Decision time

Should Have Done Arts

Looking for a rifle for plinking and indoor range. I am stuck between these:

1.Savage MkII
2.CZ 452

What's better for a noob if you consider:
Durability?
Easy to clean?
Easy to obtain parts?
Price of attachment?

Feel free to comment on performance to or add other general comments

gunny123

Cz, great make, great little rifle, i have never seen one go wrong and they are tack drivers usually. Parts should be no problem, but you won't need them, and attachments like scopes and mounts are easily available.

cosieman

I say go with the cz452 they are really popular here so parts are no problem and you can find them cheap enough.

hedzball

wouldnt have a savage in my way tbh..

cz all day


'hdz

Cass

Should Have Done Arts wrote: »

• Durability?
• Easy to clean?
• Easy to obtain parts?
• Price of attachment?

Between both rifles you won't find much in terms of difference for any of the items you mentioned. There are a few things i'd look at though and it's aesthetics rather than performance issues.

I've owned, fired and currently own the rifles above. For performance reviews there is no difference. Both rifles are extremely accurate with neither able to claim the title of "better than the other".

The difference i mentioned above are the following.

Magazine.

• On the CZ the mag is released by pulling the mag release towards the mag and the mag then drops out into your hand. Quick and easy to do.
• The mag for the Savage not so much. The mag release sits behind the magazine, basically between the mag well and trigger, and you have to pull the mag release towards the trigger to release the mag. This can be done one handed with time and practice, but it feels "wrong" and can be frustrating at first.

Stock

• The Savage comes in over 20 varieties. From plastic to timber, from straight to thumbhole. The standard plastic stocks were not the greatest imo. It never interfered in the rifles performance, and i'm not a timber snob, but it wasn't my cup of tea. Much like the stocks of the Tikka rifles. However the BTV range is quite nice and mine was the BTVS thumbhole. I had a chance to shoot the TRR and while composite, it was much better than the FV range.
• The CZ also a good array of options. Like the Savage the CZ style has a composite stock and while functional it has the same pitfalls as the Savage. Light and feels unbalanced. Also like the Savage in timber stock, you have options like the American, thumbhole, Evolution and a host of after market options.

Threading/Suppressor

• This is one big enough difference, but not a deal breaker. Not all Savage rifles come threaded from the factory and those that do, due to it being an American company, are American thread. Usually means 1/2x28 unf/unef. Meaning most accessories from Euro suppliers won't fit. This means you need to get the rifle threaded yourself even if it comes threaded from the factory. Any RFD will do this.
• The CZs all comes threaded except maybe for one or two "special" models. The threading is 1/2x20 unf which means all accessories will fit with no need for modifications.

Barrel
As i said at the start you won't go wrong with either rifle and frankly some of the Savage models are much nicer than the CZ in terms of looks, feel, etc. For example i'd take a BTVS in stainless all day long over any CZ. The stainless is lighter and better lasting than the CZ most of which are blued barrels and prone to rusting/damage from wet/humidity. When i compare my CZ and Savage side by side the Savage with it's stainless barrel and timber stock is better balanced than the CZ which is nose heavy because of the heavier bull barrel and lighter timber stock.

For comparison sake. CZ on top, Savage on the bottom:



My best and only advice is to go out and look. I'd wouldn't be surprised if you end up with something that is neither a CZ or Savage. However either will do exactly what you want, but if buying new don't be afraid to order what you want and wait for it. It's your money and you might as well be happy with what you want and not what anyone tells you to go for.

Should Have Done Arts

Some huge support for the CZ. I will aim for the 452 so. Its cheaper to. Theres a preowned one for sale for 275 with scope and mod. Cheap out. Must ditch the mod doh.

Cass your comments are excatly what i needed. By the sounds of it the mag on the MkII would annoy me at times.

So next main issue, what do I need to look out for when buying a preown 452? Rust? Weak firing pins? (Scratchs and dents wont bother me as long as it reliable)

Getting my range membership this week so hope to have deposit on a rifle this week to. Just note this .22 is a stepping stone to a larger rifle. Long distance shooting is my end goal.

Cass

Should Have Done Arts wrote: »

So next main issue, what do I need to look out for when buying a preown 452? Rust? Weak firing pins? (Scratchs and dents wont bother me as long as it reliable)

There is only so much you can find out by looking or asking about the rifle. It's why no matter whether i'm selling or buying (second hand) i always meet on the range and fire the gun.

The first thing, and most important, is have someone with you that knows their stuff. Someone that knows about rifles (doesn't have to be an expert) or at least more than you. If you don't have someone like that then go ask the stuff below and then come back here and ask opinions based on notes you took. Never buy if unsure or on the "spur of the moment".

If i'm buying i want to check the gun and if i'm selling i'll fire my rifle first to show the buyer what it can do so regardless of whether they can repeat that performance or not they don't come back to me complaining the gun is not shooting right when in fact it's the nut behind the butt.

When buying i always look for the following:

• Overall condition.
• Marks, dents, scratches.
• Dirty action/chamber
• Dirty barrel/bore
• Rust on any metal parts
• Greater wear marks on grips/foreend
• Check rifle serial number against person's license (seems odd but you can never be too careful)

Any of the above show a high usage and lack of maintenance. Any lad that presents a dirty or poorly maintained firearm doesn't care for his firearm and as such i'd be less interested. Not to say i'd disregard the firearm, but it'd be a cause for concern as to how he looked after it while he owned it and also a bargaining chip to argue the price.


Next thing i do is ask questions. Such as:

• Round count. (Important for some caliber, but not for others.)
• When it was bought
• Was it new or second, third, fourth, etc. hand bought
• Cleaning regime
• Type of shooting (rough shooting, open fields. in the rain, only in good weather, etc.)
• Any upgrades
• Any problems that were fixed or need fixing
• For any work done, who carried it out (competent gunsmith or lad from "down the road")
• If threaded for a suppressor was it factory or aftermarket and who done it

For the scope you ask:

• Age
• New or bought second, third, etc. hand
• Any dents, scratches, marks, etc
• Any issues with loss of tracking
• Can it hold zero
• Is it caliber rated/suited
• Are the rings appropriate for height, the scope on it, and for the caliber it's on.

Lastly, if you can you fire the rifle. Look for:

• The bolt cycles well (on an empty chamber) and without any sticking or issues relating to stiffness
• The magazine or blind magazine holds the amount of rounds it's meant to and the rounds feed freely form it
• The safety works and will not allow the rifle to fire (in this case dry fire)
• The suppressor (if one comes with it) screws on easily and functions well when the rifle is fired. Well being it is properly cut and sits perfectly on the rifle and does not cause clipping of bullets when fired.
• Fire a group or three and make sure the gun can hold it's zero.
• Do a box test and make sure the scope returns to zero
• The scope turrets are precise and not tight to turn as well as go through the full range of clicks (if you know the scope brand in advance check the technical specs online so you know how many clicks it should have in elevation and windage)
• That everything remain tight after firing (rings, suppressor, bipod, etc)
• You don't get hard extractions when ejecting the empty cases (could be a sign of poor maintenance among other things)

Again there is only so much you can do and once you cover as many of the bases as possible, ask the right questions, and either seek advice from someone that knows or have someone with you that knows then you've done as much as you can.

Jackdaw89

I have a 452 that belonged to my father and it was probably the first rifle I fired. It’s never failed me and all parts are original. I shot it with iron sights up to about 3 years ago and the only problem i had was the comb drops down to far for my scope height so had to put cheek riser on it. After market stocks are available.
The 455 is a fine rifle too especially with the thumb hole stock.

Chiparus

Had a 452 and thought it was excellent , but the best I had was a ruger 77/22 heavy barrel. Now have a 10/22 .

BattleCorp

Should Have Done Arts wrote: »

Looking for a rifle for plinking and indoor range. I am stuck between these:

1.Savage MkII
2.CZ 452

What's better for a noob if you consider:
Durability?
Easy to clean?
Easy to obtain parts?
Price of attachment?

Feel free to comment on performance to or add other general comments

Just to annoy you, would you consider a Ruger 10/22 seeing as you want it for plinking and indoor range work. A semi auto is more fun indoors than a bolt action.

Should Have Done Arts

BattleCorp wrote: »

Just to annoy you, would you consider a Ruger 10/22 seeing as you want it for plinking and indoor range work. A semi auto is more fun indoors than a bolt action.

I have fired simi auto, full auto and bolt action. I just love the feel of a bolt action. There's something about it.

Wasnt able to get to range/ store this weekend so I have more time to think. After cass's comment on the mag of a MkII I am very much leaning towards a CZ.

Cass

Should Have Done Arts wrote: »

After cass's comment on the mag of a MkII I am very much leaning towards a CZ.

Don't let that be the only factor. As said the Savage is a better balanced rifle, and in stainless much easier for maintenance. So don't overlook one or the other for a small "fault".