The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

eagle eye

The_Honeybadger wrote:

Fair enough. What else would he make an official complaint about?

The attempted attack and threats.

The_Honeybadger

eagle eye wrote: »

The attempted attack and threats.

I would consider that an internal team issue. When you said make an official complaint I thought you meant a tampering grievance but as pointed out the Raiders know they were guilty of doing the same and will probably leave it go.

Oat23

What a weird month for Vedvik. Looked solid for the Ravens so the Vikings give up a 5th for him. Looks terrible in the next 3 PS games and gets cut. Jets sign him off waivers last week and he was poor yesterday. Cut again.

Back to the Ravens to be rehabilitated and traded to a desperate team again next summer?

https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1171500422520901638

jack presley

The AB fallout continues

https://twitter.com/SNYtv/status/1171520412494090241

Realt Dearg Sec

jack presley wrote: »

The AB fallout continues

https://twitter.com/SNYtv/status/1171520412494090241

And this trade also means that BB has now made a trade with every team in the NFL. The Jets were the last one.

Looks a pretty sweet deal for the Jets

Foxtrol

jack presley wrote: »

The AB fallout continues

https://twitter.com/SNYtv/status/1171520412494090241

I would suspect he might be less than happy with this. Takes a team friendly deal and then likely did the team a favour by agreeing to be released and sign back up post 53 man roster moves, only to be traded 2 weeks later.

He likely would have gotten a much bigger payday if he just signed with the Jets as a FA. Taking a team friendly deal is always such a risk in this sport.

Hazys

I dunno how unhappy he’ll be, he’ll at least get some snaps which were going to be severely scarce now in NE

Playing trumps money when you are trying to get your career back on track

Foxtrol

Hazys wrote: »

I dunno how unhappy he’ll be, he’ll at least get some snaps which were going to be severely scarce now in NE

Playing trumps money when you are trying to get your career back on track

I'm sure from his perspective playing more, for a team he had a chance to choose, and for more money trumps what you're offering.

The Patriots treated him poorly but it is a business and what you risk when you make a deal with the devil :pac:

eagle eye

Every chance Thomas wanted the move after being designated inactive on Sunday. If you can't make the gameday squad and AB coming in next week then there's not much hope of you getting any playing time.

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

Every chance Thomas wanted the move after being designated inactive on Sunday. If you can't make the gameday squad and AB coming in next week then there's not much hope of you getting any playing time.

Then just cut the guy after he took a team friendly deal and did them a favour when they were trying to get down to 53. He could then choose where he wanted to go and likely get more money and/or longer term deal.

I get the business decision from the Patriots to get whatever they can for him, even as little as a 6th in 2 years time, but it doesn't make it any less of a crappy way to treat someone.

I'm fully aware that all teams do this sort of thing and it is why I rarely have any issue when players stand up for themselves against teams. Teams will throw them away or screw them over at nearly any opportunity they are provided.

Foxtrol

Lawsuit Accuses Antonio Brown of Rape: The Patriots receiver is accused of three incidents of sexual assault, in 2017 and 2018, against a woman who attended college with him

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/10/sports/football/antonio-brown-sexual-asssault-patriots.html

Patriots get their turn to deal with the circus

ScrubsfanChris

Foxtrol wrote: »

Lawsuit Accuses Antonio Brown of Rape: The Patriots receiver is accused of three incidents of sexual assault, in 2017 and 2018, against a woman who attended college with him

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/10/sports/football/antonio-brown-sexual-asssault-patriots.html

Patriots get their turn to deal with the circus

Why is this a personal lawsuit and not a public prosecution?
Not dismissing any of this, too sides and all that, but did police decide there wasnt enough evidence? (Now maybe she didn't even go to police, but that sounds a bit strange)

Timing is also very coincidental

Christy42

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Why is this a personal lawsuit and not a public prosecution?
Not dismissing any of this, too sides and all that, but did police decide there wasnt enough evidence? (Now maybe she didn't even go to police, but that sounds a bit strange)

Timing is also very coincidental

Is there likely to be any evidence either way? Unless there are some dodgy looking messages how are you going to show it was not consensual?

I imagine it is the lack of evidence which is a nature of the crime.

Again not saying he is guilty, more that I could see why she went down this route if she is telling the truth.

Giving her name seems risky though. Truth or not there are wackjobs that will take personal offense on behalf of Brown and take action.

bruschi

There is a strong argument to either rename this thread or start a whole new one "The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of Antonio Brown"

hots

Christy42 wrote: »

Is there likely to be any evidence either way? Unless there are some dodgy looking messages how are you going to show it was not consensual?

I imagine it is the lack of evidence which is a nature of the crime.

Again not saying he is guilty, more that I could see why she went down this route if she is telling the truth.

Giving her name seems risky though. Truth or not there are wackjobs that will take personal offense on behalf of Brown and take action.

There's definitely some of those anyway

Foxtrol

hots wrote: »

There's definitely some of those anyway

Those alleged emails are something, though I'm not quite sure what. If that's a flow of his thoughts, I'm not too surprised he gets in so much trouble.

Definitely questionable timing but for what it is worth she apparently passed a lie detector test.

Hazys

Foxtrol wrote: »

Those alleged emails are something, though I'm not quite sure what. If that's a flow of his thoughts, I'm not too surprised he gets in so much trouble.

Definitely questionable timing but for what it is worth she apparently passed a lie detector test.

With those emails an insanity plea would be a solid defense...i think i got brain damage trying to understand them.

Does anybody with some legal knowledge know how you can sue for rape and its not a criminal case? Seems very odd.

Foxtrol

Hazys wrote: »

With those emails an insanity plea would be a solid defense...i think i got brain damage trying to understand them.

Does anybody with some legal knowledge know how you can sue for rape and its not a criminal case? Seems very odd.

Those emails really highlight what a joke the educational requirements are for many college athletes.

A lower level of proof is required in civil cases, so more likely to get compensation for loss or a type of 'justice' in cases where there is a lack of evidence to meet the threshold to send a person to jail.

Something to note is that the accuser's main law firm is based in NY and has a very good reputation, which makes it unlikely they would take some completely frivolous case with no merit.

The_Honeybadger

I’m sure Robert Kraft will be able to advise AB on this

Hazys

Foxtrol wrote: »

Those emails really highlight what a joke the educational requirements are for many college athletes.

A lower level of proof is required in civil cases, so more likely to get compensation for loss or a type of 'justice' in cases where there is a lack of evidence to meet the threshold to send a person to jail.

Something to note is that the accuser's main law firm is based in NY and has a very good reputation, which makes it unlikely they would take some completely frivolous case with no merit.

I get what a civil case is if its not a criminal matter or post a criminal investigation but what I'm struggling with is how you can have a civil case without a preceding criminal case as its a criminal act. If there is no criminal case then there is 0 impartial evidence for a civil case to use and its a pure he said, she said scenario...unless i'm missing something? (unless they are hoping more victims come out because of this making it more than just he said, she said)

Foxtrol

Hazys wrote: »

I get what a civil case is if its not a criminal matter or post a criminal investigation but what I'm struggling with is how you can have a civil case without a preceding criminal case as its a criminal act. If there is no criminal case then there is 0 impartial evidence for a civil case to use and its a pure he said, she said scenario...unless i'm missing something? (unless they are hoping more victims come out because of this making it more than just he said, she said)

The allegations are acts with both has criminal and civil implications, you don't need to go through criminal to claim civil.

Why do you think there zero impartial evidence? Evidence doesn't become impartial because the police have looked at it and it has gone through a criminal case.

Prosecutors shouldn't take a case to court if they don't believe they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt, it doesn't mean a civil case can't find someone guilty within their standard of proof.

Hazys

Foxtrol wrote: »

The allegations are acts with both has criminal and civil implications, you don't need to go through criminal to claim civil.

Why do you think there zero impartial evidence? Evidence doesn't become impartial because the police have looked at it and it has gone through a criminal case.

Prosecutors shouldn't take a case to court if they don't believe they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt, it doesn't mean a civil case can't find someone guilty within their standard of proof.

No legal expert here (which is pretty obvious from these posts) but i would have presumed any evidence especially for a physical act would have to be analysed by the police to its validity. The only evidence from what i can tell is the emails in which for what i could make out was damning for Brown related to sexual assault but not rape. Suing for rape without a proceeding criminal investigation seemed unusual to me. I was trying to google similar cases but it didn't seem to turn up much similar cases.

I did come across that Jared Hayne was sued for rape in a civil case after a criminal investigation and he settled with the victim for $100k. I didn't realize that was probably the reason he quit the NFL and he fcuked off back to Australia before his acts became publicized and well known: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/115440844/nrl-jarryd-hayne-settles-us-rape-case-with-payment-of-almost-a100000

Foxtrol

Hazys wrote: »

No legal expert here (which is pretty obvious from these posts) but i would have presumed any evidence especially for a physical act would have to be analysed by the police to its validity. The only evidence from what i can tell is the emails in which for what i could make out was damning for Brown related to sexual assault but not rape. Suing for rape without a proceeding criminal investigation seemed unusual to me. I was trying to google similar cases but it didn't seem to turn up much similar cases.

I did come across that Jared Hayne was sued for rape in a civil case after a criminal investigation and he settled with the victim for $100k. I didn't realize that was probably the reason he quit the NFL and he fcuked off back to Australia before his acts became publicized and well known: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/115440844/nrl-jarryd-hayne-settles-us-rape-case-with-payment-of-almost-a100000

In cases where there is physical evidence of the crime, where someone goes to police/hospital straight after and gets examined, then that would be analyzed but even in those cases the defense can challenge the validity of it. No matter what the source, evidence is evidence and it rarely more or less 'impartial' in a criminal or civil case.

I'm also no legal expert but living in the States I've followed a few trials and it is quite different from Ireland. Going to the police for an investigation is the normal course and as far as I know at this point it is still not clear if she went to them. The police could also still open an investigation now or when more details come out.

Below is the initial complaint against Brown, which might not include all the evidence they have. If this doesn't get settled it will go to discovery and deposition, where more evidence could come up and AB will likely be forced to answer questions on it under oath. One things is certain, AB whether it was faking or real craziness, his actions over the last 2 years doesn't help him dealing with this case.

https://www.scribd.com/document/425324083/Antonio-Brown-Lawsuit#from_embed?campaign=SkimbitLtd&ad_group=126006X1587341Xcc330bcaf90b8c359c142d8576ccc328&keyword=660149026&source=hp_affiliate&medium=affiliate

D9Male

Ì have been closely following the NFL for 6 years.

It is incredible how much I have learned about the US legal system in that time.

Hill, Kraft, Deflategate, Lawsuit on PI, Kaepernick, CTE and now Antonio Brown.

The variety is breathtaking.

boccy23

D9Male wrote: »

Ì have been closely following the NFL for 6 years.

It is incredible how much I have learned about the US legal system in that time.

Hill, Kraft, Deflategate, Lawsuit on PI, Kaepernick, CTE and now Antonio Brown.

The variety is breathtaking.

Were you not around for the last CBA? Christ, that one dragged on and on through lower courts, higher courts, different state courts.........

Hazys

D9Male wrote: »

Ì have been closely following the NFL for 6 years.

It is incredible how much I have learned about the US legal system in that time.

Hill, Kraft, Deflategate, Lawsuit on PI, Kaepernick, CTE and now Antonio Brown.

The variety is breathtaking.

The crazy thing is how this doesn't happen so frequently in other sports leagues around the world. I presume its all just a by product of American society and its justice systems.

Foxtrol

Hazys wrote: »

The crazy thing is how this doesn't happen so frequently in other sports leagues around the world. I presume its all just a by product of American society and its justice systems.

Two of my recent favourites were the Saints fans that went all the way up to the Louisiana Supreme court alleging fraud against the NFL for the officiating mistake last year and the posturing that Brady was going to the US Supreme court for deflategate. Can't imagine any Irish fan or player taking that route in either circumstances.

j8wk2feszrnpao

CAS (Court of Arbitration for Sport) is used in many other sports, which avoids the need for courts (although it is a legal system), such as Chelsea going to CAS to get their ban overturned/reduced.

eagle eye

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

I’m sure Robert Kraft will be able to advise AB on this

On what? Sexual assault charges? I think you need to be more specific.

jack presley

https://twitter.com/samesfandiari/status/1171467311401725953?s=20

jack presley

Victim blaming (or alleged victim blaming in this case) is never right and that's not what I want to do here, but I am puzzled as to why anyone would go back to someone's house for some food after that person had previously masterbated behind them without them knowing and ejaculated on their back. Going back to their house would be the last thing I'd do.

The_Honeybadger

eagle eye wrote: »

On what? Sexual assault charges? I think you need to be more specific.

And you need to get a sense of humour

Christy42

jack presley wrote: »

Victim blaming (or alleged victim blaming in this case) is never right and that's not what I want to do here, but I am puzzled as to why anyone would go back to someone's house for some food after that person had previously masterbated behind them without them knowing and ejaculated on their back. Going back to their house would be the last thing I'd do.

People do dumb stuff. She is not on trial for going back to his house. Maybe she really thought he wouldn't do it again.

The main thing now is to find out if those messages really were him as that fairly well shuts down anything Brown says about the sexual assault.

Not sure if there is more messages about the rape accusation as what has been leaked so far seems to just reference sexual assault. Though that should be enough to see him in plenty of trouble as is.

He seems to be destined for the exempt list before week 2 right now.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Just read his two alleged emails; wish there was a Google Translate for it. He seems to be mocking the accusation (from what I can tell) of what he supposedly did the first time. The reply from his lawyer suggests that they have their own texts/emails as well to be released. There's probably a lot more information to come out. I kinda find it strange it's not a court case rather than a civil case.

phatkev

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Just read his two alleged emails; wish there was a Google Translate for it. He seems to be mocking the accusation (from what I can tell) of what he supposedly did the first time. The reply from his lawyer suggests that they have their own texts/emails as well to be released. There's probably a lot more information to come out. I kinda find it strange it's not a court case rather than a civil case.

https://twitter.com/bmagg86/status/1171615112861495296

The Good Ole Boys

What a bunch of cockamamie!

Itssoeasy

I don’t know if this was missed but another San Di... sorry Los Angeles chargers player is injured and out long term with I think the same injury JJ watt.

eagle eye

The_Honeybadger wrote:

And you need to get a sense of humour

I need to have a clue what you are saying before I can decide whether it's funny or not.

The Good Ole Boys

eagle eye wrote: »

I need to have a clue what you are saying before I can decide whether it's funny or not.

Oh, you know what he's saying. You know.

Itssoeasy

I can understand why bill belichick is getting annoyed over being asked about their newest signing as it's nothing the pats have done. It's their new signing who since he left the steelers seems to carry distraction with him.

The_Honeybadger

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I can understand why bill belichick is getting annoyed over being asked about their newest signing as it's nothing the pats have done. It's their new signing who since he left the steelers seems to carry distraction with him.

It’s very much up in the air whether he will play a down for the Pats now. I doubt they’d have signed him at all if they knew all this would come out.

NFL are apparently meeting this lady next week, unless AB buys her off in the meantime. If they do complete their investigation and believe she is telling the truth he is in for a lengthy suspension

Itssoeasy

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

It’s very much up in the air whether he will play a down for the Pats now. I doubt they’d have signed him at all if they knew all this would come out.

NFL are apparently meeting this lady next week, unless AB buys her off in the meantime. If they do complete their investigation and believe she is telling the truth he is in for a lengthy suspension

Well he was seen wearing a jersey with the number 1 on it. He's not been assigned a official jersey number yet which is apparently why he's wearing no 1.

The_Honeybadger

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well he was seen wearing a jersey with the number 1 on it. He's not been assigned a official jersey number yet which is apparently why he's wearing no 1.

84 is taken I believe so they’re probably trying to work it out. If he does get suspended will the Pats stick with him or just cut their losses?

I can’t see the NFL going easy on him given how in the space of one off season he has undermined the entire player contract and trade systems they have put in place.

Elliot got six games for much less, no conviction or civil case even.

Guffy

There is a video doing rounds of AB and the woman involved atm. It is apparently from around the same time that the 3 sexual assault alligations took place.


No idea if the allegations are true, but i would not be behaving like that around someone who i believed raped me.

The_Honeybadger

Guffy wrote: »

There is a video doing rounds of AB and the woman involved atm. It is apparently from around the same time that the 3 sexual assault alligations took place.


No idea if the allegations are true, but i would not be behaving like that around someone who i believed raped me.

She is saying that she left and cut all ties with him after the alleged rape so if the video is from before then it may not be relevant. There were apparently three major incidents, increasing in seriousness each time.

I have seen a lot of people ask why didn’t she leave the moment he started making advances but don’t forget she was economically dependent on him at the time and working with him was huge for her profile as a PT so it’s feasible that she decided to put up with his lewd behaviour for those reasons, until he went too far obviously. On the flip side, she may well be lying and just looking for money. It’s surprising that he hasn’t already paid her off tbh.

Foxtrol

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I can understand why bill belichick is getting annoyed over being asked about their newest signing as it's nothing the pats have done. It's their new signing who since he left the steelers seems to carry distraction with him.

I don't get your point at all. Unless you're saying that Bill didn't approve the team signing him, otherwise Bill doesn't have any right to be annoyed by questions. AB has dozens of public recent red flags for being a distraction yet the Patriots signed him anyway, it isn't like AB has just showed up to training and is refusing to leave.

Bill paid a for a circus to set up in his back garden and is now acting all grumpy because people are asking him questions about it. What did he expect?

Itssoeasy

Well jaysus if the Jets didn't have bad luck they'd have no luck at all it seems.

BizzyC

I'm holding off any judgments on the AB ordeal for the moment.

Seems very odd that she's going the civil route for what should be criminal charges, and if he was actually guilty you'd think he'd be paying her off asap to keep it quiet. She's clearly looking for money out of this, not criminal justice.

Having said that though, recent years have taught us that AB may actually be bat**** crazy...
Could just be that he thinks he can get away with it, and she'd prefer to expose him and get financial retribution rather than send him to jail....

The_Honeybadger

BizzyC wrote: »

I'm holding off any judgments on the AB ordeal for the moment.

Seems very odd that she's going the civil route for what should be criminal charges, and if he was actually guilty you'd think he'd be paying her off asap to keep it quiet. She's clearly looking for money out of this, not criminal justice.

Having said that though, recent years have taught us that AB may actually be bat**** crazy...
Could just be that he thinks he can get away with it, and she'd prefer to expose him and get financial retribution rather than send him to jail....

Only reason to go the civil route is money, and maybe the satisfaction of getting him suspended.

As already outlined the burden of proof in criminal court is much higher and it may be a very difficult one to get a conviction without physical or other evidence.

That Darnold illness is bad for the Jets. I didn’t know who the backup was until I looked it up, Trevor Siemian, not good.

MileHighGuy

I'd consider Siemian one of the better backups in the league, had a reasonable couple of years in Denver, I wouldn't want him as a full-time starter, but he should be solid for a few weeks if needed - it's not like Darnold was tearing the place up.

From Wiki:
On September 25, 2016, Siemian became the first quarterback in NFL history to throw 300 yards and complete 4 touchdowns with no interceptions in his first career road start in a 29–17 win over the Cincinnati Bengals. His 132.1 quarterback rating was the highest achieved in the league that week. He was named the AFC Offensive Player of the Week for his performance against the Bengals.

During Week 12 in a Sunday Night Football game against the Kansas City Chiefs, Siemian threw three touchdowns with no interceptions on 20-of-34 passing for 368 yards. Although the Broncos ultimately lost 30-27 in overtime, he achieved a quarterback rating of 125.6, the second best of his career to date when playing in the majority of a game.

From Weeks 8 to 14, Siemian was one of only three quarterbacks who averaged over 300 passing yards per game (the other two were Tom Brady and Kirk Cousins).By Week 16, he averaged 300.2 passing yards in his previous six games.

Although the Broncos finished the season with a 9–7 record and missed the playoffs, Siemian compiled an 18-10 touchdown-to-interception ratio and an 84.6 passer rating.

On January 23, 2017, Siemian was named as an alternate for the 2017 Pro Bowl, but declined the invitation due to recovery from left shoulder surgery two weeks prior