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Shed build - help
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listermint wrote: »What, no porch deck! i expected a porch deck with handmade seat swing
Yeah, I'm currently torturing myself about whether to attempt a door opening on to the deck, cos otherwise I'll have to go out, down, and up another set of steps to use the deck. I really hate hinged things.
I sought the advice of my local decorating shop about the steps, he suggested decking stain with embedded grit, but it's only available in very dark colours, and I'm not quite ready for black steps yet.
So if it ever stops raining I'm going to see what I can do with Danish oil, a random orbital sander and some kind of buffing drill attachment (Halfords?).0 -
Been quite busy late. Couple of posts incoming....
First, the door. I previously made a frame from construction framing timber, which was a terrible idea, and hung a cheap B&Q door. It looked bad and didn't close properly.
Whilst taking a break from Shed things I made a chicken coop, partly using plywood joined with glue and brad nails. It was a nice experience, so I decided to continue the experiment and make a door frame and door out of plywood.
Now, plywood comes in various grades. The "WBP" and "Marine" grading actually applies to the glue layers, not the wood plies. Marine is the same as WBP except that it is guaranteed to be free of voids in the glue layers.
The marine ply you can get from builders merchants is usually not proper boatbuilding quality, and that's mostly down to the wood used in the plies. Some of it is "hardwood faced", but as soon as you cut it you're through to the softwood plies and that can cause issues. For that reason it is often marked "not suitable for cutting" or some such.
So I decided to go for Joubert Marine ply from paneldespot (http://www.paneldepot.ie/sheet_ply_marine.html), which is Okoume hardwood throughout, and I've laminated it myself with Titebond II, which is worse than the glue used in the plies themselves but ought to be OK.
I haven't decided what to finish it with. I have some outdoor satin varnish, but for now I've put on a couple of coats of Danish oil.
Anyway, the plywood allows me to create interesting features, like the removable "locking module" which I can slide out if I want to change the arrangement of locking things.
Making a door and frame with acceptable tolerances in a opening which is out of true in every conceivable way is hard. There are various wood shims which will eventually be covered by some combination of tape, filler, glue and cladding.
I ended up with 2-3mm clearance on all sides, with consistency within 1mm on each given side. It's fine.
The requirement for the locking mechanism was "convenient security". I want to be able to get in and out without keys, and know that if the door is closed then casual robbery is impossible.
So in July 2019 I punted some money at an Indiegogo crowd funded smart lock called "Fido", which arrived in November 2019.
It's controlled with a smartphone app called "YEEUU", and a company of that name seems to be trading sort-of through Facebook and indiegogo, but I don't know whether it's actually for sale at this point.
There are fobs as backup, but the usual way is thumbprint recognition. Yay, the Chinese government has my thumb prints! But it works.
Here's a video.
The door obviously isn't finished yet, the proper stops still have to go on and I need to fill the void on the right with insulation and add the last sheet of ply, fill the tops and bottoms, and add draught stripping.
The odd split/recessed design on the front serves several purposes: it shelters the electronic lock from drips, and it allows 100mm woodfibre insulation over about 2/3 of the door area whilst keeping the lock-side to about 50mm which means it doesn't catch against the frame when opening, and allows "normal" locks to be fitted.
Oh, and I added a Nest doorbell which does remote two-way video/audio, face recognition, intruder detection and stuff. That's wired through a bell transformer.
Full size pics on imgur https://imgur.com/a/stAnpqi
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On to lighting.
It would have been more sensible to focus on windows as a source of light, but after the pain of making a door I needed a bit of a break from things with hinges. Plus, my boards username justifies a bit of effort.
I suffer a lot from lack of energy in the winter. I wouldn't necessarily call it full blown S.A.D., but I get nothing done except work and sleep when we're not on daylight savings time.
Now that LEDs are so powerful, I wondered whether I could create daylight levels in the Shed, to delay the onset of whatever hormone crap has me sleepy at 7pm in winter.
So, what are the most powerful LEDs on sale? I found some 24v "tunable white" strips which are rated at 19.2W/m power consumption and claim to put out 2760 lumens/m. (*)
https://www.hiline-lighting.co.uk/gb/tunable-white-led-tape/562-tunable-white-led-strip-120-2in1-ip00-5060440713859.html
If I ran these LED strips along the upper wall plate, I could get maybe 24,000 lumens of output, which is equivalent to about 1.5kW of incandescent lighting, and if I bounced the light off the ceiling it wouldn't look like an operating theatre. Right?
I wired each strip differently. One strip runs continuously through 10mm holes in the rafters. That will probably cause overheating and premature LED burnout, so the second strip was cut into 500mm sections and soldered with triple-core connecting wire running through the same type of 10mm hole. I'll see which lives longer. The strips sit in alu profiles which do a nice job of diffusing the light when looking directly at the strips, which will be important when the mezzanine floor goes in.
The LEDs are powered by a 300W transformer and controlled by a wired Zigbee controller and a handy little remote with various colour temperature controls and stored presets.
The effect is decently bright but not quite as daylighty as I was hoping. A free Android app tells me that I'm getting about 100lux with the door closed, and although I'm not sure it's accurate, it's about the same lux level as my one of the corridors in my house in summer daytime.
I might add some more task lighting later on down the line. At that stage my winter heat requirements will probably be met by simply turning on the lights.
(*) I've since discovered that there are LED strips twice as powerful as this, but I'm not changing them now.
The following pics were taken with the door closed and as mentioned, there are no windows yet.
Full size pics: https://imgur.com/a/IMWZFOS
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Maybe this?
https://ie.rs-online.com/web/p/door-seals/1752561/
...and then rout an 8mm slot, maybe 2mm deep?0 -
listermint wrote: »On that im at an array wall of ones the same as you. Seen many variants used on builds on youtube and the likes, push strips, double strips, single strips.
I think if i recall the restoration couple he used a nice clean one on his Oak door that he built himself, looked really professional and clean.
Ah, at about 5:50
edit: no, this attempt looks like a failure, must be another vid
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OK, so they push into what look like square-edged slots in the door stops.
Only the bottom one didn't work, but having an exposed seal on the threshold is madness when you can just recess it into the bottom of the door.
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It's a big week in Shed world and I thought I'd write a post to get my head straight.
The triple glazed IGUs (insulated glass units) for the French doors and picture window are being manufactured as I type this, and I've materials arriving to make a floating mezzanine floor.
Figuring out how to make windows has been one of the more demanding aspects of this project.
Putty is a thing of the past except for heritage projects, there are various "glazing systems" used now, which use different permutations of hybrid sealants and adhesive glazing tape.
I am going for something close to the Hodgson "D3 Drained Security Glazing System", which uses adhesive tapes under compression to provide a watertight (and hopefully airtight) seal, and sealant only for the frame joints.
It's critical to ensure that water doesn't collect around the base of the IGU even if the seals fail, as that will cause the unit to fail, so I'll be drilling holes through the bottom of the frames, draining to the outside behind the cladding. This is made possible because I made the frames such that the glass is located "outboard" of the walls, with the battened cladding ultimately coming out flush with the frames.
The glass will be located and supported by hardwood blocks which come in various thicknesses. I have them all, they're cheap and should be handy for general shimming jobs.
I think professionally made windows use glazing pins to locate the glass, but I'm not planning on using those. This may prove a mistake.
I have a set of of vacuum lifters from Screwfix plus some super tough glazing shovels to help manouvre the IGUs, which are absurdly heavy. Both the French doors and picture window have a a 6/14/6/14/6 specification (6mm glass panes with 14mm warm edge spacers), so 18mm of glass in total, and the picture window unit should weigh close to 100kg.
The tape is interesting. It's quite high density and to achieve a watertight seal it requires 20% compression, which requires 1.1kg of force per cm2 of tape, which works out at about almost 800kg of force. Yeah, so that seems like a bit of a challenge.
But interestingly, triple glazing is relatively cheap. I'm getting about 3.5sqm and it's only costing about 700 quid.
As for the mezzanine floor, that's going to be made of 3x3 PAO sandwiched between 9mm birch ply with plenty of blocking to spread the load. I have no idea whether it will be stiff enough, but I'm planning to incorporate a floating structural ladder anchored to the ridge beam to help out.
It should all be over by the end of the month, bar the cladding. Hopefully I will still have all my fingers.
I am deep down the rabbit hole here. If anyone has any tips, I'm all ears. 0 -
Triple glazing is in.
The French doors were easy enough. The picture window was a two person job so I called in a favour before the household visit lockdown came in at midnight.
As expected, generating sufficient compression for the glazing tape on the big pane was tricky, required the use of reversed clamps and large bits of wood spanning the inside of the shed, applying maybe 100kg of pressure to each of about ten areas on the perimeter in turn. Once it stuck though, it stuck.
I'm not sure I like the glazing tape that much. It's certainly clean, but I can't help thinking that the skilled application of some black Tek 7 might have achieved the same or better results. Or an incredible mess.
I still have to add the inside stops and seals, but it's now a balmy 20C in there with a small convection heater on lowest setting. It'll take some time to warm up the structure (a couple of tonnes of wood inside the external insulation) and then I'll gather some data from the Govee monitors to work out how well it's performing.
One useful thing for anyone doing this for the first time like me: account for the fact that the rubber sealant on the glazed units protrudes unevenly from the edges of the glass for 1-2mm. This means that whereas I'd planned on using 5mm (bottom) and 3mm (top and side) setting blocks I ended up with 5mm and 1mm or nothing. It's fine, it works, but it was bloody close.
Anyway, I'm delighted with the results. Probably cost me about €1200 all in for the plywood, glazing, tape and tooling. Dunno what that would cost new, but it would be more.
Nearly there...
More and bigger pics here: https://imgur.com/a/TOeLJFx0 -
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The 38mm dowels I ordered turned out to be 44mm.
Still, there's no such thing as too strong a ladder right?
I couldn't be bothered to route out 22 perfect circles so I just used two 140mm Spax screws and glue for each 380mm rung.
Uprights are 4x3 PAO with 6mm roundover.
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Put up the ladder and framed the mezzanine floor.
Most of it is held together with 140mm Spax screws, apart from the ladder which is bolted to the wall with stainless lag screws, and the outer triple beam bit which is glued for stiffness and to avoid visible screws.
The floor frame is reasonably stiff although obviously gets springier to towards the centre of the unsupported leading edge, hopefully the birch ply will help a bit more. If necessary I can add a wire rope to the beam.
None of it touches the floor - all the load is transferred to the ring beam. This is important as the lower floor joists are only 150mm - it's all been about conserving internal headroom.
To get the long screws into the close framing I used one of these:
Anyway, all straightforward enough.
Onwards and upwards, literally.
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Right, so the ply didn't help the deflection, 6mm with me sitting on the unsupported leading edge, with or without ply, which amounts to 1/500 deflection. 1/300 is generally considered OK, so it'll do for the intended purpose and I won't bother doing the underneath, might add some more recessed lighting instead.
I made a sliding, double hinged access hatch. It offers various permutations of finger-trapping goodness.
Birch ply is not the prettiest but it's super strong and looks OK with a roundover applied to the edges with a trimmer router. Anyone got ideas of what to treat it with? I have some Owatrol D1 oil which I might slap on to stop it picking up dirt.
Decking and flooring next. I'll do the full 3-stage Owatrol treatment on the Bangkirai decking and then decide whether to use it inside too. I definitely don't want proper engineered flooring as it'll look too housey, but I reckon plywood is too fragile for foot traffic.
https://imgur.com/a/x1xVgns
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Posh decking prep!
So I went down the full 3-stage Owatrol route (Prepdeck, Net-trol, D-1 oil) with the Bangkiri decking.
This is an alternative to just letting it weather for a year and then oiling it. The reason I didn't want to do that is because there are reports of this type of decking cupping and splitting if not properly installed and treated. That risk is made worse if each face performs differently e.g. through moisture absorption, so to make both faces the same I had to treat before installation. Also, it means that when I'm done, I'm done. At least for a couple of years.
There's only about 7sqm of decking to do but as usual, it took ages.
Here are the instructions for the 2-stage stripping process. That took about a day spread over the working week.
https://www.owatrolusa.com/how-to-guides/remove-mill-glaze/
Then the oiling, which took another half day. It's done wet-on-wet over a couple of hours, with a wipe down after a 30 minutes break at the end to remove excess. So two batches took half a day.
Below pics are of the decking before and after the oiling.
I'm happy enough with the results but no-f'ing way I'm doing twice that effort for the flooring, so I ordered some jumbo sheets of 12mm birch ply which I intend to treat with water-based matt poly varnish.
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listermint wrote: »jesus thats alot of effort = Personally i would have just gone with oiling both sides properly and well. Cupping has nothing to do with glaze on the wood. Its as you know wood drying out quickly. Oil applied correctly slows that right down or stops it fully for a long period of time.
The prep stuff for me is unnecessary , i've been guilty on plenty of projects of over egging the research and not doing enough of the 'doing'.
Yeah, well someone has to follow the instructions, right?
I really should have done one of them the lazy way to compare.0 -
Fitted the decking. Need to put more screws in but first I have a question.
When two boards meet on a 2 inch joist, there is not enough "meat" to screw down the boards directly down into that joist without splitting the ends. So should the joist be "loose" at those ends and just screwed everywhere else? Or screwed down at an angle (but then the heads won't be straight!)?
Anyway, I first did a fresh soaking of ProTim on the joists, then upholstered with leftover membrane. This is no doubt going to send listermint over the edge, but remember that I can't really ever replace these joists - they are the ends of the 4.8m joists which are slung under the ring beam of the shed. So they need to be protected to the maximum.
I used 5mm spacing between boards and 1-2mm at the ends. This is on the basis that wood expands very much perpendicular to the grain, and hardly at all along the grain.
I tried to eliminate all showing of the ribbed underside (*) and almost achieved it, except for at the corners. To get the ends hidden I made wider end boards by cutting and glueing two boards to get an additional 21mm of width.
Also, I found that pre-drilling hardwood is absolutely essential even with these self-drilling stainless Spax flooring screws.
(*) there is a 10-page argument on the Screwfix forums about which way up decking boards are supposed to go. I choose ribs down. It's an ecumenical matter.
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listermint wrote: »If I get your question. You need to but in extra joist either side of that joist to screws the board down on to. If a joist is not thick enough then you add thickness with more joist one or either side. This is common on all floorings definitely where boards meet above and there's little or no joist below.
It can be just a small section of timber to the joist you don't have to put a full length in.
Ok cool. Like these I made to space out the side trim so I could use complete board widths.
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Currently working on the cladding, was going to post when finished but there's been discussion in the Garden Room thread about cladding so thought people might be interested.
This is bandsawn larch with a double bevelled profile in mixed widths, with Sioo:X factory applied. It's been a bit neglected over the winter but still seems in reasonable condition.
The top and bottom cuts are rough, will be tracksawed when finished.
External corners are mitred at 45 degrees.
Fixings are stainless steel Spax facade screws on bevelled hardwood counterbattens.
Click for big versions.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUiz6g2tJgo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhLuzor_WVI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hre9p7-gkU8
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