The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

Hazys

Put a fork in it, the discussion of GOAT is defined by the dictionary as TB12:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/goat

There's no denying what Aaron Rodgers has done in his career, but to say Rodgers is the GOAT is a big statement considering what Tom Brady has accomplished.

Jolly Red Giant

Paully D wrote: »

https://twitter.com/pff_gordon/status/1038916857988898821?s=21

Jesus! :eek:

He looks like a good one.

Knex*

Paully D wrote: »

https://twitter.com/pff_gordon/status/1038916857988898821?s=21

Jesus! :eek:

I'm not kidding when I say that I actually enjoy watching punts...

Billy86

Oat23 wrote: »

Kap charging $175 for a new 'I'm with Kap' jersey. Bit much..
https://kaepernick7.com/collections/jersey/products/jersey

Just a little bit alright! I don't get it; if he sold them at normal jersey costs he could really, really get under the NFL's skin by having a good few show up in them. And of course the fallout in the crowd from the snowflakes offended by their own country's constitution would make that even worse from the NFL's point of view.

Knex*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_27JbYJERw

Rodgers high off his game in his post match interview? :pac:

Knex*

https://twitter.com/art_stapleton/status/1039240397606793217

6ft8" and weighs about 300lbs, thought he was a speed guy. Jesus Christ.

Hardly an unknown commodity too. The mind ****ing boggles.

Itssoeasy

Knex. wrote: »

https://twitter.com/art_stapleton/status/1039240397606793217

6ft8" and weighs about 300lbs, thought he was a speed guy. Jesus Christ.

Hardly an unknown commodity too. The mind ****ing boggles.

I hope Eli has good health insurance. Jesus that's a fairly poor answer.

boccy23

Knex. wrote: »

https://twitter.com/art_stapleton/status/1039240397606793217

6ft8" and weighs about 300lbs, thought he was a speed guy. Jesus Christ.

Hardly an unknown commodity too. The mind ****ing boggles.

Shows a high element of laziness on Flowers behalf as well. What is he doing during all the time watching tape??

raze_them_all_

Hazys wrote: »

Put a fork in it, the discussion of GOAT is defined by the dictionary as TB12:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/goat

If I had a a choice on pure talent I'd 100% take Rodgers. The best pure talent to play the game but Brady is more accomplished with the best coach of all time. Brady will go down as the goat for all he achieved, Rodgers is in it for his talent

j8wk2feszrnpao

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

If I had a a choice on pure talent I'd 100% take Rodgers. The best pure talent to play the game but Brady is more accomplished with the best coach of all time. Brady will go down as the goat for all he achieved, Rodgers is in it for his talent

I would say that Rodgers is better physically, but Brady has the talent. Having the mentality, composure, drive.... they are talents that are just as important as having a gifted arm. It's not just the SB appearances/wins, he has the stats/records to back it all up. He's 41, the reigning MVP, and looked top class in his last game again.

JaMarcus

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

If I had a a choice on pure talent I'd 100% take Rodgers. The best pure talent to play the game

Realt Dearg Sec

Two words. Smokin. Jay.

bruschi

JaMarcus wrote: »

well, week 2 seems like as good point in the season to get the discussion going.:pac:

Oat23

Looking back after they both retire I'll go with Rodgers because as said above I think he has more pure talent/ability.

However, if I had to choose either coming out of college knowing what they would both become I'd go with Brady because he's got longevity. It's highly unlikely Rodgers has another 7+ years in him. Every time he gets hit you're worried about him breaking. He has suffered 2 broken collarbones already which isn't an injury you want for a QB...look at Romo.

Adamocovic

Oat23 wrote: »

Looking back after they both retire I'll go with Rodgers because as said above I think he has more pure talent/ability.

However, if I had to choose either coming out of college knowing what they would both become I'd go with Brady because he's got longevity. It's highly unlikely Rodgers has another 7+ years in him. Every time he gets hit you're worried about him breaking. He has suffered 2 broken collarbones already which isn't an injury you want for a QB...look at Romo.

Ah Romo...broke my heart he never got to play for a Superbowl. A great QB who realistically is gaining more respect now since he's retired. Just used to be the butt of a joke.

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

You said they don't deserve any credit for yards after contact.
How are you claiming you didn't say that?

You’ve already accepted that more praise for yards after contact is deserved for an RB than the OL, which is the exact point I was attempting to make. Despite never stating that ’no credit’ should be given to the OL I have repeatedly clarified that I didn’t mean this, even if it is what you incorrectly inferred from my post.

Quit trying to have an argument about a viewpoint you wish I had. No one wants to see it so if you want to continue you’ll be having it with yourself.

Paully D

https://twitter.com/fblrave/status/1039488752832397316?s=21

Amazing! :pac:

Itssoeasy

Paully D wrote: »

https://twitter.com/fblrave/status/1039488752832397316?s=21

Amazing! :pac:

You can see why the Giants didn't pick up his fifth year option.

raze_them_all_

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I would say that Rodgers is better physically, but Brady has the talent. Having the mentality, composure, drive.... they are talents that are just as important as having a gifted arm. It's not just the SB appearances/wins, he has the stats/records to back it all up. He's 41, the reigning MVP, and looked top class in his last game again.

Genuine question. Is there any throw that Brady can make that Rodgers can't? Cos I guarantee there is that Rodgers can do that Brady cant

eagle eye

I'm a Patriots fan but have always loved watching Rodgers play.
I think if he manages to get three rings that he will definitely open a conversation about the GOAT.
What he has to prove is leadership when the chips are down, he has to show he is clutch and most of all consistent against great defenses.

raze_them_all_

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm a Patriots fan but have always loved watching Rodgers play.
I think if he manages to get three rings that he will definitely open a conversation about the GOAT.
What he has to prove is leadership when the chips are down, he has to show he is clutch and most of all consistent against great defenses.

Leadership like playing on one leg while 20 down where he could of just said nah??

j8wk2feszrnpao

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Genuine question. Is there any throw that Brady can make that Rodgers can't? Cos I guarantee there is that Rodgers can do that Brady cant

To be fair, Brady has the handicap of 5 rings on his hand while making that throw :cool:

eagle eye

I laughed hard.

raze_them_all_

munstermagic11 wrote: »

To be fair, Brady has the handicap of 5 rings on his hand while making that throw :cool:

I'll take that as a he's right so best make a joke

Billy86

Rodgers at his peak plays the game at a higher level than anyone before him, albeit only by a fraction such are the margins there. Brady however has been doing it for so long and so consistently with basically no time missed from injuries (barring 2008) that he has to be the GOAT.

I don't put nearly as much stock in SB rings or 4th quarter comebacks as some do (and the latter is frankly dumb most of the time), and he does have the greatest coach of all time working in his favour on those from the other side of the ball (compared to a guy who could shortlist for worst defensive coordinator of the decade to last more than 1-2 years), but it's extremely hard to discount being in 8 Superbowls over 17 years and winning 5 of them.

The "Malcolm Butlers interception makes Brady the GOAT!" talk did wind me up quite a bit, because the focus was largely on simply winning and not the overall performance (and Brady had a quality game), but it was really the year or two after that absolutely sealed it for me in terms of the whole GOAT thing.

Still, give me one QB in a must-win game and I'm going Rodgers every time. Totally not biased or anything.

Billy86

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Leadership like playing on one leg while 20 down where he could of just said nah??

"Relax"

"We'll run the table"

Rodgers is an incredible leader. The problem is he's had some injury issues, and more importantly a defense that just finds a way to lose no matter what. I recall seeing in around 2014 that he had more "comeback wins" that his defense managed to then lose on him with less than 1 minute on the clock than Manning and Brady combined, and by quite a distance. And at that point, between those two they probably had about 7-8 times the number of games Rodgers had under his belt. That's almost hard to even wrap your head around, it's so ridiculous.

davetherave

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Two words. Smokin. Jay.

Sorry, you misspelt Sexy Rexy



This is a guy who got to a superbowl in his first full season, and is one of only 4 Bears QB's to start all 16 games in the last 36 years.

BonnieSituation

munstermagic11 wrote: »

To be fair, Brady has the handicap of 5 rings on his hand while making that throw :cool:

Rodgers has the handicap of playing under McCarthy

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

My 2 cents on the GOAT argument.

I see a lot here about "based on pure talent." Tbh I think it's a shıtty, irrelevant argument. That's not what football, or any team sport, is about. The best player is the player who can contribute the best towards winning.
Tom Brady probably wouldn't even be in the top 3 in terms of talent in his generation. Does that matter? Not one bit. He has contributed more towards winning games that any other player has in history, and it's not even close. Not to mention he's done it in the era when every rule and league-wide strategy is designed to stop repeat winners. Has he benefited from favourable external factors (weak division, great head coach, etc)? Yes, he has, but he's so far ahead of 2nd best that's it's irrelevant.
Football is a results based business, and talent is only 1 attribute that contributes towards making a great player. Tom is so much more than his talent, and every former teammate of his will testify to that.

At the end of the day, you can say A-Rod, Marino, Elway or Young is the most talented, but who the fcuk cares? It's a losers argument. The greatest football player of all time is Tom Brady. Montana is a comfortable second, and until such time Aaron Rodgers wins 2 more Superbowls he doesn't even belong in the argument.

Hazys

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Genuine question. Is there any throw that Brady can make that Rodgers can't? Cos I guarantee there is that Rodgers can do that Brady cant

Is there any throw that Brady can make that Luck can't?

I don't understand the argument, are you saying Rodgers has more talent because if in shorts and t-shirts against no opposition he can make a wider array of throws?

If not and you are making the argument that in games Rodgers can make a wider array of throws in games that doesn't make sense either. Maybe Rodgers should make a less wider array of throws like Brady and win more games.

Talent is overrated and subjective. I think a lot of what people are calling talent as the ability to make big throwing plays. What if I defined talent as making the correct decision in the passing game consistently and constantly getting first downs? By that definition, then Brady would be the most talented.

j8wk2feszrnpao

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

I'll take that as a he's right so best make a joke

And you get people who say that it's just Pats fans that are sensitive :rolleyes:

Billy86

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Rodgers has the handicap of playing under McCarthy

I'd have previously really just put it on Capers, but after last season and the other night without Rodgers... I'm starting to lean that way more and more. Worth noting:

Packers without Rodgers: 7-14-1
Patriots without Brady: 14-6

Foxtrol

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

My 2 cents on the GOAT argument.

I see a lot here about "based on pure talent." Tbh I think it's a shıtty, irrelevant argument. That's not what football, or any team sport, is about. The best player is the player who can contribute the best towards winning.
Tom Brady probably wouldn't even be in the top 3 in terms of talent in his generation. Does that matter? Not one bit. He has contributed more towards winning games that any other player has in history, and it's not even close. Not to mention he's done it in the era when every rule and league-wide strategy is designed to stop repeat winners. Has he benefited from favourable external factors (weak division, great head coach, etc)? Yes, he has, but he's so far ahead of 2nd best that's it's irrelevant.
Football is a results based business, and talent is only 1 attribute that contributes towards making a great player. Tom is so much more than his talent, and every former teammate of his will testify to that.

At the end of the day, you can say A-Rod, Marino, Elway or Young is the most talented, but who the fcuk cares? It's a losers argument. The greatest football player of all time is Tom Brady. Montana is a comfortable second, and until such time Aaron Rodgers wins 2 more Superbowls he doesn't even belong in the argument.

Historically the Patriots minus Brady win at a much higher % than Green Bay minus Rodgers, surely that shows a player that 'contributes best towards winning'.

Hazys

Billy86 wrote: »

I'd have previously really just put it on Capers, but after last season and the other night without Rodgers... I'm starting to lean that way more and more. Worth noting:

Packers without Rodgers: 7-14-1
Patriots without Brady: 14-6

I'll throw this out as there for the people who are saying Rodgers as to me, the argument for Rodgers is similar for the argument Manning. Both teams were way worse with out them and Manning was more physically talented than Brady in terms of passing too.

Who had/has more talent/more deserving of GOAT recognition Manning or Rodgers?


BTW i was just throwing out the GOAT dictionary post for the laugh, i was being a bit naive not thinking that the conversation would kick off and with myself included lol...also its set in stone in the dictionary so we really are just discussing a mute point :pac:

thomond2006

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1039601562149171200?s=19

Sickener for Atlanta.

Foxtrol

Actually seems like Tom had his own input on this:

https://twitter.com/Ian_OConnor/status/1038995707699580933?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1038995707699580933&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fthespun.com%2Fnews%2Fthis-tom-brady-quote-about-aaron-rodgers-is-going-viral

j8wk2feszrnpao

Greg Olsen re-fractured his right foot again. Likely IR candidate. Big loss for Carolina.

Billy86

Hazys wrote: »

I'll throw this out as there for the people who are saying Rodgers as to me, the argument for Rodgers is similar for the argument Manning. Both teams were way worse with out them and Manning was more physically talented than Brady in terms of passing too.

Who had/has more talent/more deserving of GOAT recognition Manning or Rodgers?

I don't think Manning was more physically better at passing than Brady, his biggest strength was between the years with the pre-snap stuff for the most part. I would put Rodgers above Manning personally, though I have a preference for peak. In terms of career, Manning might still be above him though it's a tough call.

Rodgers is every bit as consistent as those two (barring injuries), but a is better passer and a really good scrambler while the other two getting some yards on the ground tends to get a chuckle from commentators. I genuinely think he would have at least 3 rings if not for Dom Capers, but that's a different matter again I guess.

As I said, for me Brady is the GOAT but Rodgers has played on a level (only slightly!) higher than anyone else, which I think is a fair assessment.

EDIT:

BTW i was just throwing out the GOAT dictionary post for the laugh, i was being a bit naive not thinking that the conversation would kick off and with myself included lol...also its set in stone in the dictionary so we really are just discussing a mute point

You knew what you were doing! You opened Pandora's Box and it's only week feckin' 1, you horrible b@stard you!

j8wk2feszrnpao

Foxtrol wrote: »

Actually seems like Tom had his own input on this:

https://twitter.com/Ian_OConnor/status/1038995707699580933?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1038995707699580933&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fthespun.com%2Fnews%2Fthis-tom-brady-quote-about-aaron-rodgers-is-going-viral

That's such a bizarre thing for Brady to say; he's never humble when speaking about another player :eek:

eagle eye

I'd agree with you but there is an asterisk and that says regular season only.

He has had a couple of great playoff games but he has never been close to his regular season self in the playoffs.

Foxtrol

munstermagic11 wrote: »

That's such a bizarre thing for Brady to say; he's never humble when speaking about another player :eek:

It is possible to be humble and telling the truth at the same time

j8wk2feszrnpao

Foxtrol wrote: »

It is possible to be humble and telling the truth at the same time

It is. Just as it is possible to be humble and not tell the truth

TOss Sweep

I have said it before and I will say it again the GOAT argument is stupid.

Brady, Montana right now are up there on top just the two of them but only because they are backed with wins.

As QBs go you wont find better QBs outside Brady, Rodgers who are still play and Montana and Manning who are not. For me all 4 of them are in a league of their own.

You put all 4 of them with that Bill Walsh or Bill Belichick team and they all produce the same amount of Soup Bowl wins for you. Montana and Brady have been lucky to have great coaches behind them also. And the two Bills were lucky to have 2 of the greatest QBs of all time. But all 4 of those guys if given the same level playing field will give you close to the same results.

You are only as good as the team around you and some guys will stand on top of the pile and scrap wins and prove themselves like Rodgers the other night but there is only so much scraping you can do.

Billy86

eagle eye wrote: »

I'd agree with you but there is an asterisk and that says regular season only.

He has had a couple of great playoff games but he has never been close to his regular season self in the playoffs.

If we're talking about Manning, that is true. If we're talking about Rodgers, not so much. He has the highest rating of any QB ever in the postseason if I recall - the problem is that when he is anything short of top quality, we lose and that's that. Literally the one exception to that that I can think of was against the Bears in the 2010 conference game, and most people forget that game because we won. That is the only playoff game the Packers have won with Rodgers where his rating was below 90 (where they are 1-4) in his entire career - by comparison the Pats are 10-7 with Brady below that same number.

Four of Rodgers seven playoff losses have also come when the opposition scored 37+ points, and in 17 playoff games his defense has given up that number 4 times (29% of the time). Brady's defenses in 38 games have only given up that much 2 times (5% of games), and they lost both of them. When your defense is six times more likely to get blown out dramatically, it's going to hurt your chances of picking up rings.

The other three losses included the double hail mary comeback at the buzzer vs Arizona that our defense took all of two plays to blow after 2 plays of overtime, and the infamous Seattle one which is one of the biggest defensive/ST collapses in the history of the league. And then the loss against SF where Rodgers himself had a pretty decent game.

The Patriots defense during last year's Superbowl was a good example of what Rodgers has tended to have on the other side of the ball, and Capers' shortcomings were even more apparent there as a mobile QB who is also decent at passing, or a very smart QB have been able to abuse his defenses since around 2011. He could beat up on the nobody's all day, but a QB who knew what they were doing would consistently shred him. I would need to find a link, but there is a lengthy enough list of playoff records broken by Dom Capers' defenses down the years, and they're not the good kind of records.

None of that is to take away from Brady whatsoever, but it is to point out that absolutely nobody was winning Superbowls with what Rodgers -whose performances in the playoffs have been very good by any measure- has had on the other side of the ball for a good seven years now, and that is ultimately what has cost GB all these years.

JaMarcus

Any games in danger of being cancelled this week? A few college games have been cancelled outright as campuses shut down in preparation for the hurricane.

Oat23

davetherave wrote: »

Sorry, you misspelt Sexy Rexy



This is a guy who got to a superbowl in his first full season, and is one of only 4 Bears QB's to start all 16 games in the last 36 years.

The undisputed S.O.A.T.

Oat23

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

My 2 cents on the GOAT argument.

I see a lot here about "based on pure talent." Tbh I think it's a shıtty, irrelevant argument. That's not what football, or any team sport, is about. The best player is the player who can contribute the best towards winning.
Tom Brady probably wouldn't even be in the top 3 in terms of talent in his generation. Does that matter? Not one bit. He has contributed more towards winning games that any other player has in history, and it's not even close. Not to mention he's done it in the era when every rule and league-wide strategy is designed to stop repeat winners. Has he benefited from favourable external factors (weak division, great head coach, etc)? Yes, he has, but he's so far ahead of 2nd best that's it's irrelevant.
Football is a results based business, and talent is only 1 attribute that contributes towards making a great player. Tom is so much more than his talent, and every former teammate of his will testify to that.

At the end of the day, you can say A-Rod, Marino, Elway or Young is the most talented, but who the fcuk cares? It's a losers argument. The greatest football player of all time is Tom Brady. Montana is a comfortable second, and until such time Aaron Rodgers wins 2 more Superbowls he doesn't even belong in the argument.

I bet you'd be eyeing Tom as Gisele throws herself at ya.

TOss Sweep

JaMarcus wrote: »

Any games in danger of being cancelled this week? A few college games have been cancelled outright as campuses shut down in preparation for the hurricane.

If any the Falcons or Titans depending on if the storm fizzes out or take a turn. Right now its going to fizzle out over the eastern side of TN but they said it could fizzle out of Atlanta. But NC and northern tip of SC will take the brunt of it.

Itssoeasy

On the hurricane the panthers would have been the ones most effected and they are away next weekend. It's forecast to stall once it hits land so I can see why college teams in the area will be dealing with substantial volumes of rain.

Onecoolcookie

Deion Jones to IR for the Falcons with Keanu Neal already out for the season that's a disaster for them