US Presidential Election 2020

eagle eye

pixelburp wrote:

Can't you say that about ALL politicians and debates though? Of course she rehearsed and had pre-written responses - they all do. Heck we do the same for our own speeches, interviews and so on. Trump being the obvious exception to the rule here (and continues to be), but saying a politician had rehearsed a debate seems a little ... disingenuous? I mean I think I get what you might mean, that perhaps the good politician can make it seem like they're speaking off the cuff, but we all know that's ultimately not true.

I've already said who I thought did well last night.
Harris to me came across as cold, rehearsed and appeared to enjoy going after Biden too much. She didn't come across like she cared about the bussing issue, all seemed fake and staged.
I mean she was easy to see through, I'd imagine lots of viewers could see that. I think Warren has a chance but not Harris.

AbusesToilets

I wasn't a fan of how feted Harris and Booker were, similarly with O'Rourke. They've done very little to warrant the attention they received, bar having a different skin tone. In contrast to Sanders and Warren, who've actually done something and had consistent stance on issues.

BluePlanet

Harris knocked it out the park.
She was able to command the room, was calm, clear and spoke with authority and that's what people look for in a President.

She was one of those kids getting bussed to a school back then, so confronting Biden on his racism was right on the money.

eagle eye

BluePlanet wrote:

Harris knocked it out the park. She was able to command the room, was calm, clear and spoke with authority and that's what people look for in a President.
She was one of those kids getting bussed to a school back then, so confronting Biden on his racism was right on the money.

As I said it all looked staged and she was enjoying it too much so it's hard to believe she actually cares. Came across as very cold.
If I was to liken her to another politician the closest match imo would be Donald Trump.

Walter Bishop

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Harris, on view of what happened last night, will eviscerate Trump in debates and make him look like the weakling he really is to the portion of his base who only really respect him because he's a bully. Trump will be wanting anyone but Harris after last night.

Trump probably won't do the debates, why would he? He's been throwing numerous conventions out the window before and after becoming President.


He has quite a bit to lose and more or less nothing to gain by trying to debate whoever the Dem contender is, so every possibility he just won't do them.

is_that_so

BluePlanet wrote: »

Harris knocked it out the park.
She was able to command the room, was calm, clear and spoke with authority and that's what people look for in a President.

She was one of those kids getting bussed to a school back then, so confronting Biden on his racism was right on the money.

But will she be able to beat Trump? That's the challenge for the Dems, not to be wowed by debate performances 18 months before the General and 12 months before they pick their own candidate. Look at Beto, pretty much gone now.

is_that_so

Walter Bishop wrote: »

Trump probably won't do the debates, why would he? He's been throwing numerous conventions out the window before and after becoming President.


He has quite a bit to lose and more or less nothing to gain by trying to debate whoever the Dem contender is, so every possibility he just won't do them.

He'll probably have to do at least one otherwise the Dems will goad him and annoy him. TV networks will expect it and he could always do it in Fox.:D

Walter Bishop

is_that_so wrote: »

He'll probably have to do at least one otherwise the Dems will goad him and annoy him. TV networks will expect it and he could always do it in Fox.:D

They're going to be doing that anyway and his style is to ignore them except when Twittering his fool head off. He doesn't give a ****e about the TV networks.

rossie1977

BluePlanet wrote: »

Harris knocked it out the park.
She was able to command the room, was calm, clear and spoke with authority and that's what people look for in a President.

She was one of those kids getting bussed to a school back then, so confronting Biden on his racism was right on the money.

Harris is sitting on between 5-10% of black vote while Biden is on 50%. This might be very smart tactic by Harris or it might also backfire. It's going to be very tough to attack Biden on race issue when he spent 8 years working under Obama.

As someone linked earlier, Harris convicted large percentage of black males while prosecutor, something that Bidens black supporters are already letting folks know about.

The Phantom Jipper

Yang can feel a little hard done by with the lack of questions going his way, seemingly he had by far the least time of all 20 candidates including complete non-entities like Delaney. I imagine his supporters have the least loyalty to the Democratic Party so it seems silly to give them something to have a grievance about.

BluePlanet

rossie1977 wrote: »

Harris is sitting on between 5-10% of black vote while Biden is on 50%. This might be very smart tactic by Harris or it might also backfire. It's going to be very tough to attack Biden on race issue when he spent 8 years working under Obama.

As someone linked earlier, Harris convicted large percentage of black males while prosecutor, something that Bidens black supporters are already letting folks know about.

Yes i know, it's something she'll have to respond to during the debates.
Thing is, she's a woman of colour and she has progressive policies that people are rooting for, whereas Biden is burdened by being an old white man that comes from privilege and has only 'let's not change too much and maintain the Status Quo' as his policy - these will only hurt voter turnout.

Rjd2

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

Yang can feel a little hard done by with the lack of questions going his way, seemingly he had by far the least time of all 20 candidates including complete non-entities like Delaney. I imagine his supporters have the least loyalty to the Democratic Party so it seems silly to give them something to have a grievance about.

Yang complaining about his mic been off, I believe him as does not strike me as a type of guy to moan for sake of it.



https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/status/1144551813582135296

BluePlanet

Mic being off unless called upon?
Ouch.

Likely DNC stacking the deck (again).
Gotta love how they put Beto in the centre.

The Phantom Jipper

Rjd2 wrote: »

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

Yang can feel a little hard done by with the lack of questions going his way, seemingly he had by far the least time of all 20 candidates including complete non-entities like Delaney. I imagine his supporters have the least loyalty to the Democratic Party so it seems silly to give them something to have a grievance about.

Yang complaining about his mic been off, I believe him as does not strike me as a type of guy to moan for sake of it.



https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/status/1144551813582135296

This is the kind of stuff I mean, and reading through the responses on Twitter, his supporters are somewhat justifiably feeling hard done by. Everyone knows Yang won't win, himself included I'd expect, but they should at least try and avoid alienating his supporters in what could be another tight election.

NSAman

BluePlanet wrote: »

Mic being off unless called upon?
Ouch.

Likely DNC stacking the deck (again).
Gotta love how they put Beto in the centre.

They were hoping he got a few more brain cells by osmosis.... god help us he is not the brightest.

AbusesToilets

NSAman wrote: »

They were hoping he got a few more brain cells by osmosis.... god help us he is not the brightest.

He can speak in Spanish tho...:rolleyes:

NSAman

AbusesToilets wrote: »

He can speak in Spanish tho...:rolleyes:

So can my 5 year old.;)

is_that_so

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

This is the kind of stuff I mean, and reading through the responses on Twitter, his supporters are somewhat justifiably feeling hard done by. Everyone knows Yang won't win, himself included I'd expect, but they should at least try and avoid alienating his supporters in what could be another tight election.

One would imagine "his" supporters will be Dem supporters when the time comes and not inclined to sulk and sit out the election.

briany

The whole Democratic field looks disappointing. It's a mix of centrists, people the Democrat establishment don't want, pseudo-left-wingers and identitarians. Kamala Harris is very passionate, but I could see her as being polarising, too.

I still say that someone like Jesse Ventura should have gotten on there. Not necessarily Ventura himself, but someone who's a wildcard, someone who's not seen as being part of the machine, someone who can talk directly to the people and generate that grassroots support.

pixelburp

briany wrote: »

The whole Democratic field looks disappointing. It's a mix of centrists, people the Democrat establishment don't want, pseudo-left-wingers and identitarians. Kamala Harris is very passionate, but I could see her as being polarising, too.

I still say that someone like Jesse Ventura should have gotten on there. Not necessarily Ventura himself, but someone who's a wildcard, someone who's not seen as being part of the machine, someone who can talk directly to the people and generate that grassroots support.

Is there really going to be an appetite for ANOTHER wildcard, non-establishment candidate though? Trump was that wild swing, a real estate tycoon who packaged himself as the "drain the swamp" herald and made a point of glad handing the disgruntled grassroots. There seem to be a lot out there with Voters Remorse. It'd want to be the absolute antithesis of Trump, but given the requirement of money in US politics I don't know who that could be...

eagle eye

briany wrote:

I still say that someone like Jesse Ventura should have gotten on there. Not necessarily Ventura himself, but someone who's a wildcard, someone who's not seen as being part of the machine, someone who can talk directly to the people and generate that grassroots support.

I keep saying Martin Heinrich should be there. The guy has the intelligence, he is a hard worker and the job he did on Sessions was what marked him as a great candidate for me. There is no doubt he could handle Trump.
Unfortunately as the Junior senator for New Mexico he will always get overlooked.

briany

pixelburp wrote: »

Is there really going to be an appetite for ANOTHER wildcard, non-establishment candidate though? Trump was that wild swing, a real estate tycoon who packaged himself as the "drain the swamp" herald and made a point of glad handing the disgruntled grassroots. There seem to be a lot out there with Voters Remorse. It'd want to be the absolute antithesis of Trump, but given the requirement of money in US politics I don't know who that could be...

There'll always be an appetite for a politician who wants to 'take on' Washington, but people in the U.S. recognise that 99 percent of the people who say they want to do this, never do either because they're simply unable, or because they didn't really want to. Faith in the normal system has ebbed away and it now feels like the only chance is for someone to gatecrash the thing and not play by everyone else's rules, just as Trump did, but with hopefully more of a positive message.

ILoveYourVibes

Sorry if there is a thread I could not find it.

Did you guys catch it??

Biden ruined his career.

Kamala Harris mentioned she was bused to school on the program he was against and that he defended a segregationist.

Marianne Williamson was the most searched politician online after the debate though.

Her tweets have gone viral since.

ILoveYourVibes

eagle eye wrote: »

She came across like everything was rehearsed too.

I noticed that too.

Not that it's a bad thing. But i thought 'she's rehearsed almost everything she has said'.


I still think she has a very fair chance though.

And i think she would be a good candidate.

Biden is done though. Too much baggage.

ILoveYourVibes

Marianne Williamson was the most searched candidate on google after the debate.


https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/450828-marianne-williamson-most-searched-on-google-for-night-two-of


All of her tweets have gone viral since.

Kimsang

Rjd2 wrote: »

Yang complaining about his mic been off, I believe him as does not strike me as a type of guy to moan for sake of it.

It seems the "YangGang" believe in a much wider conspiracy against him executed by MSNBC outlined here.

Evidence he was muted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8p73W7iZ5E

Speaking minutes.


#Questions asked(average of two debates)


During the Poor People’s Campaign Forum, MSNBC spoke over Yang’s appearance.

https://twitter.com/scottsantens/status/1144635584427827200

Here’s an MSNBC graphic from earlier this week where Yang’s picture was missing and some candidates who didn’t qualify for the debates were included:




If there is indeed a greater conspiracy by MSNBC here as the "YangGang" suggest, why is it? Is it for the same reason DNC obstructed Sander's candidacy because of his U.B.I.? (watching MSNBC I doubt this)

Or because they seem him as not a career politician, a businessman, something akin to Trump that they can't control?

Or something else? Or no conspiracy?

Atlantic Dawn

Trump evens for 2nd term on PP, I've put everthing I own on it, better than any pension scheme.

ILoveYourVibes

Kimsang wrote: »

It seems the "YangGang" believe in a much wider conspiracy against him executed by MSNBC outlined here.

Evidence he was muted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8p73W7iZ5E

Speaking minutes.

#Questions asked(average of two debates)

During the Poor People’s Campaign Forum, MSNBC spoke over Yang’s appearance.
Here’s an MSNBC graphic from earlier this week where Yang’s picture was missing and some candidates who didn’t qualify for the debates were included:




If there is indeed a greater conspiracy by MSNBC here as the "YangGang" suggest, why is it? Is it for the same reason DNC obstructed Sander's candidacy because of his U.B.I.? (watching MSNBC I doubt this)

Or because they seem him as not a career politician, a businessman, something akin to Trump that they can't control?

Or something else? Or no conspiracy?

NBC denies it ..who knows though.

ILoveYourVibes

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Trump evens for 2nd term on PP, I've put everthing I own on it, better than any pension scheme.

I would say he has a decent chance too.

Kimsang

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Trump evens for 2nd term on PP, I've put everthing I own on it, better than any pension scheme.

Easiest money you'll ever make. I got him at 2/1

Kimsang

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Marianne Williamson was the most searched candidate on google after the debate.
All of her tweets have gone viral since.

Similar to what seemingly is happening to Yang, Streisand Effect

The Streisand effect is a phenomenon whereby an attempt to hide, remove, or censor a piece of information has the unintended consequence of publicizing the information more widely, usually facilitated by the Internet.

is_that_so

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I noticed that too.

Not that it's a bad thing. But i thought 'she's rehearsed almost everything she has said'.


I still think she has a very fair chance though.

And i think she would be a good candidate.

Biden is done though. Too much baggage.

For lefties sure but they can't see past their noses on some points. Way too early to be making calls as this is just the initial clearout phase of the useless. There are also far too many on the left for now. If the Dems bow to the left and choose someone who "represents their values" they'd better be sure it's someone Americans will vote for in large enough numbers. The old white guys may be horses for courses but they may also be the answer for 2020. The real nightmare for the Dems is Trump beating their best choice and having Pence looking very Presidential in five years time!

The Phantom Jipper

Kimsang wrote: »

Rjd2 wrote: »

Yang complaining about his mic been off, I believe him as does not strike me as a type of guy to moan for sake of it.

It seems the "YangGang" believe in a much wider conspiracy against him executed by MSNBC outlined here.

Evidence he was muted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8p73W7iZ5E

Speaking minutes.


#Questions asked(average of two debates)


During the Poor People’s Campaign Forum, MSNBC spoke over Yang’s appearance.

https://twitter.com/scottsantens/status/1144635584427827200

Here’s an MSNBC graphic from earlier this week where Yang’s picture was missing and some candidates who didn’t qualify for the debates were included:




If there is indeed a greater conspiracy by MSNBC here as the "YangGang" suggest, why is it? Is it for the same reason DNC obstructed Sander's candidacy because of his U.B.I.? (watching MSNBC I doubt this)

Or because they seem him as not a career politician, a businessman, something akin to Trump that they can't control?

Or something else? Or no conspiracy?

Can't say I find that very persuasive. You have, among other things, a man raising his hand gesturing that he'd like to speak, and a nonsensical number of questions asked to each candidate that includes people who weren't even at the debate.

The Phantom Jipper

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Trump evens for 2nd term on PP, I've put everthing I own on it, better than any pension scheme.

That could end up being a great shout. Care to post a screenshot or a picture of the betting slip for the record?

4068ac1elhodqr

Kimsang wrote: »

Easiest money you'll ever make. I got him at 2/1

Got him election night live markets around 10/1, another chap/lady started the 25/1 thread on him way back mid-2016, and collected. Even with all the slating that came from it.

If he gets a Nobel peace prize for transformation of Kim from angry Rocketman into a Chuckle Bro, would stand a very good chance.

2.1 is available currently, just slightly better than evens.

Still to low however to consider (only chase double digits). Do however also like Yang for POTUS (he has the best USP of any politician in history). Well, that is, if he can make it through all the DemNom circus noise.

pixelburp

Yang is polling at 1-2%, it's not exactly a mystery why he got so little airtime, or might have been ignored. There's no conspiracy at play here, the field is flooded with low polling driftwood. Presumably Yang will contemplate running as a 3rd party once his Democrat dalliance comes to an end.

4068ac1elhodqr

pixelburp wrote: »

Yang is polling at 1-2%, it's not exactly a mystery why he got so little airtime, or might have been ignored. There's no conspiracy at play here, the field is flooded with low polling driftwood. Presumably Yang will contemplate running as a 3rd party once his Democrat dalliance comes to an end.

Chances are indeed slim, could simply a communication error with allthe noise/distortion, for what is (probably) the the best USP of any politician in history. Thus the message isn't getting delivered and processed (so far).

rossie1977

After the first debate

Itssoeasy

Having watched the US Sunday shows for a while it’s clear that any candidate for president can say the biggest load of ****e ever in an interview and once they say “the American people” at some point it seems to make it okay.

4068ac1elhodqr

Possibly a better reflection, than polls of a couple of thousand folks, is the real-world money markets for the DemNom 1 July:
Biden beaten back to 3rd place after 1st debate, where Harris faired the best.

ILoveYourVibes

is_that_so wrote: »

For lefties sure but they can't see past their noses on some points. Way too early to be making calls as this is just the initial clearout phase of the useless. There are also far too many on the left for now. If the Dems bow to the left and choose someone who "represents their values" they'd better be sure it's someone Americans will vote for in large enough numbers. The old white guys may be horses for courses but they may also be the answer for 2020. The real nightmare for the Dems is Trump beating their best choice and having Pence looking very Presidential in five years time!

Who is their best choice though? Biden?

How popular is he with gop voters that might float?

Melanchthon

[quotes from the question for your 1="ILoveYourVibes;110573616"]Who is their best choice though? Biden?

How popular is he with gop voters that might float?[/quote]

Melanchthon wrote: »

[quotes from the question for your 1="ILoveYourVibes;110573616"]Who is their best choice though? Biden?

How popular is he with gop voters that might float?

[/quote]

People are saying the attack about bussing was a big win for Harris and maybe it was for her personally.
But Biden who I am not a fan of and he has major flaws but the optics of the bussing thing to lower middle class voters are surely bad.
Imagine how well it would be received in Ireland if a TD landed out to say Raheny and told voters there, sorry about it but because of our policies your kids can't go to school in the standard lower middle class area you live in they will have to get the bus to darndale and sherrif street, I know they might do much worse but on average its the right thing to do.
Basically this progressiveness might be written up well but isn't that an issue that directly impacts a part of their base that swung to trump in 2016 in a negative way that's obvious in a wah other policies are not.

FreudianSlippers

Rjd2 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/TheNewThinkerr/status/1144431877115305984

Amusing and true.

Its a weakness for Harris, but I doubt anyone in these identity politics era would dare bring it up bar possibly Bookier and maybe Warren.

On the Harris v Biden issue....its hard to know will it matter,,,Biden's base is not online whatsoever,,,its older and they have been with Biden for a long time. More blows will need to be landed I think.

I just don't really get it... what do people expect that a black DA or AG wouldn't prosecute black people just because they're black? Her policy on prosecuting on third-strike crimes was very fair to people particularly in the minority community.

FreudianSlippers

Walter Bishop wrote: »

Trump probably won't do the debates, why would he? He's been throwing numerous conventions out the window before and after becoming President.


He has quite a bit to lose and more or less nothing to gain by trying to debate whoever the Dem contender is, so every possibility he just won't do them.

He won 2016 on foot of his debate "performances" (I mean that literally). I don't think he has the self-awareness to park his ego this time around and not put on a show.

pixelburp

Donald Trump will not pass over the chance to be on TV. His penchant for terrible nicknames "or 'nancy', as I like to call her" (Nancy Pilosi) shows he fancies himself as the grand wit and showman, he'll be there. Whether he accepts a losing result is another matter.

That poll showing the needle barely moving from Biden is dispiriting.

Rjd2

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I just don't really get it... what do people expect that a black DA or AG wouldn't prosecute black people just because they're black? Her policy on prosecuting on third-strike crimes was very fair to people particularly in the minority community.

https://twitter.com/QueerXiChisme/status/1145454315135361024

For the online really left wing people to put it simply Kamala is a cop. An issue there touched upon there and many left wing outlets recently is how Harris was the driving force behind Sesta a law which has been a disaster for sex workers. People should hammer her over it, but they must also remember everyone in the senate except 2 people Rand Paul and some nobody dem supported it.

TBH and its a shame for sex workers the dem positions on sex work wont matter a jot with the voters.

So is that woke base really representative of the majority of dems and voters in general despite been loud online? I suspect not.

They will find flaws in pretty much everyone on stage.

Dytalus

Rjd2 wrote: »

They will find flaws in pretty much everyone on stage.

If anything is going to kill the Democrat candidate this year, it won't be anything Trump or the republicans manage (unless their failure to secure the elections from interference, and their efforts at gerrymandering, pay off). It will be this.

With so many Democratic candidates, there's a chance that they'll tear themselves apart if 'their guy/girl' isn't the presidential candidate. This "Harris is a cop and is therefore bad" is just a symptom of the wider issue. I can think of extremely few politicians with clean slates worldwide, never mind in the US, and most of what's viewed as the dirty side of politics is the type of thing Democrat supporters despise.

If it's Harris, they'll hate her because she was a cop. Warren they'll hate because she's been involved with big corporations (or because of that Native American mess, however silly that is). Biden is old and out of touch. So on, so forth.

I'd not be at all surprised if Democrats took themselves out of the running before the Republicans do it for them.

Rjd2

I'm very confident that Trump loses in 2020, but the only fear for me is the dreaded purity tests that the left love takes out pretty much everyone.

If you were to stick 100 self described lefties in a room and asked them to discuss immigration, taxes, lgbt issues, guns,abortion, minimum wage, reparations, drug and sex work legislation, chances are they would be plenty of disagreements.

However the so called pure Dems have to realise that issues they may feel that people are weak on Trump is much worse on. Sex work,,,trans issues? Do you really think Trump or Pence are anymore liberal on this than Harris etc?

The right win because their voters hold there noses up when they vote, time for the left to do the same in 2020.

peddlelies

Republicans have been funding Marianne Williamson to keep her in the debates, all in good humor of course

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/06/28/democratic-debate-2019-republicans-urge-giving-marianne-williamson/1598726001/

is_that_so

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Who is their best choice though? Biden?

How popular is he with gop voters that might float?

I think it will be one out of 4-5 possibilities. Biden ticks some boxes electorally, a lot of black and blue collar support. Outside of the bubble of extreme Dem PC he may prove to be quite popular. Harris looks to have something but I think Warren might be a better option. Bernie, of course, will also be there and it's whoever comes out of the pack. Get the right candidate for this election and they can worry about all that vision stuff once they get the WH.