The Liam Miller memorial match and Rule 42

The Talking Bread

realitykeeper wrote: »

The GAA was built by people who would turn in their graves at the notion of soccer being played in GAA stadiums. The GAA players play for the love of the game and the revenue foregone by those players down through the generations built the GAA stadiums. It would arguably be a betrayal to those deceased players to allow the Miller game to be played in Pairc Ui Caoimh (precedent or no precedent). On the other hand, if it makes business sense then a business decision is possible provided the former point is dismissed for any reason.

Previous governments have given more in grants for the building of soccer stadiums than GAA stadiums because the revenue from soccer went to pay the players. Another way of looking at this is the government paid people to play soccer.

Those who recall the precarious finances of Cork city soccer club back around 2008/9 may remember a judgement in court effectively making the club insolvent. The next day, one of the players was on the radio and he went on at an awful rate about how passionate he and the team were about the club. I am not sure how the situation was resolved but I am fairly sure the players did not decide to play for free so I guess they are more passionate about money.

Should the GAA let the game be played? I would say in order to protect the GAA from vindictiveness, they should allow the game but they should divert the revenue earned to promoting the game internationally and not just among the diaspora. It should be promoted to other cultures as has been the case in parts of Africa.

This nonsense.

You can take it as a given that the attitudes, mindset, sense of perspective, respect and reconciliation has changed in 133 years and counting.

So turn in there graves if needs be.

Societies, attitudes, cultures, intelligence for the most part evolves.


So much stupidness in this post.

LeoB

Hitman3000 wrote: »

No bias on your part of course?

I think my post was balanced. He is entitled to agree or disagree.

The Talking Bread wrote: »

What has he to be bitter about??? Apart from the fact there is potential for raising money in a fundraiser in his former team mates honour which is being constrained by an archaic rule by the GAA.

45,000 stadium
v

7,000 stadium

Imagine the massive difference that could make??

And why is he in no position to criticise the GAA ?? Are you? Am I? Or is it just that his voice is louder than the average Joe on the street given his status so it will carry more public weight.

Damien Duff is perfectly entitled to give his pov and considering he played alongside Miller and is contributing to the event, he has a far more emotional investment in it than you for example? So if he feels fit to criticise the GAA, fair play to him.

What exactly, break it down, did you find wrong with what he said? I am interested?

It was an emotionally charged interview so you can excuse him for some of his choices of words but I agree with most of what he said and most of the country do also.
”

45,000 SEATER V 7,000 seater stadium and whos fault is that?
The whole tone of his interview was awful. With his ties to FAI and his punditry stints on RTE he have been more calculated in his comments so I would not be excusing him, even though he is entitled to his view. Just my POV and I dont get media trained or paid for them. He came across as bitter to me and other who heard him.
You know very little if anything about me or anything I have invested in this cause.

Hitman3000 wrote: »

His quotes....

Listen, even if they open the doors now and the game is played there (Páirc Uí Chaoimh), I still think they come out of it looking awful,”


“So it’s a lose-lose for them now, and it serves them right. It makes my blood boil. I can only imagine how everyone on the committee feels about it as well. An absolute disgrace, but [I'm] not really surprised.”

“I think it’s Gaelic people, and whoever makes the decisions, saying that it’s rule books and that they don’t have their AGMs until next February – it’s a load of crap,” added Duff.

It’s just dinosaurs making decisions. A young man has passed away who has left a young family behind, and all they are looking to do is play a game that will bring people together, firstly. A lovely occasion and will help Liam Miller’s family.
“I just find it disgraceful that they cannot open the gates of their stadium for one day. I think – I don’t know, I don’t read media or whatever – I’d like to think that is everyone’s feeling on it. But I find it a disgrace, and it is the same old dinosaurs in the GAA making the same old decisions.”

The same old dinosaurs gave us Croke park, PUC, Semple stadium, Pearse stadium........ Pity a few wouldnt go and put some shape on FAI.

I would say he well versed but sadly ill informed.

The particular line lose lose for GAA and serves the right is really like a spoilt child. This is not lose lose for GAA and they will come back stronger from it. If anything it shows up the FAI again. The GAA have their congress in February and that is how they do their business. It is nothing to do with him. If he wants to change things he should get himself lifted onto FAI council and change how they do their business and then maybe soccer supporters in LOI would not have to stand in sheds or PEE against a wall.

More are against this than we hear about because the Media have jumped on it and added fuel to the fire with the help of people like Duff.

Other points, Yes Iam entitled to have a go at GAA as I am a full member of GAA and former club officer for over 20 years. My club have better facilites than most LOI Clubs I like other members regularly have a go at decisions and rules and if I want can can start a process for changing them. I dont usually have a pop at FAI but it is hard not to when you hear some of the crap they spout. If I was a member of soccer club I would be embarrassed by them.

Duff also had a nice pop at ordinary GAA people who do great work in their communities and he has no right to do that. Im sure he was well paid for his stint during world cup. Most of us who help in our clubs do it for nothing and work hard to develop our facilities with help from Croke park. He knows fck all about how GAA works and his media training should have told him to engage his brain before his mouth. What have the FAI done with the millions they get from EUFA and FIFA over the years?

Anyway. Maybe you should read all my post and give it a little more thought. Apart from my dislike of Duff I was 50/50 on it

Weepsie

realitykeeper wrote: »

The GAA was built by people who would turn in their graves at the notion of soccer being played in GAA stadiums. The GAA players play for the love of the game and the revenue foregone by those players down through the generations built the GAA stadiums. It would arguably be a betrayal to those deceased players to allow the Miller game to be played in Pairc Ui Caoimh (precedent or no precedent). On the other hand, if it makes business sense then a business decision is possible provided the former point is dismissed for any reason.

.

Cork play games in the other stadium in the city that was originally a soccer stadium. Betrayal nothing.

markodaly

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yes, because a charity match to raise money for Cancer is about destroying Irishness.

Do you also hate minorities?

LeoB

Weepsie wrote: »

Cork play games in the other stadium in the city that was originally a soccer stadium. Betrayal nothing.

Is that Flower lodge? had the best surface in Ireland. So said 2 internationals I spoke to....

Weepsie

LeoB wrote: »

Is that Flower lodge? had the best surface in Ireland. So said 2 internationals I spoke to....

Yes I believe so. Mentioned a few pages back now.

Also, is international rules technically GAA? I don't consider it so,but they are talking about having the first test in PUC (the first ever one was there too).

markodaly

Tellyium wrote: »

The grant angle is a red herring, as someone said it’s at least a zero sum transaction for the government and there should be no strings attached.

In the GAA world of course. Meanwhile, in the real world where there are laws of the state, the money does come with strings attached, that you would open PUC in a transparent and non-discriminatory manner.

Them the rules my friend. As I said before, the GAA are not above the laws of the land. Your own opinion on the matter does invalidate this fact.

STB.

realitykeeper wrote: »

The GAA was built by people who would turn in their graves at the notion of soccer being played in GAA stadiums. The GAA players play for the love of the game and the revenue foregone by those players down through the generations built the GAA stadiums. It would arguably be a betrayal to those deceased players to allow the Miller game to be played in Pairc Ui Caoimh (precedent or no precedent). On the other hand, if it makes business sense then a business decision is possible provided the former point is dismissed for any reason.

Previous governments have given more in grants for the building of soccer stadiums than GAA stadiums because the revenue from soccer went to pay the players. Another way of looking at this is the government paid people to play soccer.

Those who recall the precarious finances of Cork city soccer club back around 2008/9 may remember a judgement in court effectively making the club insolvent. The next day, one of the players was on the radio and he went on at an awful rate about how passionate he and the team were about the club. I am not sure how the situation was resolved but I am fairly sure the players did not decide to play for free so I guess they are more passionate about money.

Should the GAA let the game be played? I would say in order to protect the GAA from vindictiveness, they should allow the game but they should divert the revenue earned to promoting the game internationally and not just among the diaspora. It should be promoted to other cultures as has been the case in parts of Africa.

I am just going to say if this is not satirical that you may need professional help.

In fact I may need professional help after reading it.

@brendan You spoke as we when agreeing with some chaps perspective.

I think you need to know you are in the minority not majority as regards your views here. The gaa players, commentators, fans and community think differently.

I was going to suggest closing the thread as it's now become disrespectful.

Tellyium

markodaly wrote: »

In the GAA world of course. Meanwhile, in the real world where there are laws of the state, the money does come with strings attached, that you would open PUC in a transparent and non-discriminatory manner.

Them the rules my friend. As I said before, the GAA are not above the laws of the land. Your own opinion on the matter does invalidate this fact.

I’m glad my opinion is so powerful.
So your learned opinion has it that the GAA have ceded complete control of PuC on receipt of grant aid? They got bad value for that grant then. So I take it that the same mechanism could be used to force open any grant aided grounds to other groups ? What happens if the request is for e.g. PuC on a date when County Championship marches are scheduled? GAA get told to piss off?
Methinks it’s not as cut and dried as your legal mind has it, m’learned chap.

lab man

nullzero wrote:

What an incredibly bitter post.

Not at all

dulpit

One thing I've noticed from this thread is that nobody seems to be debating the merits (or lack thereof) of the rule itself. I don't see the benefit of having such a rule really. It's not like removing the rule will mean the soccer clubs left, right and centre will automatically be using GAA fields, but removing it would remove an administrative burden for scenarios such as the current one.

Its only being given lip service as it is at a local level, loads of clubs allow other sports to use their facilities already...

feargale

dulpit wrote: »

One thing I've noticed from this thread is that nobody seems to be debating the merits (or lack thereof) of the rule itself. I don't see the benefit of having such a rule really. It's not like removing the rule will mean the soccer clubs left, right and centre will automatically be using GAA fields, but removing it would remove an administrative burden for scenarios such as the current one.

Its only being given lip service as it is at a local level, loads of clubs allow other sports to use their facilities already...

I think the root of the problem is that when the GAA passed their rule, as so often happens, inexcusably nobody foresaw or gave a thought to this state of affairs arising. If they had done so it is inconceivable that they would have opted to find themselves in the current situation.
I didn't hear Damien Duff's interview, but I read a short resume of it. I would have expected a more measured response from him. When you sre seeking a favour from your neighbour you don't browbeat him.

Okon

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I can’t believe the people of Cork would have not gained by the use of PUC as a RWC venue had the bid been successful,but seems to me they are now using this as a stick to beat the GAA.

A) No, we are using it as a stick to beat GAA HQ... as our own CB were happy to let the Liam Miller Testimonial go ahead at Páirc Uí Chaoimh. Nobody is beating Cork GAA with any stick. (We are GAA people, but like all good rebels we like to rebel against authority.)


That's the same GAA HQ who's main stadium Rule 42 doesn't apply to, bringing in cash for the coffers in Dublin... but no other GAA stadium in the country has the same privilege. As since the Rule 42 congress amendment the CC can decide what 'other' sports can be played at Croke Park, but Rule 42 has to apply rigidly elsewhere...


Yes, we (in Cork) would have gained from RWC matches at Páirc Uí Chaoimh, as would HQ. Maybe that's the issue? Rugby World Cup game = money for the GAA, no problem says HQ. Soccer game = money going to a Cork hospice, no way!


Rules can be bent if people have the willpower and the cause is worthy. I think this is such a case... HQ have got themselves in to a PR mess and no matter what happens now it all leaves a bad taste in the mouth.



We'd happily beat the FAI with a stick over it's mis-handling of Irish soccer through the ages too...

... and personally I would happily beat Damien Duff with a big stick as well. But we'll leave those issues for another thread.

pleas advice

What are the facilities like in Turners Cross anyway?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

pjohnson

Patww79 wrote: »

Yeah, that's what it meant. Try harder.

You clearly see it that way.

I mean you also think a charity fundraiser is part of a conspiracy to "destroy irishness"

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Fr Tod Umptious

dulpit wrote: »

One thing I've noticed from this thread is that nobody seems to be debating the merits (or lack thereof) of the rule itself. I don't see the benefit of having such a rule really. It's not like removing the rule will mean the soccer clubs left, right and centre will automatically be using GAA fields, but removing it would remove an administrative burden for scenarios such as the current one.

Its only being given lip service as it is at a local level, loads of clubs allow other sports to use their facilities already...

Plenty here has said that the rule needs to be ammended and admit that it is too stringent.

But the concern for the GAA, and it's a vaild one, is the FAI.
The FAI have proven decade after decade to be the most incompetent sports body in the land.

There is gunine mistrust of the FAI from the GAA, and any carte blanche access to GAA facilities for the FAI is a concern.

The Talking Bread

The Talking Bread wrote: »

What exactly, break it down, did you find wrong with what he said? I am interested?

It was an emotionally charged interview so you can excuse him for some of his choices of words but I agree with most of what he said and most of the country do also.

His quotes....

Listen, even if they open the doors now and the game is played there (Páirc Uí Chaoimh), I still think they come out of it looking awful,”


“So it’s a lose-lose for them now, and it serves them right. It makes my blood boil. I can only imagine how everyone on the committee feels about it as well. An absolute disgrace, but [I'm] not really surprised.”

“I think it’s Gaelic people, and whoever makes the decisions, saying that it’s rule books and that they don’t have their AGMs until next February – it’s a load of crap,” added Duff.

It’s just dinosaurs making decisions. A young man has passed away who has left a young family behind, and all they are looking to do is play a game that will bring people together, firstly. A lovely occasion and will help Liam Miller’s family.
“I just find it disgraceful that they cannot open the gates of their stadium for one day. I think – I don’t know, I don’t read media or whatever – I’d like to think that is everyone’s feeling on it. But I find it a disgrace, and it is the same old dinosaurs in the GAA making the same old decisions.”

Jackie Tyrell echoed the lose lose point on Newstalk's Off the Ball last night.

The presenters made pretty much the same point as you, while Duff's language was strong, he played alongside Miller and is understandably emotional. He called GAA leaders "dinosaurs"? I'd say John Delaney has been called a lot worse, by posters now getting all teary eyed and sensitive about Duff's language.

Brendan Bendar

Lads I don’t understand the surprise at people like Duffs attitude,or the politicians attitude,or Brollys attitude and indeed anyone on the Irish media.

None of them have the balls to look at the situation from the GAAs point of view which is valid,and deserves to be put forward.Theres two sides to every controversy.

Why?

Scared schidtless their ‘popularity’ will dip as a result of looking at a problem from both sides.

I have zero respect for that stupid input particularly from Duff and just a little less for the lilylivered populist politicians and media pundits who just play the populist card and take no account of the other sides point of view.


If you are going to comment on an issue at least give an objective view and don’t put your two feet into it like Duff has done.

Incredibly stupid and hardly worthy of proper comment in my opinion.

Bridge93

Ok ignore the reaction of the GAA pundits. And ex players. And GPA. Theyre all compromised. What about the outcry on twitter from current players? Have no need to say anything yet theyve taken to social media to voice their disgust at the decision
The overwhelming sense from grassroots members is that its wrong too.

Brendan Bendar

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Lads I don’t understand the surprise at people like Duffs attitude,or the politicians attitude,or Brollys attitude and indeed anyone on the Irish media.

None of them have the balls to look at the situation from the GAAs point of view which is valid,and deserves to be put forward.Theres two sides to every controversy.

Why?

Scared schidtless their ‘popularity’ will dip as a result of looking at a problem from both sides.

I have zero respect for that stupid input particularly from Duff and just a little less for the lilylivered populist politicians and media pundits who just play the populist card and take no account of the other sides point of view.

If you are going to comment on an issue at least give an objective view and don’t put your two feet into it like Duff has done.

Incredibly stupid and hardly worthy of proper comment in my opinion.

But haven't you done the exact same thing?

Rather than taking on board the core of his point, stripped of strong language, you have called him "despicable, bitter and cretinous" and used strong language yourself.

Do you think your view, or indeed anyone's, is objective? Why should it be? He played alongside Liam Miller, I think it perfectly understandable why his language would be strong. As I said above, strong language is used about Delaney and the FAI and no one gets too precious.

Brendan Bendar

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Terrific post, my friend, well thought out.

Totally agree with the Duff criticism, despicable ,bitter and cretinous input.

No time for the guy after that.

Deleted User wrote: »

But haven't you done the exact same thing?

Rather than taking on board the core of his point, stripped of strong language, you have called him "despicable, bitter and cretinous" and used strong language yourself.

Do you think your view, or indeed anyone's, is objective? Why should it be? He played alongside Liam Miller, I think it perfectly understandable why his language would be strong. As I said above, strong language is used about Delaney and the FAI and no one gets too precious.

You are at it again.

I said the input was despicable ,bitter and cretinous

I shouldn’t need to be constantly correcting you Conor.

0127647

markodaly wrote: »

Yes, because a charity match to raise money for Cancer is about destroying Irishness.

Do you also hate minorities?

Is the match raising money for charity or his family? I'm perplexed why a guys family where he earned 25k per week at Utd and played for other top British football clubs , received money from Scott Browns Testimonial and is having a 4k per table dinner in city hall after the match are in such dire need of fund raising.

Plenty of Joes up and down the country will get terminal diagnosis and would earn less in a year than Miller earned in a week.

Brendan Bendar

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

You are at it again.

I said the input was despicable ,bitter and cretinous

I shouldn’t need to be constantly correcting you Conor.

You're kinda dancing on the head of a pin there.

You went on to say "no time for the guy" in the very next sentence, so you have no issue blurring the distinction you now stand on yourself.

Either way, you have simply avoided the point. You use strong language yourself and defend the GAA, as you are perfectly entitled to do...it just undermines your objection that others use strong language and lack objectivity.

dulpit

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But the concern for the GAA, and it's a vaild one, is the FAI.
The FAI have proven decade after decade to be the most incompetent sports body in the land.

There is gunine mistrust of the FAI from the GAA, and any carte blanche access to GAA facilities for the FAI is a concern.

Why though? Removing rule 42 would not oblige the GAA to give their stadia to FAI whenever they (FAI) want. It just means that if a scenario were to arise, they could rent it out.

The big GAA stadiums are empty more than they are used, I don't see why it doesn't make sense to rent them out from time to time...

Brendan Bendar

Deleted User wrote: »

You're kinda dancing on the head of a pin there.

You went on to say "no time for the guy" in the very next sentence, so you have no issue blurring the distinction you now stand on yourself.

Either way, you have simply avoided the point. You use strong language yourself and defend the GAA, as you are perfectly entitled to do...it just undermines your objection that others use strong language and lack objectivity.

Conor, the language I used here is tame, far tamer than a lot of posts,now like a good man, let the bone drop and let’s get on with the debate, before the mods have to intervene.

Dublin Spur

its embarrassing that we have such issues in a country of our modest size and population

Fr Tod Umptious

dulpit wrote: »

Why though? Removing rule 42 would not oblige the GAA to give their stadia to FAI whenever they (FAI) want. It just means that if a scenario were to arise, they could rent it out.

The big GAA stadiums are empty more than they are used, I don't see why it doesn't make sense to rent them out from time to time...

So for example the Cork minor hurling final takes place in PUC on a Thursday night in August.

It attracts a crowd or a couple of thousand at best but it gives young lads the chance to play for their club on the big stage in the big stadium, it's a big deal for them.

But hold on, Cork City have been drawn against Celtic in the Europa League.
UEFA have scheduled it for the same night.
It will attract a full house of 7k in Turner's Cross cos it's Celtic.
Move it to PUC and it will attract 40k, bumper pay day for cash strapped Cork City, LOI and FAI.

Sorry minors, move aside, more important soccer match coming through.

If the FAI had easy access to GAA facilities, facilities build mainly thanks to the hard work of GAA volunteers up and down the country, then they would not put another cent into their own infrastructure.

martingriff

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Plenty here has said that the rule needs to be ammended and admit that it is too stringent.

But the concern for the GAA, and it's a vaild one, is the FAI.
The FAI have proven decade after decade to be the most incompetent sports body in the land.

There is gunine mistrust of the FAI from the GAA, and any carte blanche access to GAA facilities for the FAI is a concern.

I don't see why changing or removing the rule would give a carte Blanche to the FAI. There still the GAA pitches. You think the big bad FAI will push ye around. How about the IRFU or any other organisations.

martingriff

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So for example the Cork minor hurling final takes place in PUC on a Thursday night in August.

It attracts a crowd or a couple of thousand at best but it gives young lads the chance to play for their club on the big stage in the big stadium, it's a big deal for them.

But hold on, Cork City have been drawn against Celtic in the Europa League.
UEFA have scheduled it for the same night.
It will attract a full house of 7k in Turner's Cross cos it's Celtic.
Move it to PUC and it will attract 40k, bumper pay day for cash strapped Cork City, LOI and FAI.

Sorry minors, move aside, more important soccer match coming through.

If the FAI had easy access to GAA facilities, facilities build mainly thanks to the hard work of GAA volunteers up and down the country, then they would not put another cent into their own infrastructure.

In you example there it's not the FAI you should have fault with its the money men and those who made the decision in the GAA

Fr Tod Umptious

martingriff wrote: »

In you example there it's not the FAI you should have fault with its the money men and those who made the decision in the GAA

So if the GAA don't open their ground then they are called dinosaurs and everyone is jumping up and down about public money etc

If they do open their ground and allow the example I gave then they are money grabbers

And if they do open their ground and deny the ground to Cork v Celtic in favour of the minors, then they will be called something else.

I'm all of the ammendemnt of the erule to allow individual circumstances be easier allowed or denied.

dulpit

martingriff wrote: »

In you example there it's not the FAI you should have fault with its the money men and those who made the decision in the GAA

This.

You missed my point, where would removing rule 42 oblige the GAA to give up their pitches at the request of FAI/IRFU/etc?

Sweet.Science

The GAA is just not equipped to deal with something that happens so quick.

Sure they were only approached a few days ago about it and it social media went mad.

Its not a dictatorship. One man cant just say yes and hand the keys over to the charity arranging the game . It needs to go through the right channels and can take a bit of time.

Their media release was ill advised . But i do think the game was always going to be played in PUC it would just take a few weeks to be confirmed .

Its a very emotional thing for Damien Duff so can excuse him for him comments.

Fr Tod Umptious

dulpit wrote: »

This.

You missed my point, where would removing rule 42 oblige the GAA to give up their pitches at the request of FAI/IRFU/etc?

It would not oblige them

But we would have a s**t storm like we have now about the GAA being stuck in the past, taking public funds, etc etc if a soccer/rugby event could not take place in a GAA stadium because a relatively low key GAA event was happening there already

Brendan Bendar

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So for example the Cork minor hurling final takes place in PUC on a Thursday night in August.

It attracts a crowd or a couple of thousand at best but it gives young lads the chance to play for their club on the big stage in the big stadium, it's a big deal for them.

But hold on, Cork City have been drawn against Celtic in the Europa League.
UEFA have scheduled it for the same night.
It will attract a full house of 7k in Turner's Cross cos it's Celtic.
Move it to PUC and it will attract 40k, bumper pay day for cash strapped Cork City, LOI and FAI.

Sorry minors, move aside, more important soccer match coming through.

If the FAI had easy access to GAA facilities, facilities build mainly thanks to the hard work of GAA volunteers up and down the country, then they would not put another cent into their own infrastructure.

Todd how is it that only you and I can see the big picture.

The Gaa are in competition with other mainly field games like soccer and Rugby.

Not competition between local mentors or small stuff but for the hearts and minds of youngsters growing up.On a corporate level if you like
The GAA is basically confined to Ireland,with little or no following outside this small island.

Soccer and Rugby are part of world wide huge organizations with footfall via television in almost country. Their power for exposure is immense and they use it.

The GAA knows full well that their trump card to survive, not lord it over people,to survive,is their facilities.

That’s why they guard them so preciously and they are right in my opinion.

If the GAA were to relax their advantage then they are on the slippery slope.

Not overnight, not in ten years, but mark my words it would happen,given the world wide exposure and payment to players and huge resources,the other sports ‘enjoy’.

The GAA know that Dublin is the key,they are not fools, if they lose the hearts and minds of the youngsters, if playing hurling football camogie become ‘uncool’ not sexy, then it’s not a good scenario,and the GAA in Dublin as it was not so long ago will just attract the diehards.If the youngsters don’t want to wear the Dublin jersey or countrywide people are ashamed to wear their county jersey then the Gaa are going to struggle.

That’s what the competition is about my friends, not Rory letting the local soccer lads play on the GAA pitch or visa versa.

The Lost Sheep

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Todd how is it that only you and I can see the big picture.

The Gaa are in competition with other mainly field games like soccer and Rugby.

Not competition between local mentors or small stuff but for the hearts and minds of youngsters growing up.On a corporate level if you like
The GAA is basically confined to Ireland,with little or no following outside this small island.

Soccer and Rugby are part of world wide huge organizations with footfall via television in almost country. Their power for exposure is immense and they use it.

The GAA knows full well that their trump card to survive, not lord it over people,to survive,is their facilities.

That’s why they guard them so preciously and they are right in my opinion.

If the GAA were to relax their advantage then they are on the slippery slope.

Not overnight, not in ten years, but mark my words it would happen,given the world wide exposure and payment to players and huge resources,the other sports ‘enjoy’.

The GAA know that Dublin is the key,they are not fools, if they lose the hearts and minds of the youngsters, if playing hurling football camogie become ‘uncool’ not sexy, then it’s not a good scenario,and the GAA in Dublin as it was not so long ago will just attract the diehards.If the youngsters don’t want to wear the Dublin jersey or countrywide people are ashamed to wear their county jersey then the Gaa are going to struggle.

That’s what the competition is about my friends, not Rory letting the local soccer lads play on the GAA pitch or visa versa.

You are not seeing the bigger picture though yourself and todd are seeing a bitterly twisted narrow minded angle of the scene.
Yes the GAA is in competition with other sports but that doesnt mean they cant work together in most places. Just look at Donnybrook. Home of Leinster Rugby. As "rugby as you can get" with it home of schools rugby in Leinster, spiritual home of rugby in the province etc etc and yet there is a local GAA club using Donnybrook as a training facility.
https://extra.ie/2018/07/24/sport/gaa/leinster-rugby-shows-gaa

This cliched nonsense about hearts and minds. Kids should be playing as much as possible and we should be facilitating that. Not hampering it

martingriff

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So if the GAA don't open their ground then they are called dinosaurs and everyone is jumping up and down about public money etc

If they do open their ground and allow the example I gave then they are money grabbers

And if they do open their ground and deny the ground to Cork v Celtic in favour of the minors, then they will be called something else.

I'm all of the ammendemnt of the erule to allow individual circumstances be easier allowed or denied.

No if they stop a game been played in favour of another then yes they are money grabbers. Opening it up does not mean that they have to allow other whenever they demand it. I do not think anyone is saying that and I certainly didn't.

Sweet.Science

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Todd how is it that only you and I can see the big picture.

The Gaa are in competition with other mainly field games like soccer and Rugby.

Not competition between local mentors or small stuff but for the hearts and minds of youngsters growing up.On a corporate level if you like
The GAA is basically confined to Ireland,with little or no following outside this small island.

Soccer and Rugby are part of world wide huge organizations with footfall via television in almost country. Their power for exposure is immense and they use it.

The GAA knows full well that their trump card to survive, not lord it over people,to survive,is their facilities.

That’s why they guard them so preciously and they are right in my opinion.

If the GAA were to relax their advantage then they are on the slippery slope.

Not overnight, not in ten years, but mark my words it would happen,given the world wide exposure and payment to players and huge resources,the other sports ‘enjoy’.

The GAA know that Dublin is the key,they are not fools, if they lose the hearts and minds of the youngsters, if playing hurling football camogie become ‘uncool’ not sexy, then it’s not a good scenario,and the GAA in Dublin as it was not so long ago will just attract the diehards.If the youngsters don’t want to wear the Dublin jersey or countrywide people are ashamed to wear their county jersey then the Gaa are going to struggle.

That’s what the competition is about my friends, not Rory letting the local soccer lads play on the GAA pitch or visa versa.

I dont agree that Croke Park, PUC etc are the trump card . There is much more to the GAA than state of the art stadiums . Community / Fundraising / Looking after people in need

Thats why i hope the game goes ahead in PUC - although it doesnt happen overnight

Fr Tod Umptious

martingriff wrote: »

No if they stop a game been played in favour of another then yes they are money grabbers. Opening it up does not mean that they have to allow other whenever they demand it. I do not think anyone is saying that and I certainly didn't.

But once again consider my example.

Cork minor hurling final in PUC with attendance of 871 versus Cork City v Celtic at Turner's Cross with capacity limited to 7k (could be less depending on UEFA rules).

In a world where GAA grounds can be used for other sports agreed at local level what happens in this case.

Do the GAA reschedule or relocate the minor hurling final to fill the ground with the soccer game and take the finincial benefits.

Or do they say no to the soccer game because this is the biggest event in the sporting lives of 60 odd teenage boys, their coaches and their families.

If they take the first option they are accused of being all about the money.

If they take the second option they are accused of wasting public funds and denying sports fans the abity to watch a high level game.

Brendan Bendar

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You are not seeing the bigger picture though yourself and todd are seeing a bitterly twisted narrow minded angle of the scene.
Yes the GAA is in competition with other sports but that doesnt mean they cant work together in most places. Just look at Donnybrook. Home of Leinster Rugby. As "rugby as you can get" with it home of schools rugby in Leinster, spiritual home of rugby in the province etc etc and yet there is a local GAA club using Donnybrook as a training facility.
https://extra.ie/2018/07/24/sport/gaa/leinster-rugby-shows-gaa

This cliched nonsense about hearts and minds. Kids should be playing as much as possible and we should be facilitating that. Not hampering it

I’m afraid you don’t see the big picture, but of course that’s your prerogative.

martingriff

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But once again consider my example.

Cork minor hurling final in PUC with attendance of 871 versus Cork City v Celtic at Turner's Cross with capacity limited to 7k (could be less depending on UEFA rules).

In a world where GAA grounds can be used for other sports agreed at local level what happens in this case.

Do the GAA reschedule or relocate the minor hurling final to fill the ground with the soccer game and take the finincial benefits.

Or do they say no to the soccer game because this is the biggest event in the sporting lives of 60 odd teenage boys, their coaches and their families.

If they take the first option they are accused of being all about the money.

If they take the second option they are accused of wasting public funds and denying sports fans the abity to watch a high level game.

Why would you be assured they be accused by the majority in the second option. I feel they be commended to saying sorry no it is in use that night by a lot of people I be one such person. Would there be a tiny minority who would yes but you get that anyway.

The reason people are so up in arms which you and Brendan Bendar are missing is the outright no. They don't want you to bow down to the "big bad games" whenever it's you consider if an approach is made.

Brendan Bendar

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

The GAA know that Dublin is the key,they are not fools, if they lose the hearts and minds of the youngsters, if playing hurling football camogie become ‘uncool’ not sexy, then it’s not a good scenario,and the GAA in Dublin as it was not so long ago will just attract the diehards.If the youngsters don’t want to wear the Dublin jersey or countrywide people are ashamed to wear their county jersey then the Gaa are going to struggle.

The battle for hearts and minds?

Let's leave the US strategy in Vietnam back in the 60s!

This whole idea drew a laugh from the pundits on Off the Ball last night, when one noted that this seemed to be the attitude of Thomas Davis when they fought the Tallaght Stadium, that there was a fight to stave off the threat of soccer reaching into the minds of young kids in Dublin.

The Lost Sheep

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I’m afraid you don’t see the big picture, but of course that’s your prerogative.

Oh i completely see the big picture actually. I work in a GAA club helping manage the facilities within it. But i am primarily a rugby supporter. Your idea of what the bigger picture is completely flawed.

martingriff

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I’m afraid you don’t see the big picture, but of course that’s your prerogative.

What that the FAI and IRFU want to eliminate the GAA from existence. Did not happen when they were allowed when the Aviva was been redeveloped and won't happen now.

Bridge93

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I’m afraid you don’t see the big picture, but of course that’s your prerogative.

You're urgently needed up in Croke Park to run for president as you seem to have a vision that 95% of people associated with the GAA and 100% not associated are unable to see.

bmm

These GAA lads are living in the dark ages. They should grow up and stop living in the past. We paid for the Parc so open it up or we will take it off you!!

bmm

bmm wrote: »

These GAA lads are living in the dark ages. They should grow up and stop living in the past. We paid for the Parc so open it up or we will take it off you!!

But we paid in the knowledge that this restriction existed.

As I have said from the off, the faked shock that the GAA have raised some obstacle is wrong, everyone knows this rule, they haven't actually changed or done anything.

Bridge93

Yeah the public funding keeps coming up but until either the State or EU and their significant legal knowledge steps in we have to take it that there is nothing untoward about the €30m.
The EU in particular wouldn't let that slide if it was a state aid issue

dulpit

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But once again consider my example.

Cork minor hurling final in PUC with attendance of 871 versus Cork City v Celtic at Turner's Cross with capacity limited to 7k (could be less depending on UEFA rules).

In a world where GAA grounds can be used for other sports agreed at local level what happens in this case.

Do the GAA reschedule or relocate the minor hurling final to fill the ground with the soccer game and take the finincial benefits.

Or do they say no to the soccer game because this is the biggest event in the sporting lives of 60 odd teenage boys, their coaches and their families.

If they take the first option they are accused of being all about the money.

If they take the second option they are accused of wasting public funds and denying sports fans the abity to watch a high level game.

This is a nonsense argument. Clubs already have the ability to look for other grounds that might be bigger than their own (e.g. Rugby, larger soccer stadiums) and how often would it happen? Extremely rarely. If it does happen, would anybody have a problem with the GAA (or IRFU or anybody) telling the organisers of an event that they can't have access to a ground because of a pre-existing event already there? Of course not...

Loads of sports share grounds/facilities. Soccer/Rugby, Cricket/Aussie Rules, Basketball/Ice Hockey, Baseball/American Football. It's not an issue - what makes Ireland/GAA a unique case?