The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007359#Comment_118007359

People using crass and demeaning language about minorities and those who cannot defend themselves in a "jocular manner" in a professional environment is entirely part of the problem.

I mean if it came out that the ceo of my company was calling a colleague of mine a drunken potato munching stupid Irish man I'd not be happy private email or not I'm not sure that him being "jocular" or not saying it publicly would ease my mind

Tom1991

Why die on the hill of defending Gruden,

He’s a dinosaur brought back from tv duty and has been found out in multiple emails it seems being at best crass and at worse a bigot.

So long John and good riddance

el Fenomeno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007531#Comment_118007531

On the people defending him - you're exactly right. Case in point is Jermaine Eluemunor. He tweeted last night that Gruden is far from racist and was one of the best coaches he's been around.

A few minutes later, the NYT reported on the next batch of emails. Eluemunor couldn't delete his tweet quick enough, it's now gone.

You can just imagine the "Oh sh1t, no defending that..." moment as he scrambles to delete it.

How where the emails leaked do we know?

Shedite27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007332#Comment_118007332

eagle, you're either incredibly naiive as to how the world works, or just looking for a chat.

There's no way anybody in the modern world can say the things Gruden says as the face of a sports team.

el Fenomeno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007692#Comment_118007692

The NFL were investigating the Washington / Dan Snyder fiasco and looking at Washington emails, and I believe some of the Gruden mails were exchanged with Bruce Allen. Allen also sent Gruden pictures of the WFT cheerleaders after pressuring them to do a topless photoshoot. The whole thing oozes class and sophistication obviously.

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007341#Comment_118007341

Does that make Gruden a coward in your view?

No one has gone after him with sticks and stones. No one sacked him. People found out who he was and he decided to go. As for acting like this in real life a good example would be the emails he sent which are indeed real life.

In the real world actions have consequences and a coach is meant to be a people manager as well which he will struggle to do now he has been shown up.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007354#Comment_118007354

Defends Gruden by railing about "a world full of pussies", a word that has its roots in misogyny.

Comedy gold, eagle eye, or a good wind up. Surely the whole "oh it's so manly and admirable to throw around homophobic and racist slurs" went out in the 90s?

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007332#Comment_118007332

• Called DeMaurice Smith (who is black) "Monkey faced"
• Called Roger Goodell a "Fagg0t" and a “clueless anti football pussy"
• Called Joe Biden "A nervous pussy"
• Sent topless photos of Washington Redskins cheerleaders (who were in the middle of a lawsuit for sexual harassment against the Washington franchise) to male colleagues and said they were "juicy ¢ unts"
• Said teams shouldn't be "pressured into drafting queers."

Yeah hes definitely a really nice guy who should be kept in a position of power over people. Hes "just a little crass". Nothing to see here at all. :rolleyes:

If anyone used that sort of language in work emails in any company I know of they'd be fired instantly. This isn't some sort of overly-PC overreaction, its pretty reasonable all things considered.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007896#Comment_118007896

Here we go, attributing comments to me which I never said or came close to saying.

How does your brain work?

The fact that I'm defending a man because I believe he isn't homphobic, isn't racist and isn't a misogynist doesn't mean I believe that it's ok to say these things. I just feel that we have to look at the whole picture and for me the biggest part of that is how he has acted in his life when dealing with people. If we get anybody coming out saying he acted in a manner that he shouldn't then I'll review my position but I'm pretty confident that's not going to happen because he's always been respecful to others. Far too many have come out and defended him.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007833#Comment_118007833

Someone in the nfl leaking these should be fired also tbh gruden was wrong but private emails being released is grim . Also is Bruce Allen getting condemned at all iv seen little about him

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118008724#Comment_118008724

The bloody emails are him "acting in a manner he shouldn't"

el Fenomeno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118008724#Comment_118008724

So do you think it's okay to exchange homophobic, racial and misogynistic slurs by text/email/in person to your friends provided (i) they are not the subject of the slurs, and (ii) the conversation is private and you haven't called anyone those names in person?

Do you think keeping these things private or "in-house" only means that you're not racist, homophobe or misogynist?

And finally, is there a definition of racist, homophobic or misogynistic that I'm not aware of that limits these to public behaviour only?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118008724#Comment_118008724

Huh? You did say it.

You actually used the "world of pussies" line twice. You're using a line rooted in misogyny to defend a man accused, inter alia, of misogyny. While denying you're saying what you're saying!

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118008727#Comment_118008727

Allen hasn't worked for a few years, he is a nobody and will never get a job in the NFL again now (many WFT fans would say he should never get a job in the NFL even before this).

Whoever leaked should be protected like any whistleblower. It is far from grim - they did everyone a service by leaking them. The more light that can be shone on this type of activity the better. I am always surprised by people who come out to defend grown men caught up in these situations that they know the 'real' person, like some players and broadcasters who came out for Gruden have learned. How could they possibly know which is the 'real' person, the one they interacted with or the one behind closed doors when they are around other white powerful men and their guard is down? I am much more likely to believe the latter is their 'real' personality of how they see the world than one off relationships in controlled environments.

I saw a good comment that it is no surprise now that the NFL ran to settle with Kaepernick - god knows what his team would have found during discovery that could have taken down a good chunk of the league

No gruden was wrong here and should absolutely be held accountable but leaking of private documents not directly related to whats being investigated is wrong

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009391#Comment_118009391

By that logic practically every whistleblower in history is 'wrong' in their actions - whistleblowing generally involves leaking private documents or information that were gathered for reasons outside of releasing them to the media.

If Gruden had been honest when the story leaked and owned up that he had sent many emails over the years in the past disparaging many minority groups, apologising, and stepping down I suspect the latest batch of emails wouldn't have come out.

Up until the release of additional emails yesterday Gruden was going to ride out the situation through lying to the media and public. When someone in power is lying it isn't 'wrong' to show evidence of their wrongdoing.

Realt Dearg Sec

Come on lads it's not fair to hang the man for comments he made ten years ago when he was an immature young man of just 48 years old.

(I stole that line)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009514#Comment_118009514

I mean he was being a **** a decade ago it ain't exactly a sign of systematic issues all Snowden or macabre so I'm not sure they can be viewed in the same light. Most people likely have some stupid **** they said in private a decade plus ago I'm not sure that it being pulled forward publicly years later is always something to be celebrated. Seems like an excellent way to dox someone

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009888#Comment_118009888

Who exactly is 'celebrating' this? People are holding the middle aged man accountable for his repeated actions.

The emails went right up to 3 years ago and it wasn't a one off 'stupid' comment, he did it again and again and each comment managing to be more vile than the last. This is likely a drop in the ocean of what Gruden has written and said over the years - these were only his emails to one organization and I also don't know anyone who isn't more careful about what they write than what they say.

It also isn't like Gruden was a retired coach at the time minding his own business and there wouldn't have been repercussions if these came out then - he was the highest paid person at ESPN and would likely have been fired yet he did it again and again.

It is incredible to me for someone to take the track that it was 'wrong' for evidence to be released that proved Gruden lied, that the 'right' thing to do was to bury the evidence and let the liar with power walk away without being held accountable.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118008969#Comment_118008969

I would never use slurs anywhere personally, I never have them sort of thoughts.

However I believe people are allowed to have privacy and say things which aren't politically correct and that includes in private emails.

My opinions of Gruden are based on following his career over the last 20 or so years and from listening to the many who came out and defended him after this story broke.

I don't like racists, homophobes or misogynists. I meet them regularly and tell them exactly what they are.

However somebody who has worked as a head coach for many years and never had an accusation levelled against him is highly unlikely to be any of those things.

There are people out there who say stupid things that are considered by many as racist, homophobic or misogynistic but they don't actually believe any of it. To me those are stupid people and not bigots. They are people with personality flaws who stupidly make comments to make people think they are different or tough or something but once you stand up to them they back off very quickly.

Thing was s there's many these days that just want to box everything off and get up on their high horse saying look at me I'm not any of those things. They have personality flaws just like the ones I mention above.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009116#Comment_118009116

The word pussy to me is a term for a coward and comes from cats who run away quickly.

Podge_irl

It is not some once-off thing he said a decade ago. It is a consistent pattern of behaviour the follows through up until his time as Raiders coach.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118010047#Comment_118010047

Can I have access to all your emails so I can check and see if you ever said anything wrong?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118010047#Comment_118010047

Yup as I said gruden should be held accountable. You said whistleblowers like this should be celebrated

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118010948#Comment_118010948

I love people that think everyone is as terrible and says racist things. No most people in recent decades manage to avoid going with racist tropes. They especially don't have a series of them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118010301#Comment_118010301

But that's simply laughable nonsense that you've made up.

The word pussy is pejorative slang that uses women or effeminate men as a yardstick to express contempt. You know that, which is why you deliberately and repeatedly used that very term to defend a man accused of misogyny.

Xavi6

He’s been removed from the Buccaneers’ Ring of Honour.

Xavi6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007362#Comment_118007362

And here they come, as expected. Michael Clayton with his take.

https://twitter.com/theleadcnn/status/1448040966502293506?s=21

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118011446#Comment_118011446

Pussy = scaredy cat.

Grow up and get your mind out if the gutter.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012121#Comment_118012121

Google it. You're just wrong. And you know you are and thought it was clever dropping it into the discussion. Donald Trump would be more subtle.

"Get your mind out of the gutter" is amusing from a poster being deliberately obtuse while bitterly defending misogyny, homophobia and racism.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012321#Comment_118012321

I'm not wrong, I don't need to Google anything. I've heard these terms used since the early 1970's.

If my memory serves from when I was a child, the word pussy has a definition in the dictionary of being a cowardly man or boy. A cowardly boy is also a description of scaredy cat.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013049#Comment_118013049

The etymology that links the word "pussy" and it's pejorative use by invoking female genitalia to refer to weak or scared goes back centuries. It's not trumped by you saying your misunderstanding goes back to the 70s or your refusal to check it out. Plus, your claim that you were in effect repeating "scaredy cat, scaredy cat" in a thread about misogynist language is ridiculous.

Weepsie

Pussy is derived from pusillanimous, to be weak/cowardly.

Pussy is a slang from the 1800s to describe women's genitialia. Somewhere in the 20th it all got a bit blurred.

Neither of you are entirely correct, but it's got no connection to "scaredy cat" whatsoeve and the derogatory term as used above morphed into the slang and derivative of pusillanimous

Eagle eyes attempt at defending gruden though is nothing short of laughable.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013362#Comment_118013362

You are correct, I did see references to pusillanimous in some analyses, but as you rightly say the cat stuff is complete nonsense. And in a debate about misogynistic language the claim that it was repeatedly dropped in to invoke cats being scared is laughably transparent. It's the language of Trump, McGregor...and Gruden.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118010960#Comment_118010960

Can you please point to where I said they should be 'celebrated'? I went back through my posts and I can see where I said they should be protected and that they did everyone a service - neither are the same as celebrating.

I don't see how you can't see the inconsistency of your point of view - you say you want Gruden to be held accountable but you think the people who provided the evidence to hold him accountable are wrong. There was no way Gruden would have been held accountable if the 'wrong' thing hadn't been done.

Fair enough I wronged you with regards celebrated.

It's simple enough really two people can be wrong. Someone leaking private documents is wrong and also grhden was wrong

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118011975#Comment_118011975

Though this is the right thing to do it is such a hypocritical move by them while at the same time having other people on the ring of honour with similar/worse complaints against him and while also having at least one guy actively playing on their team with also worse complaints.

NFL is built on double standards so this is in no way surprising.

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014784#Comment_118014784

Agreed on the double standards. There is a lot more in that WFT investigation than Gruden being an a**. The entire thing needs to be released and I suspect that the Gruden stuff was targeted. I mean he still deserves to go but I want to see what else is there.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014759#Comment_118014759

We'll have to agree to disagree here.

To me if:

• Person A has done something seriously wrong and due to lies they are likely to get away with it and face no punishment
• Then Person B is not 'wrong' for releasing any relevant evidence that proves how wrong person A was so they can be punished fairly

Now if Person B was to release saucy private emails between Person A and his wife that have no bearing on the situation then I'd agree they'd be also wrong - that however isn't the issue here.

Ya sure look we can agree to disagree

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013362#Comment_118013362

I'm not defending his comments. I'm giving out about private emails being revealed in the media. I'm also saying that there's no way he could be any of those things in real life and had the career he has had.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015710#Comment_118015710

So are you willing to let me view all your emails so I can see if you ever said anything wrong?

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118016503#Comment_118016503

Yes you could be all those thing in real life and have that sort of careers. History is littered with scumbags, sociopaths, psychopaths and just plain old, downright assholes who are successful in spite of their behaviour or in many cases because of it.

They are not personal emails if he is sending them to corporate accounts to be honest. If he's sending them from a private account, to another private account. Plain old gmail to gmail, hotmail to yahoo, then maybe, but he's sending these to named corporate accounts, the contents of which are frankly readily availble for many reasons to that organisation to be reviewed if they want.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013292#Comment_118013292

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013749#Comment_118013749

Lol, you agree with the guy, as if you knew, after spouting that rubbish response to me.

You've been found out in those two posts.

Lmfao.

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118016503#Comment_118016503

This is getting ridiculous. Many people have had horrible views and had successful careers up until being found out. Plenty have done far worse for a long time and held onto their careers for a while before being found out and I am sure many continue to do so.

Emails are real life...

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118017295#Comment_118017295

What we are at right here is not real life for many, they called it the internet. Emails are similar to lots of people who don't take online conversations seriously.

There is no way on this earthly world that you could be racist and have an NFL head coaching position at anytime in the last 30 years.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118017204#Comment_118017204

He wasn't exactly wrong and he was closer to being right than you

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118017347#Comment_118017347

If I send or receive an email such as the one gruden is sending with my company email, it is a real problem.

Your logic makes absolutely no sense. Yeah, you could be a racist and a highly successful coach. People conceal things very welll

What about the incredibly successful Penn State coach? Hardly a beacon of being a good human. Shitheads are very good at concealing their shittines