The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

The_Honeybadger

A healthy Wentz is considerably better than Dak Prescott, no doubt about it. Cooper knows he is safe given what they gave up to get him so he doesn’t need to cause a fuss. Zeke is vulnerable imo, it’s simply not worth paying top dollar for a RB now, even one as good as him.

Looking at their dilemma over who to pay you’d have to say they have drafted and built the roster up well over the past few years.

Guffy

Lily Thoughtless Swimmer wrote: »

Went is more talented for sure but daks never missed a game and as they say availability is the best ability.

Dak will probably get something in the high 30s and the cowboys have some very hard decisions to make. Although with the way the cowboys have signed guys before he could end up getting more than 40 per

Daks stats are better across the board iirc, obviously he's played more games so should have higher counting stats but even percentage stats are better

Foxtrol

This is clearly a case of a team leaking info to make a player look bad. Even if you take it as true that he did turned down a $30m contract, we've no idea how it was structured and the guarantees.

On the comparison with Wentz, I'd agree Wentz is better when they're both on the field but Wentz' contract clearly takes into account his issues with availabiluty.

If Prescott was playing in a rinky-dink market not a jot of ink outside that city would be used talking about him.

Jerry Jones needs are thorough health evaluation for even offering 30 million.

Adamocovic

Always hear stories of Peterman performing in training and then you see his stats are actually good pre-season.

Counts for little but surely suggests the talent is there. Make you think the mental side of this is definitely his problem, just not able to step up the level. Wonder will he ever be able to put his horror start behind him.

https://twitter.com/Foolprooffball/status/1161020195655340032?s=09

Christy42

Adamocovic wrote: »

Always hear stories of Peterman performing in training and then you see his stats are actually good pre-season.

Counts for little but surely suggests the talent is there. Make you think the mental side of this is definitely his problem, just not able to step up the level. Wonder will he ever be able to put his horror start behind him.

https://twitter.com/Foolprooffball/status/1161020195655340032?s=09

Or he just runs really well against teams that haven't fully checked out his weaknesses and have gaps in their backfield from playing second tier players.

The_Honeybadger

Foxtrol wrote: »

This is clearly a case of a team leaking info to make a player look bad. Even if you take it as true that he did turned down a $30m contract, we've no idea how it was structured and the guarantees.

On the comparison with Wentz, I'd agree Wentz is better when they're both on the field but Wentz' contract clearly takes into account his issues with availabiluty.

That’s true, without details it’s pointless speculating.

If you put yourself in Dak’s shoes it makes a lot of sense to take a relatively team friendly deal this time and try to keep all your weapons around you. They are building a very good defence that will get plenty of stops and they were moving the ball well with Zeke and Cooper were there with him on offence.

The way QB’s are protected now Dak has at least another two contracts to look forward to, be it in Dallas or somewhere else, and he is in the best market imaginable to maximise off field income

Adamocovic

Christy42 wrote: »

Or he just runs really well against teams that haven't fully checked out his weaknesses and have gaps in their backfield from playing second tier players.

Obviously it's pre-season and that has effect but you'd have to imagine the mental side and dealing with the pressure is a big factor.

In training camp he always seems to impress, wins positional battles, wins over coaches and then gets out there and completely falls apart. A lot of his errors were mistakes and panic moments form him rather than brilliant plays from the other side of the ball. Despite sporting one of the worst state lines in QB history he still managed to earn 3 tryouts and land a new team after only a 1 month on from being released.

Even with pre-season being mainly second tier players, or 2nd gear he still has performed consistently well in his games before regular season starts. It's like a cycle nearly for him now. He's an odd one in my mind. Gruden is already loving him, and even before that first game was banging the Peterman drum. He had McDermott convinced too.

The man has shown enough talent and work rate to win battles against Tyrod Taylor, Josh Allen, AJ McCarron, TJ Yates, and now quite possibly Mike Glennon.
He's far from being a superstar but I think he's much more talented than his stateline shows, and honestly think it's a lot to do with the mentality side of the game and dealing with the step up. Gruden even mentioned it, saying how he's improved and is in the right mental state now....then again I think Bills said something similar too!

Realt Dearg Sec

Adamocovic wrote: »

and now quite possibly Mike Glennon.

Today I learned Mike Glennon still has a job somehow. Good for you Mike Glennon.

Foxtrol

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

That’s true, without details it’s pointless speculating.

If you put yourself in Dak’s shoes it makes a lot of sense to take a relatively team friendly deal this time and try to keep all your weapons around you. They are building a very good defence that will get plenty of stops and they were moving the ball well with Zeke and Cooper were there with him on offence.

The way QB’s are protected now Dak has at least another two contracts to look forward to, be it in Dallas or somewhere else, and he is in the best market imaginable to maximise off field income

Really depends on what you mean by team friendly. On a pure dollar basis so far in his career he has been ridiculously underpaid, with his earnings for 3 years as a starting QB being only totalled $2m. In comparison, Wentz has already earned 10 times that number, not even taking into account the new deal, and even a failed QB like Paxton Lynch has double Dak's career earnings, with a year less in the league and never becoming a starter. I can completely understand why Dak may feel annoyed by that and want to get his long overdue pay day, he's already done the 'team friendly' deal, now it is someone elses turn.

eagle eye

I'd love to see them throw Mike White into a couple of games in the fourth quarter. That would show Dak that they might just go without him and see how he reacts to it, they might even get lucky and find they have a better QB on their roster.

The_Honeybadger

Foxtrol wrote: »

Really depends on what you mean by team friendly. On a pure dollar basis so far in his career he has been ridiculously underpaid, with his earnings for 3 years as a starting QB being only totalled $2m. In comparison, Wentz has already earned 10 times that number, not even taking into account the new deal, and even a failed QB like Paxton Lynch has double Dak's career earnings, with a year less in the league and never becoming a starter. I can completely understand why Dak may feel annoyed by that and want to get his long overdue pay day, he's already done the 'team friendly' deal, now it is someone elses turn.

That’s very true but that’s purely down to where he was drafted. Don’t forget he makes millions each year being the face of Beats, AT & T and all sorts of other stuff. Paxton Lynch would be lucky to be asked to open a new Starbucks.

If they really are going to give him close to $ 30m a year then he will go from being one of the best value players in the league to possibly one of the worst at the stroke of a pen, ate bread is soon forgotten as they say. It’s a delicate situation with everything else going on around him. I’ll be interested to see how the Cowboys handle it.

Christy42

Adamocovic wrote: »

Obviously it's pre-season and that has effect but you'd have to imagine the mental side and dealing with the pressure is a big factor.

In training camp he always seems to impress, wins positional battles, wins over coaches and then gets out there and completely falls apart. A lot of his errors were mistakes and panic moments form him rather than brilliant plays from the other side of the ball. Despite sporting one of the worst state lines in QB history he still managed to earn 3 tryouts and land a new team after only a 1 month on from being released.

Even with pre-season being mainly second tier players, or 2nd gear he still has performed consistently well in his games before regular season starts. It's like a cycle nearly for him now. He's an odd one in my mind. Gruden is already loving him, and even before that first game was banging the Peterman drum. He had McDermott convinced too.

The man has shown enough talent and work rate to win battles against Tyrod Taylor, Josh Allen, AJ McCarron, TJ Yates, and now quite possibly Mike Glennon.
He's far from being a superstar but I think he's much more talented than his stateline shows, and honestly think it's a lot to do with the mentality side of the game and dealing with the step up. Gruden even mentioned it, saying how he's improved and is in the right mental state now....then again I think Bills said something similar too!

I didn't think it was brilliant plays from the defense. Players just did their job and Peterman couldn't deal with it at that level. Not that I could either. Maybe the extra time and space in practice/preseason suits him really well. Still won't make it on a pitch (but coaching and benching may suit him).

Beating Tyrod is a stretch. They benched Tyrod to prove a point and were forced to put him back on. They then dropped him over arguments as opposed to ever really believing Peterman was a better player. Tyrod has led NFL offenses to mediocrity.

Certainly the mental side has an effect but I am not sure he really ever got up to the speed of an actual NFL game.

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

I'd love to see them throw Mike White into a couple of games in the fourth quarter. That would show Dak that they might just go without him and see how he reacts to it, they might even get lucky and find they have a better QB on their roster.

White looked pretty bad against the 49ers 3rd/4th string guys at the weekend so I don't think Dak is too worried.

Foxtrol

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

That’s very true but that’s purely down to where he was drafted. Don’t forget he makes millions each year being the face of Beats, AT & T and all sorts of other stuff. Paxton Lynch would be lucky to be asked to open a new Starbucks.

If they really are going to give him close to $ 30m a year then he will go from being one of the best value players in the league to possibly one of the worst at the stroke of a pen, ate bread is soon forgotten as they say. It’s a delicate situation with everything else going on around him. I’ll be interested to see how the Cowboys handle it.

It is down to where he got drafted and the Cowboys have gotten a great deal because of it. Dak now has leverage due to his performances so it is completely unfair to turn around and say he should take one for the team, after taking it for the last 3 years. Around $30m is the going rate for a decent QB these days, if the Cowboys want to risk the draft they are free to do so but it is massive gamble for Jerry getting to see another Super Bowl challenge.

Dak will end up getting near the same money as Wentz. Cowboys released the $40m thing to a) make him look bad and b) make them not look bad when he doesn't get near $40m.

D9Male

Agree, it makes no sense for Dak to take a team friendly deal. He might get injured, or stink the place out in his next contract.

He is right to strike while the iron is hot.

Adamocovic

Christy42 wrote: »

I didn't think it was brilliant plays from the defense. Players just did their job and Peterman couldn't deal with it at that level. Not that I could either. Maybe the extra time and space in practice/preseason suits him really well. Still won't make it on a pitch (but coaching and benching may suit him).

Beating Tyrod is a stretch. They benched Tyrod to prove a point and were forced to put him back on. They then dropped him over arguments as opposed to ever really believing Peterman was a better player. Tyrod has led NFL offenses to mediocrity.

Certainly the mental side has an effect but I am not sure he really ever got up to the speed of an actual NFL game.

True, he has shown to struggle with quick/correct decision making when given the nod to play.

Maybe I attribute too much of that struggle to him not being calm or confident when playing rather than just not having the ability.

I do find it somewhat funny/interesting though in the trainings/pre-season he's ballin well, winning competitions and coaches over but then just struggles to make an impact in the real thing. It is sounding very much like it may happen to Gruden now and I wouldn't be surprised to see Peterman win the backup role.

Normally if you'd look at what he's done on the pitch you'd think he wouldn't have a job in the league!

Itssoeasy

So it’s been reported on espn that zeke Elliot won’t play this year without a new contract. I can see why the cowboys might be waiting because of the issues zeke seems to get himself into off the field, but if zeke wants to sit home then fine. I’m sure the eagles defense won’t be that cut up not having to plan for him twice this season.

eagle eye

Foxtrol wrote: »

White looked pretty bad against the 49ers 3rd/4th string guys at the weekend so I don't think Dak is too worried.

Preseason means nothing. You have to remember that he was also playing with 3rd/4th stringers as well.
Little history, a guy looked awful back in 2000 in preseason playing with the depth, his name was Tom Brady.
I'm not saying that White is the answer, just think he should be given a chance.
As for Prescott, I don't think he is worth the money they are offering him nevermind what he is looking for.

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

Preseason means nothing. You have to remember that he was also playing with 3rd/4th stringers as well.
Little history, a guy looked awful back in 2000 in preseason playing with the depth, his name was Tom Brady.
I'm not saying that White is the answer, just think he should be given a chance.
As for Prescott, I don't think he is worth the money they are offering him nevermind what he is looking for.

What does White have to do with Tom Brady

Preseason means far more than nothing for young players fighting for a spot. Failing in the first preseason game isn't the end of a guy's season/career, but you'd expect that a QB you believe can show the Cowboys they 'might do without' their starting QB for the last 3 seasons might stand out, or even show himself capable, when surrounded by 3rd/4th string players.

White might improve but from the chance he's gotten so far he doesn't deserve more. You talk about him possibly being a better player than Dak when he didn't even look like the 2nd best QB on the Cowboys team, probably 5th best on the field that day.

The_Honeybadger

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So it’s been reported on espn that zeke Elliot won’t play this year without a new contract. I can see why the cowboys might be waiting because of the issues zeke seems to get himself into off the field, but if zeke wants to sit home then fine. I’m sure the eagles defense won’t be that cut up not having to plan for him twice this season.

Pity if he does sit out, love watching that guy play he is so dynamic. Eagles will probably win the Division anyway unless they get a bad run of injuries but Dallas can make it interesting if they have everyone on the field.

I think he has to show up after week 10 or he won’t accrue a season and he will be back to square one next off season.

eagle eye

Foxtrol wrote: »

What does White have to do with Tom Brady

Preseason means far more than nothing for young players fighting for a spot. Failing in the first preseason game isn't the end of a guy's season/career, but you'd expect that a QB you believe can show the Cowboys they 'might do without' their starting QB for the last 3 seasons might stand out, or even show himself capable, when surrounded by 3rd/4th string players.

White might improve but from the chance he's gotten so far he doesn't deserve more. You talk about him possibly being a better player than Dak when he didn't even look like the 2nd best QB on the Cowboys team, probably 5th best on the field that day.

You seems little confused
Firstly Tom Brady was the 199th pick in the 2000 draft who was fighting for a roster spot and looked awful in preseason. The reason I use that example is to show that you cannot tell anything about a player based on a preseason game.

I never said that White was the answer and this isn't his rookie season either. I'm saying you'd never know but it wouldn't be hugely difficult to be better than Dak, imo he is a middle of the road average starting QB.

As for your suggestion that somebody should stand out playing with 3rd and 4th stringers I'll tell you that's it's extremely difficult for a QB more than any other position to look good with lesser players around him. The reasons for that are many and include awful pass protection and WR's running wrong routes and dropping balls.
It's much easier for a RB to look real good because most of these undrafted rookies will have done lots of run blocking on college.

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

You seems little confused
Firstly Tom Brady was the 199th pick in the 2000 draft who was fighting for a roster spot and looked awful in preseason. The reason I use that example is to show that you cannot tell anything about a player based on a preseason game.

The only thing I'm confused about is why you'd try to support your opinion with an example of a player that is clearly a complete outlier. For every Brady there are hundreds of examples of later round QBs that looked god awful in preseason and never improved to be NFL starter level, forget about the level of Brady or even Dak.

I never said that White was the answer and this isn't his rookie season either. I'm saying you'd never know but it wouldn't be hugely difficult to be better than Dak, imo he is a middle of the road average starting QB.

What you basically said was that White might be the answer, which I can see little to no evidence of aside from some online hype. I had to double take when I read your post after seeing him at the weekend.

As for your suggestion that somebody should stand out playing with 3rd and 4th stringers I'll tell you that's it's extremely difficult for a QB more than any other position to look good with lesser players around him. The reasons for that are many and include awful pass protection and WR's running wrong routes and dropping balls.
It's much easier for a RB to look real good because most of these undrafted rookies will have done lots of run blocking on college.

If you're saying the player might be better than a 3 year QB starter, that in that time led his team to 2 playoffs, won rookie of the year, and 2 pro bowls (no matter how little you rate them), then yes I expect him to stand out or at least look competent.

I'm not writing White off but saying he might be better than Dak is absolute nonsense at this point.

eagle eye

Foxtrol wrote: »

The only thing I'm confused about is why you'd try to support your opinion with an example of a player that is clearly a complete outlier. For every Brady there are hundreds of examples of later round QBs that looked god awful in preseason and never improved to be NFL starter level, forget about the level of Brady or even Dak.

It doesn't matter is what I'm telling you. The only preseason game you can take anything out of is the third one and it's only the starters in that game that matter.
My using Brady as an example is showing you that these games don't point anything out. Brady is the prime example of that.
Another more recent example would be Baker Mayfield who was poor in preseason last year.

Foxtrol wrote: »

What you basically said was that White might be the answer, which I can see little to no evidence of aside from some online hype. I had to double take when I read your post after seeing him at the weekend.

As I said the only way you'll ever know if he is good enough is if he plays with the starters.

Foxtrol wrote: »

If you're saying the player might be better than a 3 year QB starter, that in that time led his team to 2 playoffs, won rookie of the year, and 2 pro bowls (no matter how little you rate them), then yes I expect him to stand out or at least look competent.

I'm not writing White off but saying he might be better than Dak is absolute nonsense at this point.

Dak looked good his first year for sure but he has been very ordinary ever since.
I'm not saying that White is good enough either but I'd love to see him get reps with the firsts. I'm saying it'd make Dak think about things and I'm saying you could get lucky and have a better QB.

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

It doesn't matter is what I'm telling you. The only preseason game you can take anything out of is the third one and it's only the starters in that game that matter.
My using Brady as an example is showing you that these games don't point anything out. Brady is the prime example of that.
Another more recent example would be Baker Mayfield who was poor in preseason last year.

Pointing to Brady as an example is like saying you should quit your job and buy lottery tickets because a guy down the street won the lottery. Yes, Brady shows it can potentially happen but the 100s of failed late round QBs show it is incredibly unlikely. Brady is the exception to the rule and for a team to base their future on chasing that exception is crazy.

As I said the only way you'll ever know if he is good enough is if he plays with the starters.

Dak looked good his first year for sure but he has been very ordinary ever since.
I'm not saying that White is good enough either but I'd love to see him get reps with the firsts. I'm saying it'd make Dak think about things and I'm saying you could get lucky and have a better QB.

Last year the Cowboys had 10 games that were one score games and you're advocating dropping in a 3rd string QB into the 4th quarter in the regular season when he hasn't even thrown a TD in the 5 preseason games he's played?

Going by that logic, are you advocating that every team throw their 3rd string young QB in with their starters in regular season games? You appear to believe that teams should gamble that they 'might' be better than the their franchise QB and that there is no other way that the coaching staff can tell if that is the case other than playing in non preseason games with the starters.

eagle eye

Foxtrol wrote: »

Pointing to Brady as an example is like saying you should quit your job and buy lottery tickets because a guy down the street won the lottery. Yes, Brady shows it can potentially happen but the 100s of failed late round QBs show it is incredibly unlikely. Brady is the exception to the rule and for a team to base their future on chasing that exception is crazy.

I'm pointing out how bad Brady looked in preseason games. I'm not pointing out that he is the GOAT. I'm pointing out that even the GOAT looked bad in preseason games.
There are loads of great QB's who looked back in preseason. There are obviously loads who looked good in preseason and were crap. I'm telling you that you cannot base anything on preseason as regards QB's.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Last year the Cowboys had 10 games that were one score games and you're advocating dropping in a 3rd string QB into the 4th quarter in the regular season when he hasn't even thrown a TD in the 5 preseason games he's played?

I'm sure there are plenty of QB's who you know won't make it as a regular season QB but I think White might. I'm not saying he will but I think if you put him in like you are preparing to be without Dak then it serves two purposes. Firstly it shows Dak you are willing to gamble on going without him, as an aside other teams will question why you are doing it and maybe pull back on making a big offer to him.At the same time you get to see what White is like in a regular season game.

You seem to be of the opinion that I'm saying Mike White will make it which I have never said. You seem to be suggesting that I'm saying that Mike White is better than Dak which I'm not.

What I am saying is that I don't think that Dak is worth the money the Cowboys are offering, nevermind the money he seems to want.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Going by that logic, are you advocating that every team throw their 3rd string young QB in with their starters in regular season games? You appear to believe that teams should gamble that they 'might' be better than the their franchise QB and that there is no other way that the coaching staff can tell if that is the case other than playing in non preseason games with the starters.

I'm not advocating that every team throw in their backups. I never said that or even came close to suggesting it. There are certain backup QB's who I believe should get a shot somewhere, Mike White is one of those as is Sean Mannion who just signed as backup with the Vikings.

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm pointing out how bad Brady looked in preseason games. I'm not pointing out that he is the GOAT. I'm pointing out that even the GOAT looked bad in preseason games.
There are loads of great QB's who looked back in preseason. There are obviously loads who looked good in preseason and were crap. I'm telling you that you cannot base anything on preseason as regards QB's.

If Brady is not such an outlier, can you give me a list of QBs since he debuted of ones drafted in the 5th round or later that stunk up preseason and then became above average NFL starters, achieving more than Dak?

I'm sure there are plenty of QB's who you know won't make it as a regular season QB but I think White might. I'm not saying he will but I think if you put him in like you are preparing to be without Dak then it serves two purposes. Firstly it shows Dak you are willing to gamble on going without him, as an aside other teams will question why you are doing it and maybe pull back on making a big offer to him.At the same time you get to see what White is like in a regular season game.

You seem to be of the opinion that I'm saying Mike White will make it which I have never said. You seem to be suggesting that I'm saying that Mike White is better than Dak which I'm not.

You've clearly stated that you believe that he 'might' be better than Dak and have so far provided absolute no evidence to support this, aside from how you 'feel' and randomly pointing to Brady. To counter it, I've presented preseason performances and how his coaches have treated him.

What I am saying is that I don't think that Dak is worth the money the Cowboys are offering, nevermind the money he seems to want.

That's a completely seperate discussion to the utter madness of trying to get one up in negotiations through risking your season by throwing in a third string QB.

I'm not advocating that every team throw in their backups. I never said that or even came close to suggesting it. There are certain backup QB's who I believe should get a shot somewhere, Mike White is one of those as is Sean Mannion who just signed as backup with the Vikings.

But your logic is that White 'might' be better if he played with the starters, despite not showing anything special so far to indicate that he would. Why does that not hold for all QBs?

eagle eye

Foxtrol wrote: »

If Brady is not such an outlier, can you give me a list of QBs since he debuted of ones drafted in the 5th round or later that stunk up preseason and then became above average NFL starters, achieving more than Dak?

My point is that the GOAT looked awful in preseason, the position he was drafted in is not important in that context.

Foxtrol wrote: »

You've clearly stated that you believe that he 'might' be better than Dak and have so far provided absolute no evidence to support this, aside from how you 'feel' and randomly pointing to Brady. To counter it, I've presented preseason performances and how his coaches have treated him.

I said if they gave him a run out he might be better. I'm not stating that he is better but I'd fancy he might be good enough to be a solid starter.

I've said all along that you cannot judge a QB in preseason playing with a poor group around him.

Foxtrol wrote: »

That's a completely seperate discussion to the utter madness of trying to get one up in negotiations through risking your season by throwing in a third string QB.

I said throw him in in the fourth quarter, not for the whole game.

Foxtrol wrote: »

But your logic is that White 'might' be better if he played with the starters, despite not showing anything special so far to indicate that he would. Why does that not hold for all QBs?

The reason I mention White and Mannion is that they don't do stupid things. This is what I believe separates those who make it from those who don't. That of course is of the group of players who have a good arm, check down quickly, have good pocket presence and good footwork.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman

A conversation about Dak and his contract ... yeah lets talk about Brady being **** in preseason 20 years ago.

Ah football season.

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

My point is that the GOAT looked awful in preseason, the position he was drafted in is not important in that context.

So I take it you can't give me any other examples then... :rolleyes:

It has plenty of importance, teams put an enormous effort into drafting QBs and for a guy to fall to the 5th, like White, or 6th, like Brady, it is due to plenty of concerns about them. It is completely different for them to struggle in camp and preseason games than a number 1 pick, like Baker who you used as another example.

I said if they gave him a run out he might be better. I'm not stating that he is better but I'd fancy he might be good enough to be a solid starter.

I've said all along that you cannot judge a QB in preseason playing with a poor group around him.

You're saying he might be better than a former rookie of the year, 2 time pro bowler, 2 trips to the playoffs, still based on zero evidence aside from your feeling.

I said throw him in in the fourth quarter, not for the whole game.

The Cowboys had 10 games that they won by a point last year, Dak led them to 8-2 in those games, so it is crazy to throw a completely untested player into an anyway close regualr season game. There's a reason why teams rarely throw backup QBs in, even top tier ones, unless they have an unsurmountable lead, and at that point most of the other star players would be pulled anyway.

The reason I mention White and Mannion is that they don't do stupid things. This is what I believe separates those who make it from those who don't. That of course is of the group of players who have a good arm, check down quickly, have good pocket presence and good footwork.

What I saw last weekend and the rate he takes sacks playing him so far with the Cowboys (10 sacks playing 5 partial games) would put into question what your eye is telling you regarding his apparent quick check downs, pocket presence, and footwork.

Even completely discounting preseason, if he was as good as you believe he would be easily beating Rush to the QB2 role in camp or there would at least the Cowboys media onsite clamouring for that to happen, but White hasn't come close to that. After a quick check of a few Cowboys fan sites, White isn't even projected to make the 53 man roster on any of them, he looks to be more likely to be fighting to stay in the league than fighting to take a starting QB role from Dak or anyone else.

At this stage we're going around in circles, which I'm sure is boring everyone, so unless you have some additional evidence more than feelings to back up that insanely risky negotiation plan we should just leave this here.

eagle eye

Foxtrol wrote: »

At this stage we're going around in circles, which I'm sure is boring everyone, so unless you have some additional evidence more than feelings to back up that insanely risky negotiation plan we should just leave this here.

Yeah only thing I have to add is that it's pointless having a conversation with you when it's clear you just want to disagree all the time.

I was definitely done with this. You keep on trucking and disagreeing and making up stuff that the person you are arguing with never actually said.
And just to add, I won't be responding to you anymore.

brinty

Wow folks going at it about Dak... as the main cowboy on these pages I’ll say the $40m is a negotiation point, he’s not going to ask for less than the market he starts high Cowboys go low and they meet somewhere close to the middle. Basic negotiations

I’m involved in the UK Cowboys fan club and we discussed this on our weekly podcast this week with a member of the Cowboys media team. He says the deal will get done but it’s just a matter of the guaranteed money and he wants similar to Carson Wentz $107m guarantee seeing as they were in the same class, Daks missed no game time and was OROTY in 16 and has been QB for two divisional wins.

On the back up spot Rush and white haven’t really done much to differentiate themselves when given chances. they’ve had runs with starting o line in camp and done nothing to suggest either is good enough. We believed on the podcast one will be cut or traded as we’re not to going to carry three QB’s for this season.

Itssoeasy

It seems the Colts front office haven't been on the same page as to what is the issue limiting Andrew Luck this off season. It's now a high ankle sprain.

raze_them_all_

brinty wrote: »

Wow folks going at it about Dak... as the main cowboy on these pages I’ll say the $40m is a negotiation point, he’s not going to ask for less than the market he starts high Cowboys go low and they meet somewhere close to the middle. Basic negotiations

I’m involved in the UK Cowboys fan club and we discussed this on our weekly podcast this week with a member of the Cowboys media team. He says the deal will get done but it’s just a matter of the guaranteed money and he wants similar to Carson Wentz $107m guarantee seeing as they were in the same class, Daks missed no game time and was OROTY in 16 and has been QB for two divisional wins.

On the back up spot Rush and white haven’t really done much to differentiate themselves when given chances. they’ve had runs with starting o line in camp and done nothing to suggest either is good enough. We believed on the podcast one will be cut or traded as we’re not to going to carry three QB’s for this season.

We know how negotiations work. But he's not worth 30 million let alone the 35 he will probably look to get

raze_them_all_

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

We know how negotiations work. But he's not worth 30 million let alone the 35 he will probably look to get

He's next qb up. goffs not worth it either but he will likely get slightly more than dak

raze_them_all_

Lily Thoughtless Swimmer wrote: »

He's next qb up. goffs not worth it either but he will likely get slightly more than dak

Geoff been to a sb though. He has that. What does dak have?? I make us slightly less irrelelivant

The_Honeybadger

Lily Thoughtless Swimmer wrote: »

He's next qb up. goffs not worth it either but he will likely get slightly more than dak

Both are probably in that middle tier of QB’s behind Brady, Brees, Wilson, Luck, Mahomes and a couple of others.

They are good QB’s in the right setup but won’t elevate your franchise the way some of the guys above do. Is that worth $30m out of a circa $190m cap? I don’t think it is personally but it’s easy to say when you are not running a team.

Is the QB bubble likely to burst at some point?

raze_them_all_

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Both are probably in that middle tier of QB’s behind Brady, Brees, Wilson, Luck, Mahomes and a couple of others.

They are good QB’s in the right setup but won’t elevate your franchise the way some of the guys above do. Is that worth $30m out of a circa $190m cap? I don’t think it is personally but it’s easy to say when you are not running a team.

Is the QB bubble likely to burst at some point?

I reckon cap will raise to about 220 before it does. Qbs are important but eventually they will have to measure if that extra 10 million is worth all the sacks and not having someone to throw to

AbusesToilets

Itssoeasy wrote: »

It seems the Colts front office haven't been on the same page as to what is the issue limiting Andrew Luck this off season. It's now a high ankle sprain.

Is Brisset still with the Colts this year?

Foxtrol

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Both are probably in that middle tier of QB’s behind Brady, Brees, Wilson, Luck, Mahomes and a couple of others.

They are good QB’s in the right setup but won’t elevate your franchise the way some of the guys above do. Is that worth $30m out of a circa $190m cap? I don’t think it is personally but it’s easy to say when you are not running a team.

Is the QB bubble likely to burst at some point?

I don't think it will burst but QB supply is starting to catch up with demand. Nearly every team has a relatively functional QB at this stage, at least to the point where they aren't several teams that are QB or bust in the draft.

The only point where it may burst is when a few winning teams show that they can drop a Tier 2 QB, especially one at the end of their rookie contract, and continue their success through picking one up in the draft or as a cheaper FA. Few winning teams have had the balls to do that, as it is such a huge risk to the team if the guy you bring in performs worse, especially when the winning window for most teams is so small.

D9Male

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Is Brisset still with the Colts this year?

Yes. He is one of the better backup QB's in the league, in my view.

The_Honeybadger

Foxtrol wrote: »

I don't think it will burst but QB supply is starting to catch up with demand. Nearly every team has a relatively functional QB at this stage, at least to the point where they aren't several teams that are QB or bust in the draft.

The only point where it may burst is when a few winning teams show that they can drop a Tier 2 QB, especially one at the end of their rookie contract, and continue their success through picking one up in the draft or as a cheaper FA. Few winning teams have had the balls to do that, as it is such a huge risk to the team if the guy you bring in performs worse, especially when the winning window for most teams is so small.

I suppose the chiefs are a good example. They realised that Alex Smith was a good QB that will get you to 10-6 or 11-5 but you’ll probably end up one and done in the playoffs. They went out and got Mahomes and look set to really challenge now.

Of course Pat Mahomes was a spectacular success and you are just as likely to end up with Paxton Lynch or Brock Osweiler. It’s a huge gamble for a franchise with a serviceable QB to move on. You then have guys like Cousins and Garropolo setting the market and making it impossible to get value from a middle of the road guy. Tricky one for GM’s

Foxtrol

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

I suppose the chiefs are a good example. They realised that Alex Smith was a good QB that will get you to 10-6 or 11-5 but you’ll probably end up one and done in the playoffs. They went out and got Mahomes and look set to really challenge now.

Of course Pat Mahomes was a spectacular success and you are just as likely to end up with Paxton Lynch or Brock Osweiler. It’s a huge gamble for a franchise with a serviceable QB to move on. You then have guys like Cousins and Garropolo setting the market and making it impossible to get value from a middle of the road guy. Tricky one for GM’s

Chiefs would be the closest I can think of but they are still very different to the Cowboys or Rams. Even if you see Smith and Dak/Goff in the same tier, Smith was 34 when they moved on from him, meaning it was likely to start seeing him go down hill in the near furture and needing replacement anyway, which is very different to guys in their mid twenties, who have unlikely yet reached their peak and could play for another 10+ years. You're not only gambling that your replacement you find is good enough to keep your team winning, you're also gambling that the QB you're letting go is not going to improve further.

thomond2006

Derwin James injured in practice.

The Chargers are cursed.

Onecoolcookie

thomond2006 wrote: »

Derwin James injured in practice.

The Chargers are cursed.

Not even a Chargers fan but would love to see that team fulfill their potential, Rivers can't have too long left.

Itssoeasy

thomond2006 wrote: »

Derwin James injured in practice.

The Chargers are cursed.

Maybe the stadium in San Diego was built on a burial ground and by leaving they upset the mystical Balance and got cursed.

Itssoeasy

Adam schefter is reporting that the NFL are going to reinstate patriots WR Josh Gordon. Hopefully he’s in a good place and can show his obvious talent.

Edit: Ian rappaport is saying he’s “conditionally reinstated” from Sunday.

jack presley

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Adam schefter is reporting that the NFL are going to reinstate patriots WR Josh Gordon. Hopefully he’s in a good place and can show his obvious talent.

Edit: Ian rappaport is saying he’s “conditionally reinstated” from Sunday.

So how long before he’s banned again?

Itssoeasy

jack presley wrote: »

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Adam schefter is reporting that the NFL are going to reinstate patriots WR Josh Gordon. Hopefully he’s in a good place and can show his obvious talent.

Edit: Ian rappaport is saying he’s “conditionally reinstated” from Sunday.

So how long before he’s banned again?

Hopefully he isn’t banned again jack. I hope he shows the world how talented he is for the rest of his career and is never banned again.

The_Honeybadger

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Adam schefter is reporting that the NFL are going to reinstate patriots WR Josh Gordon. Hopefully he’s in a good place and can show his obvious talent.

Edit: Ian rappaport is saying he’s “conditionally reinstated” from Sunday.

Let’s hope his problems are behind him. He was actually pretty productive last season from what I remember too so this is good for the Pats