Changes in the GAA - super thread

kilns

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

His tweets always come back to haunt him

He posted a lovely one a few years ago about Shane Lowry never having the bottle to win a major

Ooops!

and has now doubled down and called him a facist promotor and supporrer of facism, his credibility as a journalist is zero anyway

Fann Linn

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell.

The guy would be nowhere without the megamillions in games development funds backing him up and majority of home games.

At least Mick O' Dwyer was successfull at 3 if not 4 different counties.

I can't see Gavin ever trying that.

So Mick O Dwyer can be successful but Gavin can't.

That's it in a nutshell.

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

Since the 1950s, both the atmospheric CO2 level and obesity levels have increased sharply. Hence, atmospheric CO2 causes obesity.

Dublin got increased money for increasing juvenile participation. Dublin won more senior football All-Irelands (but not hurling ones or at underage). Hence, increased money casues more senior football All-Irelands (but not hurling ones or at underage).

That is the level your argument is at, one of correlation, not causation.

No it's not...
The proof is definitive and plentiful across numerous fields. If you want to keep denying it that is your business, but be aware that you will be placed on a par with flat-earthers because of it.

ToBeFrank123

Fann Linn wrote: »

So Mick O Dwyer can be successful but Gavin can't.

That's it in a nutshell.

How you came up with that logic from what I said is beyond me.

Mayoismagic said he didn't think Gavin would be succssfull elsewhere and I agreed with him.

He can try of course. But he's been handed advanages with Dublin such as funds and home advantage that even Micko didn't enjoy with Kerry.

Nope I think Gavin will seek to protect his legacy by never trying to manage a weaker county. I hope he proves me wrong. Somehow I don't think he will.

Micko will always be well ahead in the greatest manager stakes according to objective analysis. He did it with 4 different counties and wiped the floor with the Dubs at 3 of them.

MayoAreMagic

kilns wrote: »

and has now doubled down and called him a facist promotor and supporrer of facism, his credibility as a journalist is zero anyway

His analysis of the situation in the gaa is accurate though, regardless of whatever else the man has or hasnt said. I dont really care about the man beyond that point, in the context of this discussion.
In fact all these attempts to discredit him by discussing anything else he has said, bar the dublin stuff, only shows how people want to silence his message because they cant argue against it..

HBC08

@Mayoaremagic

Ha! im definitely stealing that "flat earthers" line

kilns

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

His analysis of the situation in the gaa is accurate though, regardless of whatever else the man has or hasnt said. I dont really care about the man beyond that point, in the context of this discussion.
In fact all these attempts to discredit him by discussing anything else he has said, bar the dublin stuff, only shows how people want to silence his message because they cant argue against it..

His Dublin and GAA articles are regularily factually debunked (but he says stuff people want to agree with so they dont question it) on twitter as with other stuff he says in other sports and I am not getting into a debate on it because it is tedious.

But he personally attacked the good names of two good people over the weekend and should be held accountable for it. Its like a Trump supporter saying I dont care he said racist stuff just look at the economy..

MayoAreMagic

Fann Linn wrote: »

So Mick O Dwyer can be successful but Gavin can't.

That's it in a nutshell.

My opinion on gavin is that I give him credit for leading dublin to all they have done and Im not knocking him. I just think that his style mightnt transfer well to other counties that would be in the mix. I dont think he would have won sam with donegal for example. I dont think mayo would have reached as many finals as they did either. That isnt to say mcguinness is better or horan is better, it is more to do with styles and suitability.

kilns

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

My opinion on gavin is that I give him credit for leading dublin to all they have done and Im not knocking him. I just think that his style mightnt transfer well to other counties that would be in the mix. I dont think he would have won sam with donegal for example. I dont think mayo would have reached as many finals as they did either. That isnt to say mcguinness is better or horan is better, it is more to do with styles and suitability.

Different managers have different strengths, he has a core group of fantastic players and he facilitates and extracts the most from their skillsets. I think one of things he most applauded for is keeping the whole group of players grounded and not getting carried away with their celebrity, basically his personality rubs off on them. He has surrounded himself with great coaches and its not just the best money can buy, he had the foresight to bring in a basketball coach to try and get around the blanket defences, its things like this which sets him apart. Thinking outside the box

MayoAreMagic

kilns wrote: »

His Dublin and GAA articles are regularily factually debunked (but he says stuff people want to agree with so they dont question it) on twitter as with other stuff he says in other sports and I am not getting into a debate on it because it is tedious.

But he personally attacked the good names of two good people over the weekend and should be held accountable for it. Its like a Trump supporter saying I dont care he said racist stuff just look at the economy..

They arent debunked though. They are just responded to with stuff that has long since been debunked itself, simply for the sake of having a response... Ive seen it happen. Nobody bothers to check because they just want confirmation of what they already believe.

As for attacking good names, the comparison with trump and racism are clearly not accurate.

kilns

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

They arent debunked though. They are just responded to with stuff that has long since been debunked itself, simply for the sake of having a response... Ive seen it happen. Nobody bothers to check because they just want confirmation of what they already believe.

As for attacking good names, the comparison with trump and racism are clearly not accurate.

They have been as he does his usual trick and cherry picks stuff out of context, just like he did with Shane Lowry, in general he is very poor at research. But I am not getting into the back and forth on it as its pointless as you or his supporters will see no wrong in it

I did not compare him to Trump I compare the attitide to some that follow him as to they dont care to what he says as long as he is bashing Dublin they dont care

MayoAreMagic

kilns wrote: »

They have been as he does his usual trick and cherry picks stuff out of context, just like he did with Shane Lowry, in general he is very poor at research. But I am not getting into the back and forth on it as its pointless as you or his supporters will see no wrong in it

I did not compare him to Trump I compare the attitide to some that follow him as to they dont care to what he says as long as he is bashing Dublin they dont care

They havent. Generally what happens is somebody starts playing around with the figures, tangling in different things, switching per registered player with per capita when it suits and vice versa, leinster council monies is another, ignoring fixed costs of other counties that dublin dont have is another favourite. In truth these arent proofs, they are muddying the waters. The thing is has has addressed all of these several times.

Re trump, the man is a journalist. He needs to write articles that are accurate. He has done that. For the context of this discussion that is all that is relevant. No comparison is going to change that fact.

Beechwoodspark

Someone compared Dublin to man Utd earlier. About how man Utd and the top tier beat mid level teams.

The analogy isn’t accurate.

However it would work if:

Despite recent and historical successes

The English FA threw huge money at them over and above the rest of the league

The UK govt also threw huge money at them over and above the rest of the league.

They played all the consequential matches at home.

They had a Huge population pool to recruit players from that was factors of 10 + above all the other competition.

Something like that is an accurate analogy

Perhaps ppl can add further advantages that Dublin has over the rest of the counties.

MayoAreMagic

threeball wrote: »

It's over for the GAA. They pumped millions into Dublin hoping to make big returns and it's blown up in their face. From next year they'll be heavily dependent on hurling for revenue. I'm delighted for them. A bigger shower of wasters you could not find. Typical political types who manoeuvred themselves into positions only to make a bollox of everything. Thank you Paraic Duffy et al.

This is the root of what has happened. The gaa fans have been either taken for every penny (Dublin) or taken for granted (the rest).
I wonder how long it took for people to realise that their wages are directly related to money coming in rather than a healthy championship?

In a parallel universe where there wasnt big salaries involved, I would love to see how the football championship would be set up...

kilns

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

They havent. Generally what happens is somebody starts playing around with the figures, tangling in different things, switching per registered player with per capita when it suits and vice versa, leinster council monies is another, ignoring fixed costs of other counties that dublin dont have is another favourite. In truth these arent proofs, they are muddying the waters. The thing is has has addressed all of these several times.

Re trump, the man is a journalist. He needs to write articles that are accurate. He has done that. For the context of this discussion that is all that is relevant. No comparison is going to change that fact.

And Ewan is the upstanding man of truth and clarity in his figures. He is a shock jock journalist and has blatantly lied in other sports, so why would you believe he would not lie when it comes to his pet hate?

The point is he doesnt, I will give you an example outside of GAA as you will always deny it, he wrote about Rafa Nadal and accused him of being on drugs as he is hitting the ball harding and serving faster than ever before, this was at this years Australian Open, it was very easy for his lies to be shown up because the stats showed that 10 years ago he was serving and hitting the ball faster, so a blatant lie to fit his agenda. So why would Dublin GAA be any different?

We can agree to disagree as no piont arguing as we will get nowhere but the man is a proven liar and makes a habit of making personal attacks on good individuals so I wouldnt place too much faith in him

blinding

Gavin is in the driving seat of the Central Bank of Inter County Football .

He will never manage another County because he knows he will never be so cosseted by Dublin's advantages .

Beechwoodspark

blinding wrote: »

Gavin is in the driving seat of the Central Bank of Inter County Football .

He will never manage another County because he knows he will never be so cosseted by Dublin's advantages .

This is it.

Emperors new clothes syndrome.

He knows well himself how well he has it in the Dublin bubble.

Too much like hard work in a “standard” (ie non financial doped) county set up I suspect.

MayoAreMagic

kilns wrote: »

And Ewan is the upstanding man of truth and clarity in his figures. He is a shock jock journalist and has blatantly lied in other sports, so why would you believe he would not lie when it comes to his pet hate?

The point is he doesnt, I will give you an example outside of GAA as you will always deny it, he wrote about Rafa Nadal and accused him of being on drugs as he is hitting the ball harding and serving faster than ever before, this was at this years Australian Open, it was very easy for his lies to be shown up because the stats showed that 10 years ago he was serving and hitting the ball faster, so a blatant lie to fit his agenda. So why would Dublin GAA be any different?

We can agree to disagree as no piont arguing as we will get nowhere but the man is a proven liar and makes a habit of making personal attacks on good individuals so I wouldnt place too much faith in him

Well its not relevant to gaa at all and proves nothing in that debate, but I will give you a response anyway.
Any bit of research into peds in sport would show you that there is every possibility that many top sportsmen are in fact on drugs and have been for years. I accept the point about the serve is wrong, but it is a seriously dodgey subject. There is every possibility that the top guys that we all know, are only there because they havent been caught. A lot of that is going to be, basically whataboutary so on that topic id give him some leeway.
But then that would be judging point in its merits and that isnt what people want when the aim is simply to discredit...

Regardless of the above, the point that because someone was not right with one thing means they are not right with anything, is totally flawed. Nobody else is held to such a standard so why would he be? I have to say I find the attitude of the dubs towards him a little nasty.
Martin Breheny must have the 'mayo are finished because they pushed out their managers' article on ice for 4 years now. But Id seriously hope mayo fans wouldnt treat him like the dubs treat mckenna whem his chance finally arrives.

Fann Linn

Returning to the original topic of this thread, ie, Changes in the GAA, I think once the four semi finalists are taken from the Super 8s, a further open draw should take place.

This would stop the situation we had last year where Galway 'pulled' up in their game against Monaghan.

Salvation Tambourine

Nokotan wrote: »

Is there an article somewhere or can someone here outline exactly what the Dublin senior football team is using their additional funding for that other counties don't have?

I'm under the assumption that other counties have gyms, nutritionists, analysis teams and other facilities like flood light pitches am I wrong is this assumption? What do Dublin have that other counties don't?

There's been a few more mentions of Dublin money since I asked this this morning. I'd one reply about Roscommon's lack of facilities, which seems to be a sorry state of affairs.

Anyone else have anything to add?

beggars_bush wrote: »

They've funding for anything they want

What can they buy that other counties can't?

kilns

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well its not relevant to gaa at all and proves nothing in that debate, but I will give you a response anyway.
Any bit of research into peds in sport would show you that there is every possibility that many top sportsmen are in fact on drugs and have been for years. I accept the point about the serve is wrong, but it is a seriously dodgey subject. There is every possibility that the top guys that we all know, are only there because they havent been caught. A lot of that is going to be, basically whataboutary so on that topic id give him some leeway.
But then that would be judging point in its merits and that isnt what people want when the aim is simply to discredit...

Regardless of the above, the point that because someone was not right with one thing means they are not right with anything, is totally flawed. Nobody else is held to such a standard so why would he be? I have to say I find the attitude of the dubs towards him a little nasty.
Martin Breheny must have the 'mayo are finished because they pushed out their managers' article on ice for 4 years now. But Id seriously hope mayo fans wouldnt treat him like the dubs treat mckenna whem his chance finally arrives.

As I said this subject is currently being debated and has been a thousand times on here so no point going on about it.

My point is he lied on a point to further his writing and agenda, why lie? Why should any other articles be taken as truth if he is a proven liar, The Ped issue may be correct buy you lose all credibility when lying if you cant back that particular point up.

If you claim some peoples attitudes to him are nasty can you agree so too are his, calling Gavin Odius and a low life and Shane Lowry a facist supporter and promoter

Oh come you cant compare McKenna to Breheny, yesterday was the perfect example of McKenna saying what he said about Lowry. It was stupid and done for a reaction. He is a shock jock journalist and they have their fans but Id ready read someone who is impartial

Beechwoodspark

Fann Linn wrote: »

Returning to the original topic of this thread, ie, Changes in the GAA, I think once the four semi finalists are taken from the Super 8s, a further open draw should take place.

This would stop the situation we had last year where Galway 'pulled' up in their game against Monaghan.

Will make damn all difference to overall winner if Dublin issues are not addressed.

blanch152

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Ah would you stop.

If you can't see that having more professional coaches causes a more professional approach to the game, better skills training, nuitrition, s&c, etc you really are clueless about sport.

That depends. If, like in Kerry, that resource is directed into centres of excellence, then you will see a dividend at inter-county level - the unprecedented run of minor wins being the evidence.

However, if the resource is directed at mass juvenile participation, and every kid of varying ability and skill is getting that resource, then you won't see a direct dividend at inter-county level.

Fann Linn

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Will make damn all difference to overall winner if Dublin issues are not addressed.

Well if you're hoping for Dublin to be split into 2/4/6/8/10 you may as well forget it. There's a greater chance of Carlow winning an AI before that happens.

kilns

if in 2/3 years time Dublin have the same level of domination then there can be some merits in the arguments of those who are adamant that only funding is the issue for Dublins success and is causing the gap to widen.

However, I would argue that Dublin has had a core group of fantastic players since Jim Gavin took over (17 players who played in the 2013 all ireland final are still in the current squad)

Below you will see a break down of the average age of the team profile

2013 AI Starting 15 average age 24.66, total players used average 25.2

2018 AI Starting 15 average age 26.2, total players used average 26.9

2019 Leinster Final starting 15 average 27.2, total players used average 27.7

According to Gaelic stats the peak years of a Gaelic Footballer is between 23 and 27 which would explain the current dominance, there then is a dramatic drop off from 28 onwards.

So only going by statistics, the football team should be due to decline from their sky high standards from next year onwards, it will be interesting to see and we should see teams come closer to Dublin for example Kerry who as a group will be moving into their prime years as a team

RoyalCelt

Fann Linn wrote: »

So Mick O Dwyer can be successful but Gavin can't.

That's it in a nutshell.

He can. When he's finished with Dublin after he does the 10 in a row let's see him do the rounds with counties like meath, Kildare, roscommon and Fermanagh. Let's see him do it then. If he does he can throw his hat into the best ever manager ever. I have a hard time believing there isn't a lot of other managers who could win AI's with this Dublin team.

I wish I could wake up in 3 or 4 years time when the gap is just as big so we can stop this once in a generation group of players. Although it's now obvious it's 2 gens merged at this stage. By then it will be 3 and quite obvious it will go on for ever under current structures.

kilns

RoyalCelt wrote: »

He can. When he's finished with Dublin after he does the 10 in a row let's see him do the rounds with counties like meath, Kildare, roscommon and Fermanagh. Let's see him do it then. If he does he can throw his hat into the best ever manager ever. I have a hard time believing there isn't a lot of other managers who could win AI's with this Dublin team.

I wish I could wake up in 3 or 4 years time when the gap is just as big so we can stop this once in a generation group of players. Although it's now obvious it's 2 gens merged at this stage. By then it will be 3 and quite obvious it will go on for ever under current structures.

see above

ThunbergsAreGo

Fann Linn wrote: »

Well if you're hoping for Dublin to be split into 2/4/6/8/10 you may as well forget it. There's a greater chance of Carlow winning an AI before that happens.

Might as well change this to "Changes in the GAA to stop Dublin Winning"

Any attempt to talk about something different is just brought back to the same thing

Beechwoodspark

Fann Linn wrote: »

Well if you're hoping for Dublin to be split into 2/4/6/8/10 you may as well forget it. There's a greater chance of Carlow winning an AI before that happens.

It’ll happen at some stage unless the crazy inequalities are addressed.

kilns

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

It’ll happen at some stage unless the crazy inequalities are addressed.

The only reason you would split Dublin is due to population and so therefore these inequalities have existed in the GAA for the last 125 years but Dublin currently have a team which is winning so lets split them up now........