The Liam Miller memorial match and Rule 42

Brendan Bendar

pjohnson wrote: »

So you think the hospice isn't part of the Cork community is it?

Why do you want it to not get as much funds as possible to support the community?

Stop trying to deflect from the issue in discussion and stop trying to put words in my mouth P.

Pauliedragon

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

So how does that contribute to the PUC issue.

We are going around in circles here.

I agree we are it seems as if the game is going ahead at PUC anyway so I've no interest anymore in the rest of the argument. Let's just get on with it and hope the day works out well and leave the other arguments for another day and I will say good on the GAA for letting it happen.

alaimacerc

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Stop trying to deflect from the issue in discussion and stop trying to put words in my mouth P.

Maybe stop with the fanciful lines of argument, then, if you're not liking people pointing out how fanciful they are.

pjohnson

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Stop trying to deflect from the issue in discussion and stop trying to put words in my mouth P.

The actual issue is about a fundraiser.

You are desperatly trying to make it about the FAI or buying bread.

road_high

As an aside to this, Páirc ui chaoimh must be one of the biggest white elephants in the history of the state. From what I’m gathering, hardly any of the Munster GAA teams (bar cork, of course!) are bothered playing there as its too much hassle and travel time to get to. The pitiful attendance at the recent Wexford Clare game tells the story- both were fuming at being dragged 2 hours plus when Thurles would have been much handier for both. The redevelopment should have went on in Thurles as it’s pitch/sod is renowned and is convenient for Munster and Leinster teams. Cork could have had a more modest refreshed venue on the lines of Limerick etc

markodaly

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

That they could do, and also give the tax payer all the millions it has paid to develop GAA sports grounds. Can't have it both ways boyo.

Brendan Bendar

Pauliedragon wrote: »

I agree we are it seems as if the game is going ahead at PUC anyway so I've no interest anymore in the rest of the argument. Let's just get on with it and hope the day works out well and leave the other arguments for another day and I will say good on the GAA for letting it happen.

Haven’t heard any confirmation of that Pauli.

But I feel the issues discussed were important and I have no doubt that other similar issues will crop up very soon.

All this stuff needs to be clarified so that everybody is clear on what and what can’t be done.

The GAA have had a complete ‘mare’ recently on the PR front.

They need to sort that out very quickly as they have given the intitiave to the people whose only agenda is to degrade and pillory them.

STB.

Can we stop with the bad analogies discussion.

GAA Hq have made a right mess of this. They realise this now when the weight of public pressure has placed their own jobs under scrutiny.

As I understand it the cork county board were fully supportive of the idea. HQ were not. It wouldnt be the first time they have clashed.

It was game over for GAA HQ when the GPA had to step in and remind the organisation that they needed to be supportive of both players past and present.

I would imagine any meeting next week will be to iron out the mechanics of ticket recall for turner's cross and for the gaa mandarins to get an acceptable press release out to save face for the organisation as well astheir own skins. Intense scrutiny tends to concentrate the mind.

Bonniedog

If GAA Ard Comhairle overturn the rule set by Congress then they are in breach of constitution. Don't think they can.

Pauliedragon

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Haven’t heard any confirmation of that Pauli.

But I feel the issues discussed were important and I have no doubt that other similar issues will crop up very soon.

All this stuff needs to be clarified so that everybody is clear on what and what can’t be done.

The GAA have had a complete ‘mare’ recently on the PR front.

They need to sort that out very quickly as they have given the intitiave to the people whose only agenda is to degrade and pillory them.

There is no confirmation I've seen either but it's very rare for several media outlets to report something and it's wrong. Also it has been confirmed that the GAA arranged a meeting with organisers so reading between the lines I doubt very much they would have a meeting and then come out of it without giving permission to use the stadium. They'll announce it tomorrow I suspect after today's games have been played so as not to detract from them.

markodaly

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

The current issue with PUC is a bit different, but the principle is the same, you protect your competitive advantage as much as you can.

It’s pure common sense.

Well, first of all, this is a charity match, not retail war.

Secondly, in one way you are right, protecting your competitive advantage and that is what the GAA has been known for the past 100 years.

The president of Ireland (Douglas Hyde) was not allowed to go and see a soccer game once with Ireland playing. That is the end result of this dinosaur way of thinking. Cricket was once the most popular sport in Ireland, played all over the country.

The GAA came along and Blitzkrieg'd that game out of the country like it as a deadly virus. The GAA like the Roman Catholic Church has a very mixed legacy when it comes to its methods from the past.

The GAA will be forced by law to open its stadiums to whatever code wants to use them. It is not the 1950's anymore.

alaimacerc

Niles Crane wrote: »

1).They should have better stadia for LOI teams across the country, that is inarguable, if they did a better job running the game in this country there is no real reason we couldn't have a decent domestic league with proper stadia like they have in Scotland,Norway and other similar sized european countries.

Yeah, we've an entire thread discussing how the Gaa presses its "competitive advantage" against soccer, and rightly so according to many, football fans follow English teams, but it's all down to bumbling bureaucrats in the governing body. They really need to stop hitting themselves.

2)The organizing committee should have given things more time instead of creating a big storm, the Cork County board didn't have any objection at all the PUC being used they should ahve let them lobby Croke Park and explain to them why it needed to be used.

Ah, the "handle it quietly through back-channels" theory. Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Doubtless if his family'd sprinted out the post office on February 9th, they could have got approval from this year's Gaa congress!

This evidently all kicked off when the first 7k tickets sold out so quickly, which led to a rethink, which went public, which got even more publicly slapped down, which led to howls. So, here we are. Blame technology, a couple of decades ago we'd hardly have have managed the first few A chara on the Irish Times letter page at this point.

3) Community events are held with the help of GAA clubs all across the country, it is not the GAA's job to look out for other sports affairs.

As far as I can tell, this is a community and charity event, and has nothing to do with "other sports affairs" at any administrative level.

4)This issue has nothing to with Rugby .

It's surely difficult to overlook that PuC got rebuilt on the basis of hosting the rugby. Talk of a charity soccer match? It's the end of the world.

Brendan Bendar

STB. wrote: »

Can we stop with the bad analogies discussion.

GAA Hq have made a right mess of this. They realise this now when the weight of public pressure has placed their own jobs under scrutiny.

As I understand it the cork county board were fully supportive of the idea. HQ were not. It wouldnt be the first time they have clashed.

It was game over for GAA HQ when the GPA had to step in and remind the organisation that they needed to be supportive of both players past and present.

I would imagine any meeting next week will be to iron out the mechanics of ticket recall for turner's cross and for the gaa mandarins to get an acceptable press release out to save face for the organisation as well astheir own skins. Intense scrutiny tends to concentrate the mind.

This will be used as an ‘exercise’ when training and educating future PR executives.

‘How did an organisation with nothing to do with an event ‘organised ‘by a rival sporting body end up as being blamed for all the controversy which ensued and how did the ‘organisers’ end up as being the perceived heroes and how did the organisation end up facilitating the event and giving invaluable publicity and competitive advantage to a rival organisation’


Wow.

No one would believe that scenario.

alaimacerc

markodaly wrote: »

The GAA will be forced by law to open its stadiums to whatever code wants to use them. It is not the 1950's anymore.

Could be overkill to do the by legislation. Especially retrospectively. Even moreso if applied to stadiums not in receipt of direct subsidy.

alaimacerc

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

This will be used as an ‘exercise’ when training and educating future PR executives.

‘How did an organisation with nothing to do with an event ‘organised ‘by a rival sporting body end up as being blamed for all the controversy which ensued and how did the ‘organisers’ end up as being the perceived heroes and how did the organisation end up facilitating the event and giving invaluable publicity and competitive advantage to a rival organisation’


Wow.

No one would believe that scenario.

Maybe they'll be a "bizarrely warped partisanship on social media" module to this training, and you'll make some images rights money from it on the side.

markodaly

Niles Crane wrote: »

1).They should have better stadia for LOI teams across the country, that is inarguable, if they did a better job running the game in this country there is no real reason we couldn't have a decent domestic league with proper stadia like they have in Scotland,Norway and other similar sized european countries.

There is a giant reason actually, its called the GAA.

The country is too small to support 3 different types of field games. Soccer was put under the thumb for a century in this country. If the GAA didn't exist, soccer and rugby along with cricket would have grown according to their needs.

The GAA got to the top of the pile by mixing nationalism with sport and when on the top of the hill, used their power and influence to put the jackboot on the neck of all other sports that could threaten it.

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

The actual issue is about a fundraiser.

You are desperatly trying to make it about the FAI or buying bread.

That's what happes when you can't argue the point in hand.

Deflect.

alaimacerc

Pauliedragon wrote: »

There is no confirmation I've seen either but it's very rare for several media outlets to report something and it's wrong.

All using the same source, though, and all reporting it in "according to yer man from Cork" terms.

Plus of course, also entirely possible that he was right, was told this directly by an impeccable source in each of the parties, but his tweet provokes a backlash (as we've seen here), and there's a rowback on the rowback.

Brendan Bendar

markodaly wrote: »

There is a giant reason actually, its called the GAA.

The country is too small to support 3 different types of field games. Soccer was put under the thumb for a century in this country. If the GAA didn't exist, soccer and rugby along with cricket would have grown according to their needs.

The GAA got to the top of the pile by mixing nationalism with sport and when on the top of the hill, used their power and influence to put the jackboot on the neck of all other sports that could threaten it.

Bit over the top there.

STB.

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

This will be used as an ‘exercise’ when training and educating future PR executives.

‘How did an organisation with nothing to do with an event ‘organised ‘by a rival sporting body end up as being blamed for all the controversy which ensued and how did the ‘organisers’ end up as being the perceived heroes and how did the organisation end up facilitating the event and giving invaluable publicity and competitive advantage to a rival organisation’


Wow.

No one would believe that scenario.

You do understand the inclusive community ethos of the organisation ?

You do understand that Liam is a former GAA player ?

You do understand that the pr and communications machine of the gaa has had a raft of recent disasters. Any training exercise would look at their recent pr disasters and ask one simple question. How did they hang onto their jobs ?

Wow indeed.

alaimacerc

pjohnson wrote: »

Hes really showing up the GAA worse than anyone else. Quality.

To be fair, he'd give you a certain amount of sympathy for Gaa admin types. They're trying to run a modern sporting, cultural, and community organisation.

Niles Crane

pjohnson wrote: »

Hes really showing up the GAA worse than anyone else. Quality.

I imagine he's doing it in response to all those very funny types who talk about bogball, stickfighting and the gah.

Niles Crane

alaimacerc wrote: »

Yeah, we've an entire thread discussing how the Gaa presses its "competitive advantage" against soccer, and rightly so according to many, football fans follow English teams, but it's all down to bumbling bureaucrats in the governing body. They really need to stop hitting themselves.


Ah, the "handle it quietly through back-channels" theory. Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Doubtless if his family'd sprinted out the post office on February 9th, they could have got approval from this year's Gaa congress!

This evidently all kicked off when the first 7k tickets sold out so quickly, which led to a rethink, which went public, which got even more publicly slapped down, which led to howls. So, here we are. Blame technology, a couple of decades ago we'd hardly have have managed the first few A chara on the Irish Times letter page at this point.


As far as I can tell, this is a community and charity event, and has nothing to do with "other sports affairs" at any administrative level.


It's surely difficult to overlook that PuC got rebuilt on the basis of hosting the rugby. Talk of a charity soccer match? It's the end of the world.

This is a soccer match being used to benefit something connected with a soccer player.It's none of the GAA's business and they shouldn't need to be involved in any way.

Handling through back channels would mean let the Cork County board ask the GAA for permission for the match to be staged not create a big public furore over it unnecessarily.

pjohnson

Niles Crane wrote: »

I imagine he's doing it in response to all those very funny types who talk about bogball, stickfighting and the gah.

This shouldnt ever have been about Soccer vs. GAA. Its a fcuking charity event for a Corkman who died from cancer to raise funds for a local Cork hospice.

A bigger stadium = more tickets = more funds for charity. If anyone thinks either sport is more important than a hospice they need a fcuking reality check.

pjohnson

Niles Crane wrote: »

This is a soccer match being used to benefit something connected with a soccer player. It's none of the GAA's business and they shouldn't need to be involved in any way.

Handling through back channels would mean let the Cork County board ask the GAA for permission for the match to be staged not create a big public furore over it unnecessarily.

Do you think only soccer players get Cancer?

Niles Crane

markodaly wrote: »

There is a giant reason actually, its called the GAA.

The country is too small to support 3 different types of field games. Soccer was put under the thumb for a century in this country. If the GAA didn't exist, soccer and rugby along with cricket would have grown according to their needs.

The GAA got to the top of the pile by mixing nationalism with sport and when on the top of the hill, used their power and influence to put the jackboot on the neck of all other sports that could threaten it.

The GAA promote their owns sports, that's what sports organisations do.

They had to have strict rules at the begging because if they didn't they whole movement would have been crushed by british imperialists, the GAA existed 37 years before we become an independent country.

There has been absolutely nothing stopping the FAI promoting the sport of soccer properly apart from their own incompetence, the LOI was huge in the 60's when the ban was in place and yet it''s declined since the ban was lifted, if it was all the GAA's fault surely the opposite would have occurred.

pjohnson

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

We should keep this debate on topic really

Yes we should. Are you gunna stop bring LOI into a fundraiser match?

No LOI team are involved.

pjohnson

Niles Crane wrote: »

Yes.

Oddly this wouldn't be the daftest thing thats been said.

alaimacerc

Niles Crane wrote: »

I imagine he's doing it in response to all those very funny types who talk about bogball, stickfighting and the gah.

I've not seen mention of "bogball" or "stickfighting" in this thread, and I think I've read all of it. Revenge is a dish best served cold? Or not so much "in response to", as "excusable with a bit of whataboutery and moral relativism about"?

And "gah" is a hatecrime, now? You'll address us by our fully spelled out acronym, ya little bollix? (Even if it is an as Béarla one...)

Brendan Bendar

pjohnson wrote: »

Yes we should. Are you gunna stop bring LOI into a fundraiser match?

No LOI team are involved. At least you stopped talking about bread.

Let’s stop trying to get personal.

pjohnson

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Let’s stop trying to get personal.

Nothing personal. I'm agreeing we should stay on topic.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Niles Crane

pjohnson wrote: »

Yes we should. Are you gunna stop bring LOI into a fundraiser match?

No LOI team are involved. At least you stopped talking about bread.

Apart from Cork City whose ground the match was originally scheduled to be played in.

alaimacerc

Niles Crane wrote: »

This is a soccer match being used to benefit something connected with a soccer player.

It's a fundraiser for a hospice. That you're leading with the ball-booting code involved is quite the exercise in spin.

It's none of the GAA's business and they shouldn't need to be involved in any way.

But should they "need" to be running off to their lawyers to see they can't possibly be involved, even if they wanted to be, and how this is supposedly consistent with their having accepted public funds on the basis that they can be?

Handling through back channels would mean let the Cork County board ask the GAA for permission for the match to be staged not create a big public furore over it unnecessarily.

Or necessarily, or perhaps inevitably.

pjohnson

Niles Crane wrote: »

I gave a stupid answer to a really really stupid question. It's the only response your question deserved.

You claimed

Niles Crane wrote: »

This is a soccer match being used to benefit something connected with a soccer player.

Its being used as a fundraiser to benefit a hospice.

How does a hospice only connect to a soccer player?

Its your own words.

alaimacerc

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Great, let's bring on every possible slur in either direction that anyone's ever heard, regardless of whether it's been used here or not. That's just bound to improve the discussion immeasurably.

Brendan Bendar

alaimacerc wrote: »

It's a fundraiser for a hospice. That you're leading with the ball-booting code involved is quite the exercise in spin.


But should they "need" to be running off to their lawyers to see they can't possibly be involved, even if they wanted to be, and how this is supposedly consistent with their having accepted public funds on the basis that they can be?



Or necessarily, or perhaps inevitably.

Nothing to do with the GAA Al, just people trying to back them into a corner.

Very sorry the Miller family are dragged into this, they don’t deserve to be used as pawns in this.

Accepting public funds was on what basis, so far plenty of hot air, nothing definitive.

STB.

alaimacerc wrote: »

To be fair, he'd give you a certain amount of sympathy for Gaa admin types. They're trying to run a modern sporting, cultural, and community organisation. But they have to keep the head-the-balls onside, too.

You wouldn't if you saw what they are getting paid.

Games behind paywalls, game venues re-dictated outside agreed competition rules, breaking agreements regarding concert numbers, flags. There is nothing that these admin types can't royally fiuck up.

They have long lost touch with the grassroots who are turning against them. I say that as a massive Gaa fan.

This is not the first time that Milton has been caught up in controversy with charity events.

Brendan Bendar

STB. wrote: »

You wouldn't if you saw what they are getting paid.

Games behind paywalls, game venues re-dictated outside agreed competition rules, breaking agreements regarding concert numbers, flags. There is nothing that these admin types can't royally fiuck up.

They have long lost touch with the grassroots who are turning against them. I say that as a massive Gaa fan.

This is not the first time that Milton has been caught up in controversy with charity events.

Jaysus.

STB.

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Jaysus.

Jaysus what Brendan ? You seem to be well able to talk so what have you got to say ?

I'm not a mind-reader.

alaimacerc

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Accepting public funds was on what basis, so far plenty of hot air, nothing definitive.

Nothing above your threshold of confirmation bias; not at all the same thing.

namloc1980

Niles Crane wrote: »

Apart from Cork City whose ground the match was originally scheduled to be played in.

Huh? Turner's Cross is owned and operated by the Munster FA. Cork City are tenants.

Bonniedog

Niles Crane wrote: »

I imagine he's doing it in response to all those very funny types who talk about bogball, stickfighting and the gah.

And they will all be back talking about Unirere and The Pool once this is over. I don't hide my contempt for them.

pjohnson

Bonniedog wrote: »

And they will all be back talking about Unirere and The Pool once this is over. I don't hide my contempt for them.

Not everyone can only enjoy one sport at a time BD. As you get older you might be able to enjoy multiple sports. Most can tbf.

Plenty of regulars in the dub thread can be found in soccer aswell.

namloc1980

Bonniedog wrote: »

And they will all be back talking about Unirere and The Pool once this is over. I don't hide my contempt for them.

Your contempt for people who like other sports? That's fairly bigoted. People who like Gaelic games and soccer must be your mortal enemies so.

Pedro K

threeball wrote: »

How much public funding was given to the Aviva or tallaght stadium without a thought given to whether gaa could be played there?

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

There was a major objection to Tallagh Stadium by a local GAA club because the dimensions meant that GAA could never be played there, so public money was being spent and the GAA were excluded

It held up the building for a long time.

There were similar concern about the redevelopment of Lansdowne in the early 2000s but not as public and well before any actual work started on the rebuild.

Correct. Thomas Davis objected to every court in the land and held up construction of the stadium for years.

Tallaght has been used for Leinster rugby training sessions, American football matches, rugby league matches, underage GAA matches, and many other things. So the other poster's comparison was ridiculous anyway.

seligehgit

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

We should keep this debate on topic really

Mod Warning

Can we please keep this thread on topic and more importantly post in a civil manner.

Cards will be issued henceforth.

Joe Daly

Is this not to make money for a hospice for people with cancer it will benefit comfort people in there later days of there illness that has effected every family in Ireland.

pjohnson

Joe Daly wrote: »

Is this not to make money for a hospice for people with cancer it will benefit comfort people in there later days of there illness that has effected every family in Ireland.

Yep it is. Its disgraceful carry on altogether to make as much money as they can for a good cause.

The Talking Bread

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