US Presidential Election 2020

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Green policies are virtue signaling? So we should just carry on with destroying the environment for generations to come..

Taxing people at 70% to pay for green policies that are not economically viable is indeed virtue signalling

Cody montana

ELM327 wrote: »

Taxing people at 70% to pay for green policies that are not economically viable is indeed virtue signalling

Who is being taxed 70%?

duploelabs

ELM327 wrote: »

There's an element of, as Stringerbell describes it, face hatred.


Policy wise I disagree with her avid following of the 15USD minimum wage.


Taking her list of policies from wiki

I disagree with her (in addition to minimum wage)on

• implementing democratic socialism
• gun control
• Taxing "the rich" at 70% to pay for virtue signalling green policies
• defunding and abolishing ICE
• Her policy on undocumented illegals
• Her market controls around rents and social supports
• (obviously) her stance on Trump
• Her stance on Israel

I'm sure there's others. She's an archetype of the extreme left. Shrill shrieking feminist. Anti men, anti company and anti free market. Pretty much everything I stand for.

Which of those policies is 'anti men'?

Quin_Dub

All,
If you want to discuss AOC and her policies , feel free to open a thread.

Otherwise , lets get back on topic please.

everlast75

ELM327 wrote: »

I hate her with a passion. She's like a born again socialist.
Would prefer Hilary for president to her.

If you don't like socialism, I could refer you to a number of trump policies that might trigger you..

eire4

Well so far the US's embrace of far right disaster capitalism has worked out as a great deal for the major corporations and wealthy in the US not so much for the vast majority of their population though. But hey if for profit healthy care, massive income inequality, destroying the environment etc are your thing then your loving the current state of affairs.

It is the US who have lead the push for so many of these so called "free" trade deals which really are sell outs that destroy so many lives as they create a race to the bottom with major corporations finding whatever country will allow them to use the cheapest labour effectively modern day slave labour. With of course next to no regulations so they can pollute away and not give a care in the world about anyone's health and safety.

sid waddell

Any theories on this "Bitcoin" Twitter hack?

Looks like the hackers are cranking things up ahead of the election.

This seems to me to be a shot across the bows from a state, a show of strength that if a load of high profile Twitter accounts can be hacked, then America's election infrastructure can be easily hacked.

Russia is the obvious candidate.

BonnieSituation

sid waddell wrote: »

Any theories on this "Bitcoin" Twitter hack?

Looks like the hackers are cranking things up ahead of the election.

This seems to me to be a shot across the bows from a state, a show of strength that if a load of high profile Twitter accounts can be hacked, then America's election infrastructure can be easily hacked.

Russia is the obvious candidate.

The problem with the way things are now people will just shrug as it is the sort of thing that is expected. It's pretty frightening.

As you say this was a "shot across the bows" and the start of a concerted effort I would say, to almost normalise hacking in the lead up to November.

sid waddell

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The problem with the way things are now people will just shrug as it is the sort of thing that is expected. It's pretty frightening.

As you say this was a "shot across the bows" and the start of a concerted effort I would say, to almost normalise hacking in the lead up to November.

Yep, and what's much scarier is that doing precisely nothing about the threat of such hacking has become normalised by the Republicans.

TomOnBoard

The Trump campaign had a bit of a shake-up today with Parscale moved out as Campaign Manager. After Tulsa, I'm surprised he lasted this long..

I'm sure he'll get to keep the yacht and the Ferrari though... He'll have a bit more time to use them in his demoted role....

Rjd2

Igotadose wrote: »

Foreign policy doesn't matter to Trump. It matters to lots of Americans, always had, always will. As for Venezuela, Trump called Guaido "weak." Is that good foreign policy? Is it immaterial? No. And sanctioning Maduro is a good thing.

o.

If it mattered so much to Americans, the Democrats the "left wing" party would not have picked Biden who supported the Iraq war. If the Iraq war mattered the Republicans who supported it would not have found a home in the Biden coalition, people like Frum, Rubin etc are rock stars in the media these days.

Biden will be better on many issues, but when it comes to foreign policy he won't be hugely different than Trump. He will just have the MSNBC mob cheerleading on his hawkishness. So that's not a defense of Trump, both are right wing hawks in their own special way.

Again it doesn't matter a **** to Americans which is pretty ****ing depressing.

I'd love to see Omar get the presidency sooner rather than later she out of all the squad seems the strongest.

Rjd2

TomOnBoard wrote: »

The Trump campaign had a bit of a shake-up today with Parscale moved out as Campaign Manager. After Tulsa, I'm surprised he lasted this long..

I'm sure he'll get to keep the yacht and the Ferrari though... He'll have a bit more time to use them in his demoted role....

Pretty sure everything he has done is signed of by son in law, so if you are a Trump fan hoping with him gone that his campaign is going to come back roaring back to life with his replacement who will be picked by guess then ,,,,oh dear.

duploelabs

Rjd2 wrote: »

If it mattered so much to Americans, the Democrats the "left wing" party would not have picked Biden who supported the Iraq war. If the Iraq war mattered the Republicans who supported it would not have found a home in the Biden coalition, people like Frum, Rubin etc are rock stars in the media these days.

Biden will be better on many issues, but when it comes to foreign policy he won't be hugely different than Trump. He will just have the MSNBC mob cheerleading on his hawkishness. So that's not a defense of Trump, both are right wing hawks in their own special way.

Again it doesn't matter a **** to Americans which is pretty ****ing depressing.

I'd love to see Omar get the presidency sooner rather than later she out of all the squad seems the strongest.

You're still to explain what of her policies are 'anti men' as you described

everlast75

TomOnBoard wrote: »

The Trump campaign had a bit of a shake-up today with Parscale moved out as Campaign Manager. After Tulsa, I'm surprised he lasted this long..

I'm sure he'll get to keep the yacht and the Ferrari though... He'll have a bit more time to use them in his demoted role....

Some details on the guy that's replacing him....

https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1283606141034008576?s=19

TomOnBoard

Talk about being eminently well qualified for Team Trump if Chris Christie believed : "I was disturbed by the tone and behavior and attitude of callous indifference that was displayed in the emails by my former campaign manager, Bill Stepien."

Himself and Kelly Anne should go well together. Meanwhile, Brad stays on and continues to get well paid...just as well for him, coz the payments on that Ferrari are crippling. ..anyway, they couldn't fire him completely as he controls so much of the messaging / social media tools. He also knows waaay too much about where bad stuff has been done since 2015 for him to be let loose as a free agent...

Penn

Trump keeping his promise as per usual and only hiring the "best" people.

Overheal

Isn't it also possible he just has Roger Stone back in play now too?

spacecoyote

Overheal wrote: »

Isn't it also possible he just has Roger Stone back in play now too?

I don't think that he could publicly bring Stone in, but 100% he'll be involved behind closed doors

TomOnBoard

Overheal wrote: »

Isn't it also possible he just has Roger Stone back in play now too?

I'd say for sure... Tucker Carslon also.

Both in the heavily involved background. ..

Tell me how

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I'd say for sure... Tucker Carslon also.

Both in the heavily involved background. ..

Tucker Carlson going on 'vacation' now doesn't seem like someone which would have been desired by the Trump Campaign.

Overheal

Tucker is where the campaign wants him: kicking up screed in a nightly monologue. Along with Hannity, who makes zero secret that he is all but an agent of the Trump administration itself. Not to mention the carbuncle that is Rush Limbaugh.

Tell me how

Overheal wrote: »

Tucker is where the campaign wants him: kicking up screed in a nightly monologue. Along with Hannity, who makes zero secret that he is all but an agent of the Trump administration itself. Not to mention the carbuncle that is Rush Limbaugh.

That is why I think him going on this 'vacation' is not what they would have wanted at this time.

Tucker Carlson Takes ‘Long-Planned’ Vacation After Writer Quits Over Racist Posts

(I'd put my house on it being 'long planned' as being BS)

TomOnBoard

Tell me how wrote: »

Tucker Carlson going on 'vacation' now doesn't seem like someone which would have been desired by the Trump Campaign.

He had to go on vacation after his scriptwriter was called out for white supremacist writings.. Like any Fox presenter who pisses off advertisers, he went on a 'long-planned' vacation 24 hours after yer man was fired...

What better way for an ultra right wing loon to spend such an enforced 'vacation' than trying to ensure the survival of his biggest meal ticket....

Sure beats sitting at home watching Gone with the Wind!

Overheal

Tell me how wrote: »

That is why I think him going on this 'vacation' is not what they would have wanted at this time.

Tucker Carlson Takes ‘Long-Planned’ Vacation After Writer Quits Over Racist Posts

(I'd put my house on it being 'long planned' as being BS)

It's FNC, the vaction is always "long-planned" but they're under no illusion that nobody outside their bubble buys that, it is purely for the benefit of viewership that watches them exclusively.

Tell me how

TomOnBoard wrote: »

He had to go on vacation after his scriptwriter was called out for white supremacist writings.. Like any Fox presenter who pisses off advertisers, he went on a 'long-planned' vacation 24 hours after yer man was fired...

What better way for an ultra right wing loon to spend such an enforced 'vacation' than trying to ensure the survival of his biggest meal ticket....

Sure beats sitting at home watching Gone with the Wind!

Yeah, I know why he is on vacation, that's why I'm saying his claim that it was 'Long planned' is nonsense.

But, his show was the most watched cable news show (I'm 90% sure) over the last quarter so to not have him preaching Trumps gospel to the masses at this time is not ideal for them.

everlast75

The only way Carlson can be damaged is by sponsors pulling out.

If that doesn't happen, he will be free to preach his hate fuelled nonsense for the foreseeable future.

Quin_Dub

Overheal wrote: »

Tucker is where the campaign wants him: kicking up screed in a nightly monologue. Along with Hannity, who makes zero secret that he is all but an agent of the Trump administration itself. Not to mention the carbuncle that is Rush Limbaugh.

Ah yes , Rush Limbaugh.

Who said yesterday that US Citizens dealing with Covid19 should channel the stoicism and can-do attitude that the Donner Party showed during their travails. The Donner Party, who resorted to Cannibalism to survive being trapped in the Snow in the Sierra Nevada Mountains back in 1846.

Yup.. Harden up America.

As Rush says when extolling those good ole Donner Party values so sadly lacking in the youth of today.

They didn’t complain about it, because there was nothing they could do. They had to adapt. This is what’s missing. There seems to be no concept of adaptation. There seems to be no understanding in the Millennial generation that we can adapt to this, and that we’re going to have to.

Tell me how

everlast75 wrote: »

The only way Carlson can be damaged is by sponsors pulling out.

If that doesn't happen, he will be free to preach his hate fuelled nonsense for the foreseeable future.

Another reason why the 'planned vacation' was enacted I suspect.

Since he made those statements and others, prominent companies including the Walt Disney Company, Papa John’s, Poshmark and T-Mobile have distanced themselves from “Tucker Carlson Tonight,” joining other businesses that have backed away from the show in recent years.

Rjd2

duploelabs wrote: »

You're still to explain what of her policies are 'anti men' as you described

Eh ?

No such thing as an anti man politician,,maybe some fringe loons in nations who get about 12 votes in a primary.

Many female politicians left and right I disagree with, but none of them are anti men.

TomOnBoard wrote: »

He had to go on vacation after his scriptwriter was called out for white supremacist writings.. Like any Fox presenter who pisses off advertisers, he went on a 'long-planned' vacation 24 hours after yer man was fired...

What better way for an ultra right wing loon to spend such an enforced 'vacation' than trying to ensure the survival of his biggest meal ticket....

Sure beats sitting at home watching Gone with the Wind!

Tucker is insanely wealthy due to his family, he will be fine without Trump.

He is awful but his ratings are through the roof, even if he was to be fired he'd land on his feet somewhere else and again he doesn't need to work ever again.

Rjd2

Tell me how wrote: »

Another reason why the 'planned vacation' was enacted I suspect.

Nah, the ratings have gone through the roof since then, its the main writer been a racist which is the real issue. From all accounts Tucker is quite lax when it comes to checking this stuff out, so assume he has been told to get his house in order.

StringerBell

Officially went past the 70k cases reported in a day today.

TomOnBoard

StringerBell wrote: »

Officially went past the 70k cases reported in a day today.

I was speaking with someone in L.A. earlier today. While it's never been other than a Dem stronghold (although it did give Stephen Miller to the world), she was saying that the anger against Republicans from Trump through the Governors of Georgia, Texas and particularly Florida is virulent now compared to last March. It's not just because of Covid, it's about how much they're in total denial and ****ting on the efforts of ppl like Newsome who they see as trying very hard to do their best in a dreadful situation. That is the sense of betrayal that will fester in other States and will lead to a day of reckoning...

sid waddell

The era of the poll tax is back. Jesus wept.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/07/supreme-court-florida-felons-poll-tax.html

The Supreme Court all but guaranteed that nearly 1 million Floridians will be unable to vote in the 2020 election because of unpaid court debts in a shattering order handed down on Thursday. Its decision will throw Florida’s voter registration into chaos, placing a huge number of would-be voters in legal limbo and even opening them up to prosecution for casting a ballot. The justices have effectively permitted Florida Republicans to impose a poll tax in November.

eagle eye

sid waddell wrote:

The Supreme Court all but guaranteed that nearly 1 million Floridians will be unable to vote in the 2020 election because of unpaid court debts in a shattering order handed down on Thursday. Its decision will throw Florida’s voter registration into chaos, placing a huge number of would-be voters in legal limbo and even opening them up to prosecution for casting a ballot. The justices have effectively permitted Florida Republicans to impose a poll tax in November.

Are you saying that all those who have unpaid court debts are Democrat voters?
I'm asking because I can't see how this favours one side over the other.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Are you saying that all those who have unpaid court debts are Democrat voters?
I'm asking because I can't see how this favours one side over the other.

It's voter suppression based on wealth, do you think they've brought it in because of concerns about bills not being paid up? They've made a reasonable weighted decision that a party that ex felons regaining their vote are unlikely to wish to vote for the party that supports the privatisation of prisons.

Larbre34

Trump trailing by between 11-14 points by all Polls due to publish by Sunday.

"Things have grown so dire for Trump that non-partisan political handicappers are now predicting a Democratic takeover of the Senate due to Trump's current disastrous polling numbers. Talk of Republicans retaking the House majority is nonexistent. Every sign is pointing to an apocalyptic election for Republicans -- one that could set the party back at the state and national level for years, if not decades." - Chris Cillizza, CNN.

Quin_Dub

Larbre34 wrote: »

Trump trailing by between 11-14 points by all Polls due to publish by Sunday.

"Things have grown so dire for Trump that non-partisan political handicappers are now predicting a Democratic takeover of the Senate due to Trump's current disastrous polling numbers. Talk of Republicans retaking the House majority is nonexistent. Every sign is pointing to an apocalyptic election for Republicans -- one that could set the party back at the state and national level for years, if not decades." - Chris Cillizza, CNN.

Indeed - Republicans are sounding the alarm Big time.

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., told "Hannity" on Thursday that it is crucial for Republicans to win big in the fall because otherwise, as he put it, "I don't know if we'll ever have an opportunity to win it again."


"They will change the rules of the game," McCarthy told host Sean Hannity. "How we vote, they will change — you know, in California they allow people who are not even citizens to vote in school board races. You know, in California, they lowered the voting age to 17. Do you know, in California, that you could turn your ballot in 17 days after the election?

"Those are things they're doing right now," he added. "That's what they'll do across the country ... they'll expand the Supreme Court, there won't be 50 states, there will be 52 states ...

Trying to shift the story away from being a vote on Trump to being a vote about the future of the GOP and Conservatism in general.

They know that if it's about Trump they are hosed , he is utterly Toxic beyond their limited base.

Since January, Americans' party preferences have shifted dramatically in the Democratic Party's direction. What had been a two-percentage-point Republican advantage in U.S. party identification and leaning has become an 11-point Democratic advantage, with more of that movement reflecting a loss in Republican identification and leaning (down eight points) than a gain in Democratic identification and leaning (up five points).

They are losing the "Republican leaning" Independents in droves.

pixelburp

California California California; man Republicans know their audience when they trot out that great liberal godless state the Flyovers all like to hate - but couldn't survive without its wealth propping up their own.

I do chortle at McCarthy effectively admitting his brand / party are toxic to younger people and given the chance, would be voted out of power. But then, again, he's speaking on Hannity so knows precisely the demographic he's speaking to. Scared old white people fearful Porto Rico might get statehood.

eagle eye

Deleted User wrote:

It's voter suppression based on wealth, do you think they've brought it in because of concerns about bills not being paid up? They've made a reasonable weighted decision that a party that ex felons regaining their vote are unlikely to wish to vote for the party that supports the privatisation of prisons.

I think that's a big stretch. Have you figures for how many ex-felons actually vote? I doubt it's in any way significant.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

I think that's a big stretch. Have you figures for how many ex-felons actually vote? I doubt it's in any way significant.

That's specifically the group that's being targeted... So pretty clear suppression.

Quin_Dub

eagle eye wrote: »

I think that's a big stretch. Have you figures for how many ex-felons actually vote? I doubt it's in any way significant.

Up to the recent change - None of them did because they weren't allowed.

Floridians voted 2:1 to give them the vote in 2018 and then the GOP State government decided that they would not give them the vote that they were now entitled to until they "paid their bills".

However, no one can tell anyone exactly who owes what as they have no staff or database to process this information.

So even if someone was a wealthy ex-felon they are unlikely to be able to vote in November as no one can give you a bill to pay.

They needed to hire an additional ~30 staff to clear this backlog between 2018 and November and they refused to do so. Staff that could have been paid for many times over with the monies collected

They now estimate that it will take them over 3 years to actually collate and process all of these "bills" to allow people who should be entitled to vote to actually cast a vote.


And yes , it is voter suppression pure and simple to benefit the GOP. Felons and ex-Felons are heavily weighted towards demographic grooups that typically heavily favour voting Democrat - Blacks , Hispanic , Lower Income categories etc.

Do you honestly think that a GOP led State legislature wouldn't have hired the people to get this done in a flash if they thought that there were hundreds of thousand of votes available to them in a Swing State????

eagle eye

Well of we are crying about ex-felons rights we've reached a new low I think. It's hardly that important is it?

pixelburp

If somebody has served their debt to society and are entitled to vote, they should be allowed to vote just like all others. It's not "a new low" just basic democratic enfranchisement and easy to defend rights for people you like or believe in, but it counts for everyone. As glib as it might be to assume every criminal is a recidivist, or incarcerated for high crimes and misdemeanours, plenty were locked up for minor stuff or just want to make something of their lives. They're entitled to do so.

frag420

eagle eye wrote: »

Well of we are crying about ex-felons rights we've reached a new low I think. It's hardly that important is it?

If it wasn’t that important then why are the GOP doing everything they can to suppress it, it’s hardly that important to them is it?

Quin_Dub

eagle eye wrote: »

Well of we are crying about ex-felons rights we've reached a new low I think. It's hardly that important is it?

It's only the start of the GOPs efforts at Voter suppression.

Something that has gone under the radar massively is the removal of the "Consent Decree"

Basically following a lawsuit in 1982 the Consent decree made it illegal for Political parties to harass voters at polling stations etc. etc.

That decree was struck down in 2019. So this will be the 1st election in almost 40 years without that protection.

The GOP have already hired 50,000 "Poll Observers" who will be tasked with "checking" that people are eligible to vote

Depending on the state, poll watchers enlisted by political parties can challenge a voter’s eligibility based on their address, citizenship, and even the date they registered to vote. Michigan law, for instance, says poll watchers need only “good reason” to pull a prospective voter out of line and challenge their eligibility. North Carolina allows anyone registered to vote with “good moral character” (whatever that means) to work as a poll watcher. Even in Oregon and Washington state, where elections are conducted by mail, poll watchers can observe county clerks count mail-in ballots and make challenges when they see fit.

So they will stop , question and intimidate people of a particular type to try to stop them from voting

Josh Helton, a lawyer who has advised the National Republican Senatorial Committee, has described Philadelphia, where black people make up 41 percent of the population, as “probably the epicenter for voter fraud in this country” and a likely target for the GOP’s 2020 poll-watching efforts.

This article is a longish read , but well worth it to understand the lengths to which the GOP will go to stop people voting if they think that they aren't voting for them.

They have already spent 10's of millions on court cases to try to block any attempts at expanding voting access and will spend a lot more before and during the election to try to block as many votes as possible.

As Trump himself said "If all those people voted you'd never have a Republican voted in again!"

TomOnBoard

eagle eye wrote: »

I think that's a big stretch. Have you figures for how many ex-felons actually vote? I doubt it's in any way significant.

You're only trotting out "Butt Shure" codology and clearly don't have a clue of the issues involved. It's a very important issue that cuts to voter suppression in Florida and it's a disgrace that the Florida Republicans have such control over who gets to cast their vote. Pure and utter Jim Crow tactics straight out of post Civil War policies designed to keep the South in the the control of the Good Old Boys...

TomOnBoard

pixelburp wrote: »

If somebody has served their debt to society and are entitled to vote, they should be allowed to vote just like all others. It's not "a new low" just basic democratic enfranchisement and easy to defend rights for people you like or believe in, but it counts for everyone. As glib as it might be to assume every criminal is a recidivist, or incarcerated for high crimes and misdemeanours, plenty were locked up for minor stuff or just want to make something of their lives. They're entitled to do so.

And add to that, you became a felon in the first place through a criminal justice system that was stacked against you at every turn if you were non-white. Plea bargaining resulted in hundreds of thousands of innocent people being locked up because Prosecutorial tactics relied on avoiding jury trials and forcing non-whites to plead lesser charges EVEN WHEN TOTALLY INNOCENT to trade a few years of jail time rather than risk decades behind bars through reliance on a broken public defender system. Often times, black lads were sent down for years for possession of some Mary Jane while white lads could buy their way out of trouble by being able to afford a good defense. All these issues were fully aired before the vote and the people decided. But the Good Old Boys simply won't let go, and will do everything in their power to prevent what they see as lesser people from practicing their democratic right. And the Good Ole Boy network is entirely GOP based.

eagle eye

Quin_Dub wrote:

It's only the start of the GOPs efforts at Voter suppression.

TomOnBoard wrote:

You're only trotting out "Butt Shure" codology and clearly don't have a clue of the issues involved. It's a very important issue that cuts to voter suppression in Florida and it's a disgrace that the Florida Republicans have such control over who gets to cast their vote. Pure and utter Jim Crow tactics straight out of post Civil War policies designed to keep the South in the the control of the Good Old Boys...

Well Tom you spelt butt with two t's which I hope was a mistake and not done inference.

Anyhow, you see its a smart move by the Republicans if people bite because when it's a serious move at voter suppression it'll be ignored by most. They'll just hear it and think they've heard about it already.

This is my point, this isn't something to get excited about. Hold your fire until it's important as the message diminishes the more it's brought up.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Well of we are crying about ex-felons rights we've reached a new low I think. It's hardly that important is it?

I think it's reasonable to view any effort to suppress voters is an important issue. I wouldn't classify it as a low.

eagle eye wrote: »

Well Tom you spelt butt with two t's which I hope was a mistake and not done inference.

Anyhow, you see its a smart move by the Republicans if people bite because when it's a serious move at voter suppression it'll be ignored by most. They'll just hear it and think they've heard about it already.

This is my point, this isn't something to get excited about. Hold your fire until it's important as the message diminishes the more it's brought up.

This is a serious move at suppression. I think it's reasonable for every case of it to be given the very real attention or deserves. The minor cases all build up to a systemic issue.

Water John

In Ireland prisoners have a right to vote. The judge in a court sends you to prison for an offence, that's your punishment, nobody else can arbitrarily decide add ons.
Every adult citizen has a right to vote.