Strategies for dealing with with coming autumn/winter

Who2

Scanned all my cows today and was delighted with a 30% empty rate, if it was any other year I’d be going crazy but I’ve everything calving February and March and from next week on I’m feeding empty’s that are sucking calves for finish. If I can get them gone by Christmas and allowing for what bales I’ve already eaten I should be back to a current deficit of 280 bales but I’ve 20 acres currently closed and nearly ready, should throw 7 bales to the acre and I’m shutting another 6 acres off tomorrow. Anything after that can be filled with meal. I’m starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel

valtra2

Who2 wrote: »

Scanned all my cows today and was delighted with a 30% empty rate, if it was any other year I’d be going crazy but I’ve everything calving February and March and from next week on I’m feeding empty’s that are sucking calves for finish. If I can get them gone by Christmas and allowing for what bales I’ve already eaten I should be back to a current deficit of 280 bales but I’ve 20 acres currently closed and nearly ready, should throw 7 bales to the acre and I’m shutting another 6 acres off tomorrow. Anything after that can be filled with meal. I’m starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel

Thats just the train......

Who2

valtra2 wrote: »

Thats just the train......

If it is I won’t need to worry about the cattle.

K.G.

Hopefully growth has.returned to most people and we can stop going backwards and start moving fowards.what are peoples strategies as regards covers/building covers/taking out bales.its trying to find the balance between taking any bale you can but not ending up feeding them early because you did and maximising feed for the winter

alps

K.G. wrote: »

Hopefully growth has.returned to most people and we can stop going backwards and start moving fowards.what are peoples strategies as regards covers/building covers/taking out bales.its trying to find the balance between taking any bale you can but not ending up feeding them early because you did and maximising feed for the winter

Feed now, as opposed to later...

It's available, and for certain it's cheaper than it will be in a few months time..

All silage ground closed here again with close up on 100 units N.....some of it overseeded with hybrid grasses, and hybrids on platform reared.. anything that can pump DM between here and April...we can return to conventional if next year comes normal..

Mooooo

Growth beginning to power on here, will keep cows at 6 kgs in parlour, putting 40 units out on silage ground and will bale as surpluses come. Could chance closing a bit and put out more but I think it may be better to take silage earlier as there may be more feeding in grass cut in August than September. Also a risk with some of this ground becoming difficult if rain becomes prolonged.
Will try and put youngstock out on the heavier ground for as long as possible in the backend as rarely get into it early in spring so will try and use it to shorten winter on this side. Will close other ground as normal for spring grass.

K.G.

Are ye sticking to usual dates for building covers/closin

Mooooo

I think it's probably best to, as was said earlier supplement silage straight away to get it to last into spring, at least if there is some cover in the spring you can try and get stock out for some few hours, if you graze late that won't be an option

GrasstoMilk

K.G. wrote: »

Are ye sticking to usual dates for building covers/closin

Yes. Thinking ATM to build up a big cover so we can graze till the first week of December and still close around 800 which what would usually be there on December 1st if we closed at 700 mid November. If we don't get to graze it it will be there for the spring

Bo dearg

What are options for feeding weanlings over the winter with limited silage. as it is I'm short 40% of winter feed. I'll gather up more but would rather keep it for cows and as cattle are on separate yard would prefer to supplement them and not both lots.

Robson99

Bo dearg wrote: »

What are options for feeding weanlings over the winter with limited silage. as it is I'm short 40% of winter feed. I'll gather up more but would rather keep it for cows and as cattle are on separate yard would prefer to supplement them and not both lots.

High protein ration16%. Failing that sell weanlings

Bass Reeves

Bo dearg wrote: »

What are options for feeding weanlings over the winter with limited silage. as it is I'm short 40% of winter feed. I'll gather up more but would rather keep it for cows and as cattle are on separate yard would prefer to supplement them and not both lots.

Have you many. If you had 20 of them you could put in 4 acres of rape. Time is against you however, you would want to be spraying today, discing in 48-72 hours and get seed in by middle of week.

Ration/nuts will be expensive expect to pay 280/ton+ for bulk and over 300 for bags for a decent ration. Mind you could pay the same for rubbish. Having said that weanlings will thrive on minimum silage and 3kgs of ration........but they will be bawling.

Lots of fellas will need earplugs in there yards this winter.

Timmaay

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Yes. Thinking ATM to build up a big cover so we can graze till the first week of December and still close around 800 which what would usually be there on December 1st if we closed at 700 mid November. If we don't get to graze it it will be there for the spring

I always find a serious bounce in growth at some stage following a drought, we have had some very dry Septembers previously where there has been no chance of building a wedge, however it can grow very well in October then to balance out as usual. So the dates here I'm not as pushed about. I'm lucky enough here to have a low mp Sr, I have 30ac of grass across the road here, no laneway etc, and it's usually too wet in the spring to graze so the aim would be to build up a tidy wedge on that and graze it tight into Dec.

Bo dearg

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Have you many. If you had 20 of them you could put in 4 acres of rape. Time is against you however, you would want to be spraying today, discing in 48-72 hours and get seed in by middle of week.

Ration/nuts will be expensive expect to pay 280/ton+ for bulk and over 300 for bags for a decent ration. Mind you could pay the same for rubbish. Having said that weanlings will thrive on minimum silage and 3kgs of ration........but they will be bawling.

Lots of fellas will need earplugs in there yards this winter.

Yea thought seriously about redstart but figured I'd be better try get silage off 12 acres and late grazing. That didn't work too well and only starting to grow now. Was thinking wheaten straw and ration but straw prices are crazy. quoted 230 a ton delivered

Dakota Dan

Mooooo wrote: »

Currently grazing second cut ground will be finished by the weekend. After tb breakdown here so looking like my sr on the whole farm will be down to just shy of 2.1 lu/ha. Have first cut untouched and maize to come along with 100 bales left., so looking at about 70 to 80% of winter requirement saved. Will make up the balance with ration as have a feeder and bin to use to do so. Rightly or wrongly still hope to make up the balance with bales made as every other year we've made the second cut in mid July we've nearly always make a share of bales in aug/Sep at a higher stocking rate than what is there now so hopefully won't need to buy in as much ration as may be needed.
Had considered setting a bit of ground for outwintering but between tb and the ground being out of action till grazing and a period after I decided against it. Will use woodchip to extend whatever straw I can get.

Will the ration be plentiful enough during the winter?

Robson99

Bo dearg wrote: »

Yea thought seriously about redstart but figured I'd be better try get silage off 12 acres and late grazing. That didn't work too well and only starting to grow now. Was thinking wheaten straw and ration but straw prices are crazy. quoted 230 a ton delivered

Its very hard to call which will be the best of the worst, sell weanlings cheaply or buy very expensive ration
Finishing cattle here that we buy as stores. Now if ration mix is costing 50 yo yos a ton more and beef prices similar to last then there wont be much out of it for Robson. Unless stores that I buy back in spring are back 50+
So most lads are going to feel some pain

Bo dearg

Robson99 wrote: »

Its very hard to call which will be the best of the worst, sell weanlings cheaply or buy very expensive ration
Finishing cattle here that we buy as stores. Now if ration mix is costing 50 yo yos a ton more and beef prices similar to last then there wont be much out of it for Robson. Unless stores that I buy back in spring are back 50+
So most lads are going to feel some pain

I'd sell some weanlings cheap if I hadn't taken such a beating on store cattle in the last month. I know it makes no sense to make the same mistake twice by keeping them it's just hard to change a system overnight

mahoney_j

K.G. wrote: »

Are ye sticking to usual dates for building covers/closin

100% definetly ,more important than ever to have grass available next spring ,start closing early October ,close no later than 15/11 or at afc of 700

Mooooo

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Will the ration be plentiful enough during the winter?

I'd say it will be there alright, price may be another matter. Baler coming next week to clean of a few stemmy paddocks, will get more use out of it in the bale than stock would giving out to me if I forced them to graze it now. Reckon I'll make another 150 bales anyway so should see me out of trouble, the last week's rain has kicked things on here

wrangler

Robson99 wrote: »

Its very hard to call which will be the best of the worst, sell weanlings cheaply or buy very expensive ration
Finishing cattle here that we buy as stores. Now if ration mix is costing 50 yo yos a ton more and beef prices similar to last then there wont be much out of it for Robson. Unless stores that I buy back in spring are back 50+
So most lads are going to feel some pain

It's very seldom that buyers in spring are weak buyers, there's a higher percentage of part time or hobby farmers that time of the year

patsy_mccabe

Guys, quick question on fertiliser. I have spread about 2.5 bags of 18.6.12 per acre for silage. Tested land and P & K low, hence the 18.6.12.
I was planning of putting out a bag of CAN /acre too, when woudl be the ideal time to do this? Would 10 days later be about right to maximise the uptake of the nitrogen.
I want to drive it on for max yield. Winter coming......

White Clover

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Guys, quick question on fertiliser. I have spread about 2.5 bags of 18.6.12 per acre for silage. Tested land and P & K low, hence the 18.6.12.
I was planning of putting out a bag of CAN /acre too, when woudl be the ideal time to do this? Would 10 days later be about right to maximise the uptake of the nitrogen.
I want to drive it on for max yield. Winter coming......

You could put it out straight away. You would get a better response from another bag of 18's as opposed to the CAN. Spreading CAN on low index ground is not a good idea imo.

patsy_mccabe

White Clover wrote: »

You could put it out straight away. You would get a better response from another bag of 18's as opposed to the CAN. Spreading CAN on low index ground is not a good idea imo.

Thanks. I think I have most of a big bag of 24-2.5-10 here. Might get a few extra small bags and use it all up. No point in keeping it for the winter.

mahoney_j

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Guys, quick question on fertiliser. I have spread about 2.5 bags of 18.6.12 per acre for silage. Tested land and P & K low, hence the 18.6.12.
I was planning of putting out a bag of CAN /acre too, when woudl be the ideal time to do this? Would 10 days later be about right to maximise the uptake of the nitrogen.
I want to drive it on for max yield. Winter coming......

2 more bags of 18s with sulphur needed ,land low in p&k

blue5000

Has anyone heard anything about a grant for sowing rape or turnips on tillage ground?

Gawddawggonnit

blue5000 wrote: »

Has anyone heard anything about a grant for sowing rape or turnips on tillage ground?

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/e2-75-million-fodder-production-incentive-announced-for-tillage-farmers/

mahoney_j

blue5000 wrote: »

Has anyone heard anything about a grant for sowing rape or turnips on tillage ground?

Not sure if this is any more than a token gesture by the govt just to be seen to do something ,tillage men around here not going for it on ground they’ve cut for winter corn as there’s barley or wheat going back in and planting after spring corn will in most cases be too late

freedominacup

mahoney_j wrote: »

Not sure if this is any more than a token gesture by the govt just to be seen to do something ,tillage men around here not going for it on ground they’ve cut for winter corn as there’s barley or wheat going back in and planting after spring corn will in most cases be too late

If it was going to be done it was needed 3 weeks ago as winter crops were being cleared. Plenty of time to get cover crop grown and cleared before winter planting. The wrong crops are being supported also.

older by the day

mahoney_j wrote: »

100% definetly ,more important than ever to have grass available next spring ,start closing early October ,close no later than 15/11 or at afc of 700

I wonder, there is a lot more grass on the ground in December than in March most spring's. You have to judge your own farm if its wet or dry, if you need to spread slurry in January. Have you not enough of calender farming yet.

alps

freedominacup wrote: »

If it was going to be done it was needed 3 weeks ago as winter crops were being cleared. Plenty of time to get cover crop grown and cleared before winter planting. The wrong crops are being supported also.

Pushed Dawgs MO at a recent one of these information meeting and was shrugged off...they were having absolutely none of it..had previously rang one of the mentioned seed companies and they were just as unimpressed.. the while emphasis is on WWorlds, Italian, and rape, but machine removing it...massive cost, frightening in fact..

In France at the moment and plenty space for seed coming home, but won't be back till start of week...anyone want some?

charolais0153

alps wrote: »

Pushed Dawgs MO at a recent one of these information meeting and was shrugged off...they were having absolutely none of it..had previously rang one of the mentioned seed companies and they were just as unimpressed.. the while emphasis is on WWorlds, Italian, and rape, but machine removing it...massive cost, frightening in fact..

In France at the moment and plenty space for seed coming home, but won't be back till start of week...anyone want some?

Are you collecting a diet feeder?;)

boggerman1

What would ground for 2nd cut silage be worth.would have to manure it if i take it but have fertilizer for it without having to necessarily buy it

Timmaay

alps wrote: »

Pushed Dawgs MO at a recent one of these information meeting and was shrugged off...they were having absolutely none of it..had previously rang one of the mentioned seed companies and they were just as unimpressed.. the while emphasis is on WWorlds, Italian, and rape, but machine removing it...massive cost, frightening in fact..

In France at the moment and plenty space for seed coming home, but won't be back till start of week...anyone want some?

I'm still juggling what to put in after the maize here, not too keen on WWs because just too hard to get the right window to cut before it goes to seed, and 2bh I'd be hoping that I would be able to graze it anyways with heifers etc. At the minute I'm thinking of even just lobbing in the cheapest grass mix I can get, using the fert spreader, throw it out with either a bag of 10 10 20 or some slurry, if the winter growth good enough try graze it in the spring when/if ground conditions allow, worst case I lob another bag of fert in jan on it and cut some leafy bales in late April just before I plough it for maize again. Altho if I go to all that effort should I just do a permanent reseed on the maize ground and grow maize elsewhere next yr ha?

alps

charolais0153 wrote: »

Are you collecting a diet feeder?;)

Haha...no

Spent Sunday on the Cotswolds....some amount of straw there boys and chopping plenty of it..amazing sight at this time of the year..

Mooooo

Timmaay wrote: »

I'm still juggling what to put in after the maize here, not too keen on WWs because just too hard to get the right window to cut before it goes to seed, and 2bh I'd be hoping that I would be able to graze it anyways with heifers etc. At the minute I'm thinking of even just lobbing in the cheapest grass mix I can get, using the fert spreader, throw it out with either a bag of 10 10 20 or some slurry, if the winter growth good enough try graze it in the spring when/if ground conditions allow, worst case I lob another bag of fert in jan on it and cut some leafy bales in late April just before I plough it for maize again. Altho if I go to all that effort should I just do a permanent reseed on the maize ground and grow maize elsewhere next yr ha?

When Will you be harvesting the maize. Could be too late to put much in after it with success unless everything goes right after it

Timmaay

Mooooo wrote: »

When Will you be harvesting the maize. Could be too late to put much in after it with success unless everything goes right after it

Not sure, usually mid Oct. We've sown grass seed in Oct here with good success previously. The more I think about it it definitely makes sense to put that field back into grass in Oct and go grow maize in another 14ac paddock at home that could badly do with being ploughed and reseeded anyways. It's my plan anyways to increase the maize area moving forward, much much better economics than any sort of 2 cut grass system here! But obviously I won't be reseeding after the maize if it's wet as Fook and ground conditions too bad.

Say my name

The best advice for the maize ground would be to definitely rotate with your grass.
The benefits of a C4 plant to increase soil bacteria diversity ( dehydrogenase activity ) and quantity would be wasted if grown on a continuous basis on land.

mengele

boggerman1 wrote: »

What would ground for 2nd cut silage be worth.would have to manure it if i take it but have fertilizer for it without having to necessarily buy it

70 with no fert and 100 with very max

leg wax

mengele wrote: »

70 with no fert and 100 with very max

paid 40 yoyos for ground along side me for a second cut, for 6 weeks growth and if weather delays cutting i will top up payment ,,hoping this might be a on the cards every year .....

wrangler

leg wax wrote: »

paid 40 yoyos for ground along side me for a second cut, for 6 weeks growth and if weather delays cutting i will top up payment ,,hoping this might be a on the cards every year .....

Do you fertilise it and what fertiliser goes on it, very poor money for the owner

leg wax

wrangler wrote: »

Do you fertilise it and what fertiliser goes on it, very poor money for the owner

i put 4 bags of 18.6.12 on it.... well its the same as getting 346 euros a acre for a whole year,

wrangler

leg wax wrote: »

i put 4 bags of 18.6.12 on it.... well its the same as getting 346 euros a acre for a whole year,

At least you put some Ps and Ks on it, very easy for silage to take €40+/ac of fertiliity out the gate

Gawddawggonnit

alps wrote: »

Pushed Dawgs MO at a recent one of these information meeting and was shrugged off...they were having absolutely none of it..had previously rang one of the mentioned seed companies and they were just as unimpressed.. the while emphasis is on WWorlds, Italian, and rape, but machine removing it...massive cost, frightening in fact..

They should get out more...

Spoke also to those companies and was almost derided. Quote...”unpronounceable stuff”.

Speaks volumes when the largest agri event is “the ploughing”.

I suppose if the kiwis were on the ball then they’d ape away after them.

Maybe a Eu wide nitrates regulation would focus the mind. Might be closer than they réalisé.

leg wax

wrangler wrote: »

At least you put some Ps and Ks on it, very easy for silage to take €40+/ac of fertiliity out the gate

its looking the best it ever it did ,never gets anything.

patsy_mccabe

leg wax wrote: »

i put 4 bags of 18.6.12 on it.... well its the same as getting 346 euros a acre for a whole year,

leg wax wrote: »

its looking the best it ever it did ,never gets anything.

How mch of the P's and K's will be left in the soil after the 6 weeks?

wrangler

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

How mch of the P's and K's will be left in the soil after the 6 weeks?

I'd imagine it'd take every bit of it to grow a proper crop, lack of moisture will probably be a problem if it doesn't rain enough

Waffletraktor

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

There are loads of other options, and durable/sustainable also.

The (almost arrogant) thinking of “let the tillage men produce feed for less than CoP, and likewise the beef (etc) men produce wraps/silage for under CoP”, as a MO has been found to be unsustainable. Time for a profound, honest and forthright discussion about what’s durable, and what’s not. Adult kinda stuff.

How many crises now in the last 5yrs? I’m losing count...

I'm totally not an Ad feedstock fan, but it would mean the end of providing cheap forages and grains for dairy farms as not even veg farms could compete once a plant gets established. As for the rest get as much grain on a boat for a premium not the one going to a miller.

Gawddawggonnit

Waffletraktor wrote: »

I'm totally not an Ad feedstock fan, but it would mean the end of providing cheap forages and grains for dairy farms as not even veg farms could compete once a plant gets established. As for the rest get as much grain on a boat for a premium not the one going to a miller.

+1.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Thought I'd bump this thread with a bit of advice from Graise consulting
https://twitter.com/Graiseconsult1/status/1030554289209585665?s=19

alps

Followed his theory on cover building last year. Was really happy with the amount of milk produced, with the recovery and growth of swards, but we did go through the last rotation quicker than our neighbours( that was probably the difficult part...looking at them) However our clean out was excellent, with farm far better set up for Spring..

Gonna target the same way this year..