US Presidential Election 2020

BonnieSituation

You can even see the uptick in anti left wing ranting in Ireland as well from precisely the people who would benefit most from social democracy.

The CA thread on the election the other night was an absolute car crash and a microcosm of political engagement these days. The only saving grace for Ireland is their laziness and our voting system.

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The 60Minutes episode with all 4 candidates is on CBS now.

I have the CBS app on my Roku, so it should be easily found on other players and the interwebs.

Itssoeasy

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You can even see the uptick in anti left wing ranting in Ireland as well from precisely the people who would benefit most from social democracy.

The CA thread on the election the other night was an absolute car crash and a microcosm of political engagement these days. The only saving grace for Ireland is their laziness and our voting system.

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The 60Minutes episode with all 4 candidates is on CBS now.

I have the CBS app on my Roku, so it should be easily found on other players and the interwebs.

Download the podcast which is what I do. Great to wake up to on a Monday. It’s routinely great stuff.

BonnieSituation

Monday is spent these days dealing with my post NFL hangover. Waking up to 60minutes is not gonna be part of the curer just yet.

Though, this week I might change that. Cheers.

EDIT: I watched the whole programme. Wow. It's frankly amazing that Trump has any supporters at all when you see that and what he's up against in Biden and Harris.

It genuinely is a must watch for everyone.

TomOnBoard

Igotadose wrote: »

Hey, Trump! Your boss sez cut the Hunter Biden crap! https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN27A0TA?__twitter_impression=true

Putin has seen that the 'useful idiot' Manchurian Candidate can't be rescued and is cutting his strings. Russia sees that Biden will be the next POTUS and is trying to curry favour by exposing the Giuliani/Bannon and NY Post BS for what it is- a crass attempt to use the alleged antics of a sadly drug- addicted son to inculpate a loving father just because he cares about his son and didn't ever cut him loose when the son was at his lowest.

Any one of the Trump children would happily trade their father for one who cares like Joe!

Putin's distancing comes just days after Netanyahu refused to respond to Trump's crass attempt to belittle Biden at that stupid Israel/Sudan BS 'peace deal' announcement in the Oval last week.

Trump's goose is cooked! He's a busted flush! All the leeches and parasites that have clung to him like pond scum are going to be falling away now. Maybe actually, there is a God!

everlast75

stefanovich wrote: »

$400 billion worldwide in 2018 in fossil fuel subsidies. Under 200 billion for renewables. None of these alternatives can scale up to the level we need. And the amount of subsidies needed to make them viable as a percentage of energy they produce is significantly more.

Renewables are more expensive and not scalable. A dead end.

I have a sneaky feeling that if Trump was supportive of renewable enery, then so would you...

everlast75

Just in case anyone missed it, this is how the 60 mins interview ended

https://twitter.com/PoliticusSarah/status/1320519094295240712?s=19

60 minutes has a massive audience, especially amongst seniors and I can only speculate how poorly this will resonate with them. Perhaps they may feel bad for him, like they do with their 4 year old grandson who throws a strop.

"Petulant, whiny and a temper tantrum. Awww... It's just like having little Timmy here for a sleep over when he's tired and won't go for his nap".

This can't be a good look for him.

On a side now, how anyone can consider this bloke an alpha male or a tough guy is absolutely and utterly beyond me.

ancapailldorcha

Please do not drag the thread off topic. Posts deleted.

Gunmonkey

everlast75 wrote: »

Just in case anyone missed it, this is how the 60 mins interview ended

https://twitter.com/PoliticusSarah/status/1320519094295240712?s=19

60 minutes has a massive audience, especially amongst seniors and I can only speculate how poorly this will resonate with them. Perhaps they may feel bad for him, like they do with their 4 year old grandson who throws a strop.

"Petulant, whiny and a temper tantrum. Awww... It's just like having little Timmy here for a sleep over when he's tired and won't go for his nap".

This can't be a good look for him.

On a side now, how anyone can consider this bloke an alpha male or a tough guy is absolutely and utterly beyond me.

Jesus. My sister has been staying here with my 8 month old niece....and Ive seen less tantrums from her in several months than in those 2 minutes!

What a cretinous series of lines from a colossal child.

Itssoeasy

I listened to president trump and Vice President pence on 60 minutes from last night and pence is more dangerous than trump in that he is able to dress up horrible policies and their response to the pandemic in a calm way and it sounds a considered response. Trump has none of that “skill” pence has and that was embarrassing to listen to. He’s turned the 2016 plan of amplifying others perceived grievances into the 2020 of his pity party and how mean and unfair everyone is to him. Is he 74 or 7.4 years old ?

everlast75

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I listened to president trump and Vice President pence on 60 minutes from last night and pence is more dangerous than trump in that he is able to dress up horrible policies and their response to the pandemic in a calm way and it sounds a considered response. Trump has none of that “skill” pence has and that was embarrassing to listen to. He’s turned the 2016 plan of amplifying others perceived grievances into the 2020 of his pity party and how mean and unfair everyone is to him. Is he 74 or 7.4 years old ?

Thankfully Pence has all the charisma of a wet sock. He has none of the bombastic car crash ridiculousness of Trump so cannot host rallies which for a limited time had a car crash type appeal.

He is a snakey politician, no doubt, but there's a reason why he held his own and could not do better til Trump tagged him along to muster evangelical support.

If Trump/Pence lose in November, he will slink back from whence he came IMHO.

looksee

So, what are they at? Why choose this particular time to say what we all know has been Trump's policy all along?

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/26/politics/election-2020-donald-trump-joe-biden-pandemic/index.html

The White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows has said, effectively, that there is no point trying to contain the pandemic and basically they are not going to even try. They will concentrate on theraputics and vaccines, but meanwhile life - or death and illness - will go on.

LuckyLloyd

looksee wrote: »

So, what are they at? Why choose this particular time to say what we all know has been Trump's policy all along?

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/26/politics/election-2020-donald-trump-joe-biden-pandemic/index.html

The White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows has said, effectively, that there is no point trying to contain the pandemic and basically they are not going to even try. They will concentrate on theraputics and vaccines, but meanwhile life - or death and illness - will go on.

Because they’re getting hammered from all angles and are in desperation mode. May as well just go full bore ‘let life go on’ and see if it sticks.

everlast75

looksee wrote: »

So, what are they at? Why choose this particular time to say what we all know has been Trump's policy all along?

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/26/politics/election-2020-donald-trump-joe-biden-pandemic/index.html

The White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows has said, effectively, that there is no point trying to contain the pandemic and basically they are not going to even try. They will concentrate on theraputics and vaccines, but meanwhile life - or death and illness - will go on.

He can't argue that they are trying to contain it, while Trump continues with his rallies.

Those two facts are diametrically opposite.

Therefore all he can say is that they are "doing their best" to treat it.

letowski

I don’t think we will see anymore of these long form hour long interviews from Trump going forward. That 60 Minutes interview meltdown came from scars of past calamities with Chris Wallace and Johnathan Swan. Once the interviewer has time to dig into a topic and press Trump, the more irrational, angry and petulant Trump gets. They are inevitably going to end in disaster so I doubt Trump’s team are going to agree to anymore of these interview formats going forward.

salmocab

letowski wrote: »

I don’t think we will see anymore of these long form hour long interviews from Trump going forward. That 60 Minutes interview meltdown came from scars of past calamities with Chris Wallace and Johnathan Swan. Once the interviewer has time to dig into a topic and press Trump, the more irrational, angry and petulant Trump gets. They are inevitably going to end in disaster so I doubt Trump’s team are going to agree to anymore of these interview formats going forward.

He ran his entire presidency on Twitter with whatever amount of characters that allows. He doesnt do follow up just the initial sound bite.

TomOnBoard

looksee wrote: »

So, what are they at? Why choose this particular time to say what we all know has been Trump's policy all along?

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/26/politics/election-2020-donald-trump-joe-biden-pandemic/index.html

The White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows has said, effectively, that there is no point trying to contain the pandemic and basically they are not going to even try. They will concentrate on theraputics and vaccines, but meanwhile life - or death and illness - will go on.

This is a final surrender to Covid that comes after the 2nd massive breakout in the White House (Pence's advisors/team). And now Pence is out campaigning like a modern Typhoid Mary when, under current guidelines, he should be in quarantine. Its a total capitulation and a failure of public health policy.

Muahahaha

yeah dont think we'll be seeing any more long form interviews with Trump with only 8 days to go now. I can just imagine Kayleigh in the background weeks ago telling him he has to do them to connect with voters outside his base but then each and every one he did has turned into a car crash, Id say she is cringing at the disaster he has been in that format.

weisses

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I listened to president trump and Vice President pence on 60 minutes from last night and pence is more dangerous than trump in that he is able to dress up horrible policies and their response to the pandemic in a calm way and it sounds a considered response. Trump has none of that “skill” pence has and that was embarrassing to listen to. He’s turned the 2016 plan of amplifying others perceived grievances into the 2020 of his pity party and how mean and unfair everyone is to him. Is he 74 or 7.4 years old ?

That's why I was never in favor of an article 25 procedure

FrostyJack

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I listened to president trump and Vice President pence on 60 minutes from last night and pence is more dangerous than trump in that he is able to dress up horrible policies and their response to the pandemic in a calm way and it sounds a considered response. Trump has none of that “skill” pence has and that was embarrassing to listen to. He’s turned the 2016 plan of amplifying others perceived grievances into the 2020 of his pity party and how mean and unfair everyone is to him. Is he 74 or 7.4 years old ?

Wait until 2024 or 2028 when you see who runs, if there is a person who can put on a show like Trump but not have his baggage and is more deliberate in his actions and words like Pence, the GOP now know they can get away with anything. If he was doing everything out in the open and on twitter, there would be less of a backlash. If Biden wins, no matter what he does come 2024 it won't be enough for the Trumpers. Look at the backlash in 2016 against Obama, he apparently had the economy in the ditch but the day Trump took over it was amazing.

droidus

OTOH, if Trump loses, and loses big (which is looking increasingly possible), the GOP will almost certainly fracture in the wake of that result and various bitter recriminations and investigations that follow, and for various reasons (demographics not least of all), they may never regroup.

Im sure they will go on to cause huge damage at state level, and possibly in the Senate, but the end of Trump may also mean the end of the Republicans as a cohesive national political force.

BonnieSituation

letowski wrote: »

I don’t think we will see anymore of these long form hour long interviews from Trump going forward. That 60 Minutes interview meltdown came from scars of past calamities with Chris Wallace and Johnathan Swan. Once the interviewer has time to dig into a topic and press Trump, the more irrational, angry and petulant Trump gets. They are inevitably going to end in disaster so I doubt Trump’s team are going to agree to anymore of these interview formats going forward.

We're only a week out from the election. There was never going to be any more long form interviews after the 60minutes one.

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Having watched the clips during the week, I could never have imagined it was gonna be even worse again on a full viewing.

While I don't like to subscribe to calling things until the fat lady has invoiced us for the performance, surely he's done now?

Listened to about 5min of his rally in PA just there. All the hits about China and the WTO and the WHO being wheeled out. How anyone could ever vite for him was always beyond me, but that anyone would still be considering it, is just dumbfounding.

Igotadose

droidus wrote: »

OTOH, if Trump loses, and loses big (which is looking increasingly possible), the GOP will almost certainly fracture in the wake of that result and various bitter recriminations and investigations that follow, and for various reasons (demographics not least of all), they may never regroup.

Im sure they will go on to cause huge damage at state level, and possibly in the Senate, but the end of Trump may also mean the end of the Republicans as a cohesive national political force.

Would that be a loss? It's not like the GOP hasn't had its opportunities in the last generation - it has. And again, an inept GOP president will depart, leaving the economy in a shambles and the US prestige in the world at a low point, with nothing improved on 4 years ago. Might be time for the GOP to just go away as it is currently, the party of Trump and idiot Teabaggers. Maybe splinter off a "conservative" party to draw on the force-birthers balance-the-budget types, and a liberal party that's pro-immigration pro-globalism, and a couple of moderate parties, so both the Democratic and Republican parties go away.

If the GOP goes away or is splintered, but the Democratic party stays as is, that's not good either. You need balance, what the US has, has become unbalanced.

Rjd2

Igotadose wrote: »

Maybe splinter off a "conservative" party to draw on the force-birthers balance-the-budget types, and a liberal party that's pro-immigration pro-globalism, and a couple of moderate parties, so both the Democratic and Republican parties go away.
.

That's pretty much what the Democrats are under Biden though.

If you are a suburban republican who is liberal on social issues, somewhat fiscally conservative and are ok with oversea interventionism then Biden is the man for you. Heck the likes of Harris, Pete won't concern them either.



Those are the type of voters that have migrated from the GOP over last few years and the Dems have gone out of their way to attract them and to be fair its looks like a winning strategy.
Realistically the GOP have a serious issue, their donors for most part are libertarian free markets devotees, while their base under Trump is definitely more pro big government and conservative on social issues.

droidus

Igotadose wrote: »

Would that be a loss? It's not like the GOP hasn't had its opportunities in the last generation - it has. And again, an inept GOP president will depart, leaving the economy in a shambles and the US prestige in the world at a low point, with nothing improved on 4 years ago. Might be time for the GOP to just go away as it is currently, the party of Trump and idiot Teabaggers. Maybe splinter off a "conservative" party to draw on the force-birthers balance-the-budget types, and a liberal party that's pro-immigration pro-globalism, and a couple of moderate parties, so both the Democratic and Republican parties go away.

No, its hugely positive. The GOP is an anti-democratic, anti majoritarian consortium of hate groups, and with the current climate, environmental and nuclear proliferation crises threatening to end organised human existence on Earth, they are perhaps the most dangerous political organisation in human history.

The sooner they are destroyed the better.

eire4

droidus wrote: »

No, its hugely positive. The GOP is an anti-democratic, anti majoritarian consortium of hate groups, and with the current climate, environmental and nuclear proliferation crises threatening to end organised human existence on Earth, they are perhaps the most dangerous political organisation in human history.

The sooner they are destroyed the better.

I totally agree with that concise but accurate description of what the current Republican party is for the most part. I would say though I don't seem this big break up happening I just see them lurching ever further to the right and authoritarianism. This is why they are stacking not just the supreme court but lower level courts as well as much as they can to maintain power via non democratic means with some patina of legitimacy via the lackeys they have the courts stacked with.

Itssoeasy

So the Fox News election night coverage could be a bit different then they’d planned because several of their on air staff were in contact with a person on a private flight back from the last presidential debate in nashville and are quarantining.

droidus

eire4 wrote: »

I totally agree with that concise but accurate description of what the current Republican party is for the most part. I would say though I don't seem this big break up happening I just see them lurching ever further to the right and authoritarianism. This is why they are stacking not just the supreme court but lower level courts as well as much as they can to maintain power via non democratic means with some patina of legitimacy via the lackeys they have the courts stacked with.

Well it's predicated on the idea that this election will see a massive repudiation of Trumpism, with Biden picking up 350+ EC votes, possibly edging over 400 in the most optimistic scenarios, and the dems keeping the house and taking the senate.

If that happens, I think the game will be up and many of the factors within the party that led to Trump's nomination: conspiracism, racism, extremism etc... will lead to a major conflict with the more moderate conservatism embodied by people like the Lincoln project and a split of some kind, leaving neither side with enough support to command national victories.

If/when this is resolved in 8 or ten years or so then the demographic shift alone should then have made it impossible for them to ever fully recover at the national level.

eire4

droidus wrote: »

Well it's predicated on the idea that this election will see a massive repudiation of Trumpism, with Biden picking up 350+ EC votes, possibly edging over 400 in the most optimistic scenarios, and the dems keeping the house and taking the senate.

If that happens, I think the game will be up and many of the factors within the party that led to Trump's nomination: conspiracism, racism, extremism etc... will lead to a major conflict with the more moderate conservatism embodied by people like the Lincoln project and a split of some kind, leaving neither side with enough support to command national victories.

If/when this is resolved in 8 or ten years or so then the demographic shift alone should then have made it impossible for them to ever fully recover at the national level.

I get what your saying and it is possible. I just don't think it will happen. Would be great if it did though for sure.

Water John

The Dems in power need to be kept honest too. A lack of a threat would make them useless.

It's hard to know for sure what's going to happen with either party after the election because of the system in the US. When you think about the fact that you register to vote with a note of which party you identify with you start to see the problem. Just had a quick look there and even in what's thought of as an absolute blowout in 1984 was only 59-40. On 53% turnout. The hero of the GOP, thought of as the most popular, uniting figures on the right won his biggest victories getting around 31% of eligible voters to vote for him.
Then you have things like the FEC being controlled by the parties. It's not even decided on presidential election votes or states or congress, it's just 50-50 between the two parties. At the state level there's the same nonsense, boards are set up to draw congressional districts with nominees from the parties.
Basically no matter what happens neither party is going to fall apart or disappear because both of them are basically the state and the structures are completely intertwined from the city/county level right the way to national. And no matter how bad the minority at any particular time behave they will be ready to take over when things out of the government's control make the economy worse.

droidus

Water John wrote: »

The Dems in power need to be kept honest too. A lack of a threat would make them useless.

I think the threat will increasingly come from the left, especially when climate starts to bite.

Tell me how

Water John wrote: »

The Dems in power need to be kept honest too. A lack of a threat would make them useless.

Not only that, but if they don't perform adequately, it'll embolden the right to say 'We told you so'

The next regressive conservative President could well have the cop on to smile and sound empathetic while still trying to undermine progressive ideals.

We've been lucky that Trump's desire to roll back regulations and diplomatic engagement was matched only be his incompetency in alienating so many on his own side.

Brussels Sprout

droidus wrote: »

OTOH, if Trump loses, and loses big (which is looking increasingly possible), the GOP will almost certainly fracture in the wake of that result and various bitter recriminations and investigations that follow, and for various reasons (demographics not least of all), they may never regroup.

Im sure they will go on to cause huge damage at state level, and possibly in the Senate, but the end of Trump may also mean the end of the Republicans as a cohesive national political force.

I wouldn't be so certain of that. In recent times when the GOP has faced adversity its reaction has been to dial up the rhetoric, default to cynical tactics and increase partisanship.

After the 2008 election the Republicans were decimated on the national stage. Obama had convincingly defeated McCain, they lost 21 seats in the House, to now have a 77 seat deficit and they were down to only 40 seats in the Senate.

The immediate outcome of that was for Mitch McConnell to come up with the tactic of opposing absolutely everything at all times and also The Tea Party magically sprung up.

I don't know if the GOP have it in them for any serious self-reflection. Their tried and tested tactics have always worked for them in the past so I assume that they will just default to them again in the future.

Water John

Circumstances look like pushing Biden into more radical action than his history would indicate.
The Dems need to implement a whole raft of radical ideas within the two years if they have control of the Senate. This includes a whole reevaluation of voting districts. This to be done by an independent commission. I know their are limits on what can be done federally as opposed to state level.

Rjd2

droidus wrote: »

Well it's predicated on the idea that this election will see a massive repudiation of Trumpism, with Biden picking up 350+ EC votes, possibly edging over 400 in the most optimistic scenarios, and the dems keeping the house and taking the senate.

If that happens, I think the game will be up and many of the factors within the party that led to Trump's nomination: conspiracism, racism, extremism etc... will lead to a major conflict with the more moderate conservatism embodied by people like the Lincoln project and a split of some kind, leaving neither side with enough support to command national victories.

If/when this is resolved in 8 or ten years or so then the demographic shift alone should then have made it impossible for them to ever fully recover at the national level.

What is this "moderate conservatism " embodied by the Lincoln Project?:D

A group who for the most part supported the Iraq war, along with prominent never trumpers such as David Frum who not only championed that and abysmal trickle down economics and total devotion to the wonderful "free market"?


Trump would not have found a path to victory if the GOP and those "moderate conservatives" had not ruined so many lives over the decades they were in charge. It's utterly horrific the numerous catastrophes they presided over.


Their are a lot of Never Trumpers trying to rewrite history, eulogising about how great the Republican party was before Trump came along and how supposedly decent they were.

Please don't fall for it, their brand of politics is just as horrific as Trumpism, only difference is the likes of Bill Kristol, David Frum etc all scrub up much better than Trump.

Rjd2

Water John wrote: »

The Dems in power need to be kept honest too. A lack of a threat would make them useless.

Yep a nothing sort of presidency from Biden leads to a Tucker Carlson type figure in 2024 running and maybe even winning.

eire4

Rjd2 wrote: »

What is this "moderate conservatism " embodied by the Lincoln Project?:D

A group who for the most part supported the Iraq war, along with prominent never trumpers such as David Frum who not only championed that and abysmal trickle down economics?

The "moderate conservatism" which set the middle east on fire, caused the financial crisis and ultimately paved the way for Trump.

Trump would not have found a path to victory if the GOP and those "moderate conservatives" had ruined so many lives over the decades they were in charge.


Their are a lot of Never Trumpers trying to rewrite history, eulogising about how great the Republican party was before Trump came along and how supposedly decent they were.

Please don't fall for it, their brand of politics is just as horrific as Trumpism, only difference is the likes of Bill Kristol, David Frum etc all scrub up much better than Trump.

I could not agree more with that. On the money IMHO you most definitely are. The idea that it will all be ok when the president goes away is just delusion and completely misses who the current Republican party is at its core which you so concisely and eloquently put forth there above. They may not be as vulgar and crude as the president but the Republican party to its core is a dangerous militaristic authoritarian leaning entity that will do anything to cling to power and believes wholeheartedly in Frideman's utterly repugnant and euphemistically called trickle down economics which has delivered massive income inequality and destroyed so many lives not just in the US but around the whole.

droidus

Rjd2 wrote: »

What is this "moderate conservatism " embodied by the Lincoln Project?:D

A group who for the most part supported the Iraq war, along with prominent never trumpers such as David Frum who not only championed that and abysmal trickle down economics and total devotion to the wonderful "free market"?

Trump would not have found a path to victory if the GOP and those "moderate conservatives" had not ruined so many lives over the decades they were in charge. It's utterly horrific the numerous catastrophes they presided over.

Their are a lot of Never Trumpers trying to rewrite history, eulogising about how great the Republican party was before Trump came along and how supposedly decent they were.

Please don't fall for it, their brand of politics is just as horrific as Trumpism, only difference is the likes of Bill Kristol, David Frum etc all scrub up much better than Trump.

Lol, yes of course, but moderation is relative. The 'traditional' Republican establishment, for all its faults are not in the same league of fanaticism of the post tea party incarnation, Palin, and now Trump, Qanon, NRA, openly racist militias and fascist elements.

It's also worth pointing out that Frum and his ilk are not radically different from the democrat establishment wrt economics, foreign policy, race and law and order.

My point is that the GOP in its current incarnation consists a rump of these traditional 'moderate' Republicans alongside evangelicals and a loose panoply of extremists, held together by Trump's electoral success and power. Once that is gone, the coalition will most likely collapse.

droidus

eire4 wrote: »

They may not be as vulgar and crude as the president but the Republican party to its core is a dangerous militaristic authoritarian leaning entity that will do anything to cling to power and believes wholeheartedly in Frideman's utterly repugnant and euphemistically called trickle down economics which has delivered massive income inequality and destroyed so many lives not just in the US but around the whole.

Let's not kid ourselves - this description also fits the Democrats, at least partially.

Rjd2

eire4 wrote: »

I could not agree more with that. On the money IMHO you most definitely are. The idea that it will all be ok when the president goes away is just delusion and completely misses who the current Republican party is at its core which you so concisely and eloquently put forth there above. They may not be as vulgar and crude as the president but the Republican party to its core is a dangerous militaristic authoritarian leaning entity that will do anything to cling to power and believes wholeheartedly in Frideman's utterly repugnant and euphemistically called trickle down economics which has delivered massive income inequality and destroyed so many lives not just in the US but around the whole.

Yep.

A lot of these nevertrumpers are switching not because they seen the light when it comes to neo-conservatism, but because they find Trump as a person repugnant. The fact their was concern would these people have stayed at home if it was Bernie v Trump says a lot.


Plenty also doing it because its hugely profitable been a never trumper.

The Dems obviously need to be pragmatic to win which is why Biden is a sensible choice, but when he is in power I hope he doesn't cater to them on anything. They in previous elections voting for the GOP must hold up their hands for the ****show America is in right now.

Plenty will sneak back to the GOP anyway if someone like Nikki Haley takes control of the party. She won't be that much better than Trump, but ultimately because she is much more sophisticated then they can look the other way when it comes to the Reganism politics she will champion.

droidus

Rjd2 wrote: »

Yep.

A lot of these nevertrumpers are switching not because they seen the light when it comes to neo-conservatism, but because they find Trump as a person repugnant. The fact their was concern would these people have stayed at home if it was Bernie v Trump says a lot.

Id say that it's also due to concern about the medium-long term damage that Trump has done to the GOP and the conservative movement. If they get rid of him now, there's at least a chance of recovery.

eire4

droidus wrote: »

Let's not kid ourselves - this description also fits the Democrats, at least partially.

Wish I could disagree but I cannot. I think economically the corporate Democrats take care of the say top 20% richest Americans while the Republicans look after the greed of the top 1% richest. But no question both parties very much do not care for the best economic interests of the vast majority of Americans which is how income inequality, poverty and lack of socio-economic mobility have become so bad in the US since Reagan.

Rjd2

droidus wrote: »

Id say that it's also due to concern about the medium-long term damage that Trump has done to the GOP and the conservative movement. If they get rid of him now, there's at least a chance of recovery.

Yeah.

Trump accidentally shined a light on a lot of the bull**** they have been getting away with for decades.

The most recent obvious example would be voter fraud.

I won't give Trump a pass here, but anyone who thinks Romney, Cruz, Rubio etc would have pushed back against that....:P

Water John

Biden is holding two events in Georgia tomorrow. The Dems see the state as in their reach.

Itssoeasy

Water John wrote: »

Biden is holding two events in Georgia tomorrow. The Dems see the state as in their reach.

There was talk of Kamala Harris going to Texas this week also. That poll from Dallas yesterday was positive. I mean democratic candidates going to Georgia and Texas a week out from the election is something you don’t see often. Trump is playing defence in places he shouldn’t have to as a republican as there is down ballot republicans who must be losing sleep over the down draft of ****e caused by trump that will impact them.

Water John

Trump was banking on focusing on florida and winning it one way or the other but he's had to turn most of his attention on Pennsylvania. The only one of the Rust Belt states he has any chance of.

Overheal

Pence is being dispensed to South Carolina to shore up Lindsey Graham's hemorrhaging senate race.

Overheal

Water John wrote: »

Biden is holding two events in Georgia tomorrow. The Dems see the state as in their reach.

Not surprising given what happened with the voter supression and narrow loss to the Republicans in the 2018 Gubernatorial race.

Brian Kemp won with 50.2% of the vote. Districts that Stacey Abrams needed to win were given voting machines without power cords.

Turning Georgia blue now would only begin to repair the damage of their abuse of power.

letowski

Water John wrote: »

Biden is holding two events in Georgia tomorrow. The Dems see the state as in their reach.

Im not sure do I agree with this, Harris is going to Texas also while Biden will then continue on to Iowa too. Already 40% of people have voted in these states, there is slim pickings left. They still lean red or toss up .

Maybe it’s a diversionary tactics to pull Trump away from the rust belt. Ultimately Biden’s best path is through building the mid west blue wall and I think he’d be better spent fortifying it.

Nonetheless the number of undecideds are minimal enough so it probably doesn’t matter much at this stage.

MJohnston

letowski wrote: »

Im not sure do I agree with this, Harris is going to Texas also while Biden will then continue on to Iowa too. Already 40% of people have voted in these states, there is slim pickings left. They still lean red or toss up .

Maybe it’s a diversionary tactics to pull Trump away from the rust belt. Ultimately Biden’s best path is through building the mid west blue wall and I think he’d be better spent fortifying it.

Nonetheless the number of undecideds are minimal enough so it probably doesn’t matter much at this stage.

The Senate is what matters in GA and is a good enough reason for Biden to GOTV there.