Hyundai is now the most reliable car maker

AlphaOmega1

they're still kinda sh!te though, boring and soulless

ba_barabus

AlphaOmega1 wrote: »

they're still kinda sh!te though, boring and soulless

Most people want that however

z0oT

Philb76 wrote: »

On a slightly more serious note another poster said roughly 10grand between a golf and leaf and I have drove both friend has a 2018 leaf but it's the old model got a grant and scrappage which brought the price to 24000euro but doing sum maths if you change the car after 4years and doing average miles thers no saving

It depends on how long you keep it or mileage you do in the year.

Taking myself as an example @ ~30k km per year, and excluding servicing here's some numbers below. Figures are rough for the Leaf's consumption and the kWh rate, I just pulled the first thing that came up from google.

Cost of running a Leaf:
30000km / 100 * 15kWh/100km * €0.14/kWh / 0.9 = €700/yr
(The 0.9 is to a rough number for Charging inefficiencies)

Cost of running my own petrol engined Car:
30000km/100 * 5.5l/100km * €1.45 = €2392/yr

Gives a saving of €1483 per year which is pretty good, obviously it goes up if the mileage goes up. It's far more than buying a diesel engine vs petrol engine would save you.

Let's say the cost of the EV is €5k more expensive new, then it takes just over two years to break even using the above example, with the savings after that.

I should be driving an EV at my mileage, but the range, lack of charging points, and charging time would turn me off them, a PHEV is what I really want for my next car.

Zubeneschamali

AlphaOmega1 wrote: »

they're still kinda sh!te though, boring and soulless

Of course they are - they are trying to be Toyota, not BMW, so boring, soulless sh!te is what they are aiming for.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

...........anyone can do a few simple sums:

Less depreciation, less maintenance, less insurance, less tax, less tolls and almost free fuel. Your own "petrol station" installed at your house for free. Save yourself thousands and thousands compared with a diesel. But sure if you don't want the savings, stay with diesel...

At 35mpg one can do 5,000 miles for €1000 at €1.50/l.
10,000 miles for €2000 at €1.50/l.
20,000 miles for €4000 at €1.50/l.

As the mileage increase for most folk the EV appeals less as many of the trips are likely to involve different start and end points and so charger planning is required which many can't be bothered doing or the inconvenience is potentially too time consuming (charging anywhere but home during the day takes time)

Also many folk doing some miles for work get generous enough mileage payments ...........€4k for the first 5500 kms

So really, the financial appeal for EV isn't wonderful, especially if you end up in a Leaf, which is a rank enough car to be fair.

Silent Running

AlphaOmega1 wrote: »

they're still kinda sh!te though, boring and soulless

Each to their own. I find BMW, VW, Audi, Skoda... etc boring looking cars. They seem to be absolutely terrified of alienating their customer base with some injection of modern design in their cars. Models go from one iteration to the next with only the mildest facelifts, and it has got to the stage where current models age very quickly.

At least Mercedes make their new models actually look like they had designed a new model from the ground up (even if they didn't). You can criticise far eastern cars for being bland and boring, but at least the refresh their designs, and you can't say that a Hyundai of today resembles a 15 year old model.

I know that daring to criticise BMW in any way will have the fanboys howling, but they do nothing for me, they never have. That's just my personal taste. I'm not a fanboy for any brand by the way. I've owned most brands in my 43 year driving career, but never a BMW. In the '70's, I had a loaner of a 2002ti for a month. I was glad to get back into my own car, and I've never considered a BMW since then. One of my sons is a fanboy though. Takes all sorts.

AlphaOmega1

Silent Running wrote: »

Each to their own. I find BMW, VW, Audi, Skoda... etc boring looking cars. They seem to be absolutely terrified of alienating their customer base with some injection of modern design in their cars. Models go from one iteration to the next with only the mildest facelifts, and it has got to the stage where current models age very quickly.

At least Mercedes make their new models actually look like they had designed a new model from the ground up (even if they didn't). You can criticise far eastern cars for being bland and boring, but at least the refresh their designs, and you can't say that a Hyundai of today resembles a 15 year old model.

Personally I like the subtle changes in design as time goes on, I would regard it as one of the reasons Hyundai makes soulless cars. Design shouldn't be just how much plastic and fake aero can we stick on. Also one thing that irks me about hyundai is the flip flopping of nomenclature is it by numbers? is it by name? How many levels of cross over do you need also? And no attempt at a sports car in a while, even the genesis coupé (i know it wasn't available here) has died.

unkel

z0oT wrote: »

Cost of running a Leaf:
30000km / 100 * 15kWh/100km * €0.14/kWh / 0.9 = €700/yr

Except that most EV owners charge their cars at night rate of €0.07/kWh, so you would spend just €350/yr on electricity for your 30k km

And in case some folks don't know - all public charging in Ireland is still completely free. There is a fast charger around the corner from me at my local shopping centre. I drive past there several times a day. When my car is near empty and there is nobody charging, I hop in there for a quick and free top op

unkel

Augeo wrote: »

At 35mpg one can do 5,000 miles for €1000 at €1.50/l.
10,000 miles for €2000 at €1.50/l.
20,000 miles for €4000 at €1.50/l.

As the mileage increase for most folk the EV appeals less

It's the opposite. The more you drive the bigger the savings. The moderator of the EV forums does about 60k km per year iirc. Costs about €600 per year in electricity and it would have cost about €8000 in petrol or €6000 in diesel :eek:

Obviously EVs don't suit everybody. If you regularly drive more in one day than the range of your car, you depend on the public charging network. I would not recommend you buy an EV at the moment as the Irish public charging network is not good and it is getting worse by the day (this will be relieved soon with the European Ionity network being installed this year and next)

And to give people an idea of ranges of EVs - the Hyundai Kona EV is launched this month. With its 64kWh battery it has a real life range of close to 500km (as per the new WLTP standard - the same standard that will soon make all new petrol and diesel cars at least about €3k more expensive because this new measurement is much stricter and more realistic)

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

.............

As the mileage increase for most folk the EV appeals less as many of the trips are likely to involve different start and end points and so charger planning is required which many can't be bothered doing or the inconvenience is potentially too time consuming (charging anywhere but home during the day takes time)

.................

unkel wrote: »

It's the opposite. .........

You chopped off the reasons why from my post and then went on to paraphrase them

monkeybutter

unkel wrote: »

MMM, yes

The cheapest second hand Ioniq EV on Donedeal, a 171 is EUR27k
The cheapest second hand Ioniq EV on AutoTrader, a 162 is GBP23k (EUR26k plus expenses to get it over here)

I bought my 171 brand new in January of last year for EUR25k

mmmmm no

not one of those sellers is private that i can see


so unless you are a garage i doubt anyones gonna hand you over 25k for it


try and sell it, oh wait has anyone even sold one second hand?

liam7831

Is this another thread about shi#ty electric cars ?

ELM327

liam7831 wrote: »

Is this another thread about shi#ty electric cars ?

No this is a thread about great electric cars.
Mainly the Ioniq on thread so far.

AlphaOmega1

Buying a hyundai is like buying a non-official jersey to support your team, yeah it does the same thing, but you're still a goon

Conceptually it's no surprise. Hyundai used Mitsubishi engines from the 80s and well into the 90s if not the 00s.

Their own stuff is certainly no worse than most of the competition these days and the older stuff is well up there with the Jap yokes in terms of reliability.

unkel

Augeo wrote: »

Conceptually it's no surprise. Hyundai used Mitsubishi engines from the 80s and well into the 90s if not the 00s.

Their own stuff is certainly no worse than most of the competition these days

My theory is that there is a very aggressive yet patient long term strategy in place here. If they can take the global market share that Toyota once had, in a decade or so maybe longer, but do so with high margin cars, they will make enormous profits

I couldn't believe it myself that only BMW has higher margins than Hyundai (from all the mass manufacturers)

I was also quite surprised at the prevalence of both Kia and Hyundai cars in the USA when I was there last month

unkel

unkel wrote: »

............

I was also quite surprised at the prevalence of both Kia and Hyundai cars in the USA when I was there last month

Indeed.
Hyundai had a decent presence in America back in the mid 90s even. The Sonata was quite popular there. To be fair many American folk on modest incomes do travel quite a bit by road so comfy, relatively large and valuesome cars were very sellable there.

Nowadays the Sante Fe is much loved over there as well as the various sedan type yokes they peddle.

thetimeisnow

Trying to decide between the Tuscan i40 and Kona

Philb76

All nice cars really like the look of the kona

Silent Running

thetimeisnow wrote: »

Trying to decide between the Tuscan i40 and Kona

For me, the Tucson is the best bang for your buck, if that's important to you.

Zubeneschamali

Silent Running wrote: »

For me, the Tucson is the best bang for your buck, if that's important to you.

Only possible reason for looking at these.

Zubeneschamali

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Of course they are - they are trying to be Toyota, not BMW, so boring, soulless sh!te is what they are aiming for.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Only possible reason for looking at these.

Interesting posts considering you iirc drive a diesel Octavia VRS

Which is as soulless as anything from Asia but also has go faster bits stuck on in the factory.

Zubeneschamali

Augeo wrote: »

Interesting posts considering you iirc drive a diesel Octavia VRS

Which is as soulless as anything from Asia but also has go faster bits stuck on in the factory.

My Octavia is a very effective motorway cruiser - as you say, not very involving, but big, brisk, comfy and well equipped. I knew that before I bought it.

bazz26

thetimeisnow wrote: »

Trying to decide between the Tuscan i40 and Kona

i40 is ancient at this stage and must be due for replacement or retirement any time now. THe only ones who buy them now are the AGS. Look at the Kia Optima, it's mechanically the same car as the i40 but got a major overhaul last year to freshen it up and it's prettier looking. Tucson facelift is due to be launched very soon which includes a new range of engines, I'd hold off until then or look at the facelift Kia Sportage, again it's mechanically identical to the Tucson. Kona is the newest of the bunch but is smaller than the Tucson and similar in size to a Nissan Juke.

Autochange

I used to work in a high volume Hyundai dealership. Nasty cheap rubbish.

Zubeneschamali

Autochange wrote: »

I used to work in a high volume Hyundai dealership. Nasty cheap rubbish.

That used to be true.

galwaytt

As someone who's well known German brand just ate it's own engine at 89k FSH miles all i can say is...........I aspire to a Hyundai or Kia.

As for clutches, well people seem to readily forget all the VAG and other DMF issues that have roamed the planet for the last 20 years. I'd happily suffer a simple clutch swap every now & then.


Look at this pic: when was the last time you heard of any mass-produced car suffering something as fundatmental as this: a valve seat coming out of a head (and now I've found out of course that it's not rare in my brand car at all...)




In retaliation, I've just bought a bangernomics 06 Clio with 197k kms on it.

unkel

Oh no, caused by IMS bearing on the 996?

galwaytt

unkel wrote: »

Oh no, caused by IMS bearing on the 996?

Close, but no cigar. IMS was perfect. Just the head itself failing....typical: and at 4.5yrs ownership, I was thinking all those 996 horror stories were fables. :rolleyes:

Silly, silly me.:rolleyes:

JohnBoy26

Autochange wrote: »

I used to work in a high volume Hyundai dealership. Nasty cheap rubbish.

15 years ago maybe, not these days. Even then im not sure i'd call them nasty or rubbish. Cheap yes and they were behind the more established makers of the time but they were reliable and pleasant to drive compared to other cheap cars of the time like the offerings from daewoo.

Autochange

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

That used to be true.

I left the dealership in late 2016

unkel

Autochange wrote: »

I left the dealership in late 2016

Too early to see the EVs arriving so

Autochange

unkel wrote: »

Too early to see the EVs arriving so

Exactly. I know nothing of the EV models. Combustion only.
Best of luck.

road_high

_Brian wrote: »

About 8-10 years ago I had my Passat with an auto electric specialist locally, really good lad, does good work.

I asked him about reliability issues with cars and he said when people realised just how good Korean cars were getting he’d be out of business.

I drove an i40 on a 250km journey once, 14 month old car. I would never doubt their reliability but my god it was a horrible car to drive, light, floaty, vague steering, no driver feel at all.
That was maybe 3 years ago, maybe they sorted these issues since but I was terribly disappointed.

I had the same experience of an I30 diesel 4 years ago. The car felt very light and tinny- compared to its peer Focus and Golf. The interior is definitely lower rent too and was pretty gutless too.

Philb76

The fit and finish of any modern ford is absolutely disgraceful and I'm talking about the latest ones friend has a kuga and the interior has been stuck with something like dodgy glue any ford owner's give the armrest and a light shake doesn't even come close to Hyundai