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Brexit on Aviation

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    #62
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,132 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    Hows does that impact Ryanair UK?


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    #63
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Aer Lingus does not have a UK AOC currently


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    #64
    MoeJay
    Registered Users Posts: 493 ✭✭MoeJay


    theguzman wrote: »
    Bad news for Easyjet if it came to pass, they would have to reflag to an EU country for intra-EU operations.

    Done already... Many aircraft on an Austrian reg flying under their Austrian AOC.....

    Edit: Oops beaten to it!


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    #65
    Bussywussy
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Bussywussy


    smurfjed wrote: »
    Hows does that impact Ryanair UK?

    They've transferred a few regs to UK...saw a pic of one the other day


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    #66
    theguzman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    Aer Lingus does not have a UK AOC currently

    Complications for the UK internal George Best Belfast City to London Heathrow route possibly? Plus the Faro and Malaga seasonal services.


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    #67
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Solution is to hand those routes to BA and then BA to subcontract them to EI

    Really a paper exercise, but helpful to have friends in Waterside. EI dug BA out with some planes and crews in 2018


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    #68
    Stevek101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Stevek101


    https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/brussels-cuts-iberia-and-aer-linguss-wings-to-fly-in-eu-after-brexit/

    Maybe we should of let Ryanair buy them after all...


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    #69
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,173 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    Stevek101 wrote: »
    https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/brussels-cuts-iberia-and-aer-linguss-wings-to-fly-in-eu-after-brexit/

    Maybe we should of let Ryanair buy them after all...

    I always thought IAG hq was Madrid


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    #70
    sandbelter
    Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭sandbelter


    The issue is the 50.1% shareholding (which I believe also applies to Ryanair).

    basically, Unless there's a 50.1% EU ownership then EI is restricted from intra single market routes.

    Euractiv is one of the few with a press bureau in Brussels and I've found it is often aligned with the EU's thinking.


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    #71
    Stevek101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Stevek101


    A point which seems to be ignored here but is now being picked up in Spain. It was clearly stated in the EU plan for aviation the other day.


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    #72
    theguzman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    sandbelter wrote: »
    The issue is the 50.1% shareholding (which I believe also applies to Ryanair).

    basically, Unless there's a 50.1% EU ownership then EI is restricted from intra single market routes.

    Euractiv is one of the few with a press bureau in Brussels and I've found it is often aligned with the EU's thinking.

    haha, imagine if they did like a double Irish inversion and Aer Lingus became the parent of BA.


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    #73
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,173 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    theguzman wrote: »
    haha, imagine if they did like a double Irish inversion and Aer Lingus became the parent of BA.

    Could we see EI sold back to the Irish government on a temporary basis for like €1 until the mess is sorted and then returned to IAG thereafter


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    #74
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,053 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    From Wiki, IAG is incorporated in Spain as a Sociedad Anónima, where the company board meetings are held, and is domiciled in Spain for tax purposes. I'm confused, if it's a Spanish registered company doesn't that make it an EU airline?


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    #75
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,173 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    From Wiki, IAG is incorporated in Spain as a Sociedad Anónima, where the company board meetings are held, and is domiciled in Spain for tax purposes. I'm confused, if it's a Spanish registered company doesn't that make it an EU airline?

    That’s what I thought


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    #76
    NH2013
    Registered Users Posts: 401 ✭✭NH2013


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    From Wiki, IAG is incorporated in Spain as a Sociedad Anónima, where the company board meetings are held, and is domiciled in Spain for tax purposes. I'm confused, if it's a Spanish registered company doesn't that make it an EU airline?

    Only if greater than 50% of the shareholders with voting rights of IAG are from the EU.

    With Qatar owning circa 20% I believe once the UK shareholders are no longer considered EU shareholders that may well push the percentage of non-EU shareholders over 50%, meaning IAG would be considered to be a non-EU holding company.


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    #77
    sandbelter
    Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭sandbelter


    Locker10a wrote: »
    Could we see EI sold back to the Irish government on a temporary basis for like €1 until the mess is sorted and then returned to IAG thereafter


    The only feasible solution i can see that works for IAG would pan out as follows:

    IAG owns 100% of British Airways
    IAG owns 49.9% of Aer Lingus, Level, Vueling and Iberia and lists 50.1% shares restricted to EU shareholders only.
    IAG then takes a minority shareholding in a EU carrier (my pick is Air Nostrum) keeping below 20% so equity accounting questions don't kick in, who in turn own circa 5% of the IAG EU vehicle so to block any LH or AF-KL hostile bids. The EI franchise contract could be a "kicker"for them which is why I picked Air Nostrum. It also keeps QR (from an IAG perspective) at bay.

    There may be other solutions, but this is how I'd see it pan out.

    I dont know Í want to say this, call it gut instinct, but I suspect we may see another EU player come out of the woodwork yet.


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    #78
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Hard, Soft or Mild, flights won't be grounded by end of next March. Project fear ...

    Aaand I don't need to read any further than that.


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    #79
    Scoondal
    Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Scoondal


    It seems no airline company will be affected by a no deal "brexit".
    But does a customer want to take a risk connecting through U.K. in April ? No, and no again if their travel insurance will not cover delays, chaos and cancelations.
    Flybe is dodgy, Loganair. Stobart Air offering connecting flights via Manchester to worldwide destinations.
    Before booking flights, passengers should check if their travel insurance covers this mess.
    I wouldn't touch U.K. airports with a bargepole in 2019.


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    #80
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Scoondal wrote: »
    It seems no airline company will be affected by a no deal "brexit".
    But does a customer want to take a risk connecting through U.K. in April ? No, and no again if their travel insurance will not cover delays, chaos and cancelations.
    Flybe is dodgy, Loganair. Stobart Air offering connecting flights via Manchester to worldwide destinations.
    Before booking flights, passengers should check if their travel insurance covers this mess.
    I wouldn't touch U.K. airports with a bargepole in 2019.

    I was under the impression that even with the EU allowing flights, British airlines won't be able to fly routes inside the EU?


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    #81
    Scoondal
    Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Scoondal


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I was under the impression that even with the EU allowing flights, British airlines won't be able to fly routes inside the EU?

    "British airlines" are owned by E.U. companies. Others have set up E.U. subsidary companies.
    But if I was you, I wouldn't book a flight from Ireland that transferred via uk in April. Personally, I never book via a uk airport. Too much racist profiling against my wife and then Gatwick being closed because of police drones. The whole country is collapsing.
    A French company has just bought 51% of London Gatwick. Eh why ?


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    #82
    sandbelter
    Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭sandbelter


    latest update from Spain re Brexit

    I notice in Spain this gets more press attention hence all discussion is re IB and VY (although EI makes the money), and new bit of information that LH and AF are now apparently watching from the sidelines the EU commission's decision with a view to grabbing IAG's intra EU business.

    https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/01/02/inenglish/1546440201_162784.html


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