US Presidential Election 2020

sid waddell

The cry of "party unity" is always a one way street. Doesn't apply to "centrists". Didn't apply to the Labour party in Britain, doesn't apply in the Democrats in the US.

https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1236092311328690176

Gbear

eire4 wrote: »

Being lectured like that on what is moral and decent by David Frum is the height of hypocrisy. The man who wrote the infamous "axis of evil" speach for Bush that was part of paving the way for the lies and deceit that lead to the invasion of Iraqi.

He's been a bit of a fixture in the podcast scene lately - Talking Feds, Stay Tuned with Preet Bharara, the Ezra Klein Podcast amongst others, trying to peddle this "honest disagreement is dead, why can't we all get along" shtick.

In principle, he's not wrong, but the level of deceit or self-delusion at play for someone with his record to be advancing this position, is just incredible.

I haven't heard him take any ownership of the role of the kind of politics that he did endorse and was an active member of, being a primary causitive factor in the current state of global politics.

Ultimately, he has absolutely no problem with the core policy direction of the Republican party and Trump (inasmuch as he actually has any beliefs). He just wants a layer of plausible deniability proferred by competency and eloquence.

everlast75

everlast75 wrote: »

Biden should issue a press release stating that he will undergo a full neurological assessment by a random top tier surgeon, and release the records, if Trump will do the same.

In relation to allegations that Hunter Biden was making money off his old man's name, Biden should release a comprehensive analysis by a reputable firm of accountants of how Trump and his kids have been grifting off the american public for the last 3 plus years.

Any mention of Biden not supporting Annie Hall back in the day, should be dealt with by reference to her forgiving him and promptly thereafter reference to Summer Zervos and all of the women who are currently suing Trump for sex related crimes.

Time to slap (figuratively speaking) that smug pout off Trump's mouth.

This will do. There's plenty to work with.

Bloomberg's adverts were inescapable, regardless of what tv station you watch.

https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1236457135497773058?s=19

Gbear

everlast75 wrote: »

This will do. There's plenty to work with.

Bloomberg's adverts were inescapable, regardless of what tv station you watch.

https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1236457135497773058?s=19

It's ****ing absurd that there hasn't already been such a response.

"We will make good faith attacks against you that we should already be making if you make this markedly less significant bad faith attack against us."

rossie1977

Paddy Power has Biden winning Michigan (most delegates), North Dakota, Mississippi, Missouri with Sanders picking up Washington state and Idaho.

Looking further forward, Florida biggest prize remaining outside New York in late April with 219 delegates Tuesday week has Biden winning by 47 points in latest poll so he will likely get most if not all the 219.

The Nal

SNIP. Do not dump tweets here please.

It was a link containing a video showing the dem who will be chosen to beat Trump showing himself as a total incompetent.

It's fairly relevant to the thread.

KWAG2019

The Trump camp have everything coming together nicely. They have established equivalence between Biden and Trump where Trump is vulnerable.

Trump is corrupt but so is Biden.
Trump is not mentally what he was but neither is Biden.
Trump is a sexual harasser but so is Touchy Feely Joe.

Then you drag Biden as Establishment, insider, swamp dweller, immigrant weak, gun seizing control nut, threat to middle class tax breaks and the value of their 401k, weak on China, pro abortion, links to the Clintons etc etc.

Note: all they need is equivalence in the public eye, not in a court of law.

Trump is as good as re-elected; only if Bloomberg super pac attacks relentlessly and Trump mishandles the virus outbreak will he lose.

Only. The. Dems.

Foxtrol

KWAG2019 wrote: »

The Trump camp have everything coming together nicely. They have established equivalence between Biden and Trump where Trump is vulnerable.

Trump is corrupt but so is Biden.
Trump is not mentally what he was but neither is Biden.
Trump is a sexual harasser but so is Touchy Feely Joe.

Then you drag Biden as Establishment, insider, swamp dweller, immigrant weak, gun seizing control nut, threat to middle class tax breaks and the value of their 401k, weak on China, pro abortion, links to the Clintons etc etc.

Note: all they need is equivalence in the public eye, not in a court of law.

Trump is as good as re-elected; only if Bloomberg super pac attacks relentlessly and Trump mishandles the virus outbreak will he lose.

Only. The. Dems.

Biden has shown a Trump like ability for those accusations to roll off him, unlike Clinton in 2016.

Those fears have been out there, with Bernie and his supporters actively pushing some of them, yet Biden is so far running away with the nomination.

If Biden is such a terrible candidate, what does it say about Bernie/Warren etc, who havent been even able capitalise on any of it?

Foxtrol

Gbear wrote: »

It's ****ing absurd that there hasn't already been such a response.

"We will make good faith attacks against you that we should already be making if you make this markedly less significant bad faith attack against us."

They have been making them though, the public hasn't seemed to care.

The democrats can't be seen to run ads against his kids, Trump hasn't even done that yet. The difference here Bloomberg will.

Rjd2

Gbear wrote: »

He's been a bit of a fixture in the podcast scene lately - Talking Feds, Stay Tuned with Preet Bharara, the Ezra Klein Podcast amongst others, trying to peddle this "honest disagreement is dead, why can't we all get along" shtick.

In principle, he's not wrong, but the level of deceit or self-delusion at play for someone with his record to be advancing this position, is just incredible.

I haven't heard him take any ownership of the role of the kind of politics that he did endorse and was an active member of, being a primary causitive factor in the current state of global politics.

Ultimately, he has absolutely no problem with the core policy direction of the Republican party and Trump (inasmuch as he actually has any beliefs). He just wants a layer of plausible deniability proferred by competency and eloquence.

The Neocons like Kristol and Frum have been rehabilitated by the Dem mainstream which is dismal when you consider how little contrition they have shown for the Iraq war which they endorsed and how they set the environment for someone like Trump to emerge. Kristol endorsed Palin lets not forget.

I recall a republican member of congress Walter Jones who supported the Iraq war initially and heck renamed freedom fries french fries he was so into it.

However in the last decade or so he wrote over 12,000 letters to Gold Star families, he from all accounts was haunted by his role in it and the high body count and worked with the dems constantly when it came to veterans etc.

When he died last year the likes of Barbara Lee and Justin Amash wrote touching tributes to him two of the better people in congress when it comes to overseas interventionism.

He loathed Trump and opposed Trump's tax cuts for genuine conservative reasons " lets not burden our grand kids with debt" while others like Romney loved those horror cuts.

Depressingly Bill Kristol and other GOP powerhouses tried to force him out the party but thankfully failed.

It would be nice for some sort of similar contrition from the likes of Kristol, Frum, Boot who seem oblivious to their role in what was one of America's biggest mistakes of the last 50 years.

I have seen people here lionise the above due to the fact they say mean things about Trump and its pretty ****ing depressing as these people are supposedly lefties.

Lex Luthor

Not only have I voted here that Sanders will win the Dems vote, but imo he's going to be in the hot seat this time next year

Cant understand why his odds are only 14/1 :cool:

Gbear

Rjd2 wrote: »

The Neocons like Kristol and Frum have been rehabilitated by the Dem mainstream which is dismal when you consider how little contrition they have shown for the Iraq war which they endorsed and how they set the environment for someone like Trump to emerge. Kristol endorsed Palin lets not forget.

I recall a republican member of congress Walter Jones who supported the Iraq war initially and heck renamed freedom fries french fries he was so into it.

However in the last decade or so he wrote over 12,000 letters to Gold Star families, he from all accounts was haunted by his role in it and the high body count and worked with the dems constantly when it came to veterans etc.

When he died last year the likes of Barbara Lee and Justin Amash wrote touching tributes to him two of the better people in congress when it comes to overseas interventionism.

He loathed Trump and opposed Trump's tax cuts for genuine conservative reasons " lets not burden our grand kids with debt" while others like Romney loved those horror cuts.

Depressingly Bill Kristol and other GOP powerhouses tried to force him out the party but thankfully failed.

It would be nice for some sort of similar contrition from the likes of Kristol, Frum, Boot who seem oblivious to their role in what was one of America's biggest mistakes of the last 50 years.

I have seen people here lionise the above due to the fact they say mean things about Trump and its pretty ****ing depressing as these people are supposedly lefties.

Something lost that's probably underrated in the lopsided FPTP voting system is the voice of genuine conservatives acting in good faith being drowned out by the loonies.

I oppose conservatism in its core concept, but having a cautious voice in politics that urges restraint on progression is an important check and keeps progressives honest.

It's all but extinct in the US and probably in the UK (although you saw it during the last few years with sane Tories supporting the rule of law and opposing the railroading of parliament by the government).

Foxtrol

Lex Luthor wrote: »

Not only have I voted here that Sanders will win the Dems vote, but imo he's going to be in the hot seat this time next year

Cant understand why his odds are only 14/1 :cool:

Well this time last week it was widely believed Bernie could have an insurmountable lead in delegates after Super Tuesday and instead here we are with him behind by nearly 100 and looking like he will lose big in several upcoming states.

I saw Bernie on a few Sunday shows today peddling his usual 'establishment' conspiracy nonsense. It doesn't cross his mind that a person could choose to withdraw from a race when they don't see a path to victory, while understanding their withdrawal could help defeat someone they don't want to win. As usual, it is always someone else's fault.

Rjd2

Gbear wrote: »

Something lost that's probably underrated in the lopsided FPTP voting system is the voice of genuine conservatives acting in good faith being drowned out by the loonies.

I oppose conservatism in its core concept, but having a cautious voice in politics that urges restraint on progression is an important check and keeps progressives honest.

It's all but extinct in the US and probably in the UK (although you saw it during the last few years with sane Tories supporting the rule of law and opposing the railroading of parliament by the government).

Agreed.

If Biden wins in November and its likely, its going to be interesting to see what happens the party. Some like the neocons think Trump was just a one off and it will be back to the "good old days" of the market been God and overseas "exceptionalism",,,with someone like Nikki Hailey, Crenshaw as the leaders of this.


I am skeptical of that idea as think the party will lean towards those who embrace Trumpism mainly someone like Josh Hawley or even Carlson.

Those guys however could even be worse than Trump, they will be articulate but and have a clear agenda and won't get sidetracked by petty feuds like Trump.

briany

Rjd2 wrote: »

I am skeptical of that idea as think the party will lean towards those who embrace Trumpism mainly someone like Josh Hawley or even Carlson.

Those guys however could even be worse than Trump, they will be articulate but and have a clear agenda and won't get sidetracked by petty feuds like Trump.

If Trumpism is a truly popular doctrine then Roy Moore would have won his electoral contest in 2018 and not failed to even win his primary this year. He was someone who was backed by the man himself, and if there's one thing we know about Trumpism, it's that a 'little thing' like sexual misconduct is not supposed to get in the way.

In fact, there should be Trump acolytes getting voted in all over the place. Is this happening?

Gbear

briany wrote: »

If Trumpism is a truly popular doctrine then Roy Moore would have won his electoral contest in 2018 and not failed to even win his primary this year. He was someone who was backed by the man himself, and if there's one thing we know about Trumpism, it's that a 'little thing' like sexual misconduct is not supposed to get in the way.

In fact, there should be Trump acolytes getting voted in all over the place. Is this happening?

I suppose the thing about Trumpism is that Trump himself probably wouldn't have won the Republican primary if there had been ranked choice voting.

Republicans really don't actually like him, in the sense that if they had a republican alternative, they'd probably take it in a heartbeat.

There's a small subset of incels, nazis and other degenerates who genuinely support him because he's a scumbag, but the rest of the Republicans - the Christian fundamentalists, the pro-business crowd, etc, probably think he's a scumbag (and that's in their case that's not a positive). What it says about them that they'd still vote for him regardless is another discussion, but I think his "popularity" has to be held in the proper context.

The way they vote in candidates might tend to make Trump-like candidates more likely, but I don't think that means that a Trump-like candidate is the most likely next leader of the Republican party.

briany

Gbear wrote: »

The way they vote in candidates might tend to make Trump-like candidates more likely, but I don't think that means that a Trump-like candidate is the most likely next leader of the Republican party.

Trump isn't just some guy who says to build the wall. That's one element, but he's also built up a brand and presence by being in and around popular culture for basically forever. That's not to mention his ability to use Twitter and his relentless energy for someone over 70, holding countless rallies and all that, and never letting go of any spat, not matter how small. He may be the most negative and divisive POTUS in modern times, but he's also pretty unique is my feeling.

sid waddell

briany wrote: »

If Trumpism is a truly popular doctrine then Roy Moore would have won his electoral contest in 2018 and not failed to even win his primary this year. He was someone who was backed by the man himself, and if there's one thing we know about Trumpism, it's that a 'little thing' like sexual misconduct is not supposed to get in the way.

In fact, there should be Trump acolytes getting voted in all over the place. Is this happening?

Trump is the cult of personality and you can't divorce personality from his appeal. Mike Pence could not do what he does. Ivanka Trump could though and that's why she's very dangerous in the long run.

There are very few like Trump in terms of sheer brass neck. However it's notable that Boris Johnson, Farage, Arron Banks, Bolsonaro, Duterte, Salvini etc. do have quite similar personality types to him and that drives their popularity. Michael Healy Rae can do it in a much more localised Irish context.

In Russia and the former communist countries I think the personality type needed to carry off a clampdown on freedoms is a lot different because of historical context. Having the appearance of being a dull, grey suit is actually an asset there. But all the same propaganda techniques are used.

briany

sid waddell wrote: »

Trump is the cult of personality and you can't divorce personality from his appeal. Mike Pence could not do what he does. Ivanka Trump could though and that's why she's very dangerous in the long run.

Ivanka Trump couldn't really make it sound like she means what she says. The only chance she would have would be if Trump himself made it painfully clear that Ivanka was little more than a proxy to get another 4 years for himself, essentially. Even at that, she just wouldn't have the fire in the debates. She's a fashion designer, not a demagogue. Don Jr. might have a chance - he seems to have the sociopathic streak and narcissism to be like his old man in office.

vladmydad

briany wrote: »

If Trumpism is a truly popular doctrine then Roy Moore would have won his electoral contest in 2018 and not failed to even win his primary this year. He was someone who was backed by the man himself, and if there's one thing we know about Trumpism, it's that a 'little thing' like sexual misconduct is not supposed to get in the way.

In fact, there should be Trump acolytes getting voted in all over the place. Is this happening?

Most of the Republicans who got voted out in 2018 were anti trump, so republicans didn’t show up for them. Just as in the UK, when it came to election time the anti-democracy Tory’s all lost their seats. The party is now the Trump party (95% GOP approval). Roy Moore lost because again conservatives didn’t show up because of his actual crimes (unlike unproven allegations against Trump). Btw the Dem who won that race is toast in November.

vladmydad

Gbear wrote: »

I suppose the thing about Trumpism is that Trump himself probably wouldn't have won the Republican primary if there had been ranked choice voting.

Republicans really don't actually like him, in the sense that if they had a republican alternative, they'd probably take it in a heartbeat.

There's a small subset of incels, nazis and other degenerates who genuinely support him because he's a scumbag, but the rest of the Republicans - the Christian fundamentalists, the pro-business crowd, etc, probably think he's a scumbag (and that's in their case that's not a positive). What it says about them that they'd still vote for him regardless is another discussion, but I think his "popularity" has to be held in the proper context.

The way they vote in candidates might tend to make Trump-like candidates more likely, but I don't think that means that a Trump-like candidate is the most likely next leader of the Republican party.

Oh they love him. He won effectively uncontested nomination elections the same night as Super Tuesday. They’re meaningless. Yet in many of the states he got more votes than all the Dems combined, especially Texas. A record for a sitting president.

vladmydad

Rjd2 wrote: »

Agreed.

If Biden wins in November and its likely, its going to be interesting to see what happens the party. Some like the neocons think Trump was just a one off and it will be back to the "good old days" of the market been God and overseas "exceptionalism",,,with someone like Nikki Hailey, Crenshaw as the leaders of this.


I am skeptical of that idea as think the party will lean towards those who embrace Trumpism mainly someone like Josh Hawley or even Carlson.

Those guys however could even be worse than Trump, they will be articulate but and have a clear agenda and won't get sidetracked by petty feuds like Trump.

It’s not likely at all that Biden wins in November. No president in history has ever been removed with this kind of booming economy. Trumps also got the inherent incumbent advantage, He’s got a staggering war chest built up and above all He’s been a great President ( prosperity and peace) Biden has not been hit at all yet by the GOP. I actually almost feel sorry for him cause by the time they’re finished with him he’ll be in pieces. The RNC play dirty. Hunter Biden’s Ukraine corruption, 94 crime bill, war in Iraq, creepy touching, treatment of Annita Hill, school busing, and above all his clear dementia.

sid waddell

briany wrote: »

Ivanka Trump couldn't really make it sound like she means what she says. The only chance she would have would be if Trump himself made it painfully clear that Ivanka was little more than a proxy to get another 4 years for himself, essentially. Even at that, she just wouldn't have the fire in the debates. She's a fashion designer, not a demagogue. Don Jr. might have a chance - he seems to have the sociopathic streak and narcissism to be like his old man in office.

Ivanka Trump would cloak kleptocracy in the clothes of feminism.

vladmydad

sid waddell wrote: »

Ivanka Trump would cloak kleptocracy in the clothes of feminism.

Hunter Biden

kowloon

briany wrote: »

Ivanka Trump couldn't really make it sound like she means what she says. The only chance she would have would be if Trump himself made it painfully clear that Ivanka was little more than a proxy to get another 4 years for himself, essentially. Even at that, she just wouldn't have the fire in the debates. She's a fashion designer, not a demagogue. Don Jr. might have a chance - he seems to have the sociopathic streak and narcissism to be like his old man in office.

Don Jr. might have the same vibe going as Donal himself, but I believe he has actually mentioned Ivanka as a possible successor before. I'm not sure if it's a line of succession thing in the making.

I'd like to see Jared take the lead. The speeches would be phenomenal.

Rjd2

briany wrote: »

If Trumpism is a truly popular doctrine then Roy Moore would have won his electoral contest in 2018 and not failed to even win his primary this year. He was someone who was backed by the man himself, and if there's one thing we know about Trumpism, it's that a 'little thing' like sexual misconduct is not supposed to get in the way.

In fact, there should be Trump acolytes getting voted in all over the place. Is this happening?

I was in a rush above, but plenty on the right are trying to add nuance to Trumpism. We can all agree that Trump has no core beliefs, he'd be screaming for open borders if he thought it would bump his numbers.



Why I think everyone should be keeping a close eye on Josh Hawley when it comes to 2024, he is highly educated, articulate, ambitious, presentable and someone the left should be terrified of.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/josh-hawley-could-be-the-face-of-the-post-trump-right.html
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/11/josh-hawley-trumpism-gop/602365/

Someone like him or maybe Tucker will run on populist economy policies and right wing social ideas and if Biden is the opponent in 2024 it could be a blow out.

Brian?

vladmydad wrote: »

It’s not likely at all that Biden wins in November. No president in history has ever been removed with this kind of booming economy. Trumps also got the inherent incumbent advantage, He’s got a staggering war chest built up and above all He’s been a great President ( prosperity and peace) Biden has not been hit at all yet by the GOP. I actually almost feel sorry for him cause by the time they’re finished with him he’ll be in pieces. The RNC play dirty. Hunter Biden’s Ukraine corruption, 94 crime bill, war in Iraq, creepy touching, treatment of Annita Hill, school busing, and above all his clear dementia.

The Dow just has it's single biggest loss in a week since 2008 and it hasn't stopped dropping. The Asian markets are in free fall today so there'll be another fall in the Dow and NASDAQ later today.

We're looking at a massive market correction and possibly a recession way before November. Trumps roaring economy was built on foundations of sand.

Brian?

Rjd2 wrote: »

I was in a rush above, but plenty on the right are trying to add nuance to Trumpism. We can all agree that Trump has no core beliefs, he'd be screaming for open borders if he thought it would bump his numbers.



Why I think everyone should be keeping a close eye on Josh Hawley when it comes to 2024, he is highly educated, articulate, ambitious, presentable and someone the left should be terrified of.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/josh-hawley-could-be-the-face-of-the-post-trump-right.html
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/11/josh-hawley-trumpism-gop/602365/

Someone like him or maybe Tucker will run on populist economy policies and right wing social ideas and if Biden is the opponent in 2024 it could be a blow out.

Are you suggesting Tucker Carlson for president?

Water John

Brian? wrote: »

The Dow just has it's single biggest loss in a week since 2008 and it hasn't stopped dropping. The Asian markets are in free fall today so there'll be another fall in the Dow and NASDAQ later today.

We're looking at a massive market correction and possibly a recession way before November. Trumps roaring economy was built on foundations of sand.

The 'sand' reference is very apt as it's Trump's friends, the Saudis that have collapsed the price of oil.

Quin_Dub

The Nal wrote: »

It was a link containing a video showing the dem who will be chosen to beat Trump showing himself as a total incompetent.

It's fairly relevant to the thread.

It was a link containing a heavily edited video to make it appear that Biden was saying something he wasn't.

Even Twitter have now flagged it as "Manipulated content"

The Nal

Quin_Dub wrote: »

It was a link containing a heavily edited video to make it appear that Biden was saying something he wasn't.

Even Twitter have now flagged it as "Manipulated content"

The manipulated content was the cut off at the end yes. However technically they can only re-elect Donald Trump as he is the sitting president. They can re-elect Trump or elect someone else.

But the bumbling 10 seconds of gibberish that preceded the edit is still relevant.

Quin_Dub

The Nal wrote: »

The manipulated content was the cut off at the end yes. However technically they can only re-elect Donald Trump as he is the sitting president. They can re-elect Trump or elect someone else.

But the bumbling 10 seconds of gibberish that preceded the edit is still relevant.

Biden has spoken at length about his struggles to overcome a stammer , which leads to a lot of his verbal errors.

Trump has no such excuse/mitigation that I am aware of.

The full quote from Biden was "We can only re-elect Trump if we continue with this Circular Firing squad" - A reference to the infighting among the Democrats.

A perfectly valid statement , edited down to "We can only re-elect Trump" by the Trump campaign team.

Who's more at fault here?

The Nal

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Biden has spoken at length about his struggles to overcome a stammer , which leads to a lot of his verbal errors.

Trump has no such excuse/mitigation that I am aware of.

The full quote from Biden was "We can only re-elect Trump if we continue with this Circular Firing squad" - A reference to the infighting among the Democrats.

A perfectly valid statement , edited down to "We can only re-elect Trump" by the Trump campaign team.

Who's more at fault here?

It doesn't matter whos at fault. Its called negative campaigning and has been very successful tool in US politics since Lyndon Johnson. The Republicans are masters at it. Very impressive people like Lee Atwater and Roger Stone have turned it into an art. Horrible horrible people but great at their jobs.

And yes, perfectly valid statement. The rambling before had nothing to do with Bidens stammer though.

On a broader point, Biden is an easy target. Hes 78 this year. He appears frail and weak. They'll tear him to pieces.

Brian?

The Nal wrote: »

It doesn't matter whos at fault. Its called negative campaigning and has been very successful tool in US politics since Lyndon Johnson. The Republicans are masters at it. Very impressive people like Lee Atwater and Roger Stone have turned it into an art. Horrible horrible people but great at their jobs.

And yes, perfectly valid statement. The rambling before had nothing to do with Bidens stammer though.

On a broader point, Biden is an easy target. Hes 78 this year. He appears frail and weak. They'll tear him to pieces.

Whatever else you say about him, Joe Biden is a decent human being. But somehow the GOP have already turned him to a sex monster. He’s been married twice because his first wife died.

The worst allegations against him are that he gives too many hugs and yet YouTube is full of videos making him look like a serial rapist.

This is only the start.

While on the other hand Trump rides porn stars while his wife is recovering from giving birth and is massively popular with the evangelicals. If it was fiction, people would reject it for being too unbelievable.

The Nal

Brian? wrote: »

Whatever else you say about him, Joe Biden is a decent human being. But somehow the GOP have already turned him to a sex monster. He’s been married twice because his first wife died.

The worst allegations against him are that he gives too many hugs and yet YouTube is full of videos making him look like a serial rapist.

This is only the start.

While on the other hand Trump rides porn stars while his wife is recovering from giving birth and is massively popular with the evangelicals. If it was fiction, people would reject it for being too unbelievable.

Agree with all of this yes. Him being a decent human being is the problem. Excellent VP and senator, terrible choice for president.

Apart from the odd president like Obama and Carter, anyone who has won an election post WW2 has been a complete prick.

Serious question, which has yet to raised by the Replublicans, and it will. Is it a good idea to have person as president who will be 82 years of age finishing his first term? It puts the VP under so much scrutiny.

So much was made of McCains age by the Democrats at the sprightly age of 71.

Brian?

The Nal wrote: »

Agree with all of this yes. Him being a decent human being is the problem. Excellent VP and senator, terrible choice for president.

Apart from the odd president like Obama and Carter, anyone who has won an election post WW2 has been a complete prick.

Serious question, which has yet to raised by the Replublicans, and it will. Is it a good idea to have person as president who will be 82 years of age finishing his first term? It puts the VP under so much scrutiny.

So much was made of McCains age by the Democrats at the sprightly age of 71.

It would take serious neck to make that point with Trump running. But I have no doubt they’ll do it.

marno21

Mike Bloomberg has given the Democrats, Biden especially, a taste of what they need to do to level up the playing field here. There is no point in playing nice this time, you will lose.

There is plenty off fodder there for them, all the brain misfirings if he mentions Biden's mental state, the clips of him talking about Ivanka if he rolls out creepy Joe etc

The same tactic should be used on Senate races in Colorado, Maine, North Carolina, Arizona, Georgia, Iowa and Montana (now that it looks like Bullock is running).

Then again, the shambles that the administration is making of the coronavirus outbreak, and the crashing stock market may do a lot of the work for the Democrats.

briany

marno21 wrote: »

Then again, the shambles that the administration is making of the coronavirus outbreak, and the crashing stock market may do a lot of the work for the Democrats.

Donald Trump has already called the virus a Democrat hoax, and you'd expect him to stick with that sentiment. And presumably his supporters will buy that, too.

"They say the virus was made in China. Maybe in a lab under the instruction of Obama, we don't know, we don't know."

Rjd2

Brian? wrote: »

Are you suggesting Tucker Carlson for president?

I'm not suggesting I would like to see it but their is serious inequality in America which I don't expect Biden to really tackle. Someone like Hawley or tucker running on an economic populist and socially conservative message will make mincemeat out of moderate Joe.

It's such a shame Warren ran such a dire campaign because America needs an fdr type person as president.

eire4

Rjd2 wrote: »

I'm not suggesting I would like to see it but their is serious inequality in America which I don't expect Biden to really tackle. Someone like Hawley or tucker running on an economic populist and socially conservative message will make mincemeat out of moderate Joe.

It's such a shame Warren ran such a dire campaign because America needs an fdr type person as president.

There is absolutely no question Biden if he becomes president will be fully down with continuing the corporate Democrats policies economically which come from the Milton Frideman disaster capitalism playbook and which has seen the rich continue to gobble up more and more of the pie in the US and income inequality continue to get worse.

Foxtrol

marno21 wrote: »

Mike Bloomberg has given the Democrats, Biden especially, a taste of what they need to do to level up the playing field here. There is no point in playing nice this time, you will lose.

There is plenty off fodder there for them, all the brain misfirings if he mentions Biden's mental state, the clips of him talking about Ivanka if he rolls out creepy Joe etc

The same tactic should be used on Senate races in Colorado, Maine, North Carolina, Arizona, Georgia, Iowa and Montana (now that it looks like Bullock is running).

Then again, the shambles that the administration is making of the coronavirus outbreak, and the crashing stock market may do a lot of the work for the Democrats.

Bloomberg will be just keep doing that himself. He's keeping a lot of his team together and just putting money into taking Trump out

Rjd2

eire4 wrote: »

There is absolutely no question Biden if he becomes president will be fully down with continuing the corporate Democrats policies economically which come from the Milton Frideman disaster capitalism playbook and which has seen the rich continue to gobble up more and more of the pie in the US and income inequality continue to get worse.

Indeed.

Biden will be a better president than Trump because how could anyone not be,,,,but the same issues that allowed Trump to become president will for the most part not be tacked.

The likes of Yang, Gabbard, Warren and Bernie were some of the few who seemed more interested in trying to tackle the inequality that led to Trump winning.

However many of the corporate Dems had no interest, instead screamed Putin@~!~!! and focused more on the obnoxiousness of the man rather than what led to plenty of Obama voters who were so disillusioned they voted for Trump.


AOC when she argued for Bernie made the point that a moderate Dem is not the long term answer because what comes after 4 years of "same as usual" for the Dems won't be pleasant to say the least.

The Nal

Rjd2 wrote: »

Indeed.

Biden will be a better president than Trump because how could anyone not be,,,,

Trump is a better president that his Republican predecessor.

briany

Rjd2 wrote: »

AOC when she argued for Bernie made the point that a moderate Dem is not the long term answer because what comes after 4 years of "same as usual" for the Dems won't be pleasant to say the least.

I think she is correct in saying this, but I also think America's political system is so opposed that a more left of centre candidate like Bernie wouldn't be much better in terms of what comes after. Bernie would be able to get very little done because he wouldn't only be opposed by the Republicans, but also by a majority of his own party, who don't even really accept him as one of their own. He'd have to resort to executive orders and be called a socialist dictator by every right-wing outlet in the states. The pushback on this would be mighty.

In reality, the office of president isn't even what Americans should be focusing on. If progressives want real change, then they have to be voting in such candidates right from the bottom up and maintain their cause over a sustained period of time, not just for the POTUS election season.

Quin_Dub

The Nal wrote: »

Trump is a better president that his Republican predecessor.

By what measure??

Not saying that GWB was great by any stretch of the imagination , but in what specific ways is Trump "Better"??

I'd argue that they were both bad, albeit in different ways , but I'd have Trump comfortably ahead on points in the "Which was worse" competition.

Quin_Dub

briany wrote: »

I think she is correct in saying this, but I also think America's political system is so opposed that a more left of centre candidate like Bernie wouldn't be much better in terms of what comes after. Bernie would be able to get very little done because he wouldn't only be opposed by the Republicans, but also by a majority of his own party, who don't even really accept him as one of their own. He'd have to resort to executive orders and be called a socialist dictator by every right-wing outlet in the states. The pushback on this would be mighty.

In reality, the office of president isn't even what Americans should be focusing on. If progressives want real change, then they have to be voting in such candidates right from the bottom up and maintain their cause over a sustained period of time, not just for the POTUS election season.

Absolutely - It's all about the Senate and the Judiciary. The GOP recognised that a long time ago.

If Biden or Sanders were to win in November it's all largely for nought if McConnell still leads the Senate.

Equally though , if the Democrats take the Senate , then it really doesn't matter a whole lot if Trump get re-elected.

Igotadose

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Equally though , if the Democrats take the Senate , then it really doesn't matter a whole lot if Trump get re-elected.

It matters a whole lot. The gutting of regulations and wild-style executive orders will continue, as well as the decay of US foreign relations if Trump's in the WH. Little or no policy will be enacted by Congress as Trump will become veto happy. Plus like the Supreme Court gets down to 7 members should the expected 2 retire in the next few years and the Senate refuses to send nominees.


Now, if there were Democratic majority in the House and 2/3 in the Senate, that's potentially very entertaining, impeach Trump twice.

Rjd2

Quin_Dub wrote: »

By what measure??

Not saying that GWB was great by any stretch of the imagination , but in what specific ways is Trump "Better"??

I'd argue that they were both bad, albeit in different ways , but I'd have Trump comfortably ahead on points in the "Which was worse" competition.

Neither will be remembered fondly, but Trump for all his flaws wasn't responsible for the Iraq war arguably the biggest policy error of the last 50 years especially when you look at the huge numbers who died and how it still affects America to this day.

The Nal

Quin_Dub wrote: »

By what measure??

By the measure that Trump didn't start an ill-advised unnecessary war largely based on a personal vendetta that destabilised the entire middle east leading to the deaths of millions of people and presided over economic appointments, interest rate hikes and military spending that plunged the planet into the worst recession in 90 years.

The historical revision of Bush from relentless war monger into some folksie naive good ol' Texan just to make Trump appear worse is baffling to me.

Brian?

Rjd2 wrote: »

Neither will be remembered fondly, but Trump for all his flaws wasn't responsible for the Iraq war arguably the biggest policy error of the last 50 years especially when you look at the huge numbers who died and how it still affects America to this day.

The Trump tax cut will prove worse than the Bush one in the long run.

Trump is an ignorant bully. Dubya was almost a decent human being.