Problem with new purchase

JaMarcus

Hi,

We bought a used 151 Golf from a main dealer 4 months ago. It had about 55k KM on it, and came with a 1 year warranty.

After a couple of weeks, the breaks were really loud/squealing so we took it back and they said the break pads were worn, so replaced them for us. A few red flags, as this should have been caught when they inspected/serviced the car before putting it out for sale in the yard.

Now 4 months after buying it, having trouble with the clutch. In high gears (4/5/6), going above 2000 RPM causes the RPM dial to shoot up to nearly 3000 RPM or more VERY rapidly. The car then revs really loudly.

We dropped it in to their service center today, and they said the clutch is burnt out and something about a bearing under the gear box. We were also told that none of this is covered under warranty as it's "wear and tear" parts that aren't covered.

Very disheartened to be told it'll cost over €1100 to fix despite only having the car a few months and putting very little milage on it. My partner is a very accomplished driver and certainly doesn't abuse the clutch (I say this because I rarely if ever drive it, she uses it as her daily car) and the car only drives about 15-20km a day on average.

Do we have any comeback here or are we out of luck?

Cordell

Normally you don't but try your luck. If they give you nothing then take it to a indy, no reason to pay dealership prices when out of warranty.
Although clutch failure at this mileage is not normal wear and tear, it's either a hidden defect or (really-really) bad driving.

autumnbelle

You have still 8 months warranty is it not covered under that

JaMarcus

autumnbelle wrote: »

You have still 8 months warranty is it not covered under that

Been told that our warranty will not cover a clutch or gearbox issue.

wonski

JaMarcus wrote: »

Been told that our warranty will not cover a clutch or gearbox issue.

Yet they covered brake pads which is also wearable item. Probably because it wasn't that expensive...

Is it the manufacturer warranty or dealership warranty that you have?

TheShow

Check the warranty, might still be manufacturer warranty,.
Clutches, brake pads etc are not normally covered under warranties, however a clutch going after 55k km does not sound right to me. Sounds like your car had issues with it which might be the reason the previous owner got rid.

You could try contacting VW directly, not sure if it will get you anywhere, but worth a shot. I'll doubt you will get any traction from the dealer, but if you don't ask you don't get. he who shouts loudest and all that....

bazz26

You can burn a clutch out in 10 mins if you try hard enough so 55k km is plenty of time for a clutch to go.

colm_mcm

Chances of the clutch being on the way out when it was sold?

JaMarcus

wonski wrote: »

Yet they covered brake pads which is also wearable item. Probably because it wasn't that expensive...

Is it the manufacturer warranty or dealership warranty that you have?

I think it's a manufacturer warranty - here's what it says - I've only included the points I think are necessary or somewhat releveant:

Used card you can trust. Guaranteed

Your Volkswagen Approved WeltAuto Used Car is guaranteed to be from from faults for a period of 12 months (or longer if you opted to extend the cover to 24 or 36 months).

We are sure you will understand that normal wear & tear and damage caused by overstressing, incorrect handling or inadmissable modifications are not covered by this Warranty.

All replacement parts and labour will be paid including batteries & exhaust systems (incl. the catalytic converter) but with the following exceptions:

...

3. Any mechanical failure resulting from normal wear and tear.

...

11. The replacement of consumable items including (but are not limited to) oil seals, gaskets, external linkages, clutch friction plates, spark plugs, ignition leads, re-charging air conditioners, fuel, lubricants and coolants.

...

13. Any items that require replacement as part of normal vehicle maintenance, including (but not limited to) spark plugs and leads, glow plugs, belts, filters, hoses, brake and clutch linings, brake pads, disc rotors and or disc and drum and machining, batteries and globes.

Rob Thomas

Mileage is still very low for the clutch to be shot. The car is only 3 years old too so I would be getting on to VW Ireland if the dealer wasn't going to cover it. I've known them to make goodwill gestures in cases like this but it's very much a case by case basis.

If the car has a full VW service history that should help with VW Ireland.

I wouldn't let the garage off too easy in this case.

wonski

It is not just clutch, but also bearing under the gearbox according to OP, so this at least should be replaced, or not?

rex-x

wonski wrote: »

It is not just clutch, but also bearing under the gearbox according to OP, so this at least should be replaced, or not?

That will be the clutch release bearing, also not covered as its part of the clutch. 1100 is cheap for a dealer clutch and flywheel job to be honest. If the garage were any good they would cover it though

dense

rex-x wrote: »

That will be the clutch release bearing, also not covered as its part of the clutch. 1100 is cheap for a dealer clutch and flywheel job to be honest. If the garage were any good they would cover it though

If not the OP might suggest the dealer meeting them half way as a goodwill gesture.


Cluches do wear, a lot depends on who was driving it for the first 55k kilometres.

dense

JaMarcus wrote: »

Hi,

We bought a used 151 Golf from a main dealer 4 months ago. It had about 55k KM on it, and came with a 1 year warranty.

After a couple of weeks, the breaks were really loud/squealing so we took it back and they said the break pads were worn, so replaced them for us. A few red flags, as this should have been caught when they inspected/serviced the car before putting it out for sale in the yard.

Now 4 months after buying it, having trouble with the clutch. In high gears (4/5/6), going above 2000 RPM causes the RPM dial to shoot up to nearly 3000 RPM or more VERY rapidly. The car then revs really loudly.

We dropped it in to their service center today, and they said the clutch is burnt out and something about a bearing under the gear box. We were also told that none of this is covered under warranty as it's "wear and tear" parts that aren't covered.

Very disheartened to be told it'll cost over €1100 to fix despite only having the car a few months and putting very little milage on it. My partner is a very accomplished driver and certainly doesn't abuse the clutch (I say this because I rarely if ever drive it, she uses it as her daily car) and the car only drives about 15-20km a day on average.

Do we have any comeback here or are we out of luck?

No comeback as far as I can see.
Out of interest what distance has it covered since you bought it?

JaMarcus

dense wrote: »

No comeback as far as I can see.
Out of interest what distance has it covered since you bought it?

I would say around 6,000 km.

The dealer is to ring me back tomorrow so hopefully they can do something.

Thanks everyone for the advice/information so far.

Toyotafanboi

It's such a grey area.

The symptoms you have described are classic clutch slip from a worn clutch plate and really the only thing that can wear down a clutch plate is excessive use/ driver error. Of course there could be a manufacturing defect with it too, but generally a manufacturing defect causing a clutch plate to fail will not give you clutch slip as a symptom.

I've said in threads before that I've seen on multiple occasions, people who've been driving decades, trade in a perfectly good car with no issues and wear the clutch out in their new car on the way home. I'm not saying this has 100% happened to you but it does happen. Usually in these instances we'd do something for the customer, the gesture itself depending on the circumstance whether it be a used car, new car etc.

That reads like you've got a DasWelt warranty which isn't going to cover this but I'd say you could push the garage to do something for you here out of their own pocket, even a 50/50 split would be ok I suppose.

What car did you have before the Golf? Was it pereol or diesel? Is the Golf petrol or diesel? What mileage have you put on the Golf since you got it?

dense

JaMarcus wrote: »

I would say around 6,000 km.

The dealer is to ring me back tomorrow so hopefully they can do something.

Thanks everyone for the advice/information so far.

Press them gently on the possibility of a goodwill gesture.


But that works both ways, if say you'd dealt with them over the years it might happen, just a might though, if you're a newcomer they're probably thinking they've lost any potential business with you in the future anyway, and they're going to be out of pocket on top of that.


If they refuse point blank no harm getting a goodwill request considered by VW themselves.


Maybe could do with some good PR after recent events.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

JaMarcus

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

It's such a grey area.

The symptoms you have described are classic clutch slip from a worn clutch plate and really the only thing that can wear down a clutch plate is excessive use/ driver error. Of course there could be a manufacturing defect with it too, but generally a manufacturing defect causing a clutch plate to fail will not give you clutch slip as a symptom.

I've said in threads before that I've seen on multiple occasions, people who've been driving decades, trade in a perfectly good car with no issues and wear the clutch out in their new car on the way home. I'm not saying this has 100% happened to you but it does happen. Usually in these instances we'd do something for the customer, the gesture itself depending on the circumstance whether it be a used car, new car etc.

That reads like you've got a DasWelt warranty which isn't going to cover this but I'd say you could push the garage to do something for you here out of their own pocket, even a 50/50 split would be ok I suppose.

What car did you have before the Golf? Was it pereol or diesel? Is the Golf petrol or diesel? What mileage have you put on the Golf since you got it?

It's a petrol Golf, and we had a petrol BMW e90 before for years without any clutch issues.

I'm just annoyed that the clutch was so close to being worn out when we bought it and there's apparently nothing we can do about it. I can say fairly confidently that it's not our own driving that's to blame - my partner is a stickler for driving by the book and shr She's a great driver. She even keeps her hands at 10 and 2 on the wheel as that's how she learned it....!

Toyotafanboi

The thing is I can't see a reputable dealer retailing a car with the clutch hanging out of it. People on here will soon and gloom the life out of you but in reality most dealers endeavour to retail good, fault free cars.

There has to be a compromise in this somewhere. Ask them what can they do for you. If your service rep isn't really doing anything for you ask them to ask someone more elevated. Would you meet them 50/50? Or you pay for the parts if they fit them maybe?

JaMarcus

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

The thing is I can't see a reputable dealer retailing a car with the clutch hanging out of it. People on here will soon and gloom the life out of you but in reality most dealers endeavour to retail good, fault free cars.

There has to be a compromise in this somewhere. Ask them what can they do for you. If your service rep isn't really doing anything for you ask them to ask someone more elevated. Would you meet them 50/50? Or you pay for the parts if they fit them maybe?

I'd normally agree with that, but given that the breaks were replaced after only 2 weeks makes me wonder how much of an inspection/service the car got. Surely that would have been one of the easier things to check/service before retailing it...

Toyotafanboi

There's a known defect in those Golfs for the brakes squeaking, due to poor material in a certain batch of pads produced, so VW will replace those pads under warranty if the driver complains of a squeak. The pads are ok from a safety point of view though so they would pass an inspection as there is plenty of material left, it's the material itself causing the noise.

Pkiernan

Go to an independent mechanic and get that job done for less than half what the dealer is quoting

2012paddy2012

I had an 08 car with 90 k mikes that I bought 2 months ago. I did notice the garage man mentioned that the clutch would not be covered under warranty. In fact he said it so many times my wife said i wonder why!
10 days later clutch went.

I rang him and said I was very disappointed and as he made it so clear that it wouldn't be covered he suspected it would go.

I also said I hoped as it went so quick he would replace it he did. He moaned and groaned but did it. I also threw in that I would be putting a very positive review on his popular Facebook page when he did. I also alluded to the fact I would review the purchase honestly anyway
I think that nay have helped.
You have no comeback, but goodwill and fairness may help you I wish you well

rex-x

Pkiernan wrote: »

Go to an independent mechanic and get that job done for less than half what the dealer is quoting

You will not get a new clutch and flywheel for under what the dealer is quoting from any garage unfortunately. The parts are very expensive

Pkiernan

rex-x wrote: »

You will not get a new clutch and flywheel for under what the dealer is quoting from any garage unfortunately. The parts are very expensive

VW labour rates are 120 euro an houror so, and they typically charge 40% more for parts than independent retailers.

I had a quite to replace a bonnet lock on Golf. 350 including VAT.
I boughtan the parts for 75 euro and did it myself in an hour.

My local independent mechanic would have charged me 150 for the job.

He did the clutch on the same car for 350.

Toyotafanboi

Pkiernan wrote: »

VW labour rates are 120 euro an houror so, and they typically charge 40% more for parts than independent retailers.

You just made those numbers up?

Pkiernan

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

You just made those numbers up?

No I didn't and no need to be so smart about it either. Especially if you're a moderator.

Real life numbers from the estimate the dealer printed off and gave me.
348 included 2 hours labour and bonnet catch, 2 cable's, handle and handle bracket.

Toyotafanboi

Pkiernan wrote: »

No I didn't and no need to be so smart about it either. Especially if you're a moderator.

Real life numbers from the estimate the dealer printed off and gave me.
348 included 2 hours labour and bonnet catch, 2 cable's, handle and handle bracket.

I wasn't being smart, I also wasn't questioning the bonnet lock quote.

One dealers labour rate could be 120 an hour but we can't quote that like it's gospel across the board, literally every single dealer has a different rate.

I wasn't even questioning so much that as the "parts are typically 40% more than independent retailers". I'd like to see the research that took you to that figure, or at least a case study of more than one item. Sure some genuine parts are more expensive than spurious items but it should be assessed on a case by case basis really.

tabby aspreme

The clutch disc , dmf, pressure plate, release bearing, etc, will have been made by Luk or Sachs, whether you buy it off main dealer or motor factors it the same product, big savings buying it from the motor factors.

ml100

Do the petrol engines have a dmf?

rex-x

ml100 wrote: »

Do the petrol engines have a dmf?

They do

khaldrogo

No matter what you do, don't pay anyone 1100 for a clutch(and presumably a F/W)

mickdw

I can't see a dmf needing to be replaced at this kind of mileage in a petrol car.
I'd be very much inclined to think this clutch was ready to go when purchases. I'd certainly be very upset if I bought a low mile car and it then needed a clutch straight away. It's alright saying a clutch can be burnt out in 10 minutes. In reality, most drivers don't burn their clutches in a couple of thousand miles so first assumption should be that it was well on its way when purchased.
I'd be looking for this to be covered arguing that it was very much worn when purchased.

JaMarcus

I'm waiting for a call back tomorrow but I'll certainly be arguing that mick.

As an aside, why the difference in price between a Sachs vs. Luk clutch kit?

https://www.micksgarage.com/d/clutch-kits/volkswagen/volkswagen-golf/golf-vii-2012-onwards/1-2-tsi-110-1197/products

Toyotafanboi

Sachs and LUK are both OEM suppliers to Volkswagen but in your link the expensive LUK kit is for an automatic DSG car which you don't need.

Cee-Jay-Cee

A lot of nay sayers on here declaring that there must be a problem with the car when the clutch needed to be replaced so early when most likely the previous owner was simply very sore on the clutch.

I would definitely push the dealer for a considerable good Will gesture. You can point out you would never have bought the car if you had known you’d be replacing the clutch anywhere in the first 30k kms and for it to happen within 6k kms of purchase date is not acceptable.

JaMarcus

Thanks for the advice all.

Needless to say, if this had been a 10 year old car we purchased for €5k or so, then we wouldn't be as peeved. But having shelled out not far off €20k for a 3 year old car, we're incredibly frustrated now. I'll keep the thread updated in case it helps anyone else going forward in a similar situation.

tcawley29

JaMarcus wrote: »

Thanks for the advice all.

Needless to say, if this had been a 10 year old car we purchased for €5k or so, then we wouldn't be as peeved. But having shelled out not far off €20k for a 3 year old car, we're incredibly frustrated now. I'll keep the thread updated in case it helps anyone else going forward in a similar situation.

If he doesn't give any good will just park outside his premises with a nice poster explaining what happened. That should make him change his tune.