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Dunnes self service and a big bag of copper coins

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2

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    #32
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Alpha_zero wrote: »
    Ok but the cashier will ask you to pay for your goods, what's the definition of a debt again

    You are paying for something immediately. No debt is incurred. (Except perhaps with your credit card company).

    Op, I’d use the Tesco coin machine. See the percentage as a small cost to get a service.


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    #33
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Alpha_zero wrote: »
    Does the constitution say that there is 50 coin maximum? The OP should buy one at Dunnes.

    The constitution doesn’t mention this kind of stuff at all.


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    #34
    Alpha_zero
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Alpha_zero


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    The constitution doesn’t mention this kind of stuff at all.

    I'd be surprised if it doesn't mention legal Tender, of which is will state both coins and bank notes suffice as that


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    #35
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Alpha_zero wrote: »
    I'd be surprised if it doesn't mention legal Tender, of which is will state both coins and bank notes suffice as that

    For debt payments.


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    #36
    mickjohnlong
    Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭mickjohnlong


    Sinus pain wrote:
    The % is always taken. The machine calculates the % before you get your voucher so regardless of whether you spend the money on goods or cash out the percentage is taken. The self scans will take as many coins as you feed them - I worked in Tesco cash office for years - the self scans in Tesco recycle the coins except for the 2 c and 20c ( that was back in my day anyways) so lots of coin is always welcome. It won’t let you over pay though so just use it a couple of times


    The coinstar machines I have used in Tesco are % if you are just getting cash. Or full value if you use the voucher in the shop.


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    #37
    May Contain Small Parts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 124 ✭✭May Contain Small Parts


    Alpha_zero wrote: »
    Ok but the cashier will ask you to pay for your goods, what's the definition of a debt again

    You haven't taken or consumed anything yet. It's still in their shop, you just happen to be holding it. The item still has exactly the same value to the shop that it always did.

    If you were to leave the shop with the item or start eating their cookies then you would create a debt.

    Alternatively, when order in a restaurant then you are creating a debt because once they start to prepare the food it's lost value to the restaurant.

    So yeah. Bottom line is that if there is no debt then they can just refuse the transaction. If there is a debt then they can demand that it be paid in legal tender, rather than regular money.


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    #38
    Alpha_zero
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Alpha_zero


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    For debt payments.

    When the cashier runs the items you intend to buy through the till, or the self service machine you will be asked to pay for those items.

    It is not fair to assume that you owe them payment therefore you have incurred a debt, of which the constitution states that coins are legal tender to cover said debt. I am not sure if it comes with the caveat of a 50 coin limit.


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    #39
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 69,014 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    It's not in the constitution. You do not understand the legislation here at all.


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    #40
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    The 50 coin limit is in the Economic and Monetary Act of 1998, not the constitution (as previously pointed out already by an earlier poster).


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    #41
    Alpha_zero
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Alpha_zero


    L1011 wrote: »
    It's not in the constitution. You do not understand the legislation here at all.

    You think store policy trumps the constitution


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    #42
    Alpha_zero
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Alpha_zero


    dudara wrote: »
    The 50 coin limit is in the Economic and Monetary Act of 1998, not the constitution (as previously pointed out already by an earlier poster).
    OK


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    #43
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Alpha_zero wrote: »
    When the cashier runs the items you intend to buy through the till, or the self service machine you will be asked to pay for those items.

    It is not fair to assume that you owe them payment therefore you have incurred a debt, of which the constitution states that coins are legal tender to cover said debt. I am not sure if it comes with the caveat of a 50 coin limit.

    You seem to not grasp the simple fact that there is no debt created in a cash sale in a shop. Your assumption of a debt is incorrect. It's also not in the constitution.


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    #44
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    dudara wrote: »
    The onus is on you to provide payment of your debt, within the 50 coin limit. In excess of 50 coins does not constitute legal tender

    Simple way around that is to pay for each item individually....Im sure the cashier will then accept all the coins together.:cool:


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    #45
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    Alpha_zero wrote: »
    When the cashier runs the items you intend to buy through the till, or the self service machine you will be asked to pay for those items.

    It is not fair to assume that you owe them payment therefore you have incurred a debt, of which the constitution states that coins are legal tender to cover said debt. I am not sure if it comes with the caveat of a 50 coin limit.

    You need to understand the legal meaning of debt. I assure you it is not created in a normal retail transaction.

    But reasonableness comes into play in the retail sphere.

    Legally a shop does not have to give you change if you give a €50 note for a €10. However a retailer who did that would not survive long, hence reasonableness and established practice come into play.

    But strictly on a legal point, no change has to be given and a retailer can decide whether or not to accept any form of cash.


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    #46
    Ted_YNWA
    Registered Users Posts: 71,799 ✭✭✭✭Ted_YNWA


    Staplor wrote: »
    Just take it easy, too many coins will jam the machine

    Yep, I am guilty of doing this. I did go a bit overboard with the coins. Can't remember if it exceeded 50, but wouldn't have been too far off it.


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    #47
    Ursus Horribilis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    I've used the self-service to get rid of loads of small coins. Never €30 in 5c pieces though. I refuse on principle to use those extortionate coin converting machines in the supermarket.


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    #48
    BuboBubo
    Registered Users Posts: 927 ✭✭✭BuboBubo


    You could do a few trips using a fistfull of coins for each transaction. If the transaction is €26 use €3 worth of change then pay balance by card for example. You'll get through those coins eventually.

    Or else, bag them up and bring them to your local bank. The canteen in my workplace will change bagged coins (they count/check them because some dirtbag actually conned them before - how miserable can ye get!) Local shops might take a few bagged or even loose coins from you too.

    Tip them out onto the table and get bagging. Or spread them out over a few transactions.


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    #49
    yesto24
    Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭yesto24


    Alpha_zero wrote: »
    Sorry I don't have my copy of the Irish constitution to hand.

    You should buy one, it's not that expensive.
    You could easily pay for it with less than 50 coins.


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    #50
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,994 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Alpha_zero wrote: »
    When the cashier runs the items you intend to buy through the till, or the self service machine you will be asked to pay for those items.

    That's invitation to treat. The shop is asking you for x and then you can pay x or offer y and see what they accept.
    Alpha_zero wrote: »
    It is not fair to assume that you owe them payment therefore you have incurred a debt, of which the constitution states that coins are legal tender to cover said debt. I am not sure if it comes with the caveat of a 50 coin limit.

    You need to pay for the items but you don't owe them anything as they still own the items. If you put fuel into your car you'll then have a debt to pay but the 50 coin limit will apply.


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    #51
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    Ursus Horribilis wrote: »
    I refuse on principle to use those extortionate coin converting machines in the supermarket.

    I don't think it's extortionate


    Banks charge 2.45% to lodge coins but it has to be counted and sorted into full bags.

    Coinstar charge 9.9%, but you can dump everything in without sorting and counting.

    Probably an unfair example, but I'm in retail and over a year we get an amount of 1c, 2c and 5c coins which we don't use.

    So about once a year I lob it all into a Coinstar and cash it out. The net cost is 7.45%

    I would suspect it would take 5/6 hours to sort and count the coin even with aid of a machine.

    Last drop was about €300, net cost about €25. Worth every cent.


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    #52
    May Contain Small Parts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 124 ✭✭May Contain Small Parts


    Given the move to automated transactions in banks, I really don't understand why they don't have coin machines in branches...or why we're not demanding them.


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    #53
    Maz2016
    Registered Users Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭Maz2016


    Sinus pain wrote: »
    The % is always taken. The machine calculates the % before you get your voucher so regardless of whether you spend the money on goods or cash out the percentage is taken. The self scans will take as many coins as you feed them - I worked in Tesco cash office for years - the self scans in Tesco recycle the coins except for the 2 c and 20c ( that was back in my day anyways) so lots of coin is always welcome. It won’t let you over pay though so just use it a couple of times

    Not entirely true. I used coin star in my local Tesco’s. It did charge the 9.9% and printed off the voucher. When I presented it at the till (bought bread and milk) the 9.9% was re-added to the voucher. So my understanding is if you just had the voucher in to be refunded - you lose out on the 9.9% but if you put it towards your shopping the fee is waived. That was last September. May be different now


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    #54
    Sinus pain
    Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Sinus pain


    It must have changed so - when I worked there the receipt would have the amount minus the commission printed on the receipt. This is the amount that the till would take - no matter what the transaction was - purchase or exchange. We sometimes would need to tally these vouchers if tills were out so I know 100% that the till only ever recognized the printed amount ie the amount minus commission. Things may have changed though I’ve left 3 years ago.

    A colleague of mine told me she was gonna bring in a bottle of €2 she had saved for her hols to throw in one of those Coinstars. I told her not to to bring it to me and I would count it- we had a counting and bagging machine in the office- she had over €1000 in it and would have lost about 90-100 euro had she of used it!


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    #55
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,994 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Sinus pain wrote: »
    A colleague of mine told me she was gonna bring in a bottle of €2 she had saved for her hols to throw in one of those Coinstars. I told her not to to bring it to me and I would count it- we had a counting and bagging machine in the office- she had over €1000 in it and would have lost about 90-100 euro had she of used it!

    Last time I counted my shrapnel I just counted out 1 bag of each coin and then weighed it. Then I just poured the coins until got the correct amount, much easier and quicker than counting each individual bag. Lost the note I had with the weights so will have to do it again and not lose the weights this time.


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    #56
    worded
    Registered Users Posts: 4,579 ✭✭✭worded


    There is a 10 euro off voucher in the Sunday’s Indo today

    So go in and get 50 euro of goods and scan the voucher and now the bill is 40 euros.

    Buy something non perishable items to the value of what ever you want to get a refund on

    Go back to Dunnes and req a refund

    You are up 10 Euro with the voucher
    You get all your coins cashed

    :-)


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    #57
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,457 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    worded wrote: »
    There is a 10 euro off voucher in the Sunday’s Indo today

    So go in and get 50 euro of goods and scan the voucher and now the bill is 40 euros.

    Buy something non perishable items to the value of what ever you want to get a refund on

    Go back to Dunnes and req a refund

    You are up 10 Euro with the voucher
    You get all your coins cashed

    :-)

    Nice try but the Ts & Cs in the voucher say that if you return goods such that the value of the original purchase goes below the threshold (€50 in your example), the value of the voucher is deducted from the refund.


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    #58
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    If you have tons of coins get a few coin bags from the AIB.

    Count the coins into the right amounts for a bag and take them into the AIB. They are probably the only bank that still change coins for non customers and dont require you pay them into an account.

    Think the max is 6-8 bags in one go however so it may take several trips.


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    #59
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    CeilingFly wrote: »
    I don't think it's extortionate


    Banks charge 2.45% to lodge coins but it has to be counted and sorted into full bags.

    Coinstar charge 9.9%, but you can dump everything in without sorting and counting.

    Probably an unfair example, but I'm in retail and over a year we get an amount of 1c, 2c and 5c coins which we don't use.

    So about once a year I lob it all into a Coinstar and cash it out. The net cost is 7.45%

    I would suspect it would take 5/6 hours to sort and count the coin even with aid of a machine.

    Last drop was about €300, net cost about €25. Worth every cent.

    Yeh. My feeling too.

    Amazing number of people think they are handing in 101.20€ and they want all of that back.

    But it’s like any other service, you are saving time and effort, so they take a cut.


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    #60
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    If you have tons of coins get a few coin bags from the AIB.

    Count the coins into the right amounts for a bag and take them into the AIB. They are probably the only bank that still change coins for non customers and dont require you pay them into an account.

    Think the max is 6-8 bags in one go however so it may take several trips.

    You are valuing your own personal time pretty low there.


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    #61
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 69,014 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Depends how fast you count coins, whether you're in the bank anyway and where the coinstar machine is.

    When I worked shift work and there was one on my commute I used it weekly but now I'm going to the bank for cheque lodgements it's easier to bag and lodge.


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