US Presidential Election 2020

BonnieSituation

FortuneChip wrote: »

Just seemed like a load of question dodging last night.

Rattling off their monologues, rather than answering the questions, from both parties.

Mike Pence looks like the stock villain to a long delayed direct-to-DVD sequel to an 80s/90s action movie.

As mentioned, this won't have much of an impact on anything anyway.

This is all a VP should be aiming for. The onus was on Pence to knock it out of the park given how far behind they are in the polls, and he didn't manage it.

Job done as far as the Dems should be concerned.

Hyperbollix

I think Pence is in many ways worse than Trump. Trump at least has family history / psychological reasons why he's a headcase.

Pence is just pure opportunist. The obsequious fawning to the totems of US culture is stomach churning. The sad truth is that for tens of millions of voters, an old white man with a square jaw and a steely Clint Eastwood squint who blathers on about God, Country and Military is more than enough.

Professor Moriarty

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Trump is down to his lowest chances now (and still falling), the debates and the covid debacle really not done him any favours. And the later has not yet filtered down thru the polls.

538 forecast down to 16/100 chance https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/

economist forecast down 8/10 chance https://projects.economist.com/us-2020-forecast/president

Fantastic.

everlast75

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Trump is down to his lowest chances now (and still falling), the debates and the covid debacle really not done him any favours. And the later has not yet filtered down thru the polls.

538 forecast down to 16/100 chance https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/

economist forecast down 8/10 chance https://projects.economist.com/us-2020-forecast/president

A thought experiment.

Say with 2 weeks to go. Trump is facing an historic defeat. A SCOTUS intervention is impossible. What does he do?

Is it *possible* that he steps away from the ticket?

There is no easy choice for a narcissist. Run and lose by the biggest margin ever or step aside which is effectively admitting defeat.

Like I said - just something to contemplate.

duploelabs

everlast75 wrote: »

A thought experiment.

Say with 2 weeks to go. Trump is facing an historic defeat. A SCOTUS intervention is impossible. What does he do?

Is it *possible* that he steps away from the ticket?

There is no easy choice for a narcissist. Run and lose by the biggest margin ever or step aside which is effectively admitting defeat.

Like I said - just something to contemplate.

That would entail Trump admitting fault, never will happen. The fall will be glorious

Zubeneschamali

He'll run, even a 1 in 10 shot is better than utter ruin.

But he'll do that grumpy toad folded-arms Mussolini pose all day long. Hilarious.

spacecoyote

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Trump is down to his lowest chances now (and still falling), the debates and the covid debacle really not done him any favours. And the later has not yet filtered down thru the polls.

538 forecast down to 16/100 chance https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/

economist forecast down 8/10 chance https://projects.economist.com/us-2020-forecast/president

538 did note on their commentary on the numbers that on Oct 17th, Hilary was at 88/100 before dropping to 71/100 by election day, so not done and dusted by any means.

But it is all trending the right way for him alright. Again the significant drop in undecided voters relative to 2016 is working against Trump being able to turn it around as much this time though

droidus

everlast75 wrote: »

Michael Steele was on MSNBC and his take was very good.

He said the both did what they needed to do. Pence pivoted like any politician would and Harris kept calm and made her points.

Wallace made the point that the VP debate only really matters when your Pres nomination bombed. Trump needed a boost from Pence and he got a steady performance. Biden won the first one so all Harris had to do was hammer the points home, which she did.

This debate didn't move the needle.

And for those saying it was boring - that's a nice change from 45 aggresively spewing BS.

This is fair, though the image most on display today (and let's face it, this is what will influence people if they are open to influence) is of a pink eyed robot with a fly on his head.

AbusesToilets

everlast75 wrote: »

She seems to poll very well, with record breaking funds raised when she was announced on the ticket.

It appears therefore that your last sentence is incorrect.

She was soundly beaten in her own state's primary

Zubeneschamali

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Vital for a black woman in the US not to seem angry or aggressive, even when provoked. This is why she responded to interruptions with a polite "Mr. VP, I'm Speaking" instead of "will you shut up man"

I didn't even remotely suggest that she needed to be angry nor aggressive.

She should be pounding Pence on policy issues.


Does anyone in this thread have any interest in actual policy issues, or is it all just tribal cobblers?

BonnieSituation

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't even remotely suggest that she needed to be angry nor aggressive.

She should be pounding Pence on policy issues

But the objective is to win an election in the morass that is American politics today.

No point talking about policy if it doesn't win the election.

Harris did what needed to be done last night. That's all.

Does anyone in this thread have any interest in actual policy issues, or is it all just tribal cobblers?

Is this your first US election?

Zubeneschamali

At their convention, the Republicans didn't even adopt a policy platform. They adopted a one-pager saying their policy is to support Trump.

What is the point in debating policy with that? Sure, Harris can hit Pence with a 100 page Democratic policy document, but neither the Republican party nor their voters care. This time out, they are the Whatever Trump Just Said Party.

Foxtrol

Throughout the debate Pence lived in a complete fantasy world regarding the questions asked and the facts on the ground in the US.

Given the biggest headline grabber was a fly this debate will be quickly forgotten.

Water John

A virtual debate has been proposed for the next one and Trump has rejected it. More than likely, no more debates.

Tell me how

Water John wrote: »

A virtual debate has been proposed for the next one and Trump has rejected it. More than likely, no more debates.

Suits Biden's campaign.

He should come out and say he's sorry if they won't happen, but this is another effect of Covid19 and how the administration allowed it to have a bigger impact than should have been the case.

everlast75

Tell me how wrote: »

Suits Biden's campaign.

He should come out and say he's sorry if they won't happen, but this is another effect of Covid19 and how the administration allowed it to have a bigger impact than should have been the case.

I don't know if Harris did say that the reason has had to use plexi glass was to protect herself from the guy installed to protect the American people from COVID and clearly he had failed.

Foxtrol

Trump just called into Fox Business and sounded absolutely terrible. Never heard him sounds so low energy. Steroids must be wearing off

Tell me how

Pete giving it straight to Fox News.

https://twitter.com/TheRickyDavila/status/1314051953790345219?s=19

everlast75

Three possible motives for objecting to virtual debate

1) he doesn't want to do the debate and he just wants to blame it on the format
2) he truly doesn't like the idea of being cut off if he acts the a hole again
3) he wants to expose Biden to it. This sounds fanciful but not beyond the realms of possibility

Tell me how

everlast75 wrote: »

Three possible motives for objecting to virtual debate

1) he doesn't want to do the debate and he just wants to blame it on the format
2) he truly doesn't like the idea of being cut off if he acts the a hole again
3) he wants to expose Biden to it. This sounds fanciful but not beyond the realms of possibility

Its for that last reason that I am pleased if they do not debate in person again.

Just don't want to contemplate a situation where Trump gets Covid and recovers in a seemingly straightforward manner, goes to another debate after which Biden gets it and is pretty much incapacitated for the final week, leading to a Trump victory.

Harry Palmr

Foxtrol wrote: »

Trump just called into Fox Business and sounded absolutely terrible. Never heard him sounds so low energy. Steroids must be wearing off

It wouldn't be a shock if Covid was suppressed successfully but the phalanx of drugs laid him low instead! He is a walking lab at the moment.

BonnieSituation

He's gotten his out now. That'll please him. I think Biden should empty chair him.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Pete giving it straight to Fox News.

https://twitter.com/TheRickyDavila/status/1314051953790345219?s=19

Does Peter mention any particular policies in the extended cut?

BonnieSituation

Deleted User wrote: »

Does Peter mention any particular policies in the extended cut?

Stop. You expect Pete to go on Fox News, accept the ridiculous premise of the presenter, ignore it and then talk about Medicare for All?

Zubeneschamali

everlast75 wrote: »

Three possible motives for objecting to virtual debate

4) he is gravely, possibly terminally ill, and a debate is out of the question.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

Does Peter mention any particular policies in the extended cut?

Is Pete on any ticket for this election?

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Does Peter mention any particular policies in the extended cut?

He said all he needed to say, the deer in the headlights look on the Fox presenters faces shows he hit a home run.

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

Does Peter mention any particular policies in the extended cut?

He spoke about how Trump ran away from making a stimulus deal to help the American people, hitting Trump's hypocrisy about elements supporting illegal workers while his own companies hire them regularly (and the illegal workers pay more taxes).

This morning Fox & Friends had him on again and it looks like Steve Doocy's heart is breaking when Pete takes more shots at Trump for chickening out of the debate.

Pete is very good at this, they should line him up on every Fox show from now until election day.

https://twitter.com/nerdypursuit/status/1313999316521017345?s=20

https://twitter.com/PeteButtigieg/status/1314212949255319556?s=20

BonnieSituation

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Stop. You expect Pete to go on Fox News, accept the ridiculous premise of the presenter, ignore it and then talk about Medicare for All?

Well, no, because he doesn't believe in Medicare for All. But it's a great opportunity to spread his message.

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

He spoke about how Trump ran away from making a stimulus deal to help the American people, hitting Trump's hypocrisy about elements supporting illegal workers while his own companies hire them regularly (and the illegal workers pay more taxes).

So he did talk about policy...

Thanks for the reply, Foxtrol.

Much more useful than the other snarky one liner replies pretending like being on Fox isn't a great opportunity to try turn a few heads.

Brian?

I love the fact they've sent Pete out on the attack. He's bullet proof in his popularity at home and free to speak his mind.

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

So he did talk about policy...

Thanks for the reply, Foxtrol.

Much more useful than the other snarky one liner replies pretending like being on Fox isn't a great opportunity to try turn a few heads.

It is far more impactful than Trump and most of his campaign sticking with shows that only his base watch.

Itssoeasy

I’m catching up on the debate situation and it wasn’t a shock that it was going to be virtual(I mean it’s asking for trouble for anyone to be in a room with trump) and that trump wasn’t okay with that. I see that he called Kamala Harris a monster on national TV which always helps bring voters to your side.

And to hat trick is that he’s now saying that gold star families possibly gave him covid which would be a perfect bookend to his presidency in that he attacked a gold star family in the khans during the campaign last time and now he’s blaming them for him getting covid. His campaign team must be sitting slack jawed watching him just do the political equivalent of the Hindenburg disaster. It’s almost like he wants to lose the election.

BonnieSituation

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well, no, because he doesn't believe in Medicare for All. But it's a great opportunity to spread his message.

Again missing the WHOLE point. Quite a feat.

Foxtrol

Biden now really putting it up to Trump by offering to push the debate back a week and doing his own one on the current date.

The townhall format is one that Trump really isn't suited to, especially when Biden tends to do so well at them.

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1314234120776679427?s=20

BonnieSituation

That's the right way to go about it.

RickBlaine

Brian? wrote: »

I love the fact they've sent Pete out on the attack. He's bullet proof in his popularity at home and free to speak his mind.

I wonder could we be looking at a Kamala / Pete ticket in 2024?

pixelburp

RickBlaine wrote: »

I wonder could we be looking at a Kamala / Pete ticket in 2024?

I think America has another 20 years before its demographics could accept a gay VP, let alone president. I don't even think it's a simple coastal Vs inland state, progressive Vs conservative thing either, as homophobia crosses plenty of racial boundaries.

L1011

pixelburp wrote: »

I think America has another 20 years before its demographics could accept a gay VP, let alone president. I don't even think it's a simple coastal Vs inland state, progressive Vs conservative thing either, as homophobia crosses plenty of racial boundaries.

Should Biden not make it through a term and Buttigeig is already VP in 2024 it'd be rather a different story.

Quin_Dub

L1011 wrote: »

Should Biden not make it through a term and Buttigeig is already VP in 2024 it'd be rather a different story.

Just on that , if a VP does have to step up how is the new VP chosen?

Are they just picked or is there a vote - even just a House/Senate vote?

MadYaker

Haha, what will Trump do now? Id say he'll go for it. What choice does he have?

pixelburp

My question too. Why is it assumed Buttigieg is the next in line for the VP role? Like I said, the guy needs some political sea legs outside of Mayorship TBH and is better served going for Congress or the Senate first. But I really think his orientation can't be underestimated in terms of swing state support (IMO natch)

L1011

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Just on that , if a VP does have to step up how is the new VP chosen?

Are they just picked or is there a vote - even just a House/Senate vote?

President nominates, both houses confirm

Happened when Agnew quit under Nixon (replacing with Ford) then again when Nixon quit and Ford stepped up (Rockerfeller replacing)

This procedure came in after Kennedy, since then there cannot be no VP except while appointing a replacement.

If both went before a replacement could be arranged; its the line of succession and Pelosi would take over.

Brian?

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Just on that , if a VP does have to step up how is the new VP chosen?

Are they just picked or is there a vote - even just a House/Senate vote?

The president picks them. Done.

An Ciarraioch

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Just on that , if a VP does have to step up how is the new VP chosen?

Are they just picked or is there a vote - even just a House/Senate vote?

When Agnew resigned, it seems the Congressional Republicans essentially picked Ford, who was then ratified by the Senate and House:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ford#Vice_President_(1973–1974)

Realt Dearg Sec

pixelburp wrote: »

My question too. Why is it assumed Buttigieg is the next in line for the VP role? Like I said, the guy needs some political sea legs outside of Mayorship TBH and is better served going for Congress or the Senate first. But I really think his orientation can't be underestimated in terms of swing state support (IMO natch)

Pete's problem in terms of stepping up is Indiana. The only Democratic party of northern Indiana is the north west including South bend, over to Gary, the extended south Chicago area. But that's all gerrymandered into several otherwise rural districts. There's also no real hope of a democratic senator there. So the stepping stones for him are mayor of south bend, to high profile cabinet position in a Biden administration, to being on the ticket.

I lived in South bend when Pete was mayor (actually I knew his father, who was a great Joyce scholar among other things) and he did some good work there but he was not perfect by any means, and to me he is a very milquetoast establishment Democrat, but without the broad appeal of someone like Biden. Unless he gets a chance to prove himself as, say, a secretary of state, I don't see how he gains enough trust to become a serious presidential candidate.

AbusesToilets

RickBlaine wrote: »

I wonder could we be looking at a Kamala / Pete ticket in 2024?

Given he's another in a long line of Corporate Democrats, devoid of any ideology beyond globalism, it's entirely possible.

A perfect empty suit, with just enough of a minority sheen to him.

Tell me how

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Given he's another in a long line of Corporate Democrats, devoid of any ideology beyond globalism, it's entirely possible.

A perfect empty suit, with just enough of a minority sheen to him.

And still better than the egotistical failed business man with a penchant for white supremacy.

AbusesToilets

Tell me how wrote: »

And still better than the egotistical failed business man with a penchant for white supremacy.

What an achievement.

Foxtrol

Tell me how wrote: »

And still better than the egotistical failed business man with a penchant for white supremacy.

And better than self proclaimed socialists, who hold purity above actually achieving things that help people