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HAP for Existing Tenancy

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  • 17-07-2018 11:47am
    #1
    Colking
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭


    Hi there

    I have existing tenants that want to go on HAP. They are good tenants and I've had no issues with them.

    It is not my preference to go on HAP as ALL of the risk and ALL of the responsibility is fobbed off onto the Landlord by the Local Authority. However, being on HAP won't turn a good tenant into a bad tenant and should make life easier for them and RPZ increases easier in future if they were to be applied.

    I have no concerns with the long list of requirements for the Landlord to be accepted to HAP but I don't want to be hit with a crazy bill in 5-6 months time when an inspection is carried out. In fairness it shouldn't be crazy as the accommodation in question is a 12- 15 year old apt and the ventilation etc. requirements should be fine.

    As this is an existing tenancy there will be no deposit and the HAP payment will be paid in arrears.

    My current agreement with the Tenants is that the rent is paid in advance and I have no interest in changing this.

    I have a few questions that people here might be able to help me with who have experience of this already.

    Can I request a pre-inspection before signing down to HAP ? At least this way I would know what my potential bill would be.

    As already mentioned the HAP scheme applicable in this instance pays in arrears and I do not wish to change our current tenancy agreement. I would like to sign an agreement of understanding with the tenants before hand so that we are all on the same page and there are no miscommunications. I would explain to the tenants that they would need to cover any shortfall in HAP so that rent continues to be paid one month in advance.

    e.g. If the HAP Payment doesn't cover the current rent :

    To (Insert Names of Tenants)

    This agreement relates to your tenancy of the dwelling at (Insert Address of Rented Dwelling).

    Rent is paid one month in advance, a top up amount of (Insert Amount) is required in addition to HAP payments of (Insert Amount) to equal the full rent of (Insert Amount). This rent may be reviewed in accordance with section 19(4) of the Residential Tenancies Acts 2004 to 2016.

    This top up amount is due on (Insert Date). The HAP payment is due on the last Wednesday of the month provided (Insert Names of Tenants) have paid their weekly requirement to the Local Authority.

    Failure to pay the top up amount on the agreed date or failure to pay the weekly amount to the Local Authority which results in a failure to receive the HAP payment may result in termination of your tenancy.

    Date: [Insert date that agreement is signed]


    Signature: [To be signed by landlord/authorised agent]

    Witness:[To be signed by witness]

    Signature: [To be signed by Tenant]

    Witness:[To be signed by witness]


    Basically I want the status quo to continue in terms of payment and when it's expected etc. I don't think this is an unreasonable request considering all of the risk and all of the responsibility lies with me ?

    Can anyone see any difficulty with what I'm proposing ?

    (Before the raft of individuals who normally suggest it do so, yes I may well ask my solicitor to review the suggested agreement but it's an agreement to assist in clarity between both parties, and would not necessarily be binding whether I paid my solicitor to review it or not)


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    #2
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    The HAP agreement is between the tenant and the local council, not you as the LL. Therefore the terms of your original lease still apply, there is no need for a new lease, you just need to remind the tenant that the rent is paid in full, in advance, not arrears and must continue to be so. If they don't do that, they will be in arrears.

    I hope you know what you are letting yourself in for. HAP is a pain.


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    #3
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    davo10 wrote: »
    The HAP agreement is between the tenant and the local council, not you as the LL. Therefore the terms of your original lease still apply, there is no need for a new lease, you just need to remind the tenant that the rent is paid in full, in advance, not arrears and must continue to be so. If they don't do that, they will be in arrears.

    I hope you know what you are letting yourself in for. HAP is a pain.


    Why? As long as the rent is paid on time..


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    #4
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Graces7 wrote: »
    [/B]

    Why? As long as the rent is paid on time..

    The issues with HAP have been spelled out clearly on a number of threads:

    • Rent paid in arrears.
    • Inspections.
    • Cost of upgrades.
    • Change in tenant circumstances can mean loss of HAP and then tenant can't pay rent.
    • Tenant stops paying their part of rent so council stops HAP payment.


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    #5
    Colking
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Colking


    davo10 wrote: »
    The HAP agreement is between the tenant and the local council, not you as the LL. Therefore the terms of your original lease still apply, there is no need for a new lease, you just need to remind the tenant that the rent is paid in full, in advance, not arrears and must continue to be so. If they don't do that, they will be in arrears.

    I hope you know what you are letting yourself in for. HAP is a pain.

    Thanks Davo, I'm not looking to create a new lease or new conditions to the lease but more to underline the fact that the terms and conditions initially agreed to are still binding.

    I've seen a number of people on here who were accepted for HAP and seemed to think that it was now fine for their Landlord to be payed in arrears.

    I'm not saying my tenants would think that but I'd like us all to be crystal clear from the get go.

    As I said it's not my preference for all of the reasons you listed, but it would appear the biggest problems I've seen people experience was in walking in to the situation unaware or where both parties had a different understanding around what HAP means and doesn't mean.

    The building inspection 5 months down the line is listed in the Landlords HAP guide as a benefit to the scheme ! How is a potential ticking time bomb a benefit to you ?? This is the thing that would concern me most that someone would come out inspect the property and come up with ludicrous demands.
    From what I've seen some landlords post on here some of the inspectors put down generic stuff that doesn't even apply and then you are left trying to argue your case with the LA who seem slow to respond at the best of times.

    But at the same time you cannot say that you do not want to partake in the scheme so where does that leave you ?


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    #6
    rossmores
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭rossmores


    never complete the forms correctly it goes away the councils also are glad it does too, it should be replaced with something more equitable, the numbers of haps in dublin totals around 200 about the same no. of posts here on it.


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    #7
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    The tenancy will continue as per original agreement. What I did was the tenant paid one last bill in advance at the start of the month with the hap payment coming in at the end of the month as payment for the following month. Unfortunately you can get the council to come out before signing on and tbh it doesn’t really matter anyway as you are obliged to accept hap especially if they have lived there longer than 6months.


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    #8
    tvjunki
    Registered Users Posts: 602 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    Dont forget the inspection will happen just before you reach the 10k mark. If you do not comply with the list of demands they will stop paying you.

    Also if the tenant does not update the council when they are asked about financial situation the council when they are asked to the rent is stopped.

    Every year you will have to submit a new tax clearance cert even though they already have this. If you are delayed in getting this sent in your payment stops.


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    #9
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,990 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Fol20 wrote: »
    The tenancy will continue as per original agreement. What I did was the tenant paid one last bill in advance at the start of the month with the hap payment coming in at the end of the month as payment for the following month. Unfortunately you can get the council to come out before signing on and tbh it doesn’t really matter anyway as you are obliged to accept hap especially if they have lived there longer than 6months.

    You are obliged to accept HAP but there's no law forcing you to carry out the unnecessary work that HAP requires. If the LL can't afford, or is unwilling to do, the works the HAP is stopped and the LL then has to evict the tenant for nonpayment, get scheme!


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    #10
    tvjunki
    Registered Users Posts: 602 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    Del2005 wrote: »
    You are obliged to accept HAP but there's no law forcing you to carry out the unnecessary work that HAP requires. If the LL can't afford, or is unwilling to do, the works the HAP is stopped and the LL then has to evict the tenant for nonpayment, get scheme!

    The council then saves on paying you rent. Maybe that is the plan. It could take you a year or so to evict a tenant and if they are on hap it might not be financially worth you chasing them for the money. Low income means they may be asked to pay you back 5 a month...that is if they do.


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