The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

jack presley

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Hopefully he isn’t banned again jack. I hope he shows the world how talented he is for the rest of his career and is never banned again.

Wasn’t the exact same thing said the last time?

Itssoeasy

jack presley wrote: »

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Hopefully he isn’t banned again jack. I hope he shows the world how talented he is for the rest of his career and is never banned again.

Wasn’t the exact same thing said the last time?

Yes it was but I’m saying I’m hopeful that the issues of the past are behind him.

Hazys

Josh Gordon has a serious drug abuse problem. Seeing how this abuse was enabled all through his high school and college years just because he was a star football player, this won’t go away over night. I can only imagine it takes years to get to a stable place and is unlikely to be resolved in a season or two with the Patriots.

I’m cautiously optimistic from a football fan perspective that he can contribute a full season to the patriots but it’s not guaranteed. But moreso I’ve been pulling for him as a person since I saw this documentary;

https://youtu.be/90YP4ntJUQs

Itssoeasy

Mike mayock and the raiders have called AB out because he’s not at camp over this stupid helmet issue. He really is a pain in the hole at this stage.

Itssoeasy

I hope the Raiders start fining Antonio Brown if he doesn't show up. He needs to grow up and stop acting like a child.

Blut2

Brown on Hard Knocks comes across as slightly.. not all there. Its pretty worrying, I wonder how many concussions hes gotten over the course of his high school, college, and professional careers.

The_Honeybadger

Blut2 wrote: »

Brown on Hard Knocks comes across as slightly.. not all there. Its pretty worrying, I wonder how many concussions hes gotten over the course of his high school, college, and professional careers.

They say bad AB really came to the fore after that vicious hit by Burfict in 2016 iirc. You could be on to something. Probably just a coincidence though.

I wonder would the raiders take their money back if they could?

Foxtrol

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

They say bad AB really came to the fore after that vicious hit by Burfict in 2016 iirc. You could be on to something. Probably just a coincidence though.

I wonder would the raiders take their money back if they could?

That hit was the same year he got paid. Could again be coincidence but if I had to chose which I'd say the extra money might have more to do with it

The_Honeybadger

Foxtrol wrote: »

That hit was the same year he got paid. Could again be coincidence but if I had to chose which I'd say the extra money might have more to do with it

More trouble than he is worth now. I thought his issues in Pittsburgh were to do with Ben but clearly there is a lot more going on

I suppose if he gets back on the field and plays at a high level this might be forgotten but I seriously doubt this is the end of his drama

me89

It's getting sad at this stage

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1163609434322558976?s=19

2smiggy

His first game in over a year, but Jimmy G did not look the best last night. I know it's only preseason ...

jack presley

2smiggy wrote: »

His first game in over a year, but Jimmy G did not look the best last night. I know it's only preseason ...

So a 0.0 passer rating isn’t good then?

Shedite27

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

I wonder would the raiders take their money back if they could?

Even losing the 3 and the 5, yeah I think they'd void the contract.

Is there any word on the options available to them? Presumably if AB is unwilling to play (which he is seen as he won't wear and approved helmet), then he's in breach of contract anyway?

Guffy

Shedite27 wrote: »

Even losing the 3 and the 5, yeah I think they'd void the contract.

Is there any word on the options available to them? Presumably if AB is unwilling to play (which he is seen as he won't wear and approved helmet), then he's in breach of contract anyway?

He is wearing the approved helmet, also contesting the nfls decision afaik.

Foxtrol

2smiggy wrote: »

His first game in over a year, but Jimmy G did not look the best last night. I know it's only preseason ...

He looked extremely panicked by the rush, which is somewhat understandable coming off that injury and facing Chubb and Miller.

Definitely concerning but not too worried yet.

Itssoeasy

A second grievance against the NFL by Antonio brown ? Christ, what has changed in the last couple of days ?

He's claiming that he should get a year grandfathering of his helmet for 2019. But the issue with that is all the league has to do is produce the notification they sent to the teams that had players who were in the same position as AB last off season, and AB will be told no again.

AbusesToilets

Foxtrol wrote: »

He looked extremely panicked by the rush, which is somewhat understandable coming off that injury and facing Chubb and Miller.

Definitely concerning but not too worried yet.

Season following an ACL injury are usually pretty poor. Brady in 2009 was fairly average.

AbusesToilets

Foxtrol wrote: »

He looked extremely panicked by the rush, which is somewhat understandable coming off that injury and facing Chubb and Miller.

Definitely concerning but not too worried yet.

Season following an ACL injury are usually pretty poor. Brady in 2009 was fairly average.

Foxtrol

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Season following an ACL injury are usually pretty poor. Brady in 2009 was fairly average.

Yeah, he doesn't have the earned rings that Brady had when he was coming back so Jimmy will get destroyed in the media and online. Hoping Shanahan will do his usual great job running the ball and getting guys wide open to hide it while he gets up to speed.

Big pressure on him though to improve during the year as the team can cut him for basically nothing in the offseason

eagle eye

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Season following an ACL injury are usually pretty poor. Brady in 2009 was fairly average.

Fairly average by his standards you mean?

helimachoptor

eagle eye wrote: »

Fairly average by his standards you mean?

Average is relative.. he didnt win a SB that year :pac:

Oat23

I had to stop half way to make sure I wasn't on the onion. Amazing.



https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2850382-chef-says-antonio-brown-38k-lawsuit-stemmed-from-salmon-head-left-in-freezer

2smiggy

a horses head you could understand :pac: , but a fish head ?!?

Itssoeasy

He's a disaster it seems. Very good football player but outside of that he's clearly let his fame go to his head.

Christy42

2smiggy wrote: »

a horses head you could understand :pac: , but a fish head ?!?

Sleeping with the fishes reference maybe?

He seems to have lost the plot a bit. Of course the Raiders will care little when he starts posting big numbers.

Oat23

Christy42 wrote: »

Sleeping with the fishes reference maybe?

He seems to have lost the plot a bit. Of course the Raiders will care little when he starts posting big numbers.

Will that satisfy him though? Look at the way he acted in Pittsburgh when they had a bad run at the end of the season. He flipped out after the Saints loss and was then suspended for the Bengals game because of it. He might be incredibly self-centred but he also wants to win, and I believe him when he says he doesn't 'need' football or the money.

The Raiders first 5 games are against the Broncos, Chiefs, Vikings, Colts and Bears. It could potentially get ugly for them real quick and who knows how Brown will react.

The_Honeybadger

Oat23 wrote: »

Will that satisfy him though? Look at the way he acted in Pittsburgh when they had a bad run at the end of the season. He flipped out after the Saints loss and was then suspended for the Bengals game because of it. He might be incredibly self-centred but he also wants to win, and I believe him when he says he doesn't 'need' football or the money.

The Raiders first 5 games are against the Broncos, Chiefs, Vikings, Colts and Bears. It could potentially get ugly for them real quick and who knows how Brown will react.

Does he even want to play football any more is probably a fair question? I’m not sure that he does tbh.

I’d agree that it could get really ugly if they are losing, especially if he is not putting up the numbers he is used to. He was spoilt in Pitt, often being the most targeted player in the league with a top 10 QB behind a top 5 Offensive Line for most of his time there. Very different setup in Oakland

raze_them_all_

I honestly think being traded to the raiders ended his career

eagle eye

Well he has everyone talking about him. Great player but this side of him really is a let down. If he does end up wearing the helmet and posting the numbers he has done in the past it'll be all forgotten about quickly.

Foxtrol

Jerry seems to be getting fierce annoyed with the Zeke situation. Looking forward to him completely losing it

jack presley

Foxtrol wrote: »

Jerry seems to be getting fierce annoyed with the Zeke situation. Looking forward to him completely losing it

I'm not the biggest Jerra fan to be clear but I heard on the radio yesterday that he paid Zeke's legal fees of around $2m when he was appealing his ban last season so I can understand him being pi$$ed off with him not showing up.

Foxtrol

jack presley wrote: »

I'm not the biggest Jerra fan to be clear but I heard on the radio yesterday that he paid Zeke's legal fees of around $2m when he was appealing his ban last season so I can understand him being pi$$ed off with him not showing up.

It isn't like Jerry was doing it out of the goodness of his heart, if Zeke got off he would be available to play for the Cowboys.

They're reaping what they sowed after how they treat Murray. They ran him into the ground on his rookie deal then offered him a terrible contract and he was never the same player again.

Zeke has to worry about a 5th year option and then the tag.

Jolly Red Giant

Foxtrol wrote: »

He looked extremely panicked by the rush, which is somewhat understandable coming off that injury and facing Chubb and Miller.

Definitely concerning but not too worried yet.

The Broncos defence is very good - so given the fact that he hasn't played in a year he will need time to knock the rust off. If he is still playing the same over the next two games then it would be time for the 49ers to worry.

AbusesToilets

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The Broncos defence is very good - so given the fact that he hasn't played in a year he will need time to knock the rust off. If he is still playing the same over the next two games then it would be time for the 49ers to worry.

I think that's a bit harsh. Took Brady most of the 2009 season to start getting back into a groove. Unfortunate timing for Jimmy all around. I wouldn't say this season is a write off by any means, but I think you'd have to factor in the reality of how long it usually takes to get back up to par from an ACL.

Foxtrol

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The Broncos defence is very good - so given the fact that he hasn't played in a year he will need time to knock the rust off. If he is still playing the same over the next two games then it would be time for the 49ers to worry.

Broncos defense looks even better this year with Fangio taking over but the team as a whole didn't seem to have too much depth after the starters.

The defence and Fangio had 2 training sessions against him to get a feel for him. I know they were non-contact for the QB but from all reports he did a lot better than the game. From watching the game it definitely seemed like the defense was a lot less vanilla than the offense which also didn't help. Lots of excuses but fingers crossed he improves as the season progresses.

eagle eye

It's preseason, it's unimportant. Time to judge him is week 1 of the regular season.

Christy42

Foxtrol wrote: »

It isn't like Jerry was doing it out of the goodness of his heart, if Zeke got off he would be available to play for the Cowboys.

They're reaping what they sowed after how they treat Murray. They ran him into the ground on his rookie deal then offered him a terrible contract and he was never the same player again.

Zeke has to worry about a 5th year option and then the tag.

It is obviously something the running backs are all worried about now. I mean will Saquon be the same player in 5-6 year's time either? He won't be part of a running back by committee during that so he will take a lot of hits.

Star running backs are looking at never getting a contract at their full value after about a decade of earning millions upon millions for others (including the college game).

RB is a devalued position these days but they should still get a shot at the free market within their playing time to get that value.

Foxtrol

Christy42 wrote: »

It is obviously something the running backs are all worried about now. I mean will Saquon be the same player in 5-6 year's time either? He won't be part of a running back by committee during that so he will take a lot of hits.

Star running backs are looking at never getting a contract at their full value after about a decade of earning millions upon millions for others (including the college game).

RB is a devalued position these days but they should still get a shot at the free market within their playing time to get that value.

Should be something they take on in CBA but unlikely.

More RBs that have any power will need to force contract negotiations earlier in their rookie deals, like Zeke. How Bell was treated shows it is too late to wait until you start getting tagged.

Foxtrol

Despite all his insanity, this is pretty funny

https://twitter.com/AB84/status/1164386461791264769

The_Honeybadger

Foxtrol wrote: »

Should be something they take on in CBA but unlikely.

More RBs that have any power will need to force contract negotiations earlier in their rookie deals, like Zeke. How Bell was treated shows it is too late to wait until you start getting tagged.

CBA won’t address anything by position, RB’s are almost receivers now as well in a lot of cases, that was partially the issue with Bell the Steelers did offer him nearly $14m per year but he wanted WR1 money which nobody was ever going to give him anyway with his injury and suspension record. Steelers dodged a bullet there tbh even though it probably cost them a playoff berth last year.

RB’s are definitely getting a raw deal though overall. Tbh if I was a GM id invest in the Offensive line first and foremost and try to get a good RB committee together with one good rookie and at least one bargain veteran. Even average backs can be very productive if the blocking is on point, look at C.J. Anderson last year. It’s easy to see how the situation came about, not sure what can be done about it tbh.

MileHighGuy

A couple of things have contributed to the situation, the new rookie payscale meant it was far better to build a team through the draft rather than free agency. A few top tier players benefit of course, but mid-tier players can be easily (and cheaply) replaced through the draft, freeing up even more cap space for the top top players.

RB position has always had a short shelf life anyway (with a few notable exceptions) with most backs seeing a precipitous decline in productivity after 30 birthday.....not long after coming off your rookie pay deal and a couple of franchise tags.

Finally, I think with the rise of advanced metrics it has revealed there just was not a lot of efficiency running the ball (with any back) in the modern NFL, and a few old truths were exposed i.e. a strong running game being an indicator of a winning football team.

That said, when all NFL defenses have been built to stop the passing game, some team will build it's offense around the running game, and off we go again.

MileHighGuy

...just to add...I thought someone had mentioned it earlier (can't find it now to quote) but it hits the nail on the head....

A good RB now needs to be a receiver really. Look at Bell, Kamara, Johnson, McCafferty ....these are the backs that can add that value to the passing game.



Edit...it was Honeybadger just above me that mentioned this.

The_Honeybadger

It’s a passing league without a doubt but the last couple of SB winners have had strong offensive lines and run heavy schemes. You don’t need superstars, just good capable RBs and crucially, guys that can block for them.That opens up play action and makes everything easier.

Foxtrol

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

CBA won’t address anything by position, RB’s are almost receivers now as well in a lot of cases, that was partially the issue with Bell the Steelers did offer him nearly $14m per year but he wanted WR1 money which nobody was ever going to give him anyway with his injury and suspension record. Steelers dodged a bullet there tbh even though it probably cost them a playoff berth last year.

RB’s are definitely getting a raw deal though overall. Tbh if I was a GM id invest in the Offensive line first and foremost and try to get a good RB committee together with one good rookie and at least one bargain veteran. Even average backs can be very productive if the blocking is on point, look at C.J. Anderson last year. It’s easy to see how the situation came about, not sure what can be done about it tbh.

Not to get completely bogged down again but Bell's biggest issue was the lack of guarantees he was offered. Numbers on the face without looking at guarantees mean very little, especially for a position like RB. Big thing to look at when it comes to leaks about what Zeke might be getting offered.

Christy42

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

CBA won’t address anything by position, RB’s are almost receivers now as well in a lot of cases, that was partially the issue with Bell the Steelers did offer him nearly $14m per year but he wanted WR1 money which nobody was ever going to give him anyway with his injury and suspension record. Steelers dodged a bullet there tbh even though it probably cost them a playoff berth last year.

RB’s are definitely getting a raw deal though overall. Tbh if I was a GM id invest in the Offensive line first and foremost and try to get a good RB committee together with one good rookie and at least one bargain veteran. Even average backs can be very productive if the blocking is on point, look at C.J. Anderson last year. It’s easy to see how the situation came about, not sure what can be done about it tbh.

If you get a good rookie RB they can be used as a workhorse and avoid the committee. Generally if an experienced player is asked to do that it will cost a lot of money but plenty of teams have realised that it is irrelevant what they want to use a rookie RB for, it will cost the same.

If you go more experienced then you go down the ability chain and get a few of them.

Itssoeasy

Just before 9pm on NFL network during one of those up to the minute updates, they reported that hall of fame QB John elway was diagnosed 15 years with a progressive issue that effects a persons hands.

The_Honeybadger

Christy42 wrote: »

If you get a good rookie RB they can be used as a workhorse and avoid the committee. Generally if an experienced player is asked to do that it will cost a lot of money but plenty of teams have realised that it is irrelevant what they want to use a rookie RB for, it will cost the same.

If you go more experienced then you go down the ability chain and get a few of them.

Yes I said one good rookie and 1-2 serviceable vets, divide the carries whatever way you want then. Either way, when was the last time a team won the SB with a top tier RB on a big contract? I think we both agree you don’t need one.

If the cowboys can afford Zeke they should pay him though. He is a game changer, they have done a tremendous job building that roster in fairness to JJ, they were a bit of a mess not that long ago

The_Honeybadger

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Yes I said one good rookie and 1-2 serviceable vets, divide the carries whatever way you want then. Either way, when was the last time a team won the SB with a top tier RB on a big contract? I think we both agree you don’t need one.

If the cowboys can afford Zeke they should pay him though. He is a game changer, they have done a tremendous job building that roster in fairness to JJ, they were a bit of a mess not that long ago

I think it's Stephen Jones that can build a team they have started drafting better since he got involved possibly easier to tell Jerry to cop on if he's your dad

MileHighGuy

An overview of which team has the toughest* road to the super bowl this year....

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/who-has-the-toughest-road-to-super-bowl-54-ranking-the-path-for-all-32-nfl-teams/

* as defined by a totally subjective formula invented by the writer.

I think it can be summed up thusly.....which divisions will be competitive and which will not, and that New England doesn't have to play themselves.

The TL,DR is Cleveland for the Super Bowl.

jack presley

https://twitter.com/cjzero/status/1165325048959438849