US Presidential Election 2020

Foxtrol

everlast75 wrote: »

I listened to Preet's pod and the rules or lack thereof are the fault of the committee who set it up.

Very interesting listen

I'll have to give that a listen.

There is no way they hadn't agreed to basic rules like each person speaks for 2 minutes, a rule that Trump breached dozens of times. Sure they could have mute buttons but the thought that more rules would have stopped Trump acting the way he did (has repeatedly) seems pretty fanciful.

Gunmonkey

briany wrote: »

And Trump is on Twitter complaining that the debate was 2 on 1 against him! That's nuts. It makes me wonder what Wallace would have to have done to make Trump say it was a fair debate. Show up in a MAGA hat and join Trump in shouting Biden down?

Honestly.....only denying Biden a microphone for the whole debate, shout down Biden after he speaks for more than 10 seconds (possibly 5 depending on Trumps mood) to allow Trump to respond with a 7 minute long tirade, have more "Vote Trump" signs in the back/foreground, more pro-Trump members in the audience who are allowed to cheer/chant as they want, all questions can be answered with "Because I'm so great/ I'm so smart/ I'm the best President ever/ Because Obama wasnt born in America truefactslookitup!" Even allowing Biden into the building was probably his version of "Et tu, Wally!"

Maybe after all that he might have considered it somewhat fair.

amdublin

I feel bad for Chris Wallace. I guess he didn't expect Trump the child to turn up for a debate

He says that Trump bears most responsibility for how the debate went and:

"I had baked this beautiful, delicious cake and then frankly the President put his foot in it," Wallace said.

amdublin

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/hope-hicks-positive-coronavirus/index.html

Breaking news:
Hope Hicks, a close advisor of Trump has tested positive for coronavirus

Tell me how

Kimberly Guilfoyle, Hope Hicks, Melania all in news for wrong reasons for Trump campaign at moment.

With the Bob Woodward news, the Atlantic story about his comments on dead soldiers, NY Times story on his taxes, his campaign has taken some hiding in the last month.

LessOutragePlz

Tell me how wrote: »

Kimberly Guilfoyle, Hope Hicks, Melania all in news for wrong reasons for Trump campaign at moment.

With the Bob Woodward news, the Atlantic story about his comments on dead soldiers, NY Times story on his taxes, his campaign has taken some hiding in the last month.

You can add him getting covid-19 to that list.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1311892190680014849?s=19

everlast75

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

You can add him getting covid-19 to that list.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1311892190680014849?s=19

All he had to do is not get tested!

LessOutragePlz

everlast75 wrote: »

All he had to do is not get tested!

This is going to be the greatest recovery from covid-19 that anyone has ever seen!

everlast75

*Puts on tin foil hat*

This is all a ploy. He got destroyed in the first debate and needed to get out of the rest without losing face.

He feels sorry for himself and so concocts a story with his GP to say he has COVID so people feel sorry for him too. Yet he is still able to manage day to day activities, therefore re-enforcing the perception that it is really nothing to worry about and people can go about their business.

duploelabs

everlast75 wrote: »

*Puts on tin foil hat*

This is all a ploy. He got destroyed in the first debate and needed to get out of the rest without losing face.

He feels sorry for himself and so concocts a story with his GP to say he has COVID so people feel sorry for him too. Yet he is still able to manage day to day activities, therefore re-enforcing the perception that it is really nothing to worry about and people can go about their business.

People will also forget that he's taking hydroxychloroquine to prevent him catching covid, it's meant to work right because trump said so

everlast75

just two nights ago, at the debate, this was the reporting

https://twitter.com/tylerpager/status/1311108577696849920?s=20

As a human being, I wouldn't wish COVID19 on anyone, including Trump. But I have to say with him, that was a marginal call and I really struggled with it.

Trump's complete recklessness, bravado and downright lies he told to the american people means he has blood on his hands. He has endangered millions of lives.

He had all the resources in the world to protect him, his wife, his kids and he brushed all of those protections away. Either he thought he knew better, or he just doesn't care for his family.

Quin_Dub

How will this impact the campaign?

Clearly he's going to have to isolate until he gets a negative test, which could be days or weeks depending on how the virus progresses.

So essentially no campaign activities and if he actually gets sick with it not even Video messages etc.

How will voters react?

Given that Pence will be a close contact, what happens to the VP debate, because he will have to isolate as well right?

On a more serious note, if he were to get truly ill, like Boris Johnson did ,what implications does that have on his ability to actually stand for Election?

I mean, what are the rules/procedures that might have to come into play?

beggars_bush

Where will he isolate?
White house or one of his hotels?

Itssoeasy

I think hope hicks found out Wednesday(or got tested) so presumably she was positive on Tuesday and obviously trump and the First Lady have it but now everyone on Air Force one and in that venue who were close to hope hicks will need to get tested. Or at least that’s how I think should happen.

everlast75

Quin_Dub wrote: »

How will this impact the campaign?

Clearly he's going to have to isolate until he gets a negative test, which could be days or weeks depending on how the virus progresses.

So essentially no campaign activities and if he actually gets sick with it not even Video messages etc.

How will voters react?

Given that Pence will be a close contact, what happens to the VP debate, because he will have to isolate as well right?

On a more serious note, if he were to get truly ill, like Boris Johnson did ,what implications does that have on his ability to actually stand for Election?

I mean, what are the rules/procedures that might have to come into play?

The prospects are awful! The next debate will be via Zoom!!!


But seriously, if neither Trump nor Pence can perform their duties, Nancy is third in line. Wouldn't that be something...

Itssoeasy

beggars_bush wrote: »

Where will he isolate?
White house or one of his hotels?

White House presumably. I take it the press secretary will at the very least have to limit her movements and get tested given she has daily context with the president.

Phoebas

This could play well for him.

If he gets through it unscathed then he's the strongman President who personally fought Covid and won.
If it flattens him then he gets a sympathy vote with lots of opportunities for his opponents to fail to read the country right by attacking a man downed with a terrible illness.

It's a curve ball that could go anywhere.

Wanderer78

Phoebas wrote:

If he gets through it unscathed then he's the strongman President who personally fought Covid and won. If it flattens him then he gets a sympathy vote with lots of opportunities for his opponents to fail to read the country right by attacking a man downed with a terrible illness.

Seriously doubt that, I'd say the deciders have had enough of him now, can the elections go ahead if he is unable to campaign?

everlast75

Phoebas wrote: »

This could play well for him.

If he gets through it unscathed then he's the strongman President who personally fought Covid and won.
If it flattens him then he gets a sympathy vote with lots of opportunities for his opponents to fail to read the country right by attacking a man downed with a terrible illness.

It's a curve ball that could go anywhere.

He has been known to dictate his own medical report.

All of his medical staff are quacks.

As someone wittier than I said, I'll believe it when I see the long form COVID19 cert

Quin_Dub

What would happen if he was hospitalised or even in ICU in terms of the Election?

Does he have to stand down and take himself off the ballot?

Are there any rules about the health of the candidate in terms of their physical ability to take office etc.?

Wanderer78

Is there a possibility we re dealing with fake news here?

Phoebas

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Seriously doubt that, I'd say the deciders have had enough of him now, can the elections go ahead if he is unable to campaign?

I can't see any problem with the election going ahead (unless he dies - I don't know what would happen then).

The next debate (Oct 15?) I presume will not go ahead no matter what. And no more rallies probably for the remainder of the campaign.

VinLieger

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Is there a possibility we re dealing with fake news here?

Yes absolutely, it could 100% be a ploy to skip the debates and get some sympathy votes.

Phoebas

Quin_Dub wrote: »

What would happen if he was hospitalised or even in ICU in terms of the Election?

Does he have to stand down and take himself off the ballot?

Are there any rules about the health of the candidate in terms of their physical ability to take office etc.?

I don't know if he can even choose to take himself off the ballot, and I can't imagine any system that could force him off the ballot due to incapacity. If he wins but can't take office then it goes to Pence.

I don't know what would happen if he died prior to the election.

duploelabs

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Is there a possibility we re dealing with fake news here?

Not fake news as that would, by definition, be a fabrication by the news reporter.

It could be just b*ll****

everlast75

What happened this time 4 years ago...

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/782673397952094208?s=19

It is so very hard to feel sorry for him today

Zubeneschamali

If he dies now, the RNC picks a new candidate. They probably pick Pence and a new VP.

Same if he withdraws on health grounds.

If he dies close to election day or after it but before electors make him president elect (assuming he wins the votes) it gets messy.

hetuzozaho

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Does he have to stand down and take himself off the ballot?

He would have to 'stand back and stand by'.

is_that_so

duploelabs wrote: »

Not fake news as that would, by definition, be a fabrication by the news reporter.

It could be just b*ll****

His doctor has released a statement as well so probably not nonsense.

Wanderer78

is_that_so wrote:

His doctor has released a statement as well so probably not nonsense.

Was his doctor paid off?

everlast75

is_that_so wrote: »

His doctor has released a statement as well so probably not nonsense.

Is that the doctor he dictated his own medical report to, the doctor who said he had bones spurs, or the doctor that said if he didn't eat fastfood everyday, he would live to be over 100 due to his fantastic genes?

Inquitus

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Was his doctor paid off?

I don't think its possible to predict whether Trump getting Covid is good or bad for his election chances, imho, it's probably bad due to his cavalier attitude and general handling of the outbreak, not something I can see being made up tbh.

Phoebas

I know we live in strange times, but the idea that this is a big hoax being perpetrated by Trump is just completely off the wall.

Wanderer78

Phoebas wrote:

I know we live in strange times, but the idea that this is a big hoax being perpetrated by Trump is just completely off the wall.

Not really, he'd do anything to protect his ego, typical narrcacisst

hetuzozaho

Phoebas wrote: »

I know we live in strange times, but the idea that this is a big hoax being perpetrated by Trump is just completely off the wall.

It's just you can't rule anything out with this chancer.

We've watched him lie to us so much.

VinLieger

Phoebas wrote: »

I know we live in strange times, but the idea that this is a big hoax being perpetrated by Trump is just completely off the wall.

Why exactly? Do you honestly believe after the last 5 years its out of the realms of possibility for him to try something like this?

Im not saying its deffinitely whats happening but im absolutely open to the idea of it, id say at the moment im around 50/50 its a real vs being a hoax

Chips Lovell

Mod Note

Let's drop the conspiracy theories. There's another forum for that. If you think someone is lying about having COVID-19, you'll need to something to substantiate it beyond mere speculation.

Inquitus

VinLieger wrote: »

Why exactly? Do you honestly believe after the last 5 years its out of the realms of possibility for him to try something like this?

Hard to see how it benefits him tbh, which in my mind makes any hoax very doubtful. Plus he misses 3 campaign events in key states and possibly the 2nd debate.

Wanderer78

Chips Lovell wrote:

Let's drop the conspiracy theories. There's another forum for that. If you think someone is lying about having COVID-19, you'll need to something to substantiate it beyond mere speculation.

To be fair.....

Nody

VinLieger wrote: »

Why exactly? Do you honestly believe after the last 5 years its out of the realms of possibility for him to try something like this?

Im not saying its deffinitely whats happening but im absolutely open to the idea of it, id say at the moment im around 50/50 its a real vs being a hoax

It's not about him not trying it; it's simply he's to incompetent to have a chance to pull it off and his staff would know this as well. He'd tweet "I got corona" today and tomorrow "The china virus is all fake news, I never had it".

Gbear

Trump not having coronavirus isn't a conspiracy theory. At least not in the way the term is usually used.

They tend to not be falsifiable (there's always an excuse as to why things don't turn out to be true - note Q anon's lack of accurate predictions).
Trump having COVID would be proven if he has a serious case and is hospitalized or dies.

They also tend to be more than a single lie. They're a network of lies that require a fanciful degree of coordination among not just people directly effected, but an absurdly large pool of people. See a conspiracy theory like climate change being a hoax - it would require probably millions of scientists; virtually all of them in the climatology field, cooperating to lie about it.
Here it's just Trump's inner circle.

We have priors for Trump lying about literally anything, including things that are easily disproven like the size of his inauguration crowd. It's absurd to think that he's beyond lying about it.

We've also seen another fascist lie about coronavirus, or almost certainly lie, because Bolsonaro has claimed to have got it twice.

There is also an obvious motive to do so - dodging debates and trying to undermine attacks on him about COVID.

On balance, I think he probably is telling the truth, not it's not absurd to think he's making it up, because that's his thing.

Phoebas

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

I hope Biden and moderator are being tested, Trump was on that stage spitting and raging like a rabid dog for quite some time.

Trump gives it to Biden. Biden dies. Trump wins the Presidency.

PM me to discuss terms for the movie rights.

Hurrache

Phoebas wrote: »

This could play well for him.

If he gets through it unscathed then he's the strongman President who personally fought Covid and won.
If it flattens him then he gets a sympathy vote with lots of opportunities for his opponents to fail to read the country right by attacking a man downed with a terrible illness.

It's a curve ball that could go anywhere.

That's how I see it too, although a bit less on the attacking a downed man, I don't think there's much in that as he brought it upon himself and says it's not that bad.

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Trump 2 days ago at the debate



I hope Biden and moderator are being tested, Trump was on that stage spitting and raging like a rabid dog for quite some time.

Biden has been getting tests regularly as it is.

Inquitus

Phoebas wrote: »

Trump gives it to Boden. Boden dies. Trump wins the Presidency.

PM me to discuss terms for the movie rights.

In the case of Biden's death the Democrats would pick a new nominee. This article covers the possibility of the death of a candidate quite well.

https://teachinghistory.org/history-content/ask-a-historian/20431

Inquitus

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Hmm what happens to the millions of ballots already cast?

Too late to change the ballot names, vote Trump get Pence or whoever, vote Biden, get Bernie, Harris or whoever.

Inquitus

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Hmm in a real democracy that sounds about right, but would the republicans not scream voter fraud, drag whole thing into supreme court where they win the presidency? or am i missing something.

I think there is little doubt the death of a presidential candidate at this point would cause a shítshow.

Quin_Dub

Hard to know the reaction to this.

The Markets dropped overnight on the news , will have to see what happens at the open.

In terms of Voter reaction , not really sure this has major implications yet.

If he doesn't experience any major symptoms and is back on the campaign trail in ~2 weeks time , are any voters really going to change their minds on that basis?

I'm not sure him not really being impacted helps/hinders him that much for now.

Obviously if he does actually get sick , particularly to the point of hospitalisation then that is a much much bigger deal.

People could decide not to vote for him because they think he won't be able for the job - And given the sort of things we are now hearing about the long term debilitating effects that Covid is having on people in terms of stamina & energy etc. that wouldn't be an unreasonable reaction.

Equally though , it could have a rallying effect , but again really hard to know.

The next few weeks are going to be weird.

valoren

I find it very suspicious. His performance in the “debate” was celebrated as a disaster. The headline from it was his failure to condemn white supremacists and a sub headline was that he “misspoke”…again. Either he won’t condemn white supremacy or he can’t provide a coherent and articulate answer in a debate. Needless to say it would benefit Trump to lay low for a while and a deflective story would be welcome to bury the above headlines. I believe Hope Hicks has tested positive for Covid-19 and that the Trump campaign have chosen to leverage this to have Trump lay low. Having Melania on that ticket as well will lend the necessary credibility. He will now have a legitimate sick note to duck, dodge and avoid further debates which he is incapable of performing adequately in. His bullying interruption antics back fired on him during the first and no coherent or relatable messages emerged from his performance.

Trump is a narcissist and I believe this is him welcoming a chance to play the victim. He will wait to bask in the attention this will give him, make note of which World leaders will come out and express their sympathy and concerns. He will have thrown a curve ball to his political opponents and critics who if they continue to attack and deride his Presidency then they can easily be smeared as uncaring, unpatriotic and downright nasty people for choosing to criticize a floored and recovering President. Let’s just say that the POTUS having a viral infection that has killed over 200,000 Americans is pretty sensitive information. You’d expect the appropriate channels of government to be informed privately before making official announcements and I presume this all happened in the background. It strikes me as particularly odd that this major and critical news was flouted/Twittered publicly so fast and so quickly after the disastrous debate and critical aftermath. It leaves me questioning the veracity of the true diagnosis his doctor has given. There is precedence there with his unscheduled emergency trip to hospital which was just for “routine tests” last year. It’s no stretch to imagine this diagnosis is a false one considering that. I’ll take interest in watching a narcissist leverage this for all the attention and sympathy it will generate in the weeks ahead and I’ll patiently wait for his inevitable and miraculous “recovery”. See? Covid-19, not a big deal! VoteTrump2020 etc. Desperate times call for desperate measures. If the only thing keeping you from getting indicted and charged is your position as POTUS then wouldn't you be willing to drum up anything to protect that position? This is Trump swinging for the fences/throwing a Hail Mary pass. When someone has told over 20k verified lies while in office then, you reap what you sow, and you invite suspicion in lieu of any sympathy.

Quin_Dub

valoren wrote: »

I find it very suspicious. His performance in the “debate” was celebrated as a disaster. The headline from it was his failure to condemn white supremacists and a sub headline was that he “misspoke”…again. Either he won’t condemn white supremacy or he can’t provide a coherent and articulate answer in a debate. Needless to say it would benefit Trump to lay low for a while and a deflective story would be welcome to bury the above headlines. I believe Hope Hicks has tested positive for Covid-19 and that the Trump campaign have chosen to leverage this to have Trump lay low. Having Melania on that ticket as well will lend the necessary credibility. He will now have a legitimate sick note to duck, dodge and avoid further debates which he is incapable of performing adequately in. His bullying interruption antics back fired on him during the first and no coherent or relatable messages emerged from his performance.

Trump is a narcissist and I believe this is him welcoming a chance to play the victim. He will wait to bask in the attention this will give him, make note of which World leaders will come out and express their sympathy and concerns. He will have thrown a curve ball to his political opponents and critics who if they continue to attack and deride his Presidency then they can easily be smeared as uncaring, unpatriotic and downright nasty people for choosing to criticize a floored and recovering President. Let’s just say that the POTUS having a viral infection that has killed over 200,000 Americans is pretty sensitive information. You’d expect the appropriate channels of government to be informed privately before making official announcements and I presume this all happened in the background. It strikes me as particularly odd that this major and critical news was flouted/Twittered publicly so fast and so quickly after the disastrous debate and critical aftermath. It leaves me questioning the veracity of the true diagnosis his doctor has given. There is precedence there with his unscheduled emergency trip to hospital which was just for “routine tests” last year. It’s no stretch to imagine this diagnosis is a false one considering that. I’ll take interest in watching a narcissist leverage this for all the attention and sympathy it will generate in the weeks ahead and I’ll patiently wait for his inevitable and miraculous “recovery”. See? Covid-19, not a big deal! VoteTrump2020 etc. Desperate times call for desperate measures. If the only thing keeping you from getting indicted and charged is your position as POTUS then wouldn't you be willing to drum up anything to protect that position? This is Trump swinging for the fences/throwing a Hail Mary pass. When someone has told over 20k verified lies while in office then, you reap what you sow, and you invite suspicion in lieu of any sympathy.

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Mod Note

Let's drop the conspiracy theories. There's another forum for that. If you think someone is lying about having COVID-19, you'll need to something to substantiate it beyond mere speculation.

##Mod Note##

Literally just had a Mod Note on this.

Unless & until there is actual evidence , let's park the speculation please.

Quin_Dub

Just theorising on a worst case scenario.

What would happen if Trump (or Biden) were to win the Election but dies (or have to retire due to ill health) before the Electoral college vote (December 12th I think?)

In the case of Trump , Pence would become POTUS at least until January 20th , but what would happen to the Electoral college vote if the person was no longer there to take the post for the next 4 years?

I've read a bunch of stuff about contested EC votes etc. etc. but don't think I've ever seen if a scenario like that is accounted for in the rules.