Proposed Bus Changes

awec

https://www.busconnects.ie/about/


https://busconnects.ie/media/1239/chapter7recommendednetworkplan.pdf


(Greystones area starts on page 134 of this PDF).




The changes seem to be, if I am reading this right:


1. The 184 is gone.

2. The DART will go to Greystones every 20 minutes all day
3. There is a new route, 204, which is a clockwise loop of Greystones. Comes every 30 minutes

4. The 201 / 202 replaces the 184, with the stop on the N11 gone. This seems to be every 20/40 minutes (can't understand what the PDF means).


But it seems that the changes are geared toward buses to serve the DART, rather than buses into Dublin.

Yer Da sells Avon

The 184 and 84 become the 201 and 202 - two essentially identical routes, except one goes clockwise through Kilcoole, Newcastle and Newtown and the other goes anticlockwise (they follow an identical route between Bray Station and Charlesland, before branching off - one turning left for Kilcoole at the roundabout beside Eden Gate and the other turning right for Delgany). This will give people in Greystones, Kilcoole, Newcastle and Newtown a bus route with a 20 minute frequency. In Kilcoole and Newcastle, there is currently one 84 per hour. A bus every 20 minutes would be a huge improvement.

The changes are geared towards enabling simple and timely transfers (the 201/202 will connect with the DART at both Bray and Greystones stations, and also with Dublin Bus E1 - the replacement for the 145 - which will go from the city centre, along the Stillorgan Rd to Bray station).

It's inevitable that some people will no longer have a bus going from their backyard (people in Kilpeddar, for example, might have to walk an extremely short distance to the N11), but that's a small price to pay for having a bus service with a 20 minute frequency.

The worst thing that could possibly happen - and with elections (local and probably national too) on the way - has already started happening, is that local politicians will start popping up in the local media, having not bothered to read the proposals properly, encouraging people to complain, based on a total lack of understanding of the thinking behind the proposals. This is exactly what happened a few years ago, during the Dublin Bus 'Network Direct' process. It was proposed that the 84 would run every 30 minutes from Newcastle/Kilcoole to Brides Glen, linking up with the 145 and Luas. When it emerged that there would no longer be a direct link between Greystones (which already had the DART every 30 minutes, 184 every 30 minutes and 84 every hour) and UCD, because won't someone please think of the poor students, some very young local politicians (one of whom is now the health minister) stuck their stupid, inexperienced noses in and a decidedly shitty compromise was made, whereby the 84 would instead run to UCD every hour. As a result of political intervention, on behalf of a tiny, very localised proportion of the electorate (UCD students from Greystones), the communities of Kilcoole and Newcastle were shafted. Instead of getting a 30-minute service to Bray (where they could connect with the DART or 145) and Brides Glen (where they could connect with the Luas), they ended up with a bus every hour, almost as far as town, which pleased nobody.

The best thing anyone could do is let the changes happen and then, if anyone truly isn't happy with having vastly more frequent routes that no longer go from their backyard, lobby the NTA to make whatever subtle changes might be needed.

Victor

Note that there will also be peak time-only route 301 from Kilcoole-UCD-city (6 buses per day each way) and Newcastle-UCD-city (2 buses per day each way).

See map 3 here: https://www.busconnects.ie/initiatives/dublin-area-bus-network-redesign-public-consultation-report/

loyatemu

Victor wrote: »

Note that there will also be peak time-only route 301 from Kilcoole-UCD-city (6 buses per day each way) and Newcastle-UCD-city (2 buses per day each way).

See map 3 here: https://www.busconnects.ie/initiatives/dublin-area-bus-network-redesign-public-consultation-report/

route 301 is identical to existing route 84X.

the main complaint I've heard about the new local routes is that 201 doesn't go through Kilpedder like the 184 does (only in one direction though). This seems easily changed with minimal impact on journey time.

There are also the perennial complaints about there being no daytime bus to the City Centre/UCD (i.e the old 84) ignoring that the old 84 was infrequent, desperately slow and hardly anyone used it end-to-end after the Dart came to Greystones.

awec

The 20 minute dart will be a big improvement too, right?

Moving to greystones in a few months, so glad to see this stuff.

loyatemu

awec wrote: »

The 20 minute dart will be a big improvement too, right?

Moving to greystones in a few months, so glad to see this stuff.

the first mention of a 20 minute Dart was in the BusConnects document - previously Irish Rail have said it's not possible; but apparently the NTA are now saying they have engineers looking into it.

It's a single line track, and currently it takes 10 minutes to get from Bray to Greystones, which make 20 minutes frequency pretty much impossible as the driver has to change ends, passengers have to get off, and there would need to be some contingency time as well.

There is a Dart Upgrade plan due for release shortly, maybe it will contain some details.

Victor

loyatemu wrote: »

It's a single line track, and currently it takes 10 minutes to get from Bray to Greystones, which make 20 minutes frequency pretty much impossible as the driver has to change ends, passengers have to get off, and there would need to be some contingency time as well.

Passing loops could be added north and south on the stretch of tunnels.

jpd

Why not build a new 2 track tunnel under Bray Head, although the single track through the north end of Greystones might still be a problem?

Victor

jpd wrote: »

Why not build a new 2 track tunnel under Bray Head

€€€

fortwilliam

Perhaps these changes will put an end to two buses driving around the same (80%) circuit behind each other every hour/30 mins...

It baffles me every time I see it.

CaoimheSquee

fortwilliam wrote: »

Perhaps these changes will put an end to two buses driving around the same (80%) circuit behind each other every hour/30 mins...

It baffles me every time I see it.

Absolutely baffling! And incredibly annoying!

Annasopra

Anyone goto Simon Harriss meeting in The Whale?

Victor

loyatemu wrote: »

the main complaint I've heard about the new local routes is that 201 doesn't go through Kilpedder like the 184 does (only in one direction though). This seems easily changed with minimal impact on journey time.

Should the 201 / 202 go via Kilpedder? What is the best way for the routes to operate between Kilpedder and Greystones - via Glenview Hotel, Glen Road (difficult turn off N11), Farrankelly Road?

Annasopra

Victor wrote: »

Should the 201 / 202 go via Kilpedder? What is the best way for the routes to operate between Kilpedder and Greystones - via Glenview Hotel, Glen Road (difficult turn off N11), Farrankelly Road?

I think they made a mistake on it. The maps were wrong apparebtly.