Changes in the GAA - super thread

doc_17

Jaden wrote: »

doc_17 wrote: »

Dublin has about 1.6 million people?

1.35 Million

doc_17 wrote: »

It’s the money and, as important, the home advantage that sets Dublin apart. The players are obviously working hard but then again so would a Cavan footballer who, if they were winning AIs, could command €6000 appearance fees.

If you can name the Player and the appearance, I'll be impressed. If you can tell me how this contributes to all Ireland success, I'd be even more impressed.

doc_17 wrote: »

Take Dublin out of CP except for Leinster final and AI Final. Make Dublin travel to Castlebar, Killarney, Ballybofey for an AI semi. Make them do what everyone else has to do. Then all of this will stop.

Totally good with this idea. But the Democratic processes of the GAA will probably decide otherwise.

That said, I think the last All Ireland Semi to be played outside of Croker was in Cork in 1983...

Limerick in 2014 actually.

How does the money help that player? Incentivises him. Who is it? Ask Tomas O Sé but if he’s saying it then I doubt he’s picking it from the sky. Look at their twitter accounts...mostly advertising.

Jaden

doc_17 wrote: »

Limerick in 2014 actually.

How does the money help that player? Incentivises him. Who is it? Ask Tomas O Sé but if he’s saying it then I doubt he’s picking it from the sky. Look at their twitter accounts...mostly advertising.

I forgot about that one. Too busy still moping about over the Donegal ambush at the time.

ToBeFrank123

By "democratic processes of the GAA", I take it the poster means a gun held to GAA counties head to the effect if they take Dublin out of Croke Park they get less funds? That appears to be the process in Leinster anyways. Yet Dublin's development funds are largely ring fenced and don't appear to depend at all on how many people fill Croke Park in the Leinster championship.

Jaden

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

By "democratic processes of the GAA", I take it the poster means a gun held to GAA counties head to the effect if they take Dublin out of Croke Park they get less funds? That appears to be the process in Leinster anyways. Yet Dublin's development funds are largely ring fenced and don't appear to depend at all on how many people fill Croke Park in the Leinster championship.

Who is holding this metaphorical gun?

doc_17

Leinster Council. Headed up until a year or so ago by John Horan. Take Dublin out of Croke Park and the counties were told they’d get less money.

Then, when they did make them play an odd game outside of CP they played in neutral venues. The whole thing is a joke in Leinster at the minute and a large part of the problem lies with the other counties not having the balls to stand up to the GAA

Jaden

doc_17 wrote: »

Leinster Council. Headed up until a year or so ago by John Horan. Take Dublin out of Croke Park and the counties were told they’d get less money.

Then, when they did make them play an odd game outside of CP they played in neutral venues. The whole thing is a joke in Leinster at the minute and a large part of the problem lies with the other counties not having the balls to stand up to the GAA

Horan was Chairman from 11-14, not last year, but it's a minor point.

So the Leinster council hold a gun to the Leinster council's head, and demand that the Leinster council do as the Leinster council says, as regards where Dublin (and other Leinster counties) play in the LFC. And if they don't, the Leinster council will give members of the Leinster council less money?

Are you sure that's how it works?

doc_17

Jaden wrote: »

doc_17 wrote: »

Leinster Council. Headed up until a year or so ago by John Horan. Take Dublin out of Croke Park and the counties were told they’d get less money.

Then, when they did make them play an odd game outside of CP they played in neutral venues. The whole thing is a joke in Leinster at the minute and a large part of the problem lies with the other counties not having the balls to stand up to the GAA

Horan was Chairman from 11-14, not last year, but it's a minor point.

So the Leinster council hold a gun to the Leinster council's head, and demand that the Leinster council do as the Leinster council says, as regards where Dublin (and other Leinster counties) play in the LFC. And if they don't, the Leinster council will give members of the Leinster council less money?

Are you sure that's how it works?

Who says it works like that? I certainly didn’t. The Leinster counties vote to keep Dublin in Croke Park to generate funding. The Leinster council and the Leinster counties aren’t the same thing.

Fann Linn

doc_17 wrote: »

Who says it works like that? I certainly didn’t. The Leinster counties vote to keep Dublin in Croke Park to generate funding. The Leinster council and the Leinster counties aren’t the same thing.

Absolutely nothing stopping the other 13 Leinster teams/counties from seeking to play their games in their own county grounds depending on the draw, except for.....themselves.

Every county has an equal vote, be it Louth or Dublin or Westmeath.

doc_17

Laois got to play their home game against Dublin in Nolan Park. Then Louth had to play Dublin in Laois! That was the attempt that was made to level the playing field. And those were QFs. SFs should be neutral too.

RoyalCelt

Even Dublin fans now say Dublin should play less in Croker. Only the Leinster final should be in Croker. The super 8 should be one at home, 1 away and the 3rd neutral in a venue between the two competing counties.

Realistically Dublin should only play league final, Leinster final, all Ireland semi and final in Croker. That would be 4 trips a year assuming they are getting to all major finals. It wouldn't completely over saturate the experience and their players wouldn't feel like it's their proper home. It might also encourage the Dublin County board to get their finger out and build a stadium suitable for their needs.

PTH2009

This would be my idea of what to do with the Liam McCarthy structure

Think we need to make this championship more of an All Ireland one than Provincial imo

My idea run off the Munster and Leinster championships in a knockout style (ramdon draw im doing here)
Munster-
Qf- Cork vs Clare (Clare win)
SF- Limerick vs Waterford (LIM)
SF- Clare vs Tipp (Tipp)
F- Limerick vs Tipp (LIM)

Leinster
Qf- Wexford vs Carlow (Wexford win)
Sf- Kilkenny vs Dublin (Kil)
Sf- Wexford vs Galway (Wex)
F- Kilkenny vs Wexford (Wex)

then after that have 2x groups of 5 and each team plays 4 games each

Group 1
Leinster champs
Munster Runners up
one of the Leinster semi finalists
one of the munster semi finalists
Munster losing Quarter finalist

Group 2
Munster champs
Leinster Runners up
One of the Munster semi finalists
One of the Leinster semi finalists
Leinster losing Quarter finalist

No All Ireland Quarter finals
Top 2 in each group go through to the All Ireland Semi finals
1st Grp 1 vs 2nd Grp 2
1st Grp 2 vs 2nd Grp 1

Relagation Playoff- 5th Grp 1 vs 5th Grp 2
Joe Mcdonagh winner Promoted in losers place for the following year

I knw this system would seem a nightmare on the calender but it can be done and ill do it in a 2020 calender

Weekend of
9th/10th May- Munster and Leinster QFS
16th/17th May- Munster and Leinster SFs
31st May- Munster and Leinster finals
13th/14th June- Grp Matchday 1 (Prov champs week off)
20th/21st June- Grp Matchday 2 (Random draw for who gets week off)
27th/28th June- Grp Matchday 3 (Random draw for who gets week off)
4th/5th July- Grp Matchday 4 (Random draw for who gets week off)
11th/12th July- Grp Matchday 5 (Random draw for who gets week off)
18th/19th July- Relagation match
25th/26th July- All Ireland semi finals
16th Aug- All Ireland final

windy shepard henderson

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Even Dublin fans now say Dublin should play less in Croker. Only the Leinster final should be in Croker. The super 8 should be one at home, 1 away and the 3rd neutral in a venue between the two competing counties.

Realistically Dublin should only play league final, Leinster final, all Ireland semi and final in Croker. That would be 4 trips a year assuming they are getting to all major finals. It wouldn't completely over saturate the experience and their players wouldn't feel like it's their proper home. It might also encourage the Dublin County board to get their finger out and build a stadium suitable for their needs.

tullamore or portlaoise would be perfect venues for dublin , it really should have been done years ago , but money talks i think it will change in time however

salmocab

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Even Dublin fans now say Dublin should play less in Croker. Only the Leinster final should be in Croker. The super 8 should be one at home, 1 away and the 3rd neutral in a venue between the two competing counties.

Realistically Dublin should only play league final, Leinster final, all Ireland semi and final in Croker. That would be 4 trips a year assuming they are getting to all major finals. It wouldn't completely over saturate the experience and their players wouldn't feel like it's their proper home. It might also encourage the Dublin County board to get their finger out and build a stadium suitable for their needs.

Whilst I don’t really care about the games out of Croke park what size stadium do you think Dublin should build? A 30,000 on the spawell site was talked about and that would be great but it would seem like a massive waste of money to build a stadium that’s only needed 5 or 6 times a year. The hurlers don’t need much more than Parnell park can hold so it’s only needed for 3 or 4 home league games for the footballers and maybe 2 or 3 championship games between the footballers and hurlers. Obviously the hurlers would move in but it wouldn’t be needed. This would cost millions and it would only be built to stop people moaning about the dubs in Croke park. That just seems a waste to me.

Dots1982

salmocab wrote: »

Whilst I don’t really care about the games out of Croke park what size stadium do you think Dublin should build? A 30,000 on the spawell site was talked about and that would be great but it would seem like a massive waste of money to build a stadium that’s only needed 5 or 6 times a year. The hurlers don’t need much more than Parnell park can hold so it’s only needed for 3 or 4 home league games for the footballers and maybe 2 or 3 championship games between the footballers and hurlers. Obviously the hurlers would move in but it wouldn’t be needed. This would cost millions and it would only be built to stop people moaning about the dubs in Croke park. That just seems a waste to me.

Ideally Dublin GAA would join up with a soccer team in the capital or Leinster Rugby and it would become a stadium that both could use. Unfortunately that probably won’t happen as Domestic soccer is too small time. Maybe Leinster rugby would be interested but they have Anglesey road and the Aviva from big games so don’t need it.

That’s how it works in normal cities but unfortunately in Ireland, stadium sharing between codes is a complicated issue.

If I was a Dermot Desmond or some Irish billionaire I would be very interested in the idea of building a soccer franchise in Dublin to compete in the UK leagues. A city of Dublin’s size with a love of sport and the premier and Scottish league deserves a proper elite soccer team.

It won’t happen in the next ten years but long term I wouldn’t say it will never happen.

digzy

Know it's not strictly what this threads about but the helmets need to be redesigned.

Ive seen so many dental injuries over the years caused by malficience. Think 4 extra bars on the lower half of the helmet would put a stop to this without hampering vision.

Alternatively, I wonder is it possible to make a clear Perspex type cover for the face mask to protect the eyes.

Don't think these measures are necessary in most cases but there's a rump of scumbags who commit these assaults and the costs/ recuperation are shocking.

salmocab

Dots1982 wrote: »

Ideally Dublin GAA would join up with a soccer team in the capital or Leinster Rugby and it would become a stadium that both could use. Unfortunately that probably won’t happen as Domestic soccer is too small time. Maybe Leinster rugby would be interested but they have Anglesey road and the Aviva from big games so don’t need it.

That’s how it works in normal cities but unfortunately in Ireland, stadium sharing between codes is a complicated issue.

If I was a Dermot Desmond or some Irish billionaire I would be very interested in the idea of building a soccer franchise in Dublin to compete in the UK leagues. A city of Dublin’s size with a love of sport and the premier and Scottish league deserves a proper elite soccer team.

It won’t happen in the next ten years but long term I wouldn’t say it will never happen.

Pitch dimensions make that a non runner.

Dots1982

salmocab wrote: »

Pitch dimensions make that a non runner.

Is there a pitch already in place that can’t be expanded?

Jesus, if you’re just saying that they have different pitch sizes so they can’t accommodate both it then it’s pretty small minded thinking.

Plenty of European stadiums host both soccer and rugby/rugby league.

salmocab

Dots1982 wrote: »

Is there a pitch already in place that can’t be expanded?

Jesus, if you’re just saying that they have different pitch sizes so they can’t accommodate both it then it’s pretty small minded thinking.

Plenty of European stadiums host both soccer and rugby/rugby league.

Yes but GAA pitches are substantially bigger than rugby and soccer pitches. It kills atmosphere when the pitch is so far from the fans. Rugby and soccer can comfortably share grounds but Leinster rugby aren’t going to want to share a pitch that means the sidelines are an extra 10 or 15 meters from the crowd.

Dots1982

Jesus i don’t know. Seems a jump entirely to call it a non-runner. Having a different minimum 30k capacity stadium for all our cities, one for GAA and one for other codes seems more a non-runner.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-Gaelic_games_played_in_Croke_Park

salmocab

Dots1982 wrote: »

Jesus i don’t know. Seems a jump entirely to call it a non-runner. Having a different minimum 30k capacity stadium for all our cities, one for GAA and one for other codes seems more a non-runner.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-Gaelic_games_played_in_Croke_Park

I’m not saying it’s physically not possible but I don’t see any way Leinster who are the only other sports team in need of that size stadia would get involved in a stadium that wouldn’t suit their sport. Rugby supporters complained about the distance from the pitch in Croke park as it was just too far. They also don’t need a stadium as their own is being expanded to what they need soon anyway and if they grow again to a stage where they need 30,000 regularly they’ll just move to the aviva.

Beechwoodspark

kilns wrote: »

I am saying for the current team the funding was not a factor, the funding has helped clubs attract more children and for new clubs and areas where no children have previously been reached to be able now to be reached and brought into the game

If the funding is to have an impact it will be long term and you will see I would estimate in 5 to 10 years, however, if you look at under age success as a barometer than so far you could argue that funding is not directly related to success

Delusion stuff.

salmocab

Who was it telling us the Dublin hurlers are dining at the top table?

MayoAreMagic

kilns wrote: »

If Dublin did not receive a penny of funding would we still have had Cluxton, Cooper, McCarthy, OSullivan, McCaffrey, Fenton, Brogan, Costello, Flynn, Connolly, Kilkenny, Mannion - yes we would

Has it not occurred to you that without that elite coaching, paid for by the rest of the country, throughout their developmental years, that these lads might not actually be as good as they are today?
Furthermore, would they all be playing football without all this extra funding invested? Or would for example, mannion have stuck with the soccer?
People talking about a golden generation of dublin players cant see the wood from the trees. For a start, they are from several different generations. Secondly, all mentioned bar brogan and cluxton, would have utilised these coaches. Its not a golden generation, it is in fact undeniable proof that the money is making a difference to the quality of players that dublin are able to produce..

MayoAreMagic

kilns wrote: »

On a side note, do counties like Mayo and Kilkenny equally split their development funding resources between hurling and football?

No they dont. But the downside of that is they dont get to compete in the other sport. If they want to choose to make that sacrifice then that is their decision. It only affects themselves.

Not that either county need to explain themselves to the handout kings in the capital...

Beechwoodspark

Question to the dubliners on this thread

Do you realise the anger and frustration among rest of the gaa public over the financial doping?

Do you realise a big proportion of the gaa public have little or no respect for Dublin’s achievements over the last few years due to the financial doping?

I think Dublin are in serious denial about it all.

MayoAreMagic

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Question to the dubliners on this thread

Do you realise the anger and frustration among rest of the gaa public over the financial doping?

Do you realise a big proportion of the gaa public have little or no respect for Dublin’s achievements over the last few years due to the financial doping?

I think Dublin are in serious denial about it all.

My own belief is they are fully aware of it but they just dont want to admit it or entertain that discussion. They are generally well capable of such observations when it is other counties under the microscope so I dont buy this kind of collective ignorance spiel they push on this topic. I mean how could anyone not be aware of the improvement of quality in the players they are now producing compared to before they got all that cash? It's the most obvious thing in football today. They seem to be aping what the gaa president is doing, but they would do well to see how his response has been derided in all quarters. He has lost a lot of respect.

They seem to just want to keep winning in the here and now, but in years to come that will come back to haunt them. Their greatest team wont be remembered for their great football, but rather what it took to get them winning something. Maybe they are just drunk on the success of it all?

ToBeFrank123

The "Newbridge or Nowhere" saga revealed that a county like Kildare if given home advantage can give a good performance. Now it mightn't be enough to beat Dublin but they still should have the option to play Dublin in the championship in their home ground if they want.

Most Mayo fans couldn't make that game and yes it probably cost the GAA a few bob, as would any Leinster championship game outside Croke Park, although less so in recent years.

The issue is though, Leinster counties should not be threatened with a reduction in funds if they don't play Dublin in Croke Pak. There needs to be better ring fencing of monies, or better redistribution of money.

Dublin having all their games in Croke Park or at worst a neutral venue is inherently unfair to other Leinster teams.

blanch152

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Question to the dubliners on this thread

Do you realise the anger and frustration among rest of the gaa public over the financial doping?

Do you realise a big proportion of the gaa public have little or no respect for Dublin’s achievements over the last few years due to the financial doping?

I think Dublin are in serious denial about it all.

Apart from a few journalists on a crusade and a handful of people on these threads, I have to say that it never comes up when I am talking to ordinary GAA people. Even when talking to mentors and parents at Feile, or other club trips, the talk is never about financial doping, in fact many of them bemoan their own club and county spending on things that don’t matter, a particular chorus in a recent visit to Cork.

When you see posters on this thread who post more about Dublin than they do about their own county, you see how delusional some of them are.

Anyway, as Laois beat the senior hurlers, and Kildare beat the minor footballers, all talk of world dominance must be over for another year. You will be telling us next we are spending the money wrong because it isn’t guaranteeing inter-county success, even though we keep telling you it is for mass participation

ToBeFrank123

blanch152 wrote: »

Apart from a few journalists on a crusade and a handful of people on these threads, I have to say that it never comes up when I am talking to ordinary GAA people. Even when talking to mentors and parents at Feile, or other club trips, the talk is never about financial doping, in fact many of them bemoan their own club and county spending on things that don’t matter, a particular chorus in a recent visit to Cork.

You have to be having a laugh with this bit. Everyone in the country is talking about it.

As for the Feile, etc, they mightn't say it to your face, but you can be sure they say it behind your back.

Fann Linn

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

You have to be having a laugh with this bit. Everyone in the country is talking about it.

As for the Feile, etc, they mightn't say it to your face, but you can be sure they say it behind your back.

Everybody?