Henry Cavill forced to apologize for #metoo comments

DONTMATTER

MonsterCookie wrote: »

Ok! And you wonder why not everyone agrees with you.

I was hoping for something a little more evidence based.

FYI the rate of conviction for rape in this country is quite good - for those cases that go to trial that is.

It’s the cases that don’t go to trial that are very difficult to draw conclusions from. I guess for those that are reported, it’s poor evidence and poor chance of conviction that holds them back.

Well do you have any of this evidence base to state anything different?

This is not just about rape first of all. The movement includes all sorts of harassment. And the amount of cases that don't even get reported is quite high. This is because of fear of not being believed, fear of being called a slut/were asking for it, fear of the rapist not being sent to prison and so on. Legitimate fears.

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Deleted User wrote: »

Simple common sense will tell you that false rape claims and actual rape claims are separate issues...

And your link is about the rise in rape during that period... not a justification for your claim of huge amount of rape happening.

One is far less likely to happen without the other, they're linked.

Did you not read my post? I said the metoo movement is a worldwide movement. And the article gives figures on rape and other sexual assaults in Ireland.

DONTMATTER

Here's a comparison of rapes per 100,000 citizens in many countries.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Rape-rate

Also, research has shown that only between 15-35% of rapes actually get reported.

Galwayguy35

DONTMATTER wrote: »

No, so if we make rape and sexual assault less likely to happen then it will be more difficult for false rape claims to happen. False rape claims don't happen very often anyway but they're only possible because of the huge amount of rape cases.

No, false claims are only possible when someone tells lies about an innocent person.

Do you think the person who made the false accusation should be punished for their actions?

I do.

DONTMATTER

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

No, false claims are only possible when someone tells lies about an innocent person.

Do you think the person who made the false accusation should be punished for their actions?

I do.

Of course. What that has to do with the thousands of women who've come forward with their stories is beyond me, unless you think they're all false claims.

MonsterCookie

Rather than conflate many different issues, let’s just stick with rape and your belief that false claims are rare.

I haven’t made any assertions that I can’t back up, sob I don’t feel any need to provide data or evidence at this point. I have merely asked you to back up your assertion that false rape claims are rare. And you can’t. And I dont think anyone can.

For balance; I think it would be a mistake to ignore metoo. There are plenty of men (and women) that behave badly and cause untold distress for others.

But let’s have a rational discussion on it and avoid sweeping statements.

professore

DONTMATTER wrote: »

So the thousands upon thousands of women are all to be doubted? It's all just a big conspiracy?

No. Some of them are lying. Some of them are telling the truth. Some are exaggerations. Just like any group online.

Galwayguy35

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Of course. What that has to do with the thousands of women who've come forward with their stories is beyond me, unless you think they're all false claims.

No I don't think that, but I've noticed you saying that to other posters on this thread as well.

DONTMATTER

MonsterCookie wrote: »

Rather than conflate many different issues, let’s just stick with rape and your belief that false claims are rare.

I haven’t made any assertions that I can’t back up, sob I don’t feel any need to provide data or evidence at this point. I have merely asked you to back up your assertion that false rape claims are rare. And you can’t. And I dont think anyone can.

For balance; I think it would be a mistake to ignore metoo. There are plenty of men (and women) that behave badly and cause untold distress for others.

But let’s have a rational discussion on it and avoid sweeping statements.

No, metoo is not just about rape. You can't just ignore it.

Studies say between 2-4% are false.
http://kunskapsbanken.nck.uu.se/nckkb/nck/publik/fil/visa/197/different

What sweeping statements? Thousands of women have come out with their stories, they shouldn't be doubted. We have to try to put an end to the behavior of some men, not question women for bringing the topic to all our attention.

Mokuba

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Of course. What that has to do with the thousands of women who've come forward with their stories is beyond me, unless you think they're all false claims.

If there has been an incident it should be reported to the Gardai. Social media should not be a forum to trial people based on allegation alone.

Why should I believe a stranger purely on the basis of what the they have between their legs? Are women incapable of lying? Should all women be taken at their word with everything they say? Why? What have women done to deserve being above rational thought and scrutiny? Why should women be above the burden of proof?

Herd mentality quite clearly in effect here.

This has been said to you many times during the thread and you have pretty much done the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and screamed "LaLaLa I'm not listening".

DONTMATTER

professore wrote: »

No. Some of them are lying. Some of them are telling the truth. Some are exaggerations. Just like any group online.

Even if that is true, are you not concerned with how women are treated? I've talked to my mother, my sister, my girlfriend, my female friends about this and every single one of them has had a disgusting story to tell. This isn't right is it?

DONTMATTER

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

No I don't think that, but I've noticed you saying that to other posters on this thread as well.

What's the problem then? You obviously agree that the treatment of women by some men is not tolerable. Let's all push in the one direction.

DONTMATTER

Mokuba wrote: »

If there has been an incident it should be reported to the Gardai. Social media should not be a forum to trial people based on allegation alone.

Why should I believe a stranger purely on the basis of what the they have between their legs? Are women incapable of lying? Should all women be taken at their word with everything they say? Why? What have women done to deserve being above rational thought and scrutiny? Why should women be above the burden of proof?

Herd mentality quite clearly in effect here.

This has been said to you many times during the thread and you have pretty much done the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and screamed "LaLaLa I'm not listening".

The opposite is the case. Even if you believe some of the stories are false, you can't think they all are. Is it not shocking to you the huge amount of women who have been assaulted or harassed? Why don't you want to do something about it?

py2006

A lot of deluded feminists hoped on the metoo band wagon not to highlight genuine cases but to increase the current negative narratives towards men.

Quite possibly also a recruitment process for the current crop of feminists.

Henry apologised for his career (not for his opinion) as it could easily be destroyed by the above sub humans.

Mokuba

DONTMATTER wrote: »

The opposite is the case. Even if you believe some of the stories are false, you can't think they all are. Is it not shocking to you the huge amount of women who have been assaulted or harassed? Why don't you want to do something about it?

Where is this huge amount of women? What are we classifying as assault or harassment?

What do you want me to do about it?

If a women feels a crime has been committed against her she needs to go to the police. I can't force women to do this.

As has been said already, you seem to want men jailed because a woman says they were abused or assaulted, with no investigation. Anybody who believes in a system where we jail people on the basis of what a woman says, without investigation, is dangerous and unwell.

martingriff

DONTMATTER wrote: »

The opposite is the case. Even if you believe some of the stories are false, you can't think they all are. Is it not shocking to you the huge amount of women who have been assaulted or harassed? Why don't you want to do something about it?

That the person responsible should be tried and if found guilty be sentenced in a court of law. If you actually read the posters message he has said that.

What do you want to happen

py2006

When it comes to small scale sexual harrasment like inappropriate comments or even touching. I bet I have more cause to squeal metoo than a lot of women.

But I am a man, I am not bothered or offended or hating on women.

DONTMATTER

py2006 wrote: »

A lot of deluded feminists hoped on the metoo band wagon not to highlight genuine cases but to increase the current negative narratives towards men.

Quite possibly also a recruitment process for the current crop of feminists.

Henry apologised for his career (not for his opinion) as it could easily be destroyed by the above sub humans.

I don't know about these feminists but metoo is an attack against rapists and other creeps. Why do you think it's an attack against men?

Mokuba

DONTMATTER wrote: »

I don't know about these feminists but metoo is an attack against rapists and other creeps. Why do you think it's an attack against men?

Because women are accusing people and getting them tried by social media with no defense, and no option for the accused to dispute the allegation.

Anybody who starts accusing on social media without going to the police needs to be looked at extremely sceptically.

DONTMATTER

Mokuba wrote: »

Where is this huge amount of women? What are we classifying as assault or harassment?

What do you want me to do about it?

If a women feels a crime has been committed against her she needs to go to the police. I can't force women to do this.

As has been said already, you seem to want men jailed because a woman says they were abused or assaulted, with no investigation. Anybody who believes in a system where we jail people on the basis of what a woman says, without investigation, is dangerous and unwell.

Have you not read any of the stories? Have you not spoken to females close to you?

We all have to push against this, the minimum is to change the culture. Joking about rape, thinking it's ok to feel up women uninvited, thinking hasling women on the street is ok and so on. It may seem small but if we all stand up against it, then there will be change.

Where did I say that? Quote me.

DONTMATTER

martingriff wrote: »

That the person responsible should be tried and if found guilty be sentenced in a court of law. If you actually read the posters message he has said that.

What do you want to happen

It's not all about rape, there's many other cases, you need to read more metoo stories, you need to talk to women close to you more often.

DONTMATTER

py2006 wrote: »

When it comes to small scale sexual harrasment like inappropriate comments or even touching. I bet I have more cause to squeal metoo than a lot of women.

But I am a man, I am not bothered or offended or hating on women.

The hatred is for rapists and other scum, again, why are you conflating all men with them? Are you claiming all men are rapists?

DONTMATTER

Mokuba wrote: »

Because women are accusing people and getting them tried by social media with no defense, and no option for the accused to dispute the allegation.

Anybody who starts accusing on social media without going to the police needs to be looked at extremely sceptically.

It was said a few pages back, the majority of the metoo stories didn't mention any names. It's just sharing their stories and the reality out there. Why do you think they're all lying?

py2006

DONTMATTER wrote: »

The hatred is for rapists and other scum, again, why are you conflating all men with them? Are you claiming all men are rapists?

You are (prob deliberately) missing the point of my post. I refer to the bandwagon that hoped on.

The claim above you refer to has often been the claim of some of the more extreme feminists.

Mokuba

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Have you not read any of the stories? Have you not spoken to females close to you?

We all have to push against this, the minimum is to change the culture. Joking about rape, thinking it's ok to feel up women uninvited, thinking hasling women on the street is ok and so on. It may seem small but if we all stand up against it, then there will be change.

Where did I say that? Quote me.

You seem to be really struggling with one thing in particular. No point in having a debate with you, you are like a broken record spouting the same absolute rubbish and ignoring every reasoned response.

Why would anybody believe randomers on the internet about anything?

Why would I believe someone I don't know with no evidence?

DONTMATTER

py2006 wrote: »

You are (prob deliberately) missing the point of my post. I refer to the bandwagon that hoped on.

The claim above you refer to has often been the claim of some of the more extreme feminists.

You said you don't hate on women because of the experiences you've had. No one is hating on men, it's hating on rapists and other scum.

DONTMATTER

Mokuba wrote: »

You seem to be really struggling with one thing in particular. No point in having a debate with you, you are like a broken record spouting the same absolute rubbish and ignoring every reasoned response.

Why would anybody believe randomers on the internet about anything?

Why would I believe someone I don't know with no evidence?

Because the opposite is to believe that thousands of women are all lying. Have you not spoken to women close to you about this?

Mokuba

DONTMATTER wrote: »

It was said a few pages back, the majority of the metoo stories didn't mention any names. It's just sharing their stories and the reality out there. Why do you think they're all lying?

Where did I say they are all lying?

If they have been a victim of a crime then it should be reported.

If they were the victim of a crime and are not reporting it they are letting a dangerous predator walk free. Considering you want "something" done, maybe start there.

Anybody coming forward with unverified stories which are not bring reported to the police, should be treated with rightful scepticism.

Mokuba

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Because the opposite is to believe that thousands of women are all lying. Have you not spoken to women close to you about this?

No that is not the opposite. Some could be telling the truth. Some could be lying.

We don't know. We can't know.

So why should all women be automatically believed? Go to the police and let the judicial system decide. That is the system we have in place and long may it last, lest people like you get their way.

DONTMATTER

Mokuba wrote: »

Where did I say they are all lying?

If they have been a victim of a crime then it should be reported.

If they were the victim of a crime and are not reporting it they are letting a dangerous predator walk free. Considering you want "something" done, maybe start there.

Anybody coming forward with unverified stories which are not bring reported to the police, should be treated with rightful scepticism.

Either you believe them or you don't.

As I've already stated, the amount of rapes un-reported is huge. This page will give you some reasons for this. Give it a close read.

https://ocrsm.umd.edu/files/Why-Is-Sexual-Assault-Under-Reported.pdf

py2006

Also what a lot of the recruits to that metoo campaign (is it still going?) fail to realise is that not all the stories will be true. Not doubt a lot are but just because an accusation is made does not mean that should be the end of that man. But it often is...

There are plenty of men who are falsely accused of rape or sexual harassment for a multitude of reasons. I absolutely don't believe the stats are so small as feminists suggests that it should be ignored or disregarded.

The sad part is, the accusation alone, even if proved unfounded will absolutely destroy a man.

DONTMATTER

Mokuba wrote: »

No that is not the opposite. Some could be telling the truth. Some could be lying.

We don't know. We can't know.

So why should all women be automatically believed? Go to the police and let the judicial system decide. That is the system we have in place and long may it last, lest people like you get their way.

You don't have to believe them all but the huge number of stories gives great reason for concern, you can only be unconcerned if you don't believe all of the women or if you don't find the huge number of rapes and assaults as troubling.

DONTMATTER

py2006 wrote: »

Also what a lot of the recruits to that metoo campaign (is it still going?) fail to realise is that not all the stories will be true. Not doubt a lot are but just because an accusation is made does not mean that should be the end of that man. But it often is...

There are plenty of men who are falsely accused of rape or sexual harassment for a multitude of reasons. I absolutely don't believe the stats are so small as feminists suggests that it should be ignored or disregarded.

Well why are you fighting against this then? Jump on board, this campaign aims to educate people on the level of abuse suffered by women but why not men as well?

DONTMATTER

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Because the opposite is to believe that thousands of women are all lying. Have you not spoken to women close to you about this?

Are you legitimately stupid or just acting it to make your points? You have no understanding of logic. It's embarrassing.

AudreyHepburn

DONTMATTER wrote: »

I didn't say you said that.

The only sides to this debate is those being raped/assaulted v those who rape/assault. Why are men getting offended by that?
Shouldn't they be be getting on board the movement as men get raped and assaulted by other men too!
It should be everyone against the rapists and abusers but for some reason some men are seeing attacks on depraved men as being an attack on all men. It's very weird.

If only it were that simple. But it’s not.

When you reach a point where a bad date can be seen as sexual assault, when a man is afraid to approach women and would rather go back to an unhappy relationship because of the risk of being accused of something he didn’t do, when a simple smile or a hand on the bump is considered on a par with Harvey Weinstein’s crimes then it’s no longer simply about naming and shaming rapists and assaulters. It’s becoming a witch hunt plain and simple.

py2006

I'm on board with genuine victims and not those attention seeking witch hunters on social media making dubious accusations.

I stand on the side of ALL victims, not just women.

DONTMATTER

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you legitimately stupid or just acting it to make your points? You have no understanding of logic. It's embarrassing.

The disgusting treatment of many women gets highlighted through the metoo campaign. Some men get offended by it, can you explain that to me?

DONTMATTER

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

If only it were that simple. But it’s not.

When you reach a point where a bad date can be seen as sexual assault, when a man is afraid to approach women and would rather go back to an unhappy relationship because of the risk of being accused of something he didn’t do, when a simple smile or a hand on the bump is considered on a par with Harvey Weinstein’s crimes then it’s no longer simply about naming and shaming rapists and assaulters. It’s becoming a witch hunt plain and simple.

There have been thousands of stories, why ignore all the serious one's for the few non serious?

DONTMATTER

py2006 wrote: »

I'm on board with genuine victims and not those attention seeking witch hunters on social media making dubious accusations.

I stand on the side of ALL victims, not just women.

Then jump on board, make metoo about male and female victims. Men rape and assault other men also. Let's all attack rapists together.

AudreyHepburn

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Either you believe them or you don't.

As I've already stated, the amount of rapes un-reported is huge. This page will give you some reasons for this. Give it a close read.

https://ocrsm.umd.edu/files/Why-Is-Sexual-Assault-Under-Reported.pdf

Why can’t there be a middle ground where you say ‘ I don’t automatically believe but neither do I disbelieve you. I am going to withhold judgement until I have more facts’?

It doesn’t have to come down to believing or disbelieving.

py2006

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Then jump on board, make metoo about male and female victims. Men rape and assault other men also. Let's all attack rapists together.

Ah so its only men who are the perpetrators in your book. Surprise, surprise. That is one of the major criticisms of this branch of modern day feminism. You asked the question earlier "why do some men get offended?". There you go.

DONTMATTER

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Why can’t there be a middle ground where you say ‘ I don’t automatically believe but neither do I disbelieve you. I am going to withhold judgement until I have more facts’?

It doesn’t have to come down to believing or disbelieving.

There are thousands of stories, I've said this. They're not all lying, the stories brings concern to me and it should to all people. You don't have to believe every story and that's not the point. It's about highlighting the huge number of women who have been affected by rape and sexual assault. And the metoo campaign has done that.

DONTMATTER

DONTMATTER wrote: »

The disgusting treatment of many women gets highlighted through the metoo campaign. Some men get offended by it, can you explain that to me?

See this nonsense is why you've been arguing for days and have achieved nothing except embarrassment. You're just inventing strawmen and firing them at people instead of engaging in conversation.

I hate accusing people of strawmen tactics but I don't think you're aware you're doing it. In real life, do you just ignore conversation flow and just fire off random comments that have no relevance to what's being talked about?

DONTMATTER

py2006 wrote: »

Ah so its only men who are the perpetrators in your book. Surprise, surprise. That is one of the major criticisms of this branch of modern day feminism. You asked the question earlier "why do some men get offended?". There you go.

Well the huge majority of rapists are men, do you deny that? Again, I was saying we should attack rapists together and you get offended! Why?

DONTMATTER

Deleted User wrote: »

See this nonsense is why you've been arguing for days and have achieved nothing except embarrassment. You're just inventing strawmen and firing them at people instead of engaging in conversation.

I hate accusing people of strawmen tactics but I don't think you're aware you're doing it. In real life, do you just ignore conversation flow and just fire off random comments that have no relevance to what's being talked about?

You can't answer the question I posed to you.

AudreyHepburn

DONTMATTER wrote: »

There have been thousands of stories, why ignore all the serious one's for the few non serious?

Who’s ignoring anything? We’re all simply saying that the movement has reached a point where it’s no longer about outing real criminals anymore.

I saw a post on Twitter from an actress who was deeply upset when a man simply asked for her number after she smiled at him. You can’t honestly tell me that’s right.

DONTMATTER

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Who’s ignoring anything? We’re all simply saying that the movement has reached a point where it’s no longer about outing real criminals anymore.

I saw a post on Twitter from an actress who was deeply upset when a man simply asked for her number after she smiled at him. You can’t honestly tell me that’s right.

Again you're ignoring the serious one's. These are what are of concern. The thousands of women who have been raped and assaulted. Every woman I've spoken to about this has had a horrible experience in the past. Metoo has highlighted this and it's a good thing. Now we must do something about it.

DONTMATTER

DONTMATTER wrote: »

You can't answer the question I posed to you.

Why would I answer this or even know the answer?!?

"Some men get offended by it, can you explain that to me?"


This a strawman. You are asking people to defend or explain things that they have no part of, and if they stupidly answer, you have successfully put words in their mouths.

Have a normal conversation and stop resorting to teenager tactics. It's clearly not working and everyone here has pointed it out.

DONTMATTER

Deleted User wrote: »

Why would I answer this or even know the answer?!?

"Some men get offended by it, can you explain that to me?"


This a strawman. You are asking people to defend or explain things that they have no part of, and if they stupidly answer, you have successfully put words in their mouths.

Have a normal conversation and stop resorting to teenager tactics. It's clearly not working and everyone here has pointed it out.

You are part of it! You are getting offended by people attacking rapists and sexual deviants. Why is that?

DONTMATTER

DONTMATTER wrote: »

You are part of it! You are getting offended by people attacking rapists and sexual deviants. Why is that?

This is by far the most retarded thing I've ever read on this site.