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What could Ireland do to emulate Croatia's success

2

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,849 ✭✭✭764dak


    I think tough lives make good athletes too, these guys went through a lot of **** with war - focuses the mind.

    Irish kids are lazy and addicted to their phones and game consoles.

    Same reason poor countries produce great footballers, it's all they do cos it's all they have.
    Which poor countries with low populations have good teams?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,849 ✭✭✭764dak



    Croatia also seem to rely very little on the granny rule and the majority of their squad has come through the Croatian league, by comparison we usually have almost half a squad who are born in England or Scotland.

    Only four in the Croatian squad were born overseas:

    808x1206_cmsv2_416e76f9-0033-50a8-a834-dd007ff1a95c-3182584.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,426 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Just on the "it's the GAA's fault" aspect of this thread.

    I coach/help with both underage soccer and underage GAA locally.

    When it comes to organisation the GAA are streets ahead of the soccer club.
    The soccer is a shambles.

    Interestingly a few months ago us soccer coaches were asked our opinion on underage soccer moving to a summer schedule (an FAI proposal), so that the club could bring it to whatever county meeting it was being decided at.

    Unamonusly the coaches thought it was a bad idea for the simple reason it would clash with the GAA season and the kids liked playing GAA in the summer and soccer in the winter, they could play both.

    The chairman responded saying that's exactly why soccer should move to summer, so that soccer can go head to head against the GAA

    So who exactly is trying to stop kids play both ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,366 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    764dak wrote: »
    Only four in the Croatian squad were born overseas:

    808x1206_cmsv2_416e76f9-0033-50a8-a834-dd007ff1a95c-3182584.jpg

    Ricardo Carvalho was neither foreign born nor in Portugal's World Cup Squad. He's in his 40's now. Think they mean William?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,849 ✭✭✭764dak


    8-10 wrote: »
    764dak wrote: »
    Only four in the Croatian squad were born overseas:

    808x1206_cmsv2_416e76f9-0033-50a8-a834-dd007ff1a95c-3182584.jpg

    Ricardo Carvalho was neither foreign born nor in Portugal's World Cup Squad. He's in his 40's now. Think they mean William?
    It's William.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Hannibal wrote: »
    You would imagine they're being taught technical football from a young age similar to the other former Yugoslav countries. Modric is more skillful than any player to ever line out for us and before him there was the likes of Boban and Prosinecki.


    Their squad has players playing in the top flights of England, Spain, Germany, Italy and France whereas our players just stay in England and drift between the divisions.
    And Boksic .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    That really is scraping the barrel in terms of excuses. It's not language ability that is stopping Irish players from moving to continental European clubs, it's the lack of technical ability.

    Never said it's the only factor, just that it's part of a broader scale of them. The UK is all that is on our radars here as far as making it abroad goes really. Culture, which language is part of, is a part of that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,426 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Never said it's the only factor, just that it's part of a broader scale of them. The UK is all that is on our radars here as far as making it abroad goes really. Culture, which language is part of, is a part of that.


    That is very true

    I'm sure life is not easy for a young kid aged 18 or less trying to make it in the cutthroat world of professional sport.

    Many comeback home because of homesickness and/or become delousioned with the whole process. We don't hear much about these guys.

    Settling in in the UK is likely much easier because of the cultural and language similarities that exist there and not on the continent.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,195 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    Croatian club football has 72 teams competing in 3 leagues most of their international team players play professional football for top teams throughout European football. Irish players won't be lining out for Real Madrid, Juventus, AC Milan or Inter Milan we have no players bar Coleman in the Premier League good enough to produce a regular performance the rest are hit and miss.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,965 ✭✭✭✭Gavin "shels"


    764dak wrote: »
    How many play professionally?

    Who's at fault for that in your opinion? The Irish fans and their disregard for their own League, the FAI or the LoI clubs themselves?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 24,015 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Just on the "it's the GAA's fault" aspect of this thread.

    I coach/help with both underage soccer and underage GAA locally.

    When it comes to organisation the GAA are streets ahead of the soccer club.
    The soccer is a shambles.

    Interestingly a few months ago us soccer coaches were asked our opinion on underage soccer moving to a summer schedule (an FAI proposal), so that the club could bring it to whatever county meeting it was being decided at.

    Unamonusly the coaches thought it was a bad idea for the simple reason it would clash with the GAA season and the kids liked playing GAA in the summer and soccer in the winter, they could play both.

    The chairman responded saying that's exactly why soccer should move to summer, so that soccer can go head to head against the GAA

    So who exactly is trying to stop kids play both ?

    With holidays and camps the summer is a terrible time for any underage sport, most underage GAA Championships are finished by now, the Feile for example was finished about a month ago


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,287 ✭✭✭✭citytillidie


    764dak wrote: »
    Only four in the Croatian squad were born overseas:

    808x1206_cmsv2_416e76f9-0033-50a8-a834-dd007ff1a95c-3182584.jpg

    I would not count Dejan Lovern or Vedran Corluka as they were born before Yugoslavia broke apart.

    ******



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,975 ✭✭✭Deise Vu


    I think tough lives make good athletes too, these guys went through a lot of **** with war - focuses the mind.

    Irish kids are lazy and addicted to their phones and game consoles.

    Same reason poor countries produce great footballers, it's all they do cos it's all they have.

    The first line is it in a nutshell although I don't agree that Irish kids are lazy. Its just that they have so much more to distract them so inevitably they will spend five hours on Fortnite when a Croatian kid is kicking a ball against a wall or playing three-goals-in with his mates. A Croatian kid would do the same if they had the same distractions.

    Also, a huge factor is that Irish kids will watch Instagram and Youtube videos of overhead kicks and Rabonas but will fall asleep 10 minutes into a live football match so they have utterly no idea how a match develops and will almost always try to play North / South football. The concept of passing the ball sideways and probing the wings is completely alien to them. I am afraid Patience for modern kids are people in hospital.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,597 ✭✭✭Ferris_Bueller


    Hannibal wrote: »

    I always wondered how many of our promising kids are lost in the English system and have lost the motivation to play when they miss the cut at big clubs. Fair play to Daniel Cleary for jumping in at Dundalk... John Paul Kelly I remember captaining Liverpool reserves then disappeared after a season at Bohs.

    Yeah exactly, I would hazard a guess that a lot of these guys have the potential to be good enough but we are essentially just handing the responsibility of developing our players over to another country who don't really care. John Paul Kelly is probably a good example, I would hazard a guess that he was good enough to have at least a good career in the LoI but after going to Liverpool for 3 or 4 years he comes back broken and a lot of these lads just drop out altogether.

    It is a lottery for young footballers going over to England now, competing with the best players from every corner of the world. If players stayed in Ireland until they were 18 or 19 even then made the move across (even to a Championship/L1 side), would they have a better chance of making a career out of it?

    How many of our current squad came through the ranks at a big PL club? O'Shea, Brady, McShane, Duffy, Rice, Cunningham.. maybe a few others but most seem to have come through the lower tiers or the League of Ireland now.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,448 ✭✭✭evil_seed


    Is it down to the standard of football they play? All they're players play in top leagues across Europe.
    Most of ours are not making Premier league teams, they are Championship or lower.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,426 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    evil_seed wrote: »
    Is it down to the standard of football they play? All they're players play in top leagues across Europe.
    Most of ours are not making Premier league teams, they are Championship or lower.

    But what makes them good enough for the top teams in Europe and our players only good enough for the championship ?

    That's the question.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,862 ✭✭✭✭inforfun


    If you cant give your talented youth a proper football education here, then at least make sure they go anywhere but England.

    Of all the Dutch 15 year olds that went to England, most of them no one ever heard of them anymore or when they managed to get some kind of a break through they were getting that break years after the guys who stayed in Holland.

    Ake, Bruma, Rekik, De Vrij, Martins Indi, Kongolo all started around the same time at Feyenoord
    First 3 went to England, the others stayed at Feyenoord and all 3 became first team regulars age 18, playing EL and CL while Ake was playing with the u23's on monday at Chelsea, Bruma played for HSV II and Rekik i dont even know.

    De Vrij, BMI and Kongolo went to Brazil and finished 3rd, the other 3 went to mediamarkt and bought a tv to watch the WC.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    There are some very good set up's in Irish football at school boy level that are trying to do the right thing. When my son was playing five years ago, all the well known school boy clubs I watched would have kept it on the deck and focused on ball retention and passing. What I saw at that level and what I see at the senior level of the LOI are two completely different things. It seems to me like the LOI clubs are far more focused on the short term. The best way of winning in LOI football is to combine experienced domestic league footballers with the best of the returning Irish footballers from England who didn't make it. It seems if you are a technically minded teenager, you will struggle to get a look in.

    True in the past, but very outdated. Dundalk have played highly technical football over the past 5 years, completely focused on ball retention and passing.

    And even then, good technical players have generally been able to flourish in the league. Shels league winning teams with Hoolahan and Ndo for example. But there was always a focus on defensive British style football, but Dundalk have completely moved away from that.


  • Posts: 5,518 [Deleted User]


    inforfun wrote: »
    If you cant give your talented youth a proper football education here, then at least make sure they go anywhere but England.

    Of all the Dutch 15 year olds that went to England, most of them no one ever heard of them anymore or when they managed to get some kind of a break through they were getting that break years after the guys who stayed in Holland.

    Ake, Bruma, Rekik, De Vrij, Martins Indi, Kongolo all started around the same time at Feyenoord
    First 3 went to England, the others stayed at Feyenoord and all 3 became first team regulars age 18, playing EL and CL while Ake was playing with the u23's on monday at Chelsea, Bruma played for HSV II and Rekik i dont even know.

    De Vrij, BMI and Kongolo went to Brazil and finished 3rd, the other 3 went to mediamarkt and bought a tv to watch the WC.

    which makes sense, until you look at Belgium.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Aegir wrote: »
    which makes sense, until you look at Belgium.

    How many of their team went to England before age 18?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 840 ✭✭✭micks


    Aegir wrote: »
    That’s a bit aggressive, is that normal for this forum?

    I maybe didn’t make my point very clearly, At 15/16 they have a choice, but then what? What happens when they fail to make the cut after that? Find one of the very few other clubs (who also have younger age teams) or stop playing football.

    agressive? :eek:
    I picked U16 because that is the agegroup nationally at all sports codes where participation drop off starts - not because clubs dont accommodate them

    I'll translate it for you Cabinteely have 6 teams for a 15/16 yo
    4 yth teams for a 17 yo

    can you tell me how many GAA teams have 6 U16 teams and 4 minor teams?

    And you say they dont accommodate all abilities?

    What more do you want them to do?



    At U16 they have a team in the bottom DDSL division up to national league level in LOI U15 & U17


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    This question has been asked for a long time. At various times. substitute the word Croatia for the likes of Uruguay, Greece, Costa Rica, Bulgaria or whatever

    If we lose so much talent to Gaelic Football, why is the All-Ireland Gaelic Football championship is so utterly atrocious? 99% of the time, it's dire stuff!

    In any case, we're already trying to emulate Croatia's success. Ruud Dokter is doing a lot of work, but it will take a long time to see any results from it at international level and a lot longer for it to fully mature!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,195 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    Croatian population similar to ours might be the reason this question is being asked


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,862 ✭✭✭✭inforfun


    Aegir wrote: »
    which makes sense, until you look at Belgium.

    Explain?

    Who of this Belgium team went to Engeland age 15?
    I know a few of them went to The Netherlands at that age


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 840 ✭✭✭micks


    Laois_Man wrote: »
    This question has been asked for a long time. At various times. substitute the word Croatia for the likes of Uruguay, Greece, Costa Rica, Bulgaria or whatever

    If we lose so much talent to Gaelic Football, why is the All-Ireland Gaelic Football championship is so utterly atrocious? 99% of the time, it's dire stuff!

    In any case, we're already trying to emulate Croatia's success. Ruud Dokter is doing a lot of work, but it will take a long time to see any results from it at international level and a lot longer for it to fully mature!

    One of the big problems in this country has been that for approx 40 of the last 50 years the LOI clubs have not cared one bit about underage / schoolboy football.
    Very few of these LOI clubs were actual clubs ie had little outside of the senior mens teams
    Club licensing was prob the turning point of that but IMO LOI clubs were given a loop hole which too many took up - using another underage clubs as their own

    Ruud Dokter is trying to fix that problem however its difficult to know at what cost
    Underage football was fairly strong in Ireland predominantly with DDSL clubs and the LOI underage national leagues may be detrimental to those existing clubs
    Also its difficult to see how many LOI clubs will cope financially with the extra burden the underage sections that have developed overnight will place on them.

    Things possibly improving but time will tell
    The FAI have completely overhauled the structures ove the past 10-15 yrs with the likes of the regional development officers and emerging talent program

    The FAI wanting all football played through the summer is nothing to do with the GAA it is to have all leagues aligned with the LOI in particular
    DDSL switched last year and it practically wiped out U17 & U18 which is no youths as the overlap from summer underage to winter senior meant underage teams discontinued when players left mid season to play senior


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,210 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Deedsie wrote: »
    I hate the anti GAA stuff in this thread... Surely that attitude is as bad as the behaviour of some GAA people.

    The simple fact that the GAA exists affects football. It's the dominant sport in the country and football in countries like Croatia don't have any similar sports to compete with. It's definitely a factor in why we are at the level we find ourselves.


  • Posts: 5,518 [Deleted User]


    inforfun wrote: »
    Explain?

    Who of this Belgium team went to Engeland age 15?
    I know a few of them went to The Netherlands at that age

    that's true, I made the assumption that because of the number of Belgians in the english leagues and the various tie ups between premiership clubs and Belgian clubs, there were more coming over in to academies, but it seems they sign at an early age, not a junior age (if that makes sense).

    maybe that is something the LoI should look at, rather than losing players to England, keeping them for longer, but acting as feeder clubs. Working with the big leagues rather than trying to compete against them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,597 ✭✭✭Ferris_Bueller


    If this thread and the one in the world cup forum show anything it's that there are a lot of problems in Irish football and many reasons why we aren't capable of emulating Croatia anytime soon. A basic question I will ask though, do enough people really care about Irish football? How many people go to LoI games on a regular basis, how many go to Irish international games, how many are involved in coaching/administration etc? Most people just watch the premier league on the telly and that is as far as their interest goes and then have a bit of a moan when Ireland go out and beat Moldova 1-0 and play crap football.

    The League of Ireland is key if we ever want to really push on. We currently have the 39th ranked league in Europe (out of 54), just ahead of Estonia and Latvia and just below Iceland, Macedonia and Finland. Croatia by comparison are 16th sandwiched between Greece and Denmark.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    If this thread and the one in the world cup forum show anything it's that there are a lot of problems in Irish football and many reasons why we aren't capable of emulating Croatia anytime soon. A basic question I will ask though, do enough people really care about Irish football? How many people go to LoI games on a regular basis, how many go to Irish international games, how many are involved in coaching/administration etc? Most people just watch the premier league on the telly and that is as far as their interest goes and then have a bit of a moan when Ireland go out and beat Moldova 1-0 and play crap football.

    The League of Ireland is key if we ever want to really push on. We currently have the 39th ranked league in Europe (out of 54), just ahead of Estonia and Latvia and just below Iceland, Macedonia and Finland. Croatia by comparison are 16th sandwiched between Greece and Denmark.

    Well if you are comparing us to Croatia, the average attendance in the LOI top division is 1,900 whereas in Crotia it is 3,000 and that is dragged up somewhat by the big crowds that Hadjuk Split get. Attendances in the second tier are slightly higher in Ireland.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,862 ✭✭✭✭inforfun


    Croatians arent going to their league by the millions either:

    22d9760e1e8cee70cb56e68decbb2dd0.png


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    inforfun wrote: »
    Croatians arent going to their league by the millions either:

    22d9760e1e8cee70cb56e68decbb2dd0.png

    Take Hadjuk out of that and it looks pretty similar to LOI attendances.

    Cork, Rovers, Dundalk, Derry, Bohs, Waterford all average above 2000. Only 4 teams manage that in Croatia.

    It's pretty typical in these sorts of threads, posters throw out these comments that sound reasonable on the face of it, but they're actually not backed up with evidence whatsoever. "Croatian football is better than Irish because nobody goes to LOI games" - rubbish.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,597 ✭✭✭Ferris_Bueller


    Amirani wrote: »
    Take Hadjuk out of that and it looks pretty similar to LOI attendances.

    Cork, Rovers, Dundalk, Derry, Bohs, Waterford all average above 2000. Only 4 teams manage that in Croatia.

    It's pretty typical in these sorts of threads, posters throw out these comments that sound reasonable on the face of it, but they're actually not backed up with evidence whatsoever. "Croatian football is better than Irish because nobody goes to LOI games" - rubbish.

    I admit I was wrong on this comparison, but they still achieve bigger crowds on average than we do and they are a smaller country so not completely irrelevant. But I think the fact that they have a stronger domestic league is definitely a factor.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,421 ✭✭✭major bill


    GAA is irrelevant in this argument, don't see how they can be blamed and it's a defeatist attitude, when you have an football organisation that takes as much out of the game as they put in then you can't be blaming other sports.

    For starters we have no real football pyramid in this country. Senior football is separated from the lower levels, this should change. The FAI under 19, 17, 15 leagues are good ideas but don't agree that they should be at the expense of Crumlin, St Kevins, Joey's etc , traditional schoolboy clubs that have been at this business for years. Open up the National League structure at senior level and include them into underage leagues.

    This will mean the FAI taking a hit on affiliation fees etc cos no intermediate club would bother their holes entering the league in it's current setup.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,965 ✭✭✭✭Gavin "shels"


    Amirani wrote: »
    Take Hadjuk out of that and it looks pretty similar to LOI attendances.

    Cork, Rovers, Dundalk, Derry, Bohs, Waterford all average above 2000. Only 4 teams manage that in Croatia.

    It's pretty typical in these sorts of threads, posters throw out these comments that sound reasonable on the face of it, but they're actually not backed up with evidence whatsoever. "Croatian football is better than Irish because nobody goes to LOI games" - rubbish.

    Attendances are a small bit of the problem. How much do Croatian clubs get paid for winning the League? TV Rights? etc... Do they pay €17,000 a year to enter their League? That's probably were huge gap would be thus causing issues for signing/keeping players, etc...


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,210 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Deedsie wrote: »
    So mono culture is your answer? Gaelic football is just as important to Irish culture as soccer is. The main difference is it is administered properly.

    I've no idea where you got that idea from. I simply stated a fact. I never mentioned anything about culture. There are plenty of other sports in Croatia, as has been pointed out in this thread, but none are as dominant as GAA is in Ireland. The GAA is always going to take away form other field sports. If football was the dominant sport in this country rather than GAA we'd be much better at it on the international stage. However it isn't and that's not going to change anytime soon.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,843 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Sure they used to batter kids for having an interest in football. Look at how they treated Liam Brady. Cvnts.

    I went to the same school....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,198 ✭✭✭Talisman


    Well we cant blame population anymore. Does Croatia have anything that Ireland does not have? Was it a fluke that they reached the final?
    The FAI and League of Ireland clubs have always been shortsighted. Things are changing in terms of the infrastructure of soccer in Ireland but it's nearly 70 years late.

    In the 1950s soccer was a massive sport in Ireland, the FAI and the club owners never considered building for the future or otherwise the gravy train might end. In contrast, the GAA recognised the need to modernise in so far as the culture of the country was changing and they had to adapt with it.

    In the 1960s Irish soccer was still strong, league games had attendances of 20,000 and more. In 1967, Shamrock Rovers got to within 5 minutes of knocking Bayern Munich out of the Cup Winners Cup - if I remember correctly Bayern fielded 5 of the players from the 1966 World Cup Final.

    In the 50s and 60s players used to travel from England to play for Irish clubs. The Irish clubs were on a par with the rest of Europe but things came crashing down in the 1970s and have never recovered. There was no investment in the infrastructure of the game and when television offered a better product, soccer died. In contrast the GAA ingrained itself in the community and that culture exists to this day.

    If you want to look at the history of the game in Europe for a blueprint to follow then Holland is worth looking at - Sunday League domestic game to World Cup Finalists in 20 years. Before 1955, the Dutch league was purely amateur Sunday league level. Within 10 years Rinus Michels was introducing Total Football at Ajax, his style established an identity for the team which was also adapted by the national team. In the 1970s Holland played in two World Cup Finals.

    Croatia are similar in that Dinamo Zagreb has provided the core of the national team.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,345 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    Amirani wrote: »
    Our development pathways for young players have traditionally been terrible. Whilst our domestic leagues have been of a similar standard for quite some time, Croatian teams have been consistently better able to retain and develop players at young ages. Our model has always been to ship young teenagers off to English academies (not the most positive technical environment) at the earliest opportunity - and England have suffered some of the same developmental problems as us, and only really hid their shortcomings through one of the largest playing populations in world football.

    This has changed a bit in recent years, and the FAI in fairness to them have taken a much more wholesome view of developing talent here. There's national development panels and leagues, and there's more of a focus on National League clubs developing players all the way through, rather than junior clubs just trying to act as a shop window so they can make a few quid. Things won't change overnight, but things should get better. England have also done great work at underage levels, and are probably a bit ahead of us in this regard - they have some very strong underage sides at the moment.

    ^This

    Plenty of really good stuff going on at underage these days. It has taken it's time and it'll probably take another 5-10 years before we see some serious results from it. But there is much better coaching, a much better infrastructure and a much better plan than there was not so long ago.

    I regularly watch games in the U15 Airtricity League and kids are getting a very good standard of coaching these days.

    The FAI really need to get their arses in gear and make sure all the good work by Dokter and his predecessor pays off. They need to pump money in LOI clubs to help them up their game.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,426 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Deedsie wrote: »
    I hate the anti GAA stuff in this thread... Surely that attitude is as bad as the behaviour of some GAA people.

    The truth of it is our football association is dreadfully organised... We have no proper academy systems under age like other countries have. We dont invest our money wisely. JD's wages etc Why blame the GAA for being succesful, why not copy some aspects of their approach.

    Irish people are tribal, pride of place means a lot. The intercounty aspect of the GAA could work very well for soccer in Ireland. If all the district leagues were represented at a higher level by a team picked primarily from those leagues, supporters could get behind those teams in a true league of Ireland setting.


    For example a semi pro North Tipperary team could be competitive and in time could garner a bigger support base than any of the individual clubs in that county. That team could compete in a league of Ireland that has teams all over the country.

    The county structure and rivilary of the GAA has been developed for over a century.

    It started with club champions represting their county, it involved by allowing those club champions field players from other clubs in the county, it eveloved into the represantitive structure we have today.

    It would take a long time for the public to develop an affinity for a team and for such rivalaries to take hold in a soccer version of the GAA county structure .

    It did not happen overnight in the GAA and will not happen overnight in soccer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,965 ✭✭✭✭Gavin "shels"


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Irish people are tribal, pride of place means a lot. The intercounty aspect of the GAA could work very well for soccer in Ireland. If all the district leagues were represented at a higher level by a team picked primarily from those leagues, supporters could get behind those teams in a true league of Ireland setting.

    For example a semi pro North Tipperary team could be competitive and in time could garner a bigger support base than any of the individual clubs in that county. That team could compete in a league of Ireland that has teams all over the country.

    Like Kilkenny City, Kildare County, Monaghan Utd, etc... all teams who've gone before us from the LoI. All teams who had about 50-100 fans at games...

    Then the likes of Wexford, Waterford, Limerick, etc... who've all gone bust and rehashed themselves.

    All regional teams...


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,423 Mod ✭✭✭✭DM_7


    Heard Duff on Newstalk yesterday.

    It was interesting to hear him talk about ego in kids and how he won't work with them for long if they don't shape up.

    It was sad to hear him look to the playstation excuse for players not developing.

    Sure ecomomically things are differant but it is a failure in football structures to blame rather than availabilty of a console or phone.

    The Iceland example is important to look at. They are reliant on indoor facilities.

    Yet on places they have used this to create a great system for getting kids active after school and effectively offer childcare to many families for a few hours. Surely getting kids into sport from 3 to 6 after school would have great benefits from health pov and potential sporting success.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2018/05/11/story-behind-icelands-assault-world-football/

    Even basic stuff like actual teachers, with UEFA training looking after kids sounds ideal. All kida included is really fantastic to read about.


    The ego talk in that article is interesting, Ireland are at a low point now where there should be no shame in work ethic, knowledge sharing, etc.

    Right now, for health reasons Ireland needs to consider something like this at government/local government level rather than a reliance on clubs to come up with the answer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    You need poverty and dictatorships to create great footballers.

    We have neither.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,558 ✭✭✭✭yabadabado


    You need leadership and a plan to create great footballers.

    We have neither.

    FYP


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,423 Mod ✭✭✭✭DM_7




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭purplepanda


    The simple fact that the GAA exists affects football. It's the dominant sport in the country and football in countries like Croatia don't have any similar sports to compete with. It's definitely a factor in why we are at the level we find ourselves.

    Most European countries don't have popular field sports such as Rugby, Cricket or even Field Hockey competing with Football, however usually there are other very popular national sports in certain countries & regions, such as Ice Hockey / Bandy or Basketball as well as athletics, winter sports & individuals sports such as Tennis. Many top European football clubs actually run many teams in other competing sports so they don't see any problem with faciltating other games.

    Ireland is actually more similar to England with Hurling instead of Cricket & England having two codes of Rugby.

    Scotland only has Football & Rugby & compared to the 60's / 70's Football has gone rapidly down hill. Yet there is no GAA to blame at all & Shinty is a regional minority sport whilst Rugby is still way behind Football in popularity.

    Welsh Football has strong competition from Rugby, however many Welsh people follow both IME, but only recently has Wales started to become competitive in Football.

    Blaming the GAA, which actually doesn't have many dual counties / regions that play both Hurling & Football to a decent standard anyway for the failures of the FAI / LOI is a poor excuse.

    Calling for bans is stupid, what happens if Cricket again becomes popular in Ireland, should that be banned?

    There are still young Hurling, Gaelic Football & Rugby players being scouted for Football clubs in England, Australian Rules / Rugby & even American Football. Yet young exclusive Irish football players are not so sought after it seems?

    Getting youngsters & adults playing any physical sport is the most important thing, for fitness & well being, even if you personally don't care for a particular sport.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,948 ✭✭✭✭Mars Bar


    This was written in 2015. You can buy his full footballing curriculum online. I've had a sneak peak and I really want to buy it but it would cost me €60 with shipping. :(
    Romeo Jozak is Technical Director of the Croatian Football Federation. Previously he was the Academy Director of Dinamo Zagreb – recently ranked third best out of all academies in Europe. Romeo oversaw the development Luka Modrić, Eduardo da Silva, Vedran Ćorluka, Niko Kranjčar and Dejan Lovren. At age 41, he has already turned down offers from Arsenal to become their academy director and the Irish FA to become their technical director. Romeo’s opinions on the game represent those of a soccer scientist with a Ph.D. education and extensive practical experience. He has become a regular and highly recommended practitioner at the NSCAA Convention.

    QUESTION: A youth coach here in the U.S. recently asked you for tactical advice coaching a 4-4-2 formation for his U9 team. What do you think the youth teaching development model should look like?

    Unfortunately quite a few countries are rushing in too much. I know at the age of 9 we want to compete, and maybe with a tall or fast kid at that age you want to adapt the tactics to win the game. Maybe he shouldn’t be there – in the future he will play somewhere else – but you keep him there to score goals, then you are getting tactical as opposed to focusing on technique to help players develop.

    People who volunteer a few hours at the end of the day to teach players aren’t automatically good coaches and their actions will have serious consequences on the future of that player. In Europe we don’t have as many volunteers and I appreciate the volunteer movement, but qualified people should be dealing with kids, if we are talking about the higher levels. At that level you need to make sacrifices – I might not like to get up early or to be pushed that hard – but to succeed at that level it will be required. Academies should be the heart of football and the most educated people should working at them.

    QUESTION: In the US we don’t mandate on a national level the size of games or a specific style of play. Is it different in Croatia?

    Yes we do, however we are talking about 4 million people and I know every academy director personally. This means it is way easier for me than it would be here. I’m convinced that if someone manages to do a similar direction in the US with hours, topics, demands and so on, you will be a great soccer country because the talent that I have seen here is great at the age of 11-13. It gets less at 14, then less at 15 and so on – the older they go they become less talented here. What that means is that we haven’t done enough throughout the education process because if anything they should be looking better at the older ages.



    QUESTION: Does Croatia have a certain style or brand of soccer that is different from other countries?

    The culture has always prioritized football so everyone is kicking the ball and follows the game. In the modern game this isn’t enough though: in the average 90 minute game players have it for less than 2 minutes each, so they are playing for 88 minutes without it. As Spain and Germany raise the level of the game we have to catch up, but with only 4.5 million people we don’t have a huge base to do that. But we have a great base of kids and good academies, with strong leadership from the federation, which gives as an overall equilibrium that looks ok. In the last twenty years we have been around the top ten teams in the world, which is a serious achievement for our size. What makes me happier is that, yes you know about Luka Modrić and Ivan Rakitić, but you don’t know these young guys at the 15-17 year age who will be our future. I watch them and am confident that the Croatian team of the future will be even better than it is now because we started with a development model that the whole country is working together to achieve.

    QUESTION: How often should academy level teams be training at the U9-10 age group in order to get to the highest levels of technical competency?

    They should be training 4-5 times each week :eek: and playing a game. Generally there are specific demands and parameters that should be in place to allow coaches to sleep at night knowing that they have done everything they can to help the players develop. They can’t control everything, but they will at least have tried to do everything they can within that time.

    QUESTION: How do you prioritize what they should be learning when there are so many different elements of the game?

    Up until the age of 10 you should be focusing only on individual technique, with a lot of playing time but with individual technique as a base. From 10-14 they should be mastering individual technique, meaning you should be able to detect what are your deficiencies, your strengths so we can take advantage of them. At 12 you should quite seriously implement dynamic and functional technique into the process of the game – functionally applying my individual technique; how to make something happen within the game. Then slowly from 12-15 you should be looking at more complicated passing actions, slowly taking away the number of touches they can take and working on individual solution-making. Tactically you can start to implement thinking forwards and backwards with three players, moving towards group thinking.

    Once they have the individual tools taken care of, together with combination plays, then you look at decision-making from 14 onwards, because that can’t be done unless you have the tools first. At this age they can go from group to team thinking in regards to tactics. From 16 you are then beginning to experience serious competition because the game until that age is only for development. From then on one of the priorities should be winning and getting points.

    QUESTION: Some coaches appear to prioritize physical development through the ages – with fitness, strength and speed training. Should that be factored into the model?

    Physicality only affects games if teams are equal technically and tactically. If we are a better team implementing the principles of the game, physicality will not be much of a factor. Here in the US you focus a lot on the physical demands, which can be important, but personally I would take that time and put it towards technical development.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,862 ✭✭✭✭inforfun


    I read all that with an Eastern- European accent in mind, of course.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Would there anything to be said for entering some Croatian DNA into the Irish herd ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,975 ✭✭✭Deise Vu


    blinding wrote: »
    Would there anything to be said for entering some Croatian DNA into the Irish herd ?

    If you could get 9 year olds to train 5 times a week then play a match and you could get coaches willing to give up that much time we wouldn't need anyone's DNA. That bit was a tad shocking for me. You might get some mad GAA lads willing to do that for the parish but soccer doesn't attract that kind of fanatical dedication.


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