The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

jack presley

eagle eye wrote: »

Yes I agree but over the last couple of years Flacco has looked even worse.
As I said I'm expecting this move might work out well for Flacco, I don't think the Ravens had a good setup for him.

Flacco’s just entering his prime according to QB talent spotter John Elway.

jack presley

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Ah now guys - give us a break - it was a demonstration that the power rankings are bullsh*t and the guys who claim to be analysts are taking money under false pretences. I could have picked any one of half a dozen teams - I picked the Broncos because it is the one I know best.

Of course they’re bs. And doubly so in March. Journalists have columns to write and space to fill and power rankings are an easy way out. I doubt even they think anyone will take them seriously.

Realt Dearg Sec

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Ah, we shouldn't judge really, it's the off season, jrg is clearly a pretty obsessive fan, there's only so many ways to get your fix this time of year, those articles serve a purpose. But obviously the guy doing the ranking is wrong, that's probably not even by accident.

Ah now guys - give us a break - it was a demonstration that the power rankings are bullsh*t and the guys who claim to be analysts are taking money under false pretences. I could have picked any one of half a dozen teams - I picked the Broncos because it is the one I know best.

I was giving you a break! Reading my post back it might sound sarcastic, I really didn't mean to be, I think you're absolutely right, the notion that the bears are now way worse for losing fangio while ye are no better for getting him is on its face silly. I think though that power rankings, always of nearly no value, become even less valuable right before the draft.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Paully D wrote: »

https://twitter.com/tomecurran/status/1109158087276064768?s=21

I’m struggling to think of anything I’d want to see less. :eek:

Earlier in the week it was reported that charges would be dropped for all involved (not the traffickers) if they agreed to community service and a admission that they would have been found guilty in a court. None took the offer it seems.
A mate of mine showed me a clip of the Hulk Hogan sex tape, and that was bad enough. A 77 year old sex tape, ain't for my viewing :pac:

Oat23

Paully D wrote: »

I’m struggling to think of anything I’d want to see less. :eek:

You obviously haven't had the misfortune of seeing Mike Glennon as starting QB for your team..yet.


I would rather watch Robert Kraft get tugged. On a loop.

jack presley

Oat23 wrote: »

You obviously haven't had the misfortune of seeing Mike Glennon as starting QB for your team..yet.


I would rather watch Robert Kraft get tugged. On a loop.

Being serious, is there anything to be gained from the video being released? Surely use it in the trial (if there is one) and show the jury but apart from that, I can't understand what releasing the video will achieve, apart from humiliating Kraft.

Oat23

jack presley wrote: »

Being serious, is there anything to be gained from the video being released? Surely use it in the trial (if there is one) and show the jury but apart from that, I can't understand what releasing the video will achieve, apart from humiliating Kraft.

Maybe it has something to do with the sunshine law in Florida where a lot of these things have to be made public on request.


There was a twitter moment that popped up on my feed yesterday about this very law actually: https://twitter.com/i/moments/1108752072021852160

jack presley

Oat23 wrote: »

Maybe it has something to do with the sunshine law in Florida where a lot of these things have to be made public on request.


There was a twitter moment that popped up on my feed yesterday about this very law actually: https://twitter.com/i/moments/1108752072021852160

Yeah, I'm not doubting there's a law, I just think it's a bit of a ridiculous law. My original question remains, what's to be gained by anyone not directly involved with the case seeing this video?

They'd probably say it's in the name of transparency and openness in the justice system but I think it's unnecessary. Probably why I'm a bum posting on a message board and not a highly paid lawyer.

Paully D

https://twitter.com/bradkelly17/status/1109515301656375297?s=21

Goes out a Super Bowl champion too. Shame he had to retire but he’s made a lot of his life under difficult circumstances it seems.

j8wk2feszrnpao

jack presley wrote: »

My original question remains, what's to be gained by anyone not directly involved with the case seeing this video?

Not a lot. Maybe the humiliation makes some others think about not getting involved in such activities. There’s been some extensive coverage on Pats radio; apparently it’s widespread in Miami due to the age profile in the area.
Kraft has come out with the standard lawyer/PR written apology rubbish.

eagle eye

Mariah Puny Root wrote:

Not a lot. Maybe the humiliation makes some others think about not getting involved in such activities. There’s been some extensive coverage on Pats radio; apparently it’s widespread in Miami due to the age profile in the area. Kraft has come out with the standard lawyer/PR written apology rubbish.

Why would you want to humiliate a man who has done so many good things in his life though? I'm talking outside football with charities and other stuff.
I don't think it would stop others. If you want this type of thing you have issues imo. People will just be more careful about where they procure the service.

Itssoeasy

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Not a lot. Maybe the humiliation makes some others think about not getting involved in such activities. There’s been some extensive coverage on Pats radio; apparently it’s widespread in Miami due to the age profile in the area.
Kraft has come out with the standard lawyer/PR written apology rubbish.

Was that released yesterday ? If it was then I saw it. Yeah the usual "process/journey" rubbish which seems universal when you've been caught doing something you shouldn't have been doing.

jack presley

I read yesterday somewhere that his plan for getting the case thrown out is that the car stop that was used to identify him was an illegal stop and as a result, anything stemming from that is invalid. I've no idea if that's got merit or whether it's clutching at straws.

But as has been said, it's not being found guilty that his main issue (he'll only get a slap on the wrist if he is), it's making sure that tape never sees the light of day.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Was that released yesterday ? If it was then I saw it. Yeah the usual "process/journey" rubbish which seems universal when you've been caught doing something you shouldn't have been doing.

Yeah, yesterday. What he did isn’t really a big deal. The more I heard about that area, it’s really common (and common knowledge) with so many retirees in Miami. I guess he felt it was just a service that the women willingly provided, and were happy to be paid for. But that explanation wouldn’t cut it, so it has to be one of the usual apologies when someone is caught.
The video is the big factor for him. As explained above, he might be looking at a technicality to get off. Either way, he’s looking at a suspension, which really isn’t much of a hit to an owner (maybe off committees etc) as they’ll still sit in the owners box for every game.

The_Honeybadger

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Yeah, yesterday. What he did isn’t really a big deal. The more I heard about that area, it’s really common (and common knowledge) with so many retirees in Miami. I guess he felt it was just a service that the women willingly provided, and were happy to be paid for. But that explanation wouldn’t cut it, so it has to be one of the usual apologies when someone is caught.
The video is the big factor for him. As explained above, he might be looking at a technicality to get off. Either way, he’s looking at a suspension, which really isn’t much of a hit to an owner (maybe off committees etc) as they’ll still sit in the owners box for every game.

The embarrassment is by far the biggest factor. You are right I don’t think he will be worried about fines or suspensions. The whole affair is hugely embarrassing for him and his family. If the video comes out it would make things a lot worse and as others have said there is nothing to be gained from it.

They seem to love a good public flogging in the US so I wouldn’t be surprised if it did emerge.

kmart6

Not too surprising....

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1109936822333825025

From his Instagram:

It all started at 20 years old on stage at the NFL draft when my dream came true, and now here I am about to turn 30 in a few months with a decision I feel is the biggest of my life so far. I will be retiring from the game of football today. I am so grateful for the opportunity that Mr. Kraft and Coach Belichick gave to me when drafting my silliness in 2010. My life experiences over the last 9 years have been amazing both on and off the field. The people I have meet, the relationships I have built, the championships I have been apart of, I just want to thank the whole New England Patriots organization for every opportunity I have been giving and learning the great values of life that I can apply to mine. Thank you to all of Pats Nation around the world for the incredible support since I have been apart of this 1st class organization. Thank you for everyone accepting who I am and the dedication I have put into my work to be the best player I could be. But now its time to move forward and move forward with a big smile knowing that the New England Patriots Organization, Pats Nation, and all my fans will be truly a big part of my heart for rest of my life. It was truly an incredible honor to play for such a great established organization and able to come in to continue and contribute to keep building success. To all my current and past teammates, thank you for making each team every year special to be apart of. I will truly miss you guys. Cheers to all who have been part of this journey, cheers to the past for the incredible memories, and a HUGE cheers to the uncertain of whats next.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Massive blow to the Pats. Even though he’d a standard TE season, he stepped up in the playoffs. Leaves a huge gap to fill.
The most dominant TE I saw, injuries probably prevented him from owning every TE stat. Those injuries finally have taken their toll, owes nothing to the organization/fans. Leaves behind great memories and a legacy; he will be missed.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

I said it in the Pats thread, but it says everything how injuries have had a major negative impact on Gronk's career, yet he'll almost definitely still be a first-ballot HOF. The most dominant TE of all-time, and imo he's right up there with the GOATs of the sport. Of course he'll never be recognised as the latter because of his position, nevertheless, legend of the game.

Itssoeasy

I see gronk has retired. A nine year career that if not for injuries would nave been better.

Billy86

Tony G is to my mind still the best TE of all time when you look at entire careers, but Gronk at his best was incomparable to surely anyone to ever play the position. I'd go so far as to put him up with Randy Moss and Megatron (and maybe TO) as the most dominant receiver I have ever seen, quite possibly above those two (though Antonio Brown is probably the best overall receiver I've seen).

Huge loss to the Patriots, even if injuries had taken their toll just having him out there basically necessitates the defense to dedicate two players to him almost by default. A shame too, he's an idiot but a lovable idiot and one of my favourite players of the decade to watch, hands down.

eagle eye

I'd have Witten and Gronk as the two best in my time watching the game. They were just complete tight ends, great run and pass blockers and excellent receivers too.

Paully D

Gronk is the best TE to ever play the game.

He was literally unstoppable.

raze_them_all_

Paully D wrote: »

Gronk is the best TE to ever play the game.

He was literally unstoppable.

He was when fully healthy. But Tony gonzalez to me is just amazing for the consistency and length of career

j8wk2feszrnpao

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

He was when fully healthy. But Tony gonzalez to me is just amazing for the consistency and length of career

Gonzalez was great. I remember Pats played him at Falcons, and even with double coverage, he dominated; couldn’t stop him. Amazing longevity, 270 regular season games to Gronks 115.
Both in their Prime, I’d take Gronk; Gronk 79 TDs compared to 111 for Gonzalez, an example of how great he was.

Jolly Red Giant

Gronk was one of the greatest - was he the best ever - as always that is a debate.

This guy changed the game as a TE - Kellen Winslow

eagle eye

Winslow was class for sure but imo Witten and then Gronk just brought it to a different level. They were both good enough to play as tackles both on passing and run blocking and then as receivers they were excellent.
If we are talking greatest over a decent spell then it's Gronk, over a longer career it's Witten.

helimachoptor

Packers bears for the first game.

MileHighGuy

I wouldn't put Tony Gonzalez' greatness down to longevity alone, his best 9 year stretch holds up pretty well against Gronkowskis too.

748 - 9102 - 61 compared to 521 - 7861 - 79.

All this was accumulated in a very different era too. In 1997, his first year in the league not a single QB broke 4000 yards. The last year Gronk played 14 QBs did.

Also worth remembering that Gronk has had Tom Brady pitching him the ball for the entirety of his career, Tony G's QB's included Elvis Grbac, Brodie Croyle, Tyler Thigpin and Damon Huard. (Full disclosure - he also had a half decent Rich Gannon - though not Oakland Rich Gannon - he couldn't win the job off Grbac which tells you a lot, and the unfortunate Trent Green)

He put up these mammoth numbers, which at the time far outstripped his contemporaries, did it at a time when the league was not as pass heavy, on some pretty mediocre Kansas City Teams, did it for 17(!) years and only missed 2 games his entire career.

Gronkowski was a menace though. You hated the fact he was on the other team, and always seemed to come up big when it mattered too. He has the championships and such a high peak when he was productive, but Tony G is the best TE I've seen play.

eagle eye

To those rating Tony G, can we hear your take on his pass and run blocking?

Itssoeasy

helimachoptor wrote: »

Packers bears for the first game.

Why ? Isn’t the super bowl champion one of the teams that open at home in recent times ?

Ohmeha

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Why ? Isn’t the super bowl champion one of the teams that open at home in recent times ?

Yeah for at least the past decade it has been the Superbowl champs hosting the opening Thursday night game on NBC

Strange one, Patriots will host the Sunday night game of week 1 against a team to be confirmed, so it can't be due to the Patriots playing an opponent that would draw poor NBC ratings if it was the opening game

OldMrBrennan83

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Why ? Isn’t the super bowl champion one of the teams that open at home in recent times ?

Hundredth season thing I'd say.

j8wk2feszrnpao

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Hundredth season thing I'd say.

It is. It was mentioned on Pats radio a few weeks back. I’m glad it’s Packers v Bears so I can avoid it and Pats are on the late Sun game which is easier for me than the late Thurs.

MileHighGuy

eagle eye wrote: »

To those rating Tony G, can we hear your take on his pass and run blocking?

I'm no expert on it by any stretch, but I don't think he was a liability in the run game, and doubt he was left in to block on passing plays much. I stand to be corrected though

eagle eye

MileHighGuy wrote:

I'm no expert on it by any stretch, but I don't think he was a liability in the run game, and doubt he was left in to block on passing plays much. I stand to be corrected though

Well my memory is that he was an awfully poor run blocker for a good few years but improved a bit as he got older, still nowhere near the level of Gronk or Witten. And they tried to use him on the line a couple of times but it didn't work out well.
This is why I call Witten and Gronk the top two because they were great at the whole package.
Gonzalez was basically a receiver with the tight end moniker.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Worth noting as well that Gronk really only played 7 seasons worth of football. He missed 29 regular season games over his 9 years, which obviously doesn't include the games he went off injured.
Of Gonzalez's 17 seasons he missed 2 games. Absolutely incredible longevity.

eagle eye

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote:

Worth noting as well that Gronk really only played 7 seasons worth of football. He missed 29 regular season games over his 9 years, which obviously doesn't include the games he went off injured. Of Gonzalez's 17 seasons he missed 2 games. Absolutely incredible longevity.

Amazing how you take two seasons off him for 29 games, which is not a full two seasons and don't bother to add the 16 postseason games.

MileHighGuy

eagle eye wrote:

Well my memory is that he was an awfully poor run blocker for a good few years but improved a bit as he got older, still nowhere near the level of Gronk or Witten. And they tried to use him on the line a couple of times but it didn't work out well. This is why I call Witten and Gronk the top two because they were great at the whole package. Gonzalez was basically a receiver with the tight end moniker.

Possibly, there certainly wasn't the same amount of coverage (all 22 films) and analysis of the game available to hand out grades and statistics as we do now. Not to mention we all know the modern tight end (certainly any that will get a shout for the hall of fame) are going in for their pass productivity.

Those Chiefs team had well above average ground games while he played as part of the line, and as mentioned, although he didn't stay in to pass block often, he was excellent when he did.

All you need to know is that if gronk Continued to play for 9 more years with the same production as his first 9, he still wouldn't have the same number of catches or yards as Gonzalez. That's is not just incredible longevity, but incredible production and consistancy over a career twice as long.

Gronk was great though.

Oat23

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Hundredth season thing I'd say.

Both the league and Bears are celebrating their 100th season so yes. That is the reason.

Far better opening game than Pats v anyone.

eagle eye

MileHighGuy wrote:

Those Chiefs team had well above average ground games while he played as part of the line, and as mentioned, although he didn't stay in to pass block often, he was excellent when he did.

He was awful at pass blocking.

MileHighGuy wrote:

All you need to know is that if gronk Continued to play for 9 more years with the same production as his first 9, he still wouldn't have the same number of catches or yards as Gonzalez. That's is not just incredible longevity, but incredible production and consistancy over a career twice as long.

Gronk spent a lot of time pass blocking which Gonzalez didn't. Witten too.
I don't understand how you seem to just dismiss Witten.
Have we numbers for yac?

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

eagle eye wrote: »

Amazing how you take two seasons off him for 29 games, which is not a full two seasons and don't bother to add the 16 postseason games.

Don't go getting your knickers in a twist e-e, regular season stats were brought up earlier so we're talking regular season games. There's obviously no comparison between gronk and gonzalez in the post season.
What I meant by my above post is just how utterly ridiculous Gronk's stats are for this 9 seasons, as they're more like for 7 seasons.

j8wk2feszrnpao

MileHighGuy wrote: »

All you need to know is that if gronk Continued to play for 9 more years with the same production as his first 9, he still wouldn't have the same number of catches or yards as Gonzalez. That's is not just incredible longevity, but incredible production and consistancy over a career twice as long.

That's why he's in the HOF . Gonzalez was great. But from memory, he was a bit like Jimmy Graham, a TE that lined up outside the vast majority of the time with little blocking in comparison to Gronk.

Gronk played 43% of games that Gonzalez did (115 to 270). Yet Gronk, in 47% less gametime, has 71% of the TDs that Gonzalez has (79 to 111).
Bumping Gronks gametime by a factor of 2.35 (to match Gonzalez) you get:

• Catches 1,224 (Gonzalez 1,325)
• Yards 18,473 (Gonzalez 15,127)
• TDs 185 (Gonzalez 111)

Of course the above is kinda redundant, as he didn't play those games; but just a way to show how great Gronk was while performing all the blocking requirements of a TE as well. And that's before you look at their post season stats, where Gronk blows away Gonzalez; 16 games (Gonzalez 7), catches 81 (to 30), yards 1,1163 (to 286), TDs 12 (to 4). But with Brady throwing to Gronk, he'd that advantage

j8wk2feszrnpao

Oat23 wrote: »

Both the league and Bears are celebrating their 100th season so yes. That is the reason.

Far better opening game than Pats v anyone.

A Pats v Chiefs game would be better.
Packers have won 17 of the last 21 games against the Bears. Bears maybe have the edge now (they won the last game), but it's been a predicable result for quite a while (pretty much as dominate as Pats v AFC teams in that period).

BizzyC

When it comes to talent, I'd put Gronk at the top of the pile with Gonzalez above Witten.
I know Witten does more blocking, but Gonzalez was such a force as a receiver.

When it comes down to best of all time arguments, I think Gronk's longevity lets him down.

Gonzalez played 17 seasons, with 14 pro-bowls.
Even taking the receiving stats out of the equation, that's an incredible career and one stat that Gronk would not have matched with another 8 years of playing.

Shedite27

munstermagic11 wrote: »

A Pats v Chiefs game would be better.
Packers have won 17 of the last 21 games against the Bears. Bears maybe have the edge now (they won the last game), but it's been a predicable result for quite a while (pretty much as dominate as Pats v AFC teams in that period).

Pats/Chiefs would be massive ratings any week of the season, no point in wasting it on opening night

j8wk2feszrnpao

Shedite27 wrote: »

Pats/Chiefs would be massive ratings any week of the season, no point in wasting it on opening night

Agreed, but was just speaking about it being a better game.

Knex*

I think Gronk skewed the field so heavily in his offense's favour, like no other tight end. Perhaps some recency bias, but I'd put his ahead of Witten, Gonzalez or anyone else.

At his peak he was like Gonzalez and Mark Bavaro rolled in one.

Blut2

Gronk was a fantastic player to watch. One of the most impressive things I read about him is he's never touched a single cent of his playing income over the years. Hes just banked it all, while living off of endorsements money.

For all his reputation as a dumb party jock he's obviously got some smarts.

Shedite27

Blut2 wrote: »

Gronk was a fantastic player to watch. One of the most impressive things I read about him is he's never touched a single cent of his playing income over the years. Hes just banked it all, while living off of endorsements money.

For all his reputation as a dumb party jock he's obviously got some smarts.

Marshawn Lynch and Saquon Barkely done the same. Helps that you're making millions in endorsements, but fair dues

Oat23

munstermagic11 wrote: »

A Pats v Chiefs game would be better.
Packers have won 17 of the last 21 games against the Bears. Bears maybe have the edge now (they won the last game), but it's been a predicable result for quite a while (pretty much as dominate as Pats v AFC teams in that period).

I was talking ratings wise. Bears/Packers was the highest rated prime time game last season. It's also the most storied rivalry in the league between two of the oldest franchises, so it makes sense to have it open the 100th season.