US Presidential Election 2020

everlast75

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

China, it'll all be about China, in fact he's already started.

Even though I think Biden is woeful (and I think most of the other candidates were more inspiring than him) I do hope you're right about him and he has enough to beat Trump.

It's a typical Trump tactic - identify an enemy, if it's foreign all the better, and make it about a war with them.

The truth will come out about how he completely ****ed things up at the US end of things. It is already brutal.

People aren't voting for or against China in November.

pixelburp

Incredibly, Tulsi Gabbard has only now retired from the race. Not sure what business she thought she had hanging on, even if her effect on the votes must have been less than negligible at this stage.

Brian?

pixelburp wrote: »

Incredibly, Tulsi Gabbard has only now retired from the race. Not sure what business she thought she had hanging on, even if her effect on the votes must have been less than negligible at this stage.

Fundraising to pay off campaign debt. Happens a lot.

rossie1977

Another thing we are forgetting re: debates is that Biden has had multiple over past year and been hit from all sides by strong debaters like Warren, Harris and Sanders and still standing.

Trump's not been in a debate in 4 years and Clinton was personally told not to go low vs Trump yet still came out of those debates looking far stronger.

As of now I don't think debates will be key issue. Biden has the momentum, it's been clear since South Carolina, can he maintain this momentum is unknown.

Economy is crashing. This was the big thing Trump fans held up as reason why he would be re-elected easily. I personally didn't buy that as a stronger Irish economy didn't save Fine Gael this past election. Trump is deeply unpopular outside Republican party. That was always going to effect his 2020 election regardless how well economy looked on paper.

Foxtrol

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Well, yeah. This is why I wasn't blaming Biden fo them being held.

I was trying to support you on that one.

I don't see how you can be this aggressive towards Bernie right now.

Nothing since the debate has said to me that he is going to go kicking and screaming.

He has his price for leaving and that is more progressive politics going forward. If he brings Biden along, even a little bit as he already has shown, then he's done his work and he will be on the campaign trail with Biden to beat Trump.

He has to time it though because the longer the focus is on Trump the better. The man is flailing around, last thing Bernie needs to do is give Trump a singular focus.

Firstly, he is putting lives at risk requiring the primary to continue. Yes, down ballot primaries will still need to happen but no where near the turnout will happen without the presidential race.

Secondly, he repeating the same toxic situation as there was in 2016. He got his price then but by the time he dropped out (long past the point where he had no path to victory) and fully supported Hillary (weeks after he dropped out) a large percentage of his supporters were toxic to her, with protests at the convention etc.

I don't actually agree with the analysis that Bernie is looking for a price to leave anyway. A man that was actually looking forward would have focused Sunday's debate on current/future policy rather than continuously attacking the votes of his opponent decades ago. Bernie is still staying in the race for personal gain and the longshot hope of some kind of miracle to turn the tide. Asking for elections to be postponed just gives him more time for this to happen.

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

Biden is no showman but he instills the same with those voting for him. Do you think people haven't seen his gaffs or heard about Ukraine? They are still voting for him.

Big difference with Trump this time is that he will likely have thousands of deaths that will be pointed to him being a key contributor. Harder to stick by a showman that was at fault for the death of your grandparents.

Plus an economy that is gonna be far worse off than when he started. Noticeable that the posters that said he'd win because of the economy are largely absent atm. This is gonna be a horrifically remembered period and it's only gonna get worse.

Foxtrol

pixelburp wrote: »

Incredibly, Tulsi Gabbard has only now retired from the race. Not sure what business she thought she had hanging on, even if her effect on the votes must have been less than negligible at this stage.

Biggest thing is that she is throwing her support behind Biden and not threatening a 3rd party run, which was the concern based on his hanging around for so long

Quin_Dub

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

China, it'll all be about China, in fact he's already started.

Even though I think Biden is woeful (and I think most of the other candidates were more inspiring than him) I do hope you're right about him and he has enough to beat Trump.

everlast75 wrote: »

It's a typical Trump tactic - identify an enemy, if it's foreign all the better, and make it about a war with them.

The truth will come out about how he completely ****ed things up at the US end of things. It is already brutal.

People aren't voting for or against China in November.

The "It's all Chinas fault" won't really hold water though.

If we accept the premise that the Corona Virus is all Chinas fault (which I don't necessarily)

To use a fire analogy , China were the Arsonist that set fire to the Orphanage.

Trump is the fire chief that wouldn't answer the phone when people called in the fire , who when he did answer the phone he told them they were exaggerating and even when he could see the smoke out the window , told everyone that it didn't look like a big fire and that there was no need to rush to get there.

And when the Fire fighters finally got there and the fire was in full rampage and they got stuck in , the Fire chief was wandering around saying "Hey everyone , aren't I great for fighting this fire!!!!" , whilst bodies are being carried out in droves..

PopePalpatine

Brian? wrote: »

Trump can’t form a correct sentence, how it God’s name could he destroy Biden in a debate?

Does it really matter? His base probably won't watch clips of him scrambling for answers, they'll see 10 second clips of Biden scrambling for words, just like his fans spread seconds-long clips of Hillary stumbling in 2016.

They're not going to watch videos titled "BIDEN BLOWS OUT TRUMP". All that matters is that Trump gets them a little closer to a cross between Gilead and Galt's Gulch.

eagle eye

Foxtrol wrote:

Big difference with Trump this time is that he will likely have thousands of deaths that will be pointed to him being a key contributor. Harder to stick by a showman that was at fault for the death of your grandparents.

How can people keep bringing this up when Trump will just point at Biden and say he too took the pandemic seriously long before Biden who wanted people to go out and vote?

Water John

Sadly, I see the deaths overshadowing all these issues.

everlast75

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Does it really matter? His base probably won't watch clips of him scrambling for answers, they'll see 10 second clips of Biden scrambling for words, just like his fans spread seconds-long clips of Hillary stumbling in 2016.

They're not going to watch videos titled "BIDEN BLOWS OUT TRUMP". All that matters is that Trump gets them a little closer to a cross between Gilead and Galt's Gulch.

Once more, for those in the back.


No. One. Cares. About. His. Base.


They are the lost boys. They are not convertible.

The remaining 65% of the population are what counts.

The Dems are going with a moderate, experienced politician with positive name recognition, directly associated with a huge recovery in America's fortune.

The Reps are going with an incumbent who was impeached, has made a balls of the economy, embarrassed America on the world stage and sadly, is currently overseeing an absolute lesson in incompetence.

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

How can people keep bringing this up when Trump will just point at Biden and say he too took the pandemic seriously long before Biden who wanted people to go out and vote?

Because Biden isn't president and isn't on tape calling it a hoax, saying it will disappear like a miracle, admitting he cut the pandemic response team to save money, that everyone can get tested, that he liked the numbers where they are, that he gives himself a 10 out of 10, that he takes no responsibility etc etc...

In the Irish context it is like when Finna Fail said post crash that all parties were asking for spending increases during the tiger years. That didn't matter to most because they weren't in charge during the disaster.

It won't matter to the extremes of the Trump cult but it'll matter to a lot of people, especially given the economic fallout.

briany

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Does it really matter? His base probably won't watch clips of him scrambling for answers, they'll see 10 second clips of Biden scrambling for words, just like his fans spread seconds-long clips of Hillary stumbling in 2016.

They're not going to watch videos titled "BIDEN BLOWS OUT TRUMP". All that matters is that Trump gets them a little closer to a cross between Gilead and Galt's Gulch.

Trump was all over the shop in all three debates with Hillary. By every conventional metric up to that point, Hillary absolutely destroyed Donald Trump. She was almost laughing how apparently easy Trump was making it for her as she advised people to go fact check everything Trump was saying, confident in the knowledge that his ignorance would be well and truly exposed and he would be swiftly consigned to the scrapheap of the very worst in presidential nominees.

But it didn't quite happen like that. Trump won his race by doing some fairly unconventional street-fighting campaigning and taking his message to the places that Hillary figured were probably in the bag. It was not won or lost on the debate stage at all. It's a tough ask for Trump to repeat his trick, given the coronavirus response and a rapidly tanking economy due to that, but it's also going to be hard for Joe Biden to convince the rust belt people that he is the one to lead them.

pixelburp

So I'm wondering, while imposed by the virus, the lack of an audience really galvanised the last democratic debate;, the issues could step forward, and allow substantive debate between the candidates. No hooting, no plants, nothing but Biden and Sanders going toe to toe in a classical political debate.

There's a non zero chance there'll be no audience come the national debates, so I've been speculating if this would help or harm Trump. He'd have no gallery to play to, no response from his act. In a cold, professional debate he could find himself in bother.

BonnieSituation

pixelburp wrote: »

So I'm wondering, while imposed by the virus, the lack of an audience really galvanised the last democratic debate;, the issues could step forward, and allow substantive debate between the candidates. No hooting, no plants, nothing but Biden and Sanders going toe to toe in a classical political debate.

There's a non zero chance there'll be no audience come the national debates, so I've been speculating if this would help or harm Trump. He'd have no gallery to play to, no response from his act. In a cold, professional debate he could find himself in bother.

The lack of an audience absolutely helped. It was by far the best debate I've seen in a long time simply for that. No need for the heckling and harrying.

Trump needs audience reactions to his utterances, either bad or good, because they distract. Everything he does is to distract. If he has to make substantive points he's toast.

eire4

everlast75 wrote: »

Once more, for those in the back.


No. One. Cares. About. His. Base.


They are the lost boys. They are not convertible.

The remaining 65% of the population are what counts.

The Dems are going with a moderate, experienced politician with positive name recognition, directly associated with a huge recovery in America's fortune.

The Reps are going with an incumbent who was impeached, has made a balls of the economy, embarrassed America on the world stage and sadly, is currently overseeing an absolute lesson in incompetence.

Firstly I think the crisis that the US and we all are in the midst of will IMHO lead to a Democratic victory next November in the US. I also agree with you about his base if that is what you want to call that 30% or so of Americans who are still ok with this racist demagogue who is economically sticking it to everyone but the very wealthy.

I will disagree with you about the other 65% or so of the population. The US participation rate even for presidential elections is in the mid 50's so over 40% of the total electorate will not and have not voted in decades. Since the Democratic party became disciples of Milton Friedman's disaster capitalism in the 1980's they have turned their back on the vast majority of Americans economically and Biden is very much part of that corporate Democratic leadership. So While that 65% should be what counts the corporate Democrats and Biden is very much one don't care about most of them economically either.

I will also take issue with you about the huge recovery in America's fortunes under Obama and Biden as vice president. There was no huge recovery unless you were extremely wealthy. The vast majority of economic growth under Obama and Biden went to the most wealthy while for the vast majority of Americans things at best stayed the same. Biden will just be more of the same.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/how-inequality-has-changed-under-obama

The Phantom Jipper

Foxtrol wrote: »

Because Biden isn't president and isn't on tape calling it a hoax, saying it will disappear like a miracle, admitting he cut the pandemic response team to save money, that everyone can get tested, that he liked the numbers where they are, that he gives himself a 10 out of 10, that he takes no responsibility etc etc...

In the Irish context it is like when Finna Fail said post crash that all parties were asking for spending increases during the tiger years. That didn't matter to most because they weren't in charge during the disaster.

It won't matter to the extremes of the Trump cult but it'll matter to a lot of people, especially given the economic fallout.

Completely agree on the coronavirus. They need to use some of this Bloomberg cash and hammer him on this on ads all across the country. People will die and probably already have because of his propaganda at the start of the crisis. If Democrats can't expose his failure on this issue, they don't deserve to be elected.

eagle eye

Didn't Biden come out and say that Trump's reaction was way ott when he restricted travel to and from China? Then tells people to go out and vote a couple of days ago. .
How would the US be doing with him as President? I'd suggest given those irresponsible things he has said that things would be much worse right now.

MadYaker

eagle eye wrote: »

Didn't Biden come out and say that Trump's reaction was way ott when he restricted travel to and from China? Then tells people to go out and vote a couple of days ago. .
How would the US be doing with him as President? I'd suggest given those irresponsible things he has said that things would be much worse right now.

Its obvious you have no concept of the situation facing the USA. 627 people died from coronavirus in Italy in the last 24 hours alone. Over 3000 have died in Italy in the last 2 weeks. This sort of thing is unheard of in europe since WW2. The situation in America will be many many times worse. Much higher instances of obesity, much more people with underlying conitions, no access to proper healthcare and no leadership whatsoever from the top to try and slow the spread of this virus, no testing, no contact tracing. FYI most of Trumps base are over 60 and overweight.

How could anyone possibly think that Trump could survive this? Who's going to vote for him after this? What's he going to shout about when the economy is in ruins? Even if Biden was completely senile he would still win.

eagle eye

MadYaker wrote:

How could anyone possibly think that Trump could survive this? Who's going to vote for him after this? What's he going to shout about when the economy is in ruins? Even if Biden was completely senile he would still win.

So you are saying that despite Biden's comments which were completely clueless and giving people wrong advice and potentially causing deaths that he will be trusted to be President?

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

So you are saying that despite Biden's comments which were completely clueless and giving people wrong advice and potentially causing deaths that he will be trusted to be President?

A hell of a lot more than the man who can't even observe social distancing in his press conferences. Claimed this was a hoax, removed a cdc team designed to handle this situation. And that's only the tip of the iceberg.

PyreOfHellfire

Biden's comments on the travel restriction were inept and foolish to a staggering degree, he was playing opposition politics for the sake of being on the opposing side even if it was a silly and dangerous thing to do. Trump's comments on just about everything related to the coronavirus have also been inept to an even more staggering degree. It's almost as if two men can be completely foolish and entirely wrong at the same time, who knew that was possible...?

pixelburp

There can be degrees here; Bidens initial response was poor but honestly just saying that he'd get experts around the table and take their council makes him 100% more presidential and a leader than the current President. America needs a delegator and facilitator right now, and for all his faults Biden has shown himself more capable than Trump. To quibble on the details is searching for reasons to throw a grenade into Bidens suitability.

VinLieger

eagle eye wrote: »

So you are saying that despite Biden's comments which were completely clueless and giving people wrong advice and potentially causing deaths that he will be trusted to be President?

If the trend the USA is seeing continues they will start have more new infections than Italy TODAY putting them into the 3rd highest infected country and likely leapfrog Italy on total infections in a matter of days.

But sute its bidens uninformed comments that should be blamed....

moon2

eagle eye wrote: »

So you are saying that despite Biden's comments which were completely clueless and giving people wrong advice and potentially causing deaths that he will be trusted to be President?

If we apply that logic to both Trump and Biden then yes - 100% absolutely without a doubt you, and everyone, will trust Biden to be president over Trump.

Trump's comments were several orders of magnitude more clueless. He called it a hoax perpetrated by the Democrats. He spent weeks pretending it didn't exist and telling people its all fine. You can review the tweets yourself if you want to review a primary source of this.

Who would you suggest should be president instead of Trump or Biden?

eagle eye

You have two people, one of whom will get President, who have both shown a complete disregard for common sense and their responsibility for the public's health. Biden did it only a few days ago.

The incumbent will win in a situation like that. Trump will bring it up.

Trump needs covid-19 under control and then he can look Presidential doing things to help people after the crisis has been averted. The above is how I see it playing out before the election.

Biden has done nothing only ask people to go out and vote during this. He doesn't even seem to fully grasp how serious it is.

This is the first time in my 50 years on this Earth that I don't want the Democrats to win the election. I suspect it will be the last time too. The worst President in the history of the United States of America is a better choice than his opponent imo.

He really isn't eagle... Thousands will die as a result of Trump's policies...

eagle eye

Deleted User wrote:

He really isn't eagle... Thousands will die as a result of Trump's policies...

Yeah, well I think Biden would be even worse.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah, well I think Biden would be even worse.

And this is the exact same thing people said about Clinton. I can categorically say that's Trump's presidency has consistently managed to set new lows for the role of POTUS. And unfortunately the current crisis is the cumulative damage.

eagle eye

Deleted User wrote: »

And this is the exact same thing people said about Clinton. I can categorically say that's Trump's presidency has consistently managed to set new lows for the role of POTUS. And unfortunately the current crisis is the cumulative damage.

Hilary Clinton has something that not a lot of people have and that's a dislike for her that grows the more exposure she gets. I said this back in 2014 and it never changed.

She got beat because she tried to fight Trump on his level and failed. If she had stayed above it I think she would have won.

Hilary Clinton is a lot more capable than Joe Biden. He looks done, in the early throws of dementia, doesn't seem to have a clue what is going on around him. He is not capable of being a President imo. Donald Trump is the worst President I've ever seen but he is more capable than Joe Biden. If you knew me and how much I despise Trump and the GOP you'd understand that it takes an awful lot for me to go against a Democrat. I really could not trust Biden to do the right thing.

StringerBell

You trust Trump to do the right thing, despite all evidence to the contrary, more than Biden.

You don't have to wonder with Trump, you actually have him in the job right now, all the experts and resources available to him and you see his performance. Its tough to take seriously in all honesty.

eagle eye

StringerBell wrote:

You trust Trump to do the right thing, despite all evidence to the contrary, more than Biden.

Yes, because I've seen Biden not in office do careless and clueless things. I've seen him on numerous occasions look like he is in the early throws of dementia too.
No way I could trust him.

StringerBell

eagle eye wrote: »

Yes, because I've seen Biden not in office do careless and clueless things. I've seen him on numerous occasions look like he is in the early throws of dementia too.
No way I could trust him.

But how is it you can trust Trump?

Brian?

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah, well I think Biden would be even worse.

Based on what?

Brian?

eagle eye wrote: »

Hilary Clinton has something that not a lot of people have and that's a dislike for her that grows the more exposure she gets. I said this back in 2014 and it never changed.

She got beat because she tried to fight Trump on his level and failed. If she had stayed above it I think she would have won.

Hilary Clinton is a lot more capable than Joe Biden. He looks done, in the early throws of dementia, doesn't seem to have a clue what is going on around him. He is not capable of being a President imo. Donald Trump is the worst President I've ever seen but he is more capable than Joe Biden. If you knew me and how much I despise Trump and the GOP you'd understand that it takes an awful lot for me to go against a Democrat. I really could not trust Biden to do the right thing.

Did you see the Biden v Bernie debate?

You have absolutely no evidence he's in "the early throws of dementia", yet you repeat it every day. It's shocking that you think you can diagnose dementia from afar.

Water John

If you want to see what leadership should be like, watch Andrew Cuomo's Gov NY press conference any day.
Just how far off this is the WH is astounding.

moon2

eagle eye wrote: »

You have two people, one of whom will get President, who have both shown a complete disregard for common sense and their responsibility for the public's health. Biden did it only a few days ago.

This is a little apples and oranges. You've taken Trump's continual ignorance spread over months and compared it to a single event for someone else.

This comparison is illogical.

Igotadose

Bernie should drop out now. For one, stop running primaries as they're bad ideas during a pandemic. For another, crank up the election machine full tilt by Biden without having to spend effort ($$) on primaries.

Cancelling the Democratic national convention (July) might be a responsible thing to do as well, in a month or so if restrictions aren't lifted. Take the campaign to the airwaves and online imo.

Water John

Restrictions won't lift for months, in reality. There is also the risk of a second wave in Oct/Nov.
We are in day 6 of the start of the shutdown which has been slow to ramp up. Day 15 seems to be the target to see a slow down. So the WH are thinking it may level off at the end of the month. Hope so but don't think so.

moon2

StringerBell wrote: »

But how is it you can trust Trump?

He's just trolling. The reasons he gives to declare someone unfit for government apply 10x to Trump, yet he'll give Trump a free pass.

Madness.

eagle eye

StringerBell wrote:

But how is it you can trust Trump?

I don't trust Trump but I still see him as a safer pair of hands to Joe Biden.

Brian? wrote:

Based on what?

I've been said what in very recently posts today and yesterday.

eagle eye

moon2 wrote:

He's just trolling. The reasons he gives to declare someone unfit for government apply 10x to Trump, yet he'll give Trump a free pass.

How dare you accuse me of trolling.
Biden imo is the most unfit man for office I can remember, even worse than Reagan entering his second term.

Brian?

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't trust Trump but I still see him as a safer pair of hands to Joe Biden.


I've been said what in very recently posts today and yesterday.

No you haven’t. You’ve just accused Biden of having dementia repeatedly

moon2

eagle eye wrote: »

How dare you accuse me of trolling.
Biden imo is the most unfit man for office I can remember, even worse than Reagan entering his second term.

The reasons you give for Biden being unfit apply to Trump to a far larger degree than they apply to Biden. You can understand how confusing that is for people reading your comments., which leads me to conclude you must be trolling. You're saying that the person who least matches your ideals is your most preferred choice...

eagle eye

Brian? wrote:

No you haven’t. You’ve just accused Biden of having dementia repeatedly

And about criticising Trump for restricting travel to and from China and for urging people to go out and vote a couple of days ago.

eagle eye

moon2 wrote:

The reasons you give for Biden being unfit apply to Trump to a far larger degree than they apply to Biden. You can understand how confusing that is for people reading your comments., which leads me to conclude you must be trolling. You're saying that the person who least matches your ideals is your most preferred choice...

Trump doesn't come across like he is suffering from dementia.

Also that stuff about dementia is pure spinning..

Water John

eagle eye wrote: »

Trump doesn't come across like he is suffering from dementia.

I agree with you, but he does have Narcisstic Personality Disorder and so is incapable of leading a democracy.

PropJoe10

eagle eye wrote: »

Trump doesn't come across like he is suffering from dementia.

Nope, that's an easy excuse. He's just a f**king a***hole.