Changes in the GAA - super thread

kilns

beggars_bush wrote: »

Donegal put in the motion alright

the GAA top brass railed against it to stop any change happening.
The actually predicted cuts to other counties funding due to decreased revenue

The GAA is no longer a democracy as it chases the smell of Euro to fund the likes of the Dublin coaching program

considering Dublin are now middle of the pack in terms of per under 18 capita of funding, I think I would correct your statement to chase the Euro to fund coaching of children nationwide

Bridge93

I agree that funding needs to continue to be corrected as does this home advantage issue. GAA HQ need to get the finger out fast and resolve what are very common sense problems with solutions.

The one argument i dont back is this split dublin in two or more or whatever. Thats reactionary to the football team. Do you split the hurlers who are average? or the club championships? or underage teams?

Its representative sport, you pick teams based on the geographical areas from which they represent. If dublin is divided in 4 does that mean cork must also be divided into 2? or should dublin be into 20 so as leitrim have a chance and cork divided into 10, limerick into 5 and so on? why just dublin?

There are never any complaints of unfair advantage when india with 1.4bn people play cricket against new zealand with a smaller population than ourselves. or when brazil or whoever play football against ecuador or uruguay. Population disproportion doesnt come into it.

And those are examples from countries where the sport is a religion. GAA in dublin is nowhere close to cricket in india or football in brazil. There are huge parts of the city where the game is non existent. On a per capita basis dublin would have far lower participation numbers than any other county bar maybe some of the northern ones.
Anyone know what % of dublin's population are from either outside of ireland or outside of the capital itself? A far far higher amount than the rest of the country i would imagine. Its not like there are 2m dubs to pick the county teams from.


Fix the fixables be that home advantage (very fixable with the help of country delegates) and funding. Funding is a more complicated issue to fix as you dont want kids missing out in order to correct imbalances at county level. But if funding is provided with T's and C's about how it is used im sure it can be corrected in a manner than is equitable to all.

But the bigger population argument just doesnt sit well with me. Seems reactionary to an issue that can be amended by means that dont come across as sour grapes or mess with traditional boundaries. You're as well combining counties as dividing them, it has the same negative effect on the competition.

blanch152

beggars_bush wrote: »

Donegal put in the motion alright

the GAA top brass railed against it to stop any change happening.
The actually predicted cuts to other counties funding due to decreased revenue

The GAA is no longer a democracy as it chases the smell of Euro to fund the likes of the Dublin coaching program

Last time I checked the Donegal motion was defeated at Congress by delegates elected by their County Board elected by club delegates elected by ordinary members of the GAA.

Couldn't get more democratic than that.

kilns

Bridge93 wrote: »

I agree that funding needs to continue to be corrected as does this home advantage issue. GAA HQ need to get the finger out fast and resolve what are very common sense problems with solutions.

The one argument i dont back is this split dublin in two or more or whatever. Thats reactionary to the football team. Do you split the hurlers who are average? or the club championships? or underage teams?

Its representative sport, you pick teams based on the geographical areas from which they represent. If dublin is divided in 4 does that mean cork must also be divided into 2? or should dublin be into 20 so as leitrim have a chance and cork divided into 10, limerick into 5 and so on? why just dublin?

There are never any complaints of unfair advantage when india with 1.4bn people play cricket against new zealand with a smaller population than ourselves. or when brazil or whoever play football against ecuador or uruguay. Population disproportion doesnt come into it.

And those are examples from countries where the sport is a religion. GAA in dublin is nowhere close to cricket in india or football in brazil. There are huge parts of the city where the game is non existent. On a per capita basis dublin would have far lower participation numbers than any other county bar maybe some of the northern ones.
Anyone know what % of dublin's population are from either outside of ireland or outside of the capital itself? A far far higher amount than the rest of the country i would imagine. Its not like there are 2m dubs to pick the county teams from.


Fix the fixables be that home advantage (very fixable with the help of country delegates) and funding. Funding is a more complicated issue to fix as you dont want kids missing out in order to correct imbalances at county level. But if funding is provided with T's and C's about how it is used im sure it can be corrected in a manner than is equitable to all.

But the bigger population argument just doesnt sit well with me. Seems reactionary to an issue that can be amended by means that dont come across as sour grapes or mess with traditional boundaries. You're as well combining counties as dividing them, it has the same negative effect on the competition.

It had been an issue and I do get peoples issues seeing large funding going to Games development in Dublin and I think what annoys most Dublin people is the lack of knowledge and understanding behind the funding even to this day, it is fuelled by the likes of Ewan McKenna who makes a living out of grinding axes, for example only the other day he claimed that 30 backroom staff of the Dublin senior football team were all fully paid employees and that the funding was used to cover their salaries, its crap like that that causes the problems. Dublin have used the funding responsibly and yes they have receive big amounts but as you say, and I agree, if even more funding was given to counties Ts and Cs have to be attached. For example, in the 2017 figures the spread of games development funding is quite even across the country if broken down into per capita for under 18 years of age. But is the money that is sent to each county for games development used for such purposes? I hope it is and the question to those who complain about the funding issue, can they say that it is in their own county?

beggars_bush

blanch152 wrote: »

Last time I checked the Donegal motion was defeated at Congress by delegates elected by their County Board elected by club delegates elected by ordinary members of the GAA.

Couldn't get more democratic than that.

About as democratic as China

All the delegates have been scared by the top table speaking against the motion and predicting funding reductions for all counties and clubs
Turkeys don't vote for Xmas

GAA funding should be based on registered numbers in clubs.
The Dublin coaching program hasn't seen a huge upsurge in participation from different communities or in many of the gaa neglected areas of Dublin

beggars_bush

kilns wrote: »

It had been an issue and I do get peoples issues seeing large funding going to Games development in Dublin and I think what annoys most Dublin people is the lack of knowledge and understanding behind the funding even to this day, it is fuelled by the likes of Ewan McKenna who makes a living out of grinding axes, for example only the other day he claimed that 30 backroom staff of the Dublin senior football team were all fully paid employees and that the funding was used to cover their salaries, its crap like that that causes the problems. Dublin have used the funding responsibly and yes they have receive big amounts but as you say, and I agree, if even more funding was given to counties Ts and Cs have to be attached. For example, in the 2017 figures the spread of games development funding is quite even across the country if broken down into per capita for under 18 years of age. But is the money that is sent to each county for games development used for such purposes? I hope it is and the question to those who complain about the funding issue, can they say that it is in their own county?

Most people down the country understand how it's used.
And that Dublin GAA have a very good structure in place for schools and clubs which filters through into county panels.

The issue is that why do Dublin get far more funding than other counties and urban areas when there are huge issues facing the GAA across the country.

Why is it per capita when clubs in Dublin have a pathetic reach into minority communities?
You'd see more ethnically diverse teams in Ballyhaunis, Kinnegad or Monksland than you would in a Dublin club

doc_17

A stadium in Athlone would be handy, catering for 30,000. Think of the all the neutral games that could be played there. GAA should do this. Croke Park will be a disaster again on Sunday.

kilns

beggars_bush wrote: »

Most people down the country understand how it's used.
And that Dublin GAA have a very good structure in place for schools and clubs which filters through into county panels.

The issue is that why do Dublin get far more funding than other counties and urban areas when there are huge issues facing the GAA across the country.

Why is it per capita when clubs in Dublin have a pathetic reach into minority communities?
You'd see more ethnically diverse teams in Ballyhaunis, Kinnegad or Monksland than you would in a Dublin club

You are talking in the present tense and as I said Games Development funds are aimed at development so therefore children under 18, so therefore your present tense argument does not hold as per capita of under 18 Dublin is middle of the pack in that regard. You cannot just say Dublin receive 1.3 million and my county received 200k etc as its just not a logical argument.

It is per Capita as it is the only rational way to analyse figures like this, by the way of the under 18 population in Dublin 4% is made up of non nationals. So if you have an average 25 kids on a squad, 4% of that squad would be 1 player and most squads would not have 25 players. Can you back up your statement that there is a pathetic reach into non national and minority communities and you see diverse teams aroudn the country or is this off the top of your head stuff? Thought so.

ToBeFrank123

kilns wrote: »

It had been an issue and I do get peoples issues seeing large funding going to Games development in Dublin and I think what annoys most Dublin people is the lack of knowledge and understanding behind the funding even to this day, it is fuelled by the likes of Ewan McKenna who makes a living out of grinding axes, for example only the other day he claimed that 30 backroom staff of the Dublin senior football team were all fully paid employees and that the funding was used to cover their salaries, its crap like that that causes the problems. Dublin have used the funding responsibly and yes they have receive big amounts but as you say, and I agree, if even more funding was given to counties Ts and Cs have to be attached. For example, in the 2017 figures the spread of games development funding is quite even across the country if broken down into per capita for under 18 years of age. But is the money that is sent to each county for games development used for such purposes? I hope it is and the question to those who complain about the funding issue, can they say that it is in their own county?

Nope what irritates people is the fact Dublin have become a pet project of the GAA.
You keep saying no-one else knows anything about Dublin football.
Do you know about other urban areas? Cork City, Waterford, Galway city, Belfast, Derry city, Sligo, etc etc?
Do you think they have the same issues re under-participation as Dublin.
Cork, Derry and Sligo football are really struggling and weak at the moment.

Take off the Dublin jersey. There are 32 counties in Ireland, all of which are entitled to a fair distribution of funds. Stop singling Dublin out as being different or a special case for funding. It absolutely isn't. This is where the issues began in the GAA, believing Dublin was a special case that needed more funds, which by the way is financial doping in anyone's book. It produces a better trained senior footballer down the road, no-one seriously doubts this.

As others have said the GAA started chasing the smell of money in Dublin, hoping to unlock huge support and interest in the GAA. It backfired spectacularly to the point they'll be lucky to get 45,000 at future Leinster finals and 30,000 at many other Dublin games.

ToBeFrank123

kilns wrote: »

You are talking in the present tense and as I said Games Development funds are aimed at development so therefore children under 18, so therefore your present tense argument does not hold as per capita of under 18 Dublin is middle of the pack in that regard. You cannot just say Dublin receive 1.3 million and my county received 200k etc as its just not a logical argument.

It is per Capita as it is the only rational way to analyse figures like this, by the way of the under 18 population in Dublin 4% is made up of non nationals. So if you have an average 25 kids on a squad, 4% of that squad would be 1 player and most squads would not have 25 players. Can you back up your statement that there is a pathetic reach into non national and minority communities and you see diverse teams aroudn the country or is this off the top of your head stuff? Thought so.

Its up to you to back it up. You don't even have to give us a name. Tell us a Dublin IC team over the last 10 years that featured at least 1 non national? If participation has been such as success, you shouldn't struggle to give us one example.
Even counties who receive a relative pittance in games development funding have been successful in spreading the sport outside the traditional demographic.

salmocab

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Its up to you to back it up. You don't even have to give us a name. Tell us a Dublin IC team over the last 10 years that featured at least 1 non national? If participation has been such as success, you shouldn't struggle to give us one example.
Even counties who receive a relative pittance in games development funding have been successful in spreading the sport outside the traditional demographic.

This is just nonsense at this stage. You really can’t see that not having I/C non nationals doesn’t mean they aren’t playing? You’ve been beating this drum for a while and have no evidence of participation beyond ‘look at the i/c teams’. When asked for evidence you just throw back it’s up to you! There is no evidence so this is all your opinion not fact.

ToBeFrank123

salmocab wrote: »

This is just nonsense at this stage. You really can’t see that not having I/C non nationals doesn’t mean they aren’t playing? You’ve been beating this drum for a while and have no evidence of participation beyond ‘look at the i/c teams’. When asked for evidence you just throw back it’s up to you! There is no evidence so this is all your opinion not fact.

There is no evidence they are participating on IC teams. This is a red flag to be honest.

The whole spreading participation thing is a myth.

A very narrow demographic are getting onto IC teams. A very narrow, professionally trained demographic.

Dublin spent 18 million to increase participation between 2007 and 2018 and yet have only 15% more registered players than Cork who received far less.

But in that time, Dublin have achieved unprecedented senior, U21 and club success. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where the serious money was spent and what teams benefitted.

ToBeFrank123

I will concede this. When you spend vast amounts of money on professional trainers to train kids, you will end up with the best senior IC team in the country 10 years down the road and for many years after. That's a given.

kilns

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Nope what irritates people is the fact Dublin have become a pet project of the GAA.
You keep saying no-one else knows anything about Dublin football.
Do you know about other urban areas? Cork City, Waterford, Galway city, Belfast, Derry city, Sligo, etc etc?
Do you think they have the same issues re under-participation as Dublin.
Cork, Derry and Sligo football are really struggling and weak at the moment.

Take off the Dublin jersey. There are 32 counties in Ireland, all of which are entitled to a fair distribution of funds. Stop singling Dublin out as being different or a special case for funding. It absolutely isn't. This is where the issues began in the GAA, believing Dublin was a special case that needed more funds, which by the way is financial doping in anyone's book. It produces a better trained senior footballer down the road, no-one seriously doubts this.

As others have said the GAA started chasing the smell of money in Dublin, hoping to unlock huge support and interest in the GAA. It backfired spectacularly to the point they'll be lucky to get 45,000 at future Leinster finals and 30,000 at many other Dublin games.

No I say YOU have no clue about Dublin GAA as you are clearly don’t because you say things with no foundation and expect people to take them as fact. I have previously said to you I would never claim to know anything about grass roots Mayo for example and therefore will not make statements about them. For that reason I will not engage in a debate with you as it goes round and round in circles and I am not going to defend things that you make up just to fit your agendA

Good luck to you and my advice for others on here is not to engage with you on certain subjects as you are too ill informed to debate with

kilns

doc_17 wrote: »

A stadium in Athlone would be handy, catering for 30,000. Think of the all the neutral games that could be played there. GAA should do this. Croke Park will be a disaster again on Sunday.

Agreed

ToBeFrank123

kilns wrote: »

No I say YOU have no clue about Dublin GAA as you are clearly don’t because you say things with no foundation and expect people to take them as fact. I have previously said to you I would never claim to know anything about grass roots Mayo for example and therefore will not make statements about them. For that reason I will not engage in a debate with you as it goes round and round in circles and I am not going to defend things that you make up just to fit your agendA

Good luck to you and my advice for others on here is not to engage with you on certain subjects as you are too ill informed to debate with

I gave you countless chances to enlighten us with your expert knowledge of Dublin football such as how many non nationals play on Dublin IC teams. You couldn't tell us. You didn't know or you do know but refuse to tell us. I was going to ask you of examples of club teams where non nationals are well represented on the first team. I've a feeling you don't know the answer to that either. So yeh good luck.

Bonniedog

Dublin GAA to blame now for not being part of the plan to change Ireland into a Parisian banlieue.

Oh, you people have so much to look forward to....

kilns

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I gave you countless chances to enlighten us with your expert knowledge of Dublin football such as how many non nationals play on Dublin IC teams. You couldn't tell us. You didn't know or you do know but refuse to tell us. I was going to ask you of examples of club teams where non nationals are well represented on the first team. I've a feeling you don't know the answer to that either. So yeh good luck.

Seriously? Do you even read responses????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Now read slowly I will say it all again for you, 4% of the under 18 population of Dublin is made up of non nationals. If a underage squad as a squad of 25 players that equates to 1 non national on the squad. Lets take a round easy figure for you just say 100 clubs, so that is 100 squads of 25 players which is 2500 players out of those 2500, 100 would be foreign nationals. What are the probabilities that one makes a inter county squad.

Speaking for my club, I can say that at some age group there are 3 or 4 foreign nationals on both boys and girls teams and at some age groups there are none.

Your foreign national argument is just stupid so move on and find something better

Bonniedog

kilns wrote: »

4% of the under 18 population of Dublin is made up of non nationals.

4%!

Multiply that by 5 and you would be closer.

Most non nationals have no interest in the GAA, and as the demographic changes away from Poles and other Europeans who have an affinity with other aspects of our culture, that will be the least of our worries.

kilns

Bonniedog wrote: »

4%!

Multiply that by 5 and you would be closer.

Most non nationals have no interest in the GAA, and as the demographic changes away from Poles and other Europeans who have an affinity with other aspects of our culture, that will be the least of our worries.

No I would rather use the last Census figures thank you

ToBeFrank123

kilns wrote: »

Seriously? Do you even read responses????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Now read slowly I will say it all again for you, 4% of the under 18 population of Dublin is made up of non nationals. If a underage squad as a squad of 25 players that equates to 1 non national on the squad. Lets take a round easy figure for you just say 100 clubs, so that is 100 squads of 25 players which is 2500 players out of those 2500, 100 would be foreign nationals. What are the probabilities that one makes a inter county squad.

Speaking for my club, I can say that at some age group there are 3 or 4 foreign nationals on both boys and girls teams and at some age groups there are none.

Your foreign national argument is just stupid so move on and find something better

The probabilities are 1 in 25.

The reality is something like 0 in 1000, if you take all the IC squads in recent years at all levels and both genders.

The probability and reality don't match. I will say it to you just as slowly for you. You have a huge issue there that is just being ignored.

So much for the much lauded spreading of gaelic sports in Dublin.

In any case, again, Dublin should not have been made a special case. Every urban area should have been treated equally. When vast sums were pumped into Dublin, the entire natural balance of gaelic football where teams came and went, became disrupted.

Trying to restore that natural balance is the long term goal now.

And I hope we never see a situation again where some clown thinks Dublin is falling behind and needs to be pumped to the gills with funds, so the poor kids can enjoy a bit of da auld gaelic.

kilns

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The probabilities are 1 in 25.

The reality is something like 0 in 1000, if you take all the IC squads in recent years at all levels and both genders.

The probability and reality don't match. I will say it to you just as slowly for you. You have a huge issue there that is just being ignored.

So much for the much lauded spreading of gaelic sports in Dublin.

In any case, again, Dublin should not have been made a special case. Every urban area should have been treated equally. When vast sums were pumped into Dublin, the entire natural balance of gaelic football where teams came and went, became disrupted.

Trying to restore that natural balance is the long term goal now.

And I hope we see a situation again where some clown thinks Dublin is falling behind and needs to be pumped to the gills with funds, so the poor kids can enjoy a bit of da auld gaelic.

Ha ha ha again you make statements thats it no background or fact! good luck to you, I will leave you to wallow in your hatred and ignorance. You need a new hobby

Bonniedog

kilns wrote: »

No I would rather use the last Census figures thank you

Almost 25% of population of Dublin City and Fingal were non Irish in 2016.

Project 2040 plans to import at least 400,000 more within next 25 years.

By which stage non Irish population of Dublin city and Fingal will be around 40%.


If you think the children of most immigrants consider themselves to be Irish, then I suggest you do some research on immigrant groups in other EU states.

beggars_bush

kilns wrote: »

No I say YOU have no clue about Dublin GAA as you are clearly don’t because you say things with no foundation and expect people to take them as fact. I have previously said to you I would never claim to know anything about grass roots Mayo for example and therefore will not make statements about them. For that reason I will not engage in a debate with you as it goes round and round in circles and I am not going to defend things that you make up just to fit your agendA

Good luck to you and my advice for others on here is not to engage with you on certain subjects as you are too ill informed to debate with

I played club football and club hurling when I lived in Dublin 10+ years ago
Was involved with an underage dual club while up there helping out with an underage group
Have attended plenty of training courses and other events run by Dublin GAA
I'd say I've a pretty good handle on the structures up there.

It's very handy in clubs having a full time coach going into local schools training and recruiting, plus available to take a team for a session or providing ideas for training.
It creates a great synergy in a club and allows the volunteers get on with training teams and running the club

kilns

Bonniedog wrote: »

Almost 25% of population of Dublin City and Fingal were non Irish in 2016.

Project 2040 plans to import at least 400,000 more within next 25 years.

By which stage non Irish population of Dublin city and Fingal will be around 40%.


If you think the children of most immigrants consider themselves to be Irish, then I suggest you do some research on immigrant groups in other EU states.

I dont think that at all, it is a challenge for sure and not just a GAA challenge a social challenge and every community is guilty of staying within their own community when in a foreign land.

11% of the total population (535,475) is made up of foreign nationals, my 4% in Dublin under the age of 18 can be found drilling down into this figure, as 13.95% of Dublins total population is made up of foreign nationals in 2016 according to the CSO

Bonniedog

kilns wrote: »

I dont think that at all, it is a challenge for sure and not just a GAA challenge a social challenge and every community is guilty of staying within their own community when in a foreign land.

11% of the total population (535,475) is made up of foreign nationals, my 4% in Dublin under the age of 18 can be found drilling down into this figure, as 13.95% of Dublins total population is made up of foreign nationals in 2016 according to the CSO

I'm not criticising them for maintaining their nationality. Not too many second generation Irish in London would take to be called "New English" !

I know a good few Poles, Latvians, Slovaks who raise their children in their own native language - as well as English obviously unlike some non-Europeans - and their children consider themselves primarily of their parent's nationality. Same as the London and New York and Boston Irish.

It is a fantasy unrealised in any other European country to believe that mass immigration can be managed other than to the detriment of the "natives" who are left in urban areas.

African gangs in Dublin identify themselves with tribes, not even the countries they come from. and yet some people are deluded into thinking they will all become Sean Óg Ó hÁilpin

The state, never mind the GAA, is not going to be able to cope with all that in Dublin.

beggars_bush

Bonniedog wrote: »

I'm not criticising them for maintaining their nationality. Not too many second generation Irish in London would take to be called "New English" !

I know a good few Poles, Latvians, Slovaks who raise their children in their own native language - as well as English obviously unlike some non-Europeans - and their children consider themselves primarily of their parent's nationality. Same as the London and New York and Boston Irish.

It is a fantasy unrealised in any other European country to believe that mass immigration can be managed other than to the detriment of the "natives" who are left in urban areas.

African gangs in Dublin identify themselves with tribes, not even the countries they come from. and yet some people are deluded into thinking they will all become Sean Óg Ó hÁilpin

The state, never mind the GAA, is not going to be able to cope with all that in Dublin.

No. But i don't know how clubs in westmeath, Roscommon and mayo can get the kids of of African, Pakistani and Eastern European immigrants playing the games

Bonniedog

beggars_bush wrote: »

No. But i don't know how clubs in westmeath, Roscommon and mayo can get the kids of of African, Pakistani and Eastern European immigrants playing the games

Fair play to them. Integration is probably easier when there is a good balance rather than what is happening in Dublin and other European urban areas.

Fann Linn

Bonniedog wrote: »

Fair play to them. Integration is probably easier when there is a good balance rather than what is happening in Dublin and other European urban areas.

And not a lot to do in places like Ballaghaderreen for example. Gaelic, soccer or cinema 30 miles away.

blinding

Fann Linn wrote: »

And not a lot to do in places like Ballaghaderreen for example. Gaelic, soccer or cinema 30 miles away.

Well Said .