The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

adrian522

And Ward can't even get into the final round of voting so very difficult to see a path for Edelman.

eagle eye

el Fenomeno wrote:

I love Edelman, but I think Hines Ward has a far, far more impressive résumé with regards to getting into the HoF.

I never said who was better than who if them. I'm saying they were both great team players and not individual superstars. They both could have had way better individual careers if they weren't so team orientated.
As I said I'd like to see both get in at some stage.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

I never said who was better than who if them. I'm saying they were both great team players and not individual superstars. They both could have had way better individual careers if they weren't so team orientated.
As I said I'd like to see both get in at some stage.

Id argue edelman.woukdnt be anywhere close to as celebrated if he didn't land in the perfect.spot. I thought welker was better in the same spot being honest.

From purely a stats perspective edleman was an average reciever at best.

I appreciate you giving the other side of the argument all the same I don't think I'll ever agree but it's interesting to hear

Christy42

My main thing is I don't think there was a point anyone was arguing Julian was one of the best in the nfl which counts him out for me. Really good player on the right team.

Aaron Donald offered an apology. Victim states there was a case of mistaken identity. Not sure how many people look like Donald but anyway.

Hococop

Think a video was posted of your man getting beat up by a group of people and it's donald dragging people off him

eagle eye

Christy42 wrote:

My main thing is I don't think there was a point anyone was arguing Julian was one of the best in the nfl which counts him out for me. Really good player on the right team.

His yardage isn't great by any stretch but his clutch plays, some of which lead to a Superbowl MVP, were what made him stand out. On top of that he was an excellent punt returner for many years.
He's the guy you want with seconds left on the clock in the fourth quarter.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

His yardage isn't great by any stretch but his clutch plays, some of which lead to a Superbowl MVP, were what made him stand out. On top of that he was an excellent punt returner for many years.
He's the guy you want with seconds left on the clock in the fourth quarter.

Ya and I agree they bump him to an extent but his numbers are average nfl reciever numbers at best they are to low. I think he's had 2 1k years ever. Marshal falks recieving numbers are better than his as a running back. Honestly darren sproles has a better hall of fame shout and noone will be calling for that

rebelyell99

Edelman was absolutely clutch in the playoffs but HOF worthy? .I mean Wes Welker isnt in the HOF and I would say he had a better career overall then Edelman imo .

Christy42

eagle eye wrote: »

His yardage isn't great by any stretch but his clutch plays, some of which lead to a Superbowl MVP, were what made him stand out. On top of that he was an excellent punt returner for many years.
He's the guy you want with seconds left on the clock in the fourth quarter.

I will still take Julio or Fitzgerald or peak Antonio at the end of a game every single time. The difference is Tom Brady. I will take Adams or Allen over him as well any time during a game.

He was a really good player and deserved to be a wr1 for a team in the league however I am not sticking in everyone who hung around that dynasty for long enough just because of their rings. The likes of Brady and Gronk would have dominated in nearly any team. I can't say the same for Edelman.

The_Honeybadger

Hococop wrote: »

Think a video was posted of your man getting beat up by a group of people and it's donald dragging people off him

Saw on Twitter the guy that was attacked has acknowledged that AD was not the culprit and has apologised for wrongly accusing him. The venue has it all on CCTV according to AD’s lawyer so I’d say he knew the chance of a payoff was gone and he is now trying to save face.

eagle eye

Christy42 wrote:

I will still take Julio or Fitzgerald or peak Antonio at the end of a game every single time. The difference is Tom Brady. I will take Adams or Allen over him as well any time during a game.

Fitzgerald and Brown are two of the greatest ever and I'd have them up there in clutch moments with Edelman.
Jones didn't perform in his only Superbowl. Adams and Allen haven't been to a Superbowl but Adams has played below his normal standard in his NFCCG appearances. Keenan hasn't done well in his playoff performances either.
Only comparisons there in clutch moments are Fitzgerald and Brown but I'd still take Edelman first in those moments. He's just done it in those moments more often.

the baby bull elephant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSirjCbbP1c

Shedite27

Edelman will come down to the same thing as Eli, nobody thinks his play deserves HOF, but NFL loves nostalgia, and a Superbowl MVP and one of the best ever catches/highlights in a Superbowl will get him a lot of kudos.

Career yardage, TD's and receptions sometimes get overshadowed.

Eli has decent numbers at least there's a reason santonio holmes is not in the hof

eagle eye

Santonio had a short enough career, how many full seasons did he play? Five maybe six?
Eli has 360 tds and 240 ints which isn't a good look. He'll deffo be in the hall though, could even be first ballot.

Foxtrol

Lily Thoughtless Swimmer wrote: »

Eli has decent numbers at least there's a reason santonio holmes is not in the hof

Yeah, there is really no comparison between Eli's numbers and Edelman. A fine career for Edelman given his limitations but he never came close to the player Eli was.

Pointing to rings as main support for a WR shows just shows how incredibly weak the claim is.

There is unsurprising talking out of both sides of certain mouths going on here. I don't remember Edelman being noted as a HOF level talent during discussions around the quality of the Patriots teams. Must remember this when it inevitably comes up in the future.

Itssoeasy

eagle eye wrote: »

Santonio had a short enough career, how many full seasons did he play? Five maybe six?
Eli has 360 tds and 240 ints which isn't a good look. He'll deffo be in the hall though, could even be first ballot.

Wasn’t the short career the knock on Terrell Davis also ? I don’t think length of time in the league should be given that much weight honestly. Quality over quantity as they say.

I don’t think that the TD to int ratio will hurt Eli because one of the all time greats in Brett farve had nearly 400 ints in his career. While obviously stats are important in the nfl, there are times when I think analysts get too bogged down in them.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Santonio had a short enough career, how many full seasons did he play? Five maybe six?
Eli has 360 tds and 240 ints which isn't a good look. He'll deffo be in the hall though, could even be first ballot.

Santonio had one good year and a few decent years his but his career stats are essentially the same as edleman

eagle eye

Lily Thoughtless Swimmer wrote:

Santonio had one good year and a few decent years his but his career stats are essentially the same as edleman

Yeah but a very short career too. That always goes against the player.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah but a very short career too. That always goes against the player.

But as a non hall of famer outperformed edleman in far fewer years while himself being average to below average I'm no sure I understand your argument

eagle eye

Lily Thoughtless Swimmer wrote:

But as a non hall of famer outperformed edleman in far fewer years while himself being average to below average I'm no sure I understand your argument

What argument? All I said was I wouldn't rule out Edelman getting in. He had a long career, has 3 rings and a Superbowl MVP, he was a clutch receiver and an excellent punt returner too. He was a great blocker, threw td passes too, a true team player. He has the second most receptions and receiving yards in the postseason behind only the GOAT receiver Jerry Rice in those categories. He is the only player to have 340 or more yards in more than one postseason.
The only knock is his regular season receiving yards totals.

Itssoeasy

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah but a very short career too. That always goes against the player.

Why does it go against the player ? It doesn’t always because Gale sawyers had a short career and retired in 1972(well 1971) and was elected to the HOF in 1977 which is five years. Eagle eye and nerd(the two people talking) do either of you subscribe to the whole “ you can’t write the history of football without person X or Y” logic for the hall of fame ?

eagle eye

Itssoeasy wrote:

Why does it go against the player ? It doesn’t always because Gale sawyers had a short career and retired in 1972(well 1971) and was elected to the HOF in 1977 which is five years. Eagle eye and nerd(the two people talking) do either of you subscribe to the whole “ you can’t write the history of football without person X or Y†logic for the hall of fame ?

I'm not saying is should go against him, I'm saying it does. It took 11 years for Terrell Davis to get in and it shouldn't. He was ridiculously good.

As far as every a
player is concerned I look at their career and decide if I think they should get in or not.

I believe that Edelman and Heinz Ward should get in. Edelman's postseason numbers and his clutchness are hugely important in that. The same goes for Ward.

Itssoeasy

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm not saying is should go against him, I'm saying it does. It took 11 years for Terrell Davis to get in and it shouldn't. He was ridiculously good.

As far as every a
player is concerned I look at their career and decide if I think they should get in or not.

I believe that Edelman and Heinz Ward should get in. Edelman's postseason numbers and his clutchness are hugely important in that. The same goes for Ward.

The issue of playing getting in too soon or too late or not at all is one of the issues I have with the pro football hall of fame(name is a bit misleading) is the way it’s voting process is open to abuse. I mean yes art moddel did the city of Cleveland dirty, but because of the Cleveland member of the press on the committee he’ll never get in.

AbusesToilets

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm not saying is should go against him, I'm saying it does. It took 11 years for Terrell Davis to get in and it shouldn't. He was ridiculously good.

As far as every a
player is concerned I look at their career and decide if I think they should get in or not.

I believe that Edelman and Heinz Ward should get in. Edelman's postseason numbers and his clutchness are hugely important in that. The same goes for Ward.

Edelman doesn't have the stats, relative to other players, but he definitely fits the criteria of NFL myth. He's had so many big moments in the playoffs. They should almost have a separate HOF just for the playoffs, might alleviate some of these issues, and allow recognition of deserving players

eagle eye

AbusesToilets wrote:

Edelman doesn't have the stats, relative to other players, but he definitely fits the criteria of NFL myth. He's had so many big moments in the playoffs. They should almost have a separate HOF just for the playoffs, might alleviate some of these issues, and allow recognition of deserving players

He doesn't have the regular season stats you mean, he certainly has the postseason stats.
Which is more important? Doing it in important knockout games or regular season games.
I think if you are behind only Jerry Rice in yards and receptions in the postseason then you certainly have to be seriously considered for the Hall.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

He doesn't have the regular season stats you mean, he certainly has the postseason stats.
Which is more important? Doing it in important knockout games or regular season games.
I think if you are behind only Jerry Rice in yards and receptions in the postseason then you certainly have to be seriously considered for the Hall.

He just played a lot of postseason games because he played with the brady bb pats

Itssoeasy

eagle eye wrote: »

He doesn't have the regular season stats you mean, he certainly has the postseason stats.
Which is more important? Doing it in important knockout games or regular season games.
I think if you are behind only Jerry Rice in yards and receptions in the postseason then you certainly have to be seriously considered for the Hall.

Except Jerry rice isn’t in the HOF for just his postseason play though now is he ? No, he’s in there for his entire body of work over his career. We can all find ways to using certain stats to make a point. We won’t know how much his career means until 2026 and we see where he gets to in the process of that years class.

At the very least I'm glad to have learned that this is not just talking heads nonsense and people do think he has a shot

Itssoeasy

Lily Thoughtless Swimmer wrote: »

At the very least I'm glad to have learned that this is not just talking heads nonsense and people do think he has a shot

Any player of note has a shot nerd but it’s a bit early to be getting this deep into whether he will get in or not when he’s just announced it and as far as I know hasn’t made it official. Let’s see what happens.

Shedite27

eagle eye wrote: »

He doesn't have the regular season stats you mean, he certainly has the postseason stats.
Which is more important? Doing it in important knockout games or regular season games.
I think if you are behind only Jerry Rice in yards and receptions in the postseason then you certainly have to be seriously considered for the Hall.

Yeah you have to look past the stats sometimes don't ya. It's all well and good knocking up massive yards, but there has to be more weighting to doing it in the playoffs.

eagle eye

Itssoeasy wrote:

Except Jerry rice isn’t in the HOF for just his postseason play though now is he ? No, he’s in there for his entire body of work over his career. We can all find ways to using certain stats to make a point. We won’t know how much his career means until 2026 and we see where he gets to in the process of that years class.

Jerry Rice is the GOAT receiver, regular season or postseason.
I'm saying if you are second to him in either than you have to be seriously considered for the Hall.

Blut2

Half joking, but still. Edelman was undoubtedly a very good receiver, but with such a talented cast around him it does take away from it. I don't think he (or Jordy, unfortunately) are HOF quality.

eagle eye

Blut2 wrote:

Half joking, but still. Edelman was undoubtedly a very good receiver, but with such a talented cast around him it does take away from it. I don't think he (or Jordy, unfortunately) are HOF quality.

Can you compare their playoff stats?

raze_them_all_

eagle eye wrote: »

Can you compare their playoff stats?

Playoff stats mean even less for me tbh edelman bar last year I don't think missed a post season so had more opportunities than a lot of players.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Can you compare their playoff stats?

If you add in playoff stats he's still behind nelson is that what your asking?

Per playoff game if you exclude the regular season he may or may not be slightly ahead I'd wager per game they may be the same

Foxtrol

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Playoff stats mean even less for me tbh edelman bar last year I don't think missed a post season so had more opportunities than a lot of players.

Yeah, carving out 'playoff stats' is another very weird US sport thing to do - especially cumulative stats for a specific player that plays such a small part in the overall team success.

I can maybe reach to understand it for other US sports when the team is small and/or they play in an extremely long season (which can really mess with data) but for football, when teams are so large and the regular season has only been 16 games long, it makes absolutely no sense.

Being a PED cheat isn't going to help Edelman's case either. I know many presume that most of the league is doing similar but it can put off voters even if it wasn't such a huge reach in the first place.

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

Yeah, carving out 'playoff stats' is another very weird US sport thing to do - especially cumulative stats for a specific player that plays such a small part in the overall team success.

I can maybe reach to understand it for other US sports when the team is small and/or they play in an extremely long season (which can really mess with data) but for football, when teams are so large and the regular season has only been 16 games long, it makes absolutely no sense.

Being a PED cheat isn't going to help Edelman's case either. I know many presume that most of the league is doing similar but it can put off voters even if it wasn't such a huge reach in the first place.

Not to mention if he was megatron for example he probably moves at some point and has less games. His being an average reciever that happened to fit well into the pats offence got him more playoff appearances.

heyjude

Edelman was never considered an elite WR during his career as evidenced by his never being named all pro or making a pro bowl, yet somehow his 3 Superbowl rings seem to have led to the idea that he deserved Hall of Fame consideration. Yet there are other more deserving candidates to be considered before Edelman.

Compare the career stats for Cliff Branch(who played in a less pass friendly era)

Cliff Branch 501 rec - 8,685 yds - 67 TDs. 20 career playoffs appearances - 3 Superbowl wins and held playoff rec and TD records until surpassed by Jerry Rice. 4 time Pro bowler, 3 time first team All-Pro, led NFL in receiving yards once and in TDs twice

Julian Edelman 620 rec - 6,822 yds - 40 TDs(36 receiving and 4 returns). 19 career playoffs appearances . 3 Superbowl wins. Never made Pro Bowl or All Pro. Never led league in receiving yards or TDs

Yet despite his career stats comparing favourably with other pro bowl receivers of his era, Branch has never even been a Hall of Fame finalist(he has a semi finalist in 2004 and 2010), so if his 3 Superbowl rings, 4 Pro bowls, 3 all pro and superior yardage and TD totals weren't enough to even be a Hall of Fame finalist, then Edelman should be a long way down the list for consideration.

eagle eye

Lily Thoughtless Swimmer wrote:

Per playoff game if you exclude the regular season he may or may not be slightly ahead I'd wager per game they may be the same

Nelson played 13 times in the playoffs catching 54 balls for 688 yards.
Edelman played 19 games with 118 catches for 1442 yards.

eagle eye

Cliff Branch should be in the hall, it's a disgrace that he isn't.

eagle eye

And Branch, Gronk, Andre Reed and Reggie Wayne all played more playoff games than Edelman and have less receiving yards

Xavi6

Alex Smith is retiring. It’s remarkable that he came back from one of the worst injuries I’ve seen in sports and was a functional QB with Washington. I liked him a lot at the Chiefs too. He was a solid but unspectacular pair of hands and was a good influence on Mahomes by all accounts.

16 years is a very good innings. Video announcement below.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CN2j9LohMi4/?igshid=8njua9vg1ueq

Foxtrol

Xavi6 wrote: »

Alex Smith is retiring. It’s remarkable that he came back from one of the worst injuries I’ve seen in sports and was a functional QB with Washington. I liked him a lot at the Chiefs too. He was a solid but unspectacular pair of hands and was a good influence on Mahomes by all accounts.

16 years is a very good innings. Video announcement below.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CN2j9LohMi4/?igshid=8njua9vg1ueq

He dealt with a lot of crap during his time at the 49ers as well, always a great pro. Glad he has retired though, last season was very uncomfortable to watch.

Foxtrol

Watson's lawyers releasing their response to the claims against him.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1384176998394712064?s=20

raze_them_all_

Foxtrol wrote: »

Watson's lawyers releasing their response to the claims against him.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1384176998394712064?s=20

If they have actual texts and **** like they claim this will only end in a win for watson

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

And Branch, Gronk, Andre Reed and Reggie Wayne all played more playoff games than Edelman and have less receiving yards

Sounds like a prime candidate for the playoffs hall if fame

Itssoeasy

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

If they have actual texts and **** like they claim this will only end in a win for watson

Which explains why he wants this to go to trial.

raze_them_all_

eagle eye wrote: »

Nelson played 13 times in the playoffs catching 54 balls for 688 yards.
Edelman played 19 games with 118 catches for 1442 yards.

So what you are saying is with only 8 games extra olayed Nelson grades out better over all??

I'm a packers fan and I don't think Nelson deserves in

eagle eye

Lily Thoughtless Swimmer wrote:

Sounds like a prime candidate for the playoffs hall if fame

There's only one hall of fame. If you split it into regular season and playoffs then nobody would care about the regular season one.