, regardless of race, creed or anything else, will get a game. It truly is a marvellous sight. It is only sad that there are so many begrudgers.0 -
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The other reality is that Dublin have got their act together in terms of looking after underage kids. That have recruited thousands of volunteers through the clubs and ensured that every boy and every girl, big or small, short or tall, fat or slim, regardless of race, creed or anything else, will get a game. It truly is a marvellous sight. It is only sad that there are so many begrudgers.
Indeed, and to point that out is no slur on other counties where same applies. Others do not bother unfortunately and that has nothing to do with finance.
And no aspersion on Carlow, but there are historical and traditional reasons why it has always been a minnow although hopefully that is changing. They are adjoining two of the great hurling counties in Kilkenny and Wexford.
Same applies to other counties that are close to strong GAA counties. Some of it goes back to the fact that GAA was very weak in some counties for political reasons, while others persisted. Basically the same counties that are still strong today, with exception of the Ulster counties which had a much more hostile environment to operate in.
Our pitch is not called Parnell Park for no reason.0 -
Talk political excuses all you want, when one county has hundreds or even dozens of kids to choose from, and another has thousands, there is only going to be one outcome.0
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The reality is that Dublin have a bigger population than other counties. The only way to counter that is to proceed with amalgamations of smaller counties so that they can compete on a level playing field.
The other reality is that Dublin have got their act together in terms of looking after underage kids. That have recruited thousands of volunteers through the clubs and ensured that every boy and every girl, big or small, short or tall, fat or slim, regardless of race, creed or anything else, will get a game. It truly is a marvellous sight. It is only sad that there are so many begrudgers.
You are kind of contradicting yourself in these two paragraphs. One minute you are pointing towards dublins massive population, the next you are aping the presidents bs comments about recruiting these super-volunteers who dont sleep but rather just coach kids 24-7...
The reality is the president is talking nonsense. Dublins volunteers do no more, individually, than most up and down the country. In fact id say there are volunteers in remote places whose workload would dwarf any voluteer in dublin, such are the parameters under which they have to work. It is just a nice handy excuse to get out of addressing the real problem.
As is tiered championships by the way, hence why this president is pushing them so much. If counties have some crap trophy to play for, out of the way, then dublin wont be giving them 30 point hidings, which are bad for the optics. If they were to keep happening then people might start pushing for the, frankly painfully obvious solution of dublin being split up into a number of intercounty teams to take the competition forward.
Begrudgers eh? Begrudge what? Dublin at this stage resemble a spoilt problem child who would rather just ruin the entire sport than accept things being even a small bit fairer for the good of the game itself. What kind of clown would begrudge you that ready-made albatross? The county that ruined the game with their complete lack of sportsmanship? Knock yourself out.
I suppose your response will be about begrudgers or 31v1 or something to that effect. Newsflash man, nobody buys that stuff. Nobody bought that stuff, even back when ye started pushing it. To be still parroting it now is parody territory.0 -
MayoAreMagic wrote: »You are kind of contradicting yourself in these two paragraphs. One minute you are pointing towards dublins massive population, the next you are aping the presidents bs comments about recruiting these super-volunteers who dont sleep but rather just coach kids 24-7...
The reality is the president is talking nonsense. Dublins volunteers do no more, individually, than most up and down the country. In fact id say there are volunteers in remote places whose workload would dwarf any voluteer in dublin, such are the parameters under which they have to work. It is just a nice handy excuse to get out of addressing the real problem.
As is tiered championships by the way, hence why this president is pushing them so much. If counties have some crap trophy to play for, out of the way, then dublin wont be giving them 30 point hidings, which are bad for the optics. If they were to keep happening then people might start pushing for the, frankly painfully obvious solution of dublin being split up into a number of intercounty teams to take the competition forward.
Begrudgers eh? Begrudge what? Dublin at this stage resemble a spoilt problem child who would rather just ruin the entire sport than accept things being even a small bit fairer for the good of the game itself. What kind of clown would begrudge you that ready-made albatross? The county that ruined the game with their complete lack of sportsmanship? Knock yourself out.
I suppose your response will be about begrudgers or 31v1 or something to that effect. Newsflash man, nobody buys that stuff. Nobody bought that stuff, even back when ye started pushing it. To be still parroting it now is parody territory.
More nonsense on this topic.
The reality is that splitting Dublin would make no difference to competitiveness for the smaller counties. For Wicklow, Carlow, Clare, Limerick, Tipperary, Sligo, Antrim, Wexford, Waterford, Leitrim, Longford, and many more, it would still make no difference even if you split Dublin into ten counties. The best way forward is amalgamations to make these counties stronger.
The problem is that the less successful counties in the middle - Mayo being a prime example, Kildare another - are only interested in doing Dublin down so that they can climb up. They are not really interested in increasing the competitiveness of those below them.
Like many Dubs, I would be happy to have a conversation about splitting Dublin, if amalgamations were also on the table and the conversation was about having a truly competitive championship so that for example the dominance of Kerry in Munster was also being addressed. For as long as the perceived motivation for splitting Dublin is coming from bitterness and jealousy from counties such as Mayo, Kerry and Kildare, then Dublin people are well able to see through that motivation.
It is time for a mature conversation about what it takes to get a competitive Championship and not just about splitting Dublin.0 -
More nonsense on this topic.
The reality is that splitting Dublin would make no difference to competitiveness for the smaller counties. For Wicklow, Carlow, Clare, Limerick, Tipperary, Sligo, Antrim, Wexford, Waterford, Leitrim, Longford, and many more, it would still make no difference even if you split Dublin into ten counties. The best way forward is amalgamations to make these counties stronger.
The problem is that the less successful counties in the middle - Mayo being a prime example, Kildare another - are only interested in doing Dublin down so that they can climb up. They are not really interested in increasing the competitiveness of those below them.
Like many Dubs, I would be happy to have a conversation about splitting Dublin, if amalgamations were also on the table and the conversation was about having a truly competitive championship so that for example the dominance of Kerry in Munster was also being addressed. For as long as the perceived motivation for splitting Dublin is coming from bitterness and jealousy from counties such as Mayo, Kerry and Kildare, then Dublin people are well able to see through that motivation.
It is time for a mature conversation about what it takes to get a competitive Championship and not just about splitting Dublin.
That's actually not true at all and im pretty sure you know it isnt. Ive stated numerous times on this very board, often responding to yourself, that the answer is for dublin to be split at least once and the option to be given to certain counties to amalgamate, thus creating a fairer system across the board. Funny, you didnt call that suggestion a mature conversation at that juncture...
Again, im not the slightest bit jealous of dublin. The staggering leg up they required to win something, has done serious damage to their once excellent football legacy, and will lurk in the memory for a long long time. That is starting to dawn on dubs now. It is funny, the want to be seen as a football great drove them down this road, and it is also the thing that has ruined their legacy for the forseeable future. As good as the team is now, you were better off with the nearlymen of the 00s - at least it was honest.0 -
MayoAreMagic wrote: »That's actually not true at all and im pretty sure you know it isnt. Ive stated numerous times on this very board, often responding to yourself, that the answer is for dublin to be split at least once and the option to be given to certain counties to amalgamate, thus creating a fairer system across the board. Funny, you didnt call that suggestion a mature conversation at that juncture...
Again, im not the slightest bit jealous of dublin. The staggering leg up they required to win something, has done serious damage to their once excellent football legacy, and will lurk in the memory for a long long time. That is starting to dawn on dubs now. It is funny, the want to be seen as a football great drove them down this road, and it is also the thing that has ruined their legacy for the forseeable future. As good as the team is now, you were better off with the nearlymen of the 00s - at least it was honest.
Compulsorily split Dublin and options for amalgamation?
Exactly what I am saying about people shying away from the real discussion.
The rest of your post is completely contradictory.
I am still not sure which point of mine you are suggesting is untrue.0 -
Compulsorily split Dublin and options for amalgamation?
Exactly what I am saying about people shying away from the real discussion.
The rest of your post is completely contradictory.
I am still not sure which point of mine you are suggesting is untrue.
Yes an option, due to the fairly obvious assertion that by not amalgamating, they are only affecting themselves. If leitrim wanted to carry on fighting the tide then that is their loss really isnt it? Dublin on the other hand would be enforced because it is having an effect on the entire sport, and we have already seen that they will fight tooth and nail against fairness because turkeys dont vote for christmas.0 -
I want changes in the marketing and promotion of the GAA.
Plus in the future two dedicated GAA channels one for hurling and football.
There are so many matches that only get derisory coverage/worse none at all.Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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Hard to follow so many successful county teams who will be in big games at business end...
You wouldn't know about that MAM,,0 -
More nonsense on this topic.
The reality is that splitting Dublin would make no difference to competitiveness for the smaller counties. For Wicklow, Carlow, Clare, Limerick, Tipperary, Sligo, Antrim, Wexford, Waterford, Leitrim, Longford, and many more, it would still make no difference even if you split Dublin into ten counties. The best way forward is amalgamations to make these counties stronger.
The problem is that the less successful counties in the middle - Mayo being a prime example, Kildare another - are only interested in doing Dublin down so that they can climb up. They are not really interested in increasing the competitiveness of those below them.
Like many Dubs, I would be happy to have a conversation about splitting Dublin, if amalgamations were also on the table and the conversation was about having a truly competitive championship so that for example the dominance of Kerry in Munster was also being addressed. For as long as the perceived motivation for splitting Dublin is coming from bitterness and jealousy from counties such as Mayo, Kerry and Kildare, then Dublin people are well able to see through that motivation.
It is time for a mature conversation about what it takes to get a competitive Championship and not just about splitting Dublin.
I wouldn't favour splitting Dublin.
I would favour scaling back and redistributing player development officers to the rest of Leinster. Dublin have more officers than the rest of Leinster combined in hurling and probably something similar in football. This needs to change.
There's plenty of alternatives to splitting Dublin. I'm sceptical Dublin supporters would welcome these alternatives though. I get the feeling they would oppose any serious proposals that make other counties competitive and Dublin less competitive.
We all know the GAA favour the big counties and that needs to change, not just for Dublin. But Dublin should be the place to start. I'd expect the usual charge of "begrudgery" though when any changes to the current status quo are proposed.0 -
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Two dedicated GAA channels? Funded by who? Coverage of games is grand but expensive. What else to do you want it to cover?gormdubhgorm wrote: »I want changes in the marketing and promotion of the GAA.
Plus in the future two dedicated GAA channels one for hurling and football.
There are so many matches that only get derisory coverage/worse none at all.
Dublin shouldnt be split but the main competition of year needs to have tiers to really help things be better for everyone. Dublin has biggest population by a distance so should have most development officers but yes more could be done in other counties.ToBeFrank123 wrote: »I wouldn't favour splitting Dublin.
I would favour scaling back and redistributing player development officers to the rest of Leinster. Dublin have more officers than the rest of Leinster combined in hurling and probably something similar in football. This needs to change.
There's plenty of alternatives to splitting Dublin. I'm sceptical Dublin supporters would welcome these alternatives though. I get the feeling they would oppose any serious proposals that make other counties competitive and Dublin less competitive.
We all know the GAA favour the big counties and that needs to change, not just for Dublin. But Dublin should be the place to start. I'd expect the usual charge of "begrudgery" though when any changes to the current status quo are proposed.
Amalgamations isnt the answer either. Lots of those counties you named rarely if ever have challenged for sam so really would be far better off playing their own tier of competition which would be competitiveMore nonsense on this topic.
The reality is that splitting Dublin would make no difference to competitiveness for the smaller counties. For Wicklow, Carlow, Clare, Limerick, Tipperary, Sligo, Antrim, Wexford, Waterford, Leitrim, Longford, and many more, it would still make no difference even if you split Dublin into ten counties. The best way forward is amalgamations to make these counties stronger.
The problem is that the less successful counties in the middle - Mayo being a prime example, Kildare another - are only interested in doing Dublin down so that they can climb up. They are not really interested in increasing the competitiveness of those below them.
Like many Dubs, I would be happy to have a conversation about splitting Dublin, if amalgamations were also on the table and the conversation was about having a truly competitive championship so that for example the dominance of Kerry in Munster was also being addressed. For as long as the perceived motivation for splitting Dublin is coming from bitterness and jealousy from counties such as Mayo, Kerry and Kildare, then Dublin people are well able to see through that motivation.
It is time for a mature conversation about what it takes to get a competitive Championship and not just about splitting Dublin.0 -
The Lost Sheep wrote: »Dublin shouldnt be split but the main competition of year needs to have tiers to really help things be better for everyone. Dublin has biggest population by a distance so should have most development officers but yes more could be done in other counties.
So the fact it has the advantage of a bigger population means this should be compounded with more development officers?
When you add advantage to advantage to advantage, don't be surprised when one team ends up miles ahead of the rest. This is not begrudgery, its just pointing out some simple facts and the reason why Dublin will continue to make the competition a bit of a farce that no one takes seriously.
An extra effort needs to be made to bring up other counties. Its unprecedented that Meath, Kildare and the likes are not challenging for Leinster Titles, and no-one can truly say they are. Meanwhile the rest of Leinster falls further and further behind, because the development officers aren't in those counties, they are mostly in Dublin. Its just one area where an effort could be made to redress some advantages.
As it stands, I can tell you who will win Leinster this year, next year and for at least the next 5 years. Who is going to pay to see that "product"?0 -
ToBeFrank123 wrote: »So the fact it has the advantage of a bigger population means this should be compounded with more development officers?
The amount of misunderstanding crammed into one sentence is truly astounding.0 -
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Indeed, and to point that out is no slur on other counties where same applies. Others do not bother unfortunately and that has nothing to do with finance.
And no aspersion on Carlow, but there are historical and traditional reasons why it has always been a minnow although hopefully that is changing. They are adjoining two of the great hurling counties in Kilkenny and Wexford.
Same applies to other counties that are close to strong GAA counties. Some of it goes back to the fact that GAA was very weak in some counties for political reasons, while others persisted. Basically the same counties that are still strong today, with exception of the Ulster counties which had a much more hostile environment to operate in.
Our pitch is not called Parnell Park for no reason.
What is this? Are you pretending that Dublin were always at the top table in hurling? Dublin have always been minnows while competing with their own players. They were still minnows up until the cash injection. And now look? Knocking out Galway, winning National titles, dining at the top table.0 -
There are loads of excuses used when it comes to Dublin footballers. Attempts to somehow claim that money has nothing to do with the unprecedented level of success. One off team, superhuman volunteers, etc etc. What are the attempted excuses when it comes to the Dublin hurlers? How have they gone from whipping boys to knocking out Galway, one of the All Ireland favourites?0
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The Lost Sheep wrote: »Two dedicated GAA channels? Funded by who? Coverage of games is grand but expensive. What else to do you want it to cover?
It could easily be done a collaborative effort between the state/state broadcaster and the GAA.
Isn't it fairly obvious what needs to be covered when looking at the rushed piecemeal coverage on TSG?
More coverage of games from all across the board not just the very top levels.
I honestly believe there is a market for it.Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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The amount of misunderstanding crammed into one sentence is truly astounding.
So Dublin doesn't have more player development officers or receive more funds for player development than the rest of Leinster combined?
As I said earlier this would be an alternative to splitting Dublin, redistributing development officers to other counties to improve their standards. But few in Dublin will go for that.0 -
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gormdubhgorm wrote: »It could easily be done a collaborative effort between the state/state broadcaster and the GAA.
Isn't it fairly obvious what needs to be covered when looking at the rushed piecemeal coverage on TSG?
More coverage of games from all across the board not just the very top levels.
I honestly believe there is a market for it.
Absolutely. You only have to look at the interest there is in the podcasts/articles/twitter snapshots/forumchat like here.
The TV system in place seems almost archaic.0
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