The Liam Miller memorial match and Rule 42

Niles Crane

pjohnson wrote: »

This shouldnt ever have been about Soccer vs. GAA. Its a fcuking charity event for a Corkman who died from cancer to raise funds for a local Cork hospice.

A bigger stadium = more tickets = more funds for charity. If anyone thinks either sport is more important than a hospice they need a fcuking reality check.

In don't think anyone here does think sport is more important than a charity.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I don’t agree, Dulpit

I am not per se saying that “one soccer match...”I’m defending the stance of the GAA to protect their competitive advantage from their competitors.

Now let’s say that this game were to go ahead in PUC say on a date in September.I can assure you that for at least a week or two before it the main topic of interest amongst the youngsters of the Cork area would be this game.

I could assure you the parents grandparents etc would come under severe pressure to get tickets and I would be extremely surprised if this didn’t result in loss of potential GAA players.Now a small loss maybe but for two weeks at least this would be an event of major interest amongst the young sporting children and all provided and facilitated by a rival sporting organization.

All the proof needed is the mayhem at exhibition matches when Liverpool or Celtic or MU come over for what are basically training spins.


The GAA are just protecting their patch against far far bigger players with deep pockets more exposure on TV.

And in my opinion they are quite right.

Your post is disgusting and I consider it anti Irish. Ireland has a small population, the same size as the greater Manchester area. Nobody is in competion with each other. Irish sports people are Irish sports people, most Irish people don't actually care about any sports. The Irish people that do care about sport have their preferences, but we are all in general coming from the same place.

"Competitive advantage from their competitors" sounds like a business. This isn't a business, this is about a Cork man who loved sport, I'm a Cork man who loves sport. The government gave 30 million towards this stadium, around the recession when people were tightening their belt, but the GAA were happy to take it. 30 million of public money. Pay back that public money to our state, or open it up for other sports to use. Cork has one big stadium, it doesn't need anymore, so open up its use, or close it off and let the GAA pay for it out of their own pocket.

It's either an Irish stadium paid for with money from Irish people. Or its a GAA stadium paid for by GAA people. You cannot have it both ways.

Brendan Bendar

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Very sorry the Miller family are dragged into this, they don’t deserve to be used as pawns in this.

There's a lot of very snide references to those behind the match, Bonniedog and at least one other, may have been Niles Crane, have pretty much accused them of devising a stunt to attack the GAA, now you are suggesting they are using the Miller family as pawns.

They are collecting money for the family and a hospice. They are looking to maximise the amount they raise. It's unpleasant that you defend the GAA so much that you would attack them for that. Again, by all means defend Rule 42, but having a go at Liam Miller like Bonniedog, or the motives of those simply trying to raise money like you, does little to advance your argument.

The Talking Bread

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Your post is disgusting and I consider it anti Irish. Ireland has a small population, the same size as the greater Manchester area. Nobody is in competion with each other. Irish sports people are Irish sports people, most Irish people don't actually care about any sports. The Irish people that do care about sport have their preferences, but we are all in general coming from the same place.

"Competitive advantage from their competitors" sounds like a business. This isn't a business, this is about a Cork man who loved sport, I'm a Cork man who loves sport. The government gave 30 million towards this stadium, around the recession when people were tightening their belt, but the GAA were happy to take it. 30 million of public money. Pay back that public money to our state, or open it up for other sports to use. Cork has one big stadium, it doesn't need anymore, so open up its use, or close it off and let the GAA pay for it out of their own pocket.

It's either an Irish stadium paid for with money from Irish people. Or its a GAA stadium paid for by GAA people. You cannot have it both ways.

I wouldn't bother humouring him or certain other posters on here with replies. They are only looking to sound controversial and opinionated to force silly arguments.

Niles Crane

Deleted User wrote: »

There's a lot of very snide references to those behind the match, Bonniedog and at least one other, may have been Niles Crane, have pretty much accused them of devising a stunt to attack the GAA, now you are suggesting they are using the Miller family as pawns.

They are collecting money for the family and a hospice. They are looking to maximise the amount they raise. It's unpleasant that you defend the GAA so much that you would attack them for that. Again, by all means defend Rule 42, but having a go at Liam Miller like Bonniedog, or the motives of those simply trying to raise money like you, does little to advance your argument.

The organizers ****ed up, simple as that.They had no right to use PUC and instead of going through the proper channels they decided to publicize the issue when they could have let the Cork County board sort it out for them, then this whole issue has been used by a load of people for having a cheap dig at the GAA. They knew what the GAA's rules were yet decided to turn this thing into an undignified charade when they could have kept any grievances quiet and waiting on the Cork County board to sort it out for them.

Niles Crane

Niles Crane wrote: »

The organizers ****ed up, simple as that.They had no right to use PUC and instead of going through the proper channels they decided to publicize the issue when they could have let the Cork County board sort it out for them, then this whole issue has been used by a load of people for having a cheap dig at the GAA. They knew what the GAA's rules were yet decided to turn this thing into an undignified charade when they could have kept any grievances quiet and waiting on the Cork County board to sort it out for them.

Oh yes, I forgot the specifics of the argument you dreamt up, which is that the organisers would have waltzed into PuC if only they had stayed quiet, but not only could they not keep their big mouths shut, but you know that it is they who have orchestrated a whole campaign against the GAA

You do know that has come from your own imagination, don't you? The idea that the Cork County Board would have allowed it if they kept it on the QT is laughable.

Niles Crane

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh yes, I forgot the specifics of the argument you dreamt up, which is that the organisers would have waltzed into PuC if only they had stayed quiet, but not only could they not keep their big mouths shut, but you know that it is they who have orchestrated a whole campaign against the GAA

You do know that has come from your own imagination, don't you? The idea that the Cork County Board would have allowed it if they kept it on the QT is laughable.

The cork county board have never had any issue with the match taking place. Thats been confirmed by the organisers.

Coillte_Bhoy

Niles Crane wrote: »

The organizers ****ed up, simple as that.They had no right to use PUC and instead of going through the proper channels they decided to publicize the issue when they could have let the Cork County board sort it out for them, then this whole issue has been used by a load of people for having a cheap dig at the GAA. They knew what the GAA's rules were yet decided to turn this thing into an undignified charade when they could have kept any grievances quiet and waiting on the Cork County board to sort it out for them.

Total lies. They were asked a questiona and answered it truthfully

Brendan Bendar

Niles Crane wrote: »

The organizers ****ed up, simple as that.They had no right to use PUC and instead of going through the proper channels they decided to publicize the issue when they could have let the Cork County board sort it out for them, then this whole issue has been used by a load of people for having a cheap dig at the GAA. They knew what the GAA's rules were yet decided to turn this thing into an undignified charade when they could have kept any grievances quiet and waiting on the Cork County board to sort it out for them.

Correct and right.

These lads whoever they are fcuked up royally here.

They have embarrassed Mr Millers family , put a dampener in an event which could have done good for the family by their actions.

This whole shoddy affair has now been cheapened and those responsible haven’t the guts to at least identify themselves and admit they were wrong.

Very very poor show indeed.

twowheelsonly

Niles Crane wrote: »

The organizers ****ed up, simple as that.They had no right to use PUC and instead of going through the proper channels they decided to publicize the issue when they could have let the Cork County board sort it out for them, then this whole issue has been used by a load of people for having a cheap dig at the GAA. They knew what the GAA's rules were yet decided to turn this thing into an undignified charade when they could have kept any grievances quiet and waiting on the Cork County board to sort it out for them.

No they didn't...

At the launch a reporter asked the Lord Mayor, Cllr Mick Finn (a big GAA man himself...) about PUiC and he simply replied that they had enquired and that it wouldn't be happening there.
Social Media then exploded with it when people realised they wouldn't be able to get tickets for it. It had absolutely zero to do with the organising committee. Mick Finn is the last man that would want to put the GAA in a spot.
if anything the organising committe have kept their heads down through all of this.

Personally I'd prefer if it just went ahead in Turners Cross now and be done with it. it would be a lot less hassle and a lot less organising in it. I'm sure that most of the organising committee feel the same at this stage.

Brendan Bendar

twowheelsonly wrote: »

No they didn't...

At the launch a reporter asked the Lord Mayor, Cllr Mick Finn (a big GAA man himself...) about PUiC and he simply replied that they had enquired and that it wouldn't be happening there.
Social Media then exploded with it when people realised they wouldn't be able to get tickets for it. It had absolutely zero to do with the organising committee. Mick Finn is the last man that would want to put the GAA in a spot.
if anything the organising committe have kept their heads down through all of this.

Personally I'd prefer if it just went ahead in Turners Cross now and be done with it. it would be a lot less hassle and a lot less organising in it. I'm sure that most of the organising committee feel the same at this stage.

Well if that’s the case they should come out into the open and end all this rubbish.

They should say the game goes ahead in Turners cross and PUC is out of the picture.

That would be the decent thing to do.

batgoat

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Well if that’s the case they should come out into the open and end all this rubbish.

They should say the game goes ahead in Turners cross and PUC is out of the picture.

That would be the decent thing to do.

I think most GAA fans view the decent thing to be, host event for hospice in PUC, don't think there's many in Cork in general that don't view it as important to host it.

Brendan Bendar

batgoat wrote: »

I think most GAA fans view the decent thing to be, host event for hospice in PUC, don't think there's many in Cork in general that don't view it as important to host it.

Yes,I agree there, however all this stuff seems to have been ‘started’ by the largely it would appear,amateur ‘organisers ‘ who let this thing get totally out of hand and put pressure on the GAA and more importantly the family of Mr Miller.

Now of course everyone meant well but it’s a salutary lesson how not to do things,and one can’t help thinking that some of the ‘officials’ involved should have kept their mouths shut before spouting about PUC until the agreement was either reached or not reached.

Hope this is sorted and quickly, it cannot be dragged on.

Fr Tod Umptious

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Yes,I agree there, however all this stuff seems to have been ‘started’ by the largely it would appear,amateur ‘organisers ‘ who let this thing get totally out of hand and put pressure on the GAA and more importantly the family of Mr Miller.

Now of course everyone meant well but it’s a salutary lesson how not to do things,and one can’t help thinking that some of the ‘officials’ involved should have kept their mouths shut before spouting about PUC until the agreement was either reached or not reached.

Hope this is sorted and quickly, it cannot be dragged on.

This was always a lose lose situation for the GAA even though it had little to do with them.

As soon as the idea was mentioned by whomever of putting this in PUC the GAA were on the back foot, because people just jump up and down about the GAA and it's rules ever so often.

If it's not happening in PUC then I can see the GAA explaining why to the organisers and handing over a nice donation to Marymount.

I say Marymount rather than the testimonial fund because I'd imagine the Marymount would see a lot more of a direct donation than one coming from the fund.

Chopper83

GAA are rolling from one PR disaster to the next, so out of touch with the ordinary people it is unbelievable.

Brendan Bendar

Deleted User wrote: »

There's a lot of very snide references to those behind the match, Bonniedog and at least one other, may have been Niles Crane, have pretty much accused them of devising a stunt to attack the GAA, now you are suggesting they are using the Miller family as pawns.

They are collecting money for the family and a hospice. They are looking to maximise the amount they raise. It's unpleasant that you defend the GAA so much that you would attack them for that. Again, by all means defend Rule 42, but having a go at Liam Miller like Bonniedog, or the motives of those simply trying to raise money like you, does little to advance your argument.

I’m afraid you are trying to put stuff into my posts that are not there.

Using words like ‘attack’ and ‘unpleasant’ are very emotive and not warranted.

You let yourself down by that kind of stuff Conor.

Brendan Bendar

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I’m afraid you are trying to put stuff into my posts that are not there.

Using words like ‘attack’ and ‘unpleasant’ are very emotive and not warranted.

You let yourself down by that kind of stuff Conor.

Don't get so defensive and personal. You've made accusations about the organisers. It is attacking them, and it is unpleasant.

As twowheelsonly pointed out, you were wrong. Instead of retracting the line you've started getting personal now.

It's very pathetic. As I've said all along, I think some of the attacks on the GAA are wrong, particularly this whole idea that they decided to stop the game going ahead in PuC when they have simply pointed to a rule we know about for decades.

But making accusations about organisers who are simply trying to maximise income for charity, and by implication the Miller family, is not good. Particularly when you've made up a scenario and stuck with it even after someone corrected your facts.

Brendan Bendar

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't get so defensive and personal. You've made accusations about the organisers. It is attacking them, and it is unpleasant.

As twowheelsonly pointed out, you were wrong. Instead of retracting the line you've started getting personal now.

It's very pathetic. As I've said all along, I think some of the attacks on the GAA are wrong, particularly this whole idea that they decided to stop the game going ahead in PuC when they have simply pointed to a rule we know about for decades.

But making accusations about organisers who are simply trying to maximise income for charity, and by implication the Miller family, is not good. Particularly when you've made up a scenario and stuck with it even after someone corrected your facts.

You are inferring content from my posts which is not there.

I could dig into your accusations further but that would be dragging the thread off topic and start getting personal.

I don’t intend to derail the thread by doing that.

Brendan Bendar

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

You are inferring content from my posts which is not there.

I could dig into your accusations further but that would be dragging the thread off topic and start getting personal.

I don’t intend to derail the thread by doing that.

Your claim that the issue was started by the organisers and that they have upset the Miller family is not off topic or personal at all.

Completely wrong and unjustified, as twowheelsonly has pointed out, but very much on topic. So don't use that line to try and wriggle out of it or backtrack.

Are you standing over the assertion that the organisers have put pressure on the Miller family and embarrassed them? Can you point to one comment from the family to suggest this or can we assume it was entirely made up by you?

Brendan Bendar

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Your claim that the issue was started by the organisers and that they have upset the Miller family is not off topic or personal at all.

Completely wrong and unjustified, as twowheelsonly has pointed out, but very much on topic. So don't use that line to try and wriggle out of it or backtrack.

Are you standing over the assertion that the organisers have put pressure on the Miller family and embarrassed them? Can you point to one comment from the family to suggest this or can we assume it was entirely made up by you?

Point out where i said the organizers put pressure on the Miller family and embarrassed them

Coillte_Bhoy

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Point out where i said the organizers put pressure on the Miller family and embarrassed them

Post #310

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

They have embarrassed Mr Millers family

Bridge93

Walked right into that one

Ash.J.Williams

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Your post is disgusting and I consider it anti Irish. Ireland has a small population, the same size as the greater Manchester area. Nobody is in competion with each other. Irish sports people are Irish sports people, most Irish people don't actually care about any sports. The Irish people that do care about sport have their preferences, but we are all in general coming from the same place.

"Competitive advantage from their competitors" sounds like a business. This isn't a business, this is about a Cork man who loved sport, I'm a Cork man who loves sport. The government gave 30 million towards this stadium, around the recession when people were tightening their belt, but the GAA were happy to take it. 30 million of public money. Pay back that public money to our state, or open it up for other sports to use. Cork has one big stadium, it doesn't need anymore, so open up its use, or close it off and let the GAA pay for it out of their own pocket.

It's either an Irish stadium paid for with money from Irish people. Or its a GAA stadium paid for by GAA people. You cannot have it both ways.

The thing is... Soccer can have 30m too if they have the business plan to back it up

STB.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Yes,I agree there, however all this stuff seems to have been ‘started’ by the largely it would appear,amateur ‘organisers ‘ who let this thing get totally out of hand and put pressure on the GAA and more importantly the family of Mr Miller.

Now of course everyone meant well but it’s a salutary lesson how not to do things,and one can’t help thinking that some of the ‘officials’ involved should have kept their mouths shut before spouting about PUC until the agreement was either reached or not reached.

Hope this is sorted and quickly, it cannot be dragged on.

This was always a lose lose situation for the GAA even though it had little to do with them.

It was a losing situation when gaa hq released press releases saying that their rules precluded foreign sports etc in this case.

There is nothing in the posts above that will change cork minds. A lot clearly happened before that launch.

It was requested, the cork county board agreeable, gaa hq were not. Then it got into the public domain and the hq were castigated yet again for forgetting the local community in cork. The player had previously played gaa and is pictured captaining his team to a final at puc.


The GAA top brass needs a shakeup. The arrogance is plain as the nose on your face. They need someone at the top table that represents grassroots and has the ability to say as much.

markodaly

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Yes,I agree there, however all this stuff seems to have been ‘started’ by the largely it would appear,amateur ‘organisers ‘ who let this thing get totally out of hand and put pressure on the GAA and more importantly the family of Mr Miller.

Now of course everyone meant well but it’s a salutary lesson how not to do things,and one can’t help thinking that some of the ‘officials’ involved should have kept their mouths shut before spouting about PUC until the agreement was either reached or not reached.

Hope this is sorted and quickly, it cannot be dragged on.

The issue got legs because the public put 2 and 2 together and realised that even after the taxpayer-funded PUC to the tune of €30 million, they won't let a charity match be hosted there because of the evangelist view the top brass seem to have.

It shows up how conservative and archaic the GAA rulebook is and how some of the top brass see themselves above the law.

Chickens coming home to roast with this one.

Oh, and Cork City FC might be playing Celtic in the next round of the Europa League. They should be allowed play in PUC as the demand will be there for it.

markodaly

Bonniedog wrote: »

GAA should give them 100k and move on.

At very least it will get rid of the imbeciles infesting this thread.

The GAA is not above the law of the land. This is not an episode of the Sopranos, even though the GAA act like the Mafia on occasion.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Bonniedog

markodaly wrote: »

The GAA is not above the law of the land. This is not an episode of the Sopranos, even though the GAA act like the Mafia on occasion.

We have rules and a Congress with delegates elected by hundreds of thousands of members.

Bonniedog

Touché

tototoe

Bonniedog wrote: »

FAI are a nepotistic gang accountable to no-one and presiding over a joke of an "international" team, about the equivalent of Sligo hurlers, and one of most pathetic domestic leagues on the planet whose players have to strike for 200 Euro a week!

Funny cause its true.

Weepsie

Bonniedog wrote: »

We have rules and a Congress with delegates elected by hundreds of thousands of members.

.

Law of the land and EC rules supercede what the GAA has in its constitution.

It has also ignored its own constitution when it suited.

markodaly

Bonniedog wrote: »

We have rules and a Congress with delegates elected by hundreds of thousands of members.

GAA rules are not above the law of the land. You may seem to think so, but I am sorry, they are not.

STB.

pjohnson wrote: »

Thats all true. If completely unrelated to the Charity Game. Maybe a bit harsh on Sligo hurlers tbh.

It is absolutely true. However the gaa should set the bar a lot higher especially after recently picking up a local community integration award. The GAA should have taken advantage of the situation saying he was one of ours. Rather than been told to do it by the GPA who are equally apalled by the organisations stance.

I'm all for other organisations being told to use their own resources, but not in extreme sad cases where the proposal involves an ex player and local community hero whose family and charity can benefit. You take advantage of those situations through a "what can we do" attitude, you open yourself up to other communities becoming interested. That's the gaa ethos.

This was poorly controlled public relations by the gaa, who should have foreseen how this would play out. It's not the first. There have been a raft of these pr disasters in recent times.

purplepanda

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

The thing is... Soccer can have 30m too if they have the business plan to back it up

Seeing as Cork GAA own the two largest stadiums in Cork City, maybe it's time to sell the 17K Pairc Ui Rinn grounds for Rugby / Association Football use?

I don't really see the point in Cork GAA running this stadium, particularly when the new PUC cost so much to build & maintain?

Is their any logic in them keeping it because I can't see any?

Weepsie

purplepanda wrote: »

Seeing as Cork GAA own the two largest stadiums in Cork City, maybe it's time to sell the 17K Pairc Ui Rinn grounds for Rugby / Association Football use?

Which was originally a Football (as in Soccer) stadium and Cork GAA outbid Cork City FC for it in the 80s

Bonniedog

They've sold 3.000 tickets so far.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Bridge93

Sold 3000 tickets to what? The game at Turners Cross sold out in a couple of minutes

Cork Boy 53

Bonniedog wrote: »

They've sold 3.000 tickets so far.

Source for this? I was under the impression that the 7000 capacity of Turners Cross had sold out very quickly.

roadmaster

purplepanda wrote: »

Seeing as Cork GAA own the two largest stadiums in Cork City, maybe it's time to sell the 17K Pairc Ui Rinn grounds for Rugby / Association Football use?

I don't really see the point in Cork GAA running this stadium, particularly when the new PUC cost so much to build & maintain?

Is their any logic in them keeping it because I can't see any?

I would say within in 5 years you will see houses and apartments being built on it. Cork county board also own 30 plus acres which has had 21 acres rezoned. They will sale both i would say and clear there debt

Coillte_Bhoy

Weepsie wrote: »

Law of the land and EC rules supercede what the GAA has in its constitution.

It has also ignored its own constitution when it suited.

Im sure this may have happened but any examples?

Dublin Spur

Niles Crane wrote: »

He was a soccer player.

PUC is a GAA ground.

its 'football' not 'soccer'
cheers

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

The Lost Sheep

purplepanda wrote: »

Seeing as Cork GAA own the two largest stadiums in Cork City, maybe it's time to sell the 17K Pairc Ui Rinn grounds for Rugby / Association Football use?

I don't really see the point in Cork GAA running this stadium, particularly when the new PUC cost so much to build & maintain?

Is their any logic in them keeping it because I can't see any?

Cork GAA county wide needs Pairc Ui Rinn for its club/county teams finals etc.

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Source for this? I was under the impression that the 7000 capacity of Turners Cross had sold out very quickly.

He wouldnt have one. Turners cross had sold out.

Hitman3000

Some serious nastiness on this thread about what is a charity event in memory of a sportsman and fundraising for a hospice.

purplepanda

roadmaster wrote: »

I would say within in 5 years you will see houses and apartments being built on it. Cork county board also own 30 plus acres which has had 21 acres rezoned. They will sale both i would say and clear there debt

If they sell some of the complex / adjoining land for housing development fair enough, but the sports field should be kept for community use, perhaps complete inside a smaller capacity stadium.

Nothing worse than historical sports grounds being demolished without providing facilities for local grass roots usage. :mad:

keeponhurling

I've no problem with the GAA "top brass" respecting the rules of the organisation .

If they ignored the rules in place, without a democratic vote at Congress, they'd be accused of arrogance or bring out of touch.

Obvious not everybody agrees with every rule, but you can always propose a motion to have them changed.
I think this rule needs to be looked at, somehow to add more flexibility.

Slieve Gullion

I sure hope this match doesn't get the go ahead in Páirc Uí Chaoimh.

The Talking Bread

"soccer heads"

So it begins again...............

The Talking Bread

No, carry on.......... You know what you are at