Changes in the GAA - super thread

ToBeFrank123

Fann Linn wrote: »

Everybody?

Yes, everybody.

You Dubs need to get out more, or get outside Dublin more. There's more to life than the pro Dublin echo chamber you inhabit.

Jaden

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Yes, everybody.

You Dubs need to get out more, or get outside Dublin more. There's more to life than the pro Dublin echo chamber you inhabit.

Outside of a very limited number of forums and threads, literally no-one has ever spoken with me about "financial doping".

I think there is a case to be made for saying that this specific thread is an echo-chamber.

salmocab

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The "Newbridge or Nowhere" saga revealed that a county like Kildare if given home advantage can give a good performance. Now it mightn't be enough to beat Dublin but they still should have the option to play Dublin in the championship in their home ground if they want.

Most Mayo fans couldn't make that game and yes it probably cost the GAA a few bob, as would any Leinster championship game outside Croke Park, although less so in recent years.

The issue is though, Leinster counties should not be threatened with a reduction in funds if they don't play Dublin in Croke Pak. There needs to be better ring fencing of monies, or better redistribution of money.

Dublin having all their games in Croke Park or at worst a neutral venue is inherently unfair to other Leinster teams.

Your issue here is with who decided where games are played. It was years of get Dublin out of Croke park. Now it’s out of neutral venues (which I assume are due to capacity issues but open to correction) along with neutral game shouldn’t be in Croke park despite it specifically stated as it is in Croke park. Dublin don’t have more votes than anyone else on this matter.

ToBeFrank123

Jaden wrote: »

Outside of a very limited number of forums and threads, literally no-one has ever spoken with me about "financial doping".

There's countless threads on the subject on Hoganstand alone.

You only have to google "financial doping hoganstand"

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

Apart from a few journalists on a crusade and a handful of people on these threads, I have to say that it never comes up when I am talking to ordinary GAA people. Even when talking to mentors and parents at Feile, or other club trips, the talk is never about financial doping

Going by your responses on here, it is not really any surprise that they dont speak to you about dublin...

As for this thing about a 'handful of journalists on a crusade', i would say that every single journalist, outside of the vinnie murphy crew, have addressed this point at some stage in the last few years. The only guys i seen who were not stating it is a problem is a couple of kerry lads who are just trying run with the horse and the hound. It is the most talked about topic in the gaa today.

Jaden

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

There's countless threads on the subject on Hoganstand alone.

You only have to google "financial doping hoganstand"

As I said, it appears to have an extremely limited scope of discussion.

ToBeFrank123

Jaden wrote: »

As I said, it appears to have an extremely limited scope of discussion.

:rolleyes:

On practically every major forum in Ireland there is at least one thread on financial doping in Dublin.

Every significant news outlet has covered the story, and where comments are allowed, there are usually countless comments about it.

That's not to mention wider social media such as twitter and facebook.

So how you can say "its only a relatively small number of people" or words to that effect is beyond me. Its just more of the usual denial of the truth and facts Dublin supporters are becoming famous for.

MayoAreMagic

Jaden wrote: »

As I said, it appears to have an extremely limited scope of discussion.

In fairness, it is regularly discussed on gaa podcasts. The gaa hour for example have done several pieces on it. I know dubs dont like colm parkinson (because instead of paying homage to them, he just tells the truth), but most of his pundits are respected gaa players from up and down the country, and they agree with him.
Off the ball have done numerous pieces too, and half of those lads are plastic dubs

MayoAreMagic

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

On practically every major forum in Ireland there is at least one thread on financial doping in Dublin.

Every significant news outlet has covered the story, and where comments are allowed, there are usually countless comments about it.

That's not to mention wider social media such as twitter and facebook.

So how you can say "its only a relatively small number of people" or words to that effect is beyond me. Its just more of the usual denial of the truth and facts Dublin supporters are becoming famous for.

Agreed. They are just barefaced attempts to control the narrative. It is probably one of the most concerning and talked about topics ever in the gaa.

Jaden

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

On practically every major forum in Ireland there is at least one thread on financial doping in Dublin.

Every significant news outlet has covered the story, and where comments are allowed, there are usually countless comments about it.

That's not to mention wider social media such as twitter and facebook.

So how you can say "its only a relatively small number of people" or words to that effect is beyond me. Its just more of the usual denial of the truth and facts Dublin supporters are becoming famous for.

I think you need to get out into the real world a bit more.

Wander down a small boreen, engage in GAA small-talk with the locals. You might find that the world of GAA looks a little bit different then.

"Everything is always shyte on the internet."

salmocab

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Agreed. They are just barefaced attempts to control the narrative. It is probably one of the most concerning and talked about topics ever in the gaa.

Control the narrative? Have a look back over this thread and see how many ‘typical Dub’ replies you see. Dubs are constantly shouted down and people say things like we already dealt with that or I knocked that out of the park, people keep declaring victory in the debate and pipe in when someone gives a view they don’t agree with and the amount of people claiming opinions as fact is astonishing. The only people here controlling the narrative are the people who use the term financial doping, it’s only because it’s a catchy phrase that it took off.

ToBeFrank123

Jaden wrote: »

I think you need to get out into the real world a bit more.

Wander down a small boreen, engage in GAA small-talk with the locals. You might find that the world of GAA looks a little bit different then.

"Everything is always shyte on the internet."

At least you are no longer peddling the lie that only a small number of pundits, journalists and people on social media ever bring up financial doping. Progress I guess.

MayoAreMagic

salmocab wrote: »

Control the narrative? Have a look back over this thread and see how many ‘typical Dub’ replies you see. Dubs are constantly shouted down and people say things like we already dealt with that or I knocked that out of the park, people keep declaring victory in the debate and pipe in when someone gives a view they don’t agree with and the amount of people claiming opinions as fact is astonishing. The only people here controlling the narrative are the people who use the term financial doping, it’s only because it’s a catchy phrase that it took off.

A perfect example of trying to control the narrative...

Financial doping is a bona fida term and is perfectly apt for the situation at hand.
The reason they are 'shouted down' is because their counter arguments are already disproven. The posters know this but post them anyway. Their mates like the posts, even though they all know its garbage. My personal favourite is 'why arent people shouting for kerry and kilkenny to be split?!' I dont believe anyone genuinely considers those things comparable, but it is a nice soundbite for people who want to avoid genuine discussion.

ToBeFrank123

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Agreed. They are just barefaced attempts to control the narrative. It is probably one of the most concerning and talked about topics ever in the gaa.

Speaking of controlling the narrative, probably the worst offender is John Horan, current president of the GAA. Everyone sees some of the inherent imbalances in the championship and how and why they should be fixed. Horan just pretends they don't exist and always comes out batting for Dublin.

The President of the GAA is supposed to be impartial and take off the county jersey once they assume the role.

I'll stop short of saying its yet one more advantage Dublin have gained in recent years, but it would be nice to see the guy act fairly and impartially the odd time.

MayoAreMagic

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Speaking of controlling the narrative, probably the worst offender is John Horan, current president of the GAA. Everyone sees some of the inherent imbalances in the championship and how and why they should be fixed. Horan just pretends they don't exist and always comes out batting for Dublin.

The President of the GAA is supposed to be impartial and take off the county jersey once they assume the role.

I'll stop short of saying its yet one more advantage Dublin have gained in recent years, but it would be nice to see the guy act fairly and impartially the odd time.

Agreed. He got badly exposed on the gaa hour this week. He gave a painful response recently about basically not knowing how the gaa financial system works. They then played an interview he did a while back where he describes the system and states how he himself was part of setting it up...
It was trump-esque

salmocab

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

A perfect example of trying to control the narrative...

Financial doping is a bona fida term and is perfectly apt for the situation at hand.
The reason they are 'shouted down' is because their counter arguments are already disproven. The posters know this but post them anyway. Their mates like the posts, even though they all know its garbage. My personal favourite is 'why arent people shouting for kerry and kilkenny to be split?!' I dont believe anyone genuinely considers those things comparable, but it is a nice soundbite for people who want to avoid genuine discussion.

Indeed

Jaden

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

At least you are no longer peddling the lie that only a small number of pundits, journalists and people on social media ever bring up financial doping. Progress I guess.

"Financial Doping" as it is termed, is a fringe issue. I stand by that opinion. Alas, it distracts from actual issues that should be discussed - which I feel is not a good thing. YMMV.

ArielAtom

The newest term that we are going to see on-line now is controlling the narrative. The internet can be a wonderful place, alas it allows for opinions, these are always going to differ, the shocking part of this debate is that one so called journalist is robbing a living out of it while sitting in a different continent. He is someone that has rinsed and repeated the same article for two years if not more now and the media buy into it because it get clicks, which pay the bills. The lack of development in most counties is not due to funding, but inept county boards, look at Limerick, they are the only county to engage with Dublin re the structures they have put in place at underage development, this is not just aimed at playing numbers as some foolishly think, this is aimed at all children to encourage participation. Anyway I will leave you pug lovers to it. BTW, Some of the diction in posts has progressed very well. almost journalistic quality I believe.

Beechwoodspark

Jaden wrote: »

Outside of a very limited number of forums and threads, literally no-one has ever spoken with me about "financial doping".

I think there is a case to be made for saying that this specific thread is an echo-chamber.

Jaden. Just to say, you and your like are fooling NOBODY in the gaa whether in the hierarchy or grassroots supporters.

Beechwoodspark

Fann Linn wrote: »

Everybody?

Get outside the Dublin bubble and ask ppl. Have a conversation. Ask ppl to be honest with you.

Then you might get a sense of what ppl really think of the ludicrous situation Gaelic football finds itself in.

MayoAreMagic

ArielAtom wrote: »

The newest term that we are going to see on-line now is controlling the narrative. The internet can be a wonderful place, alas it allows for opinions, these are always going to differ, the shocking part of this debate is that one so called journalist is robbing a living out of it while sitting in a different continent. He is someone that has rinsed and repeated the same article for two years if not more now and the media buy into it because it get clicks, which pay the bills. The lack of development in most counties is not due to funding, but inept county boards, look at Limerick, they are the only county to engage with Dublin re the structures they have put in place at underage development, this is not just aimed at playing numbers as some foolishly think, this is aimed at all children to encourage participation. Anyway I will leave you pug lovers to it. BTW, Some of the diction in posts has progressed very well. almost journalistic quality I believe.

Why does it matter where he lives?
As for rehashing the same two articles, if it sells then more power to him, what is the problem? That is a lance armstrong-esque response when queried about drugs... The reality is the truth hurts and it has a habit of not going away.
The truth is this topic is mentioned on every podcast, every radio program and every interview with gaa people. That isnt all down to one journalist, as much as it suits the narrative to say it is.

As for this nonsense about conferring with dublin county board. What county has 1.3 million people and the ability to draw that kind of sponsorship? Answer - nobody. What other county can get away with not building or maintaining their own home ground? Answer - nobody.
What county can get the gaa to give them handouts to the value of 10 times what everyone else is getting (with dublin getting 17 million, they would need to be getting 170 million)? Answer - nobody.
So what is the point in any of them copying the dublin system then?

harpsman

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Speaking of controlling the narrative, probably the worst offender is John Horan, current president of the GAA. Everyone sees some of the inherent imbalances in the championship and how and why they should be fixed. Horan just pretends they don't exist and always comes out batting for Dublin.

The President of the GAA is supposed to be impartial and take off the county jersey once they assume the role.

I'll stop short of saying its yet one more advantage Dublin have gained in recent years, but it would be nice to see the guy act fairly and impartially the odd time.

I think with John Horan his attitude has more to do with the arrogance of GAA top brass(like most top brass in fairness) than the fact he's from dublin. Like the Newbridge or Nowhere its a case of close ranks, and on no account admit we ****ed up, again.

Like alot of things in the GAA, the problem will be addressed eeventually, years later than it should have been. Probably once they cant shift tickets for all ireland finals the penny will drop, and a 2nd team will be created in Dublin, much like happens all the time with new clubs forming in areas where previously there was only one club.

The quicker it happens, the better for everyone, especially Dublin.

bruschi

ArielAtom wrote: »

The lack of development in most counties is not due to funding, but inept county boards, look at Limerick, they are the only county to engage with Dublin re the structures they have put in place at underage development, this is not just aimed at playing numbers as some foolishly think, this is aimed at all children to encourage participation.

what are the structures that Dublin have in place that Limerick have replicated? And what are other counties doing or not doing that is causing them not to be at the same level?

MayoAreMagic

bruschi wrote: »

what are the structures that Dublin have in place that Limerick have replicated? And what are other counties doing or not doing that is causing them not to be at the same level?

Copying dublins structures is a complete red herring. Nobody can physically do it.
In reality, counties should be trying to replicate a counties like kerry, mayo and tyrone. Obviously they arent perfect either, but as regards being able to compete with average means they are a good starting point.

Jaden

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Jaden. Just to say, you and your like are fooling NOBODY in the gaa whether in the hierarchy or grassroots supporters.

You are correct. But I'm not trying to fool anyone.

doc_17

Limerick have JP’s money and Dublin have the GAA’s money. You could say both of them have our money. JP decides not to pay tax, isn’t he a tax exile?, and give it to Limerick instead. Dublin get the money that everyone should get.

bruschi

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Copying dublins structures is a complete red herring. Nobody can physically do it.
In reality, counties should be trying to replicate a counties like kerry, mayo and tyrone. Obviously they arent perfect either, but as regards being able to compete with average means they are a good starting point.

Either way, I'm specifically asking a poster to clarify what underage structures are in place in Dublin, what have Limerick done and what have other counties done or not done.

ArielAtom

bruschi wrote: »

what are the structures that Dublin have in place that Limerick have replicated? And what are other counties doing or not doing that is causing them not to be at the same level?

The structures are the same development structures developed by the DCB. Limerick asked what to do with regards to developing Gaelic games in their county, they implemented the model developed by Dublin by way of train the trainer programmes, thus enabling the club coaches to train the club team mentors whilst also introducing gaelic games to the wider community by way of assisting in developing games development programmes in schools. That is a very high level synopsis of the plan. Remember the monies spent were not as alluded by some ill informed posters towards the senior football team in Dublin.

Fann Linn

harpsman wrote: »

I think with John Horan his attitude has more to do with the arrogance of GAA top brass(like most top brass in fairness) than the fact he's from dublin. Like the Newbridge or Nowhere its a case of close ranks, and on no account admit we ****ed up, again.

Like alot of things in the GAA, the problem will be addressed eeventually, years later than it should have been. Probably once they cant shift tickets for all ireland finals the penny will drop, and a 2nd team will be created in Dublin, much like happens all the time with new clubs forming in areas where previously there was only one club.

The quicker it happens, the better for everyone, especially Dublin.

It will never happen.

No more than the other Leinster counties deciding to play Dublin in their own county grounds OR the rest of the country voting along with Donegal in relation go the Dublin 'neutral' game, it will never happen.

And by the way, there are plenty of threads on hoganstand and other forums, there are plenty of comments on the journal and other media, Colm Parkinson and Newstalk and other media outlets raise the above issues constantly and nothing has changed.

When eventually Dublin lose, this issue will be put to bed.

ToBeFrank123

If every club in Ireland had a paid GDO as per the Dublin model, it would cost the GAA close to 50 million annually.

I wonder do people understand that when they say "copy the Dublin model".