The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

Jolly Red Giant

Fallout from Von Miller trade rumours - Miller's mother went on a rant against Elway on instagram - Elway later confirmed that the rumours are false and the Broncos have no plans to trade Miller.

jack presley

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Fallout from Von Miller trade rumours - Miller's mother went on a rant against Elway on instagram - Elway later confirmed that the rumours are false and the Broncos have no plans to trade Miller.

Shock horror...!!!!!! Fake rumours in January, what a surprise.

Realt Dearg Sec

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

All-Pro teams announced.

FIRST TEAM

OFFENSE

Quarterback: Patrick Mahomes, Kansas City Chiefs

Running Back: Todd Gurley, Los Angeles Rams

Flex: Tyreek Hill, Kansas City Chiefs

Tight End: Travis Kelce, Kansas City Chiefs

Wide Receivers: Michael Thomas, New Orleans Saints; DeAndre Hopkins, Houston Texans

Left Tackle: David Bakhtiari, Green Bay Packers

Right Tackle: Mitchell Schwartz, Kansas City Chiefs

Left Guard: Quenton Nelson, Indianapolis Colts

Right Guard: Zack Martin, Dallas Cowboys

Center: Jason Kelce, Philadelphia Eagles

DEFENCE

Edge Rushers: J.J. Watt, Houston Texans; Khalil Mack, Chicago Bears

Interior Linemen: Aaron Donald, Los Angeles Rams; Fletcher Cox, Philadelphia Eagles

Linebackers: Luke Kuechly, Carolina Panthers; Bobby Wagner, Seattle Seahawks; Darius Leonard, Indianapolis Colts

Cornerbacks: Kyle Fuller, Chicago Bears; Stephon Gilmore, New England Patriots

Safeties: Eddie Jackson, Chicago Bears; Derwin James, Los Angeles Chargers

Defensive Back: Desmond King, Los Angeles Chargers

SPECIAL TEAMS

Placekicker: Justin Tucker, Baltimore Ravens

Punter: Michael Dickson, Seattle Seahawks

Kick Returner: Andre Roberts, New York Jets

Punt Returner: Tarik Cohen, Chicago Bears

Special Teamer: Adrian Phillips, Los Angeles Chargers

SECOND TEAM

OFFENSE

Quarterback: Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints

Running Back: Ezekiel Elliott, Dallas Cowboys

Flex: Christian McCaffrey, Carolina Panthers

Tight End: George Kittle, San Francisco 49ers

Wide Receivers: Julio Jones, Atlanta Falcons; Tyreek Hill, Kansas City Chiefs

Left Tackle: Duane Brown, Seattle Seahawks; Terron Armstead, New Orleans Saints

Right Tackle: Ryan Ramczyk, New Orleans Saints

Left Guard: Joel Bitonio, Cleveland Browns

Right Guard: Marshal Yanda, Baltimore Ravens

Center: Maurkice Pouncey, Pittsburgh Steelers

DEFENSE

Edge Rushers: Von Miller, Denver Broncos; Cameron Jordan, New Orleans Saints; Myles Garrett, Cleveland Browns; Danielle Hunter, Minnesota Vikings
Interior Linemen: Chris Jones, Kansas City Chiefs; J.J. Watt, Houston Texans

Linebackers: Von Miller, Denver Broncos; C.J. Mosley, Baltimore Ravens; Leighton Vander Esch, Dallas Cowboys

Cornerbacks: Byron Jones, Dallas Cowboys; Xavien Howard, Miami Dolphins

Safeties: Jamal Adams, New York Jets; Harrison Smith, Minnesota Vikings

Defensive Back: Derwin James, Los Angeles Chargers

SPECIAL TEAMS

Placekicker: Aldrick Rosas, New York Giants

Punter: Johnny Hekker, Los Angeles Rams

Kick Returner: Cordarrelle Patterson, New England Patriots

Punt Returner: Desmond King, Los Angeles Chargers

Special Teamer: Cory Littleton, Los Angeles Rams

Ridiculous that they name jj watt twice in two different positions because they can't decide what he is. Akiem Hicks should have been second team all pro on the interior.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Ridiculous that they name jj watt twice in two different positions because they can't decide what he is. Akiem Hicks should have been second team all pro on the interior.

It's a joke in that sense, likewise with Tyreek Hill. Players should be eligible for 1 position on D or O along with ST.
Apparently Von Miller's votes were split as well as he was down as a DE and LB, and could be why he only made 2nd team.
It's even worse when you take into account that it could cost players hundreds of thousands of dollars in bonuses.

raze_them_all_

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

It's a joke in that sense, likewise with Tyreek Hill. Players should be eligible for 1 position on D or O along with ST.
Apparently Von Miller's votes were split as well as he was down as a DE and LB, and could be why he only made 2nd team.
It's even worse when you take into account that it could cost players hundreds of thousands of dollars in bonuses.

Wasn't mack the first one ever to be nominated to both

Foxtrol

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Wasn't mack the first one ever to be nominated to both

Justin Smith was nominated to both in 2011 and 2012 anyway. Would think there are other examples out there as well.

brinty

No disrespect to Gurley or hill but how is Zeke Elliott not first team all pro. leasing rusher on a team with first red zone offence with a patched up o line missing up to three all pros at times!! Think he also topped all purpose yards too (or McCaffrey)
Now maybe I'm biased but I'd make the case fir anyone with his numbers.

adrian522

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Ridiculous that they name jj watt twice in two different positions because they can't decide what he is. Akiem Hicks should have been second team all pro on the interior.

I would have thought DeForest Buckner with his 12 sacks should have been in there to be honest.

Realt Dearg Sec

adrian522 wrote: »

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Ridiculous that they name jj watt twice in two different positions because they can't decide what he is. Akiem Hicks should have been second team all pro on the interior.

I would have thought DeForest Buckner with his 12 sacks should have been in there to be honest.

There's a case to be made for a lot of people (even a non Bear), no good reason to have one guy in twice though, it's just a quirk of the way it's selected based on 4-3 D. As has been mentioned, Miller actually got screwed on the same principle that Watt got over rewarded.

The tyreek hill one is even worse though, given he was already in as a "flex" player, to then also be on second team as a receiver. Makes no sense.

Knex*

Barkley not getting an All Pro seems daft to me, especially with CMC getting the flex spot, despite having less overall AP votes than Barkley.

Foxtrol

Kittle broke the all time yards in a season record for TE while playing most of the year with the 2nd/3rd string QBs and didn't make the first team. He also had more yards after the catch than any player in football this year or any year since 2010.

The whole Pro and All pro selections really are an annual farce.

Knex*

To be fair, Kittle's stats are extremely close to Kelce but Kelce had double the number of TDs.

I actually think Kelce deserved first team.

Foxtrol

Knex. wrote: »

To be fair, Kittle's stats are extremely close to Kelce but Kelce had double the number of TDs.

I actually think Kelce deserved first team.

Some stats are close but Kittle had over 300 yards after the catch more than Kelce (881 v 574) and of course the number of TDs are better for Kelce when he in a better offense, with a load of great guys around him to take attention in the red zone than Kittle, and the small benefit of Mahomes throwing to him.

It isn't a completely egregious choice but if the shoe was on the other foot or if the likes of Gronk did what Kittle did there'd be no question of them getting first team. How big the name of the player and/or the attention their team they're on has gets them their selection.

eagle eye

I'd have to agree that Kittle deserved to be in ahead of Kelce.
When you think about it,night you are giving Kelce tight end and Hill a receiving spot then Mahomes should be losing out to Brees.
The receiver I thought should have been in that's not is Devante Adams. I thought he was phenomenal this season.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Field Yates
@FieldYates

The Colts have: a franchise QB, terrific first year head coach, excellent GM, a roster with no bad contracts, a standout OL, a well-coached defense, draft capital and boat loads of cap space. Primed for a massive run of success.

https://mobile.twitter.com/fieldyates/status/1081709919362039815?s=21

Colts have 9 draft picks this year along with over 100mil in cap space. Not to mention the fact that Big Ben, Brady and Rivers aren't far off retiring. They could dominate the AFC for the next few years (if Luck stays healthy).

eagle eye

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote:

Colts have 9 draft picks this year along with over 100mil in cap space. Not to mention the fact that Big Ben, Brady and Rivers aren't far off retiring. They could dominate the AFC for the next few years (if Luck stays healthy).

Well Rivers just turned 37 and really looks after himself so he could easily have another four seasons in him.
Roethlisberger just turned 36, he hasn't slowed down to this point so again could have a few years left.
I agree the Colts are in a great position and I don't think those QB's can stop it even at their very best.
The reason I quoted you is because all thes draft picks will help but its a three year window before they have to pay people and I think both Roethlisberger and Rivers will still be around then. It's hard to predict how long more Brady will play.

Billy86

eagle eye wrote: »

Luke Kuechly is the most consistent high level defender in the league for the last seven years.

Yeah actually fair to throw him in as well. I think Miller does more on an individual basis but kuechlys overall influence on his defense is better.

I would still take watt or Donald over either though. Watt had the injuries sure but otherwise is/was on a tear for greatest defensive player ever, while Donald (who can only be judged from 2014 onwards) is doing things to an extent I've never seen in the league from his position.

Any of the four would be good as guaranteed to make any defense, brilliant or awful, instantly a hell of a lot better though.

Paully D

Both the All-Pro and Pro Bowl are a load of bollocks anyway.

The Pro Bowl is just popularity contest whereby the amount of Twitter followers a player has is more representative of their chances of selection than their play on the field, while you have Peter King now saying Antonio Brown wouldn't be in his top 20 receivers this year for the All-Pro :pac:

Aside from the usual crowd who are popular and going to be in every year regardless, I don't understand why players let their agents negotiate bonuses for the above into their contract when the likelihood is that unless they are popular, even if their play deserves it, they won't be in. Teams must piss themselves laughing.

I genuinely have no idea why sensible and knowledgeable posters on here waste their time even discussing the selections.

Foxtrol

Paully D wrote: »

Both the All-Pro and Pro Bowl are a load of bollocks anyway.

The Pro Bowl is just popularity contest whereby the amount of Twitter followers a player has is more representative of their chances of selection than their play on the field, while you have Peter King now saying Antonio Brown wouldn't be in his top 20 receivers this year for the All-Pro :pac:

Aside from the usual crowd who are popular and going to be in every year regardless, I don't understand why players let their agents negotiate bonuses for the above into their contract when the likelihood is that unless they are popular, even if their play deserves it, they won't be in. Teams must piss themselves laughing.

I genuinely have no idea why sensible and knowledgeable posters on here waste their time even discussing the selections.

Think most are posting on it like you are just pointing out what a mess it is

I can see why agents to those popular players get the bonuses added as there's a very good chance their player will make it and it probably money the team isn't going to guarantee anyway. For example, for the likes of JJ or Brady the only way they aren't getting picked for it would be if they are injured for most of the season. It is probably win-win for both sides.

In general though, it is not a wise decision from an agent if they can get any other type of incentive in there instead.

Realt Dearg Sec

Didn't watt get a pro bowl once when he was injured the whole season? Or am I remembering that wrong?

Jolly Red Giant

Denver Broncos have refused permission to the Falcons and the Bengals to interview Gary Kubiak for their OC vacancies.

Kubiak wants to return to coaching in an OC capacity (not a HC) - and it is clear now that whoever is hired as Broncos HC will have Kubiak working with the offence.

eagle eye

Jolly Red Giant wrote:

Kubiak wants to return to coaching in an OC capacity (not a HC) - and it is clear now that whoever is hired as Broncos HC will have Kubiak working with the offence.

That doesn't seem like a very good situation for a HC. You get blamed for everything that goes wrong because the fans love Kubiak.

Jolly Red Giant

eagle eye wrote: »

That doesn't seem like a very good situation for a HC. You get blamed for everything that goes wrong because the fans love Kubiak.

I actually think it is a good situation for an oncoming HC - Kubiak is one of the few people that Elway will listen to - having Kubiak in your corner could be a big help to a new HC.

Looks like the HC job is coming down to Fangio and Munchak - personally I would prefer Munchak (the guy was decent in Tennessee) and from what I hear Fangio is a bit of a bully (and he said he has done no preparation for his interviews).

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

That doesn't seem like a very good situation for a HC. You get blamed for everything that goes wrong because the fans love Kubiak.

And probably rules out any of the better offensive minded coaches who might have been interested in the role.

Jolly Red Giant

Foxtrol wrote: »

And probably rules out any of the better offensive minded coaches who might have been interested in the role.

Like who?

Foxtrol

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Like who?

Literally any decent offensive minded coach. It however looks like the only one the Broncos are looking at is Zac Taylor and he'd be crazy to go somewhere where he wouldn't be able to use his own skill set and was 100% set up to be another fall guy if things didn't work out. I'm confident that interview is just another one to cover Elway's ass, as if Taylor is hired elsewhere and does well Elway will say it was someone else's fault he wasn't hired.

Sure what does any of this matter, weren't you adamant that Mike Shanahan was a lock to be the next HC?

Jolly Red Giant

Foxtrol wrote: »

Literally any decent offensive minded coach.

Again - like who ?

Foxtrol wrote: »

Sure what does any of this matter, weren't you adamant that Mike Shanahan was a lock to be the next HC?

Don't think I ever said he was a 'lock' - did say that I wanted him - and it still could not be ruled out that Shanahan will end up getting the job.

By all accounts Pagano was the most impressive of the candidates interviewed to date - and Taylor was being interviewed primarily as a candidate for some sort of offensive role.

Now - the Broncos is not the most attractive destination - they don't have a QB (unlike the Packers, the Browns, the Jets, even the Cards) - and the ownership issue is a mess. Eliis came out last weekend and said the HC hire was solely Elway's decision - yet it has now emerged that Ellis has been meeting each of the candidates one-to-one.

Saying all this - the HC candidate pool is very poor this season (which is the reason why I think Shanahan is still an option). If it is not Shanahan - I can see the Broncos hiring either Munchak (the likely favourite) or Pagano. Both have strong connections with Colorado and would be very conscious of the traditional culture of the franchise.

Foxtrol

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Again - like who ?

Are you expecting me to list out every offensive minded coach in the league or the ones that are getting an interview this off season? I'm not taking the effort to do either.

By all accounts Pagano was the most impressive of the candidates interviewed to date - and Taylor was being interviewed primarily as a candidate for some sort of offensive role.

Why would Taylor move from one of the best offenses in the league, where he is regarded as the guy in charge of the offense outside of the HC, to the mess that is the Broncos offense, where he'd be #2 to Kubiak who then reports to the HC?

As I said, the Taylor interview is Elway covering himself, just like leaking that Ellis is meeting with the HCs. You can set your watch to how he does business but the Broncos fans seem to lap it up. It's really poisonous.

Jolly Red Giant

Foxtrol wrote: »

Are you expecting me to list out every offensive minded coach in the league or the ones that are getting an interview this off season? I'm not taking the effort to do either.

Are we not talking about the Broncos HC vacancy - and you suggested that having Kubiak ruled out the better offensive minded coaches for the job - I asked who ?

It isn't that hard a question

Foxtrol wrote: »

Why would Taylor move from one of the best offenses in the league, where he is regarded as the guy in charge of the offense outside of the HC, to the mess that is the Broncos offense, where he'd be #2 to Kubiak who then reports to the HC?

The Rams offence begins and ends with McVay. Taylor is the QB coach. When LeFleur went to the Titans he was replaced by a passing coordinator and a running coordinator (neither of whom was Taylor).

Foxtrol wrote: »

As I said, the Taylor interview is Elway covering himself, just like leaking that Ellis is meeting with the HCs. You can set your watch to how he does business but the Broncos fans seem to lap it up. It's really poisonous.

And you are wrong - the purpose of interviewing Taylor is to get him on the offensive side of the ball. There is no guarantee that the intention is for Kubiak to be the OC - the Broncos also want him to work with the FO scouting players and planning for the draft - Kubiak wants to be involved in coaching - not necessarily calling plays (there have even bee suggestions that he will be the QB coach). Taylor as OC would work with Kubiak - but, more importantly, is the fact that Taylor would be brought in with the intention of being groomed to take over as HC at some point in the next 2/3 years.

The Broncos need stability at the moment - similar to hiring Fox to stablise the team after McDisaster - that is why Shanahan/Pagano/Munchak are being touted as HC now - stability. It gives the Broncos a couple of years to find a QB, sort out the ownership and then change the approach to take advantage of a franchise QB.

Foxtrol

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Are we not talking about the Broncos HC vacancy - and you suggested that having Kubiak ruled out the better offensive minded coaches for the job - I asked who ?

It isn't that hard a question

The Rams offence begins and ends with McVay. Taylor is the QB coach. When LeFleur went to the Titans he was replaced by a passing coordinator and a running coordinator (neither of whom was Taylor).

And you are wrong - the purpose of interviewing Taylor is to get him on the offensive side of the ball. There is no guarantee that the intention is for Kubiak to be the OC - the Broncos also want him to work with the FO scouting players and planning for the draft - Kubiak wants to be involved in coaching - not necessarily calling plays (there have even bee suggestions that he will be the QB coach). Taylor as OC would work with Kubiak - but, more importantly, is the fact that Taylor would be brought in with the intention of being groomed to take over as HC at some point in the next 2/3 years.

The Broncos need stability at the moment - similar to hiring Fox to stablise the team after McDisaster - that is why Shanahan/Pagano/Munchak are being touted as HC now - stability. It gives the Broncos a couple of years to find a QB, sort out the ownership and then change the approach to take advantage of a franchise QB.

You're doing that thing again where you state something like it is a fact and when it is questioned you start moving the goal posts.

Your original post stated that Kubiak wants to be an OC and 'whoever is hired as Broncos HC will have Kubiak working with the offence' which implies he is already set in stone as their OC (especially as you stated they blocked interviews for OC roles). Now suddenly everything is changed and he might be a QB coach and working in the front office.

Once again trying to discuss things with you isn't worth the hassle, I'm out.