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Dirty carpet in new rental property
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10pennymixup wrote:So you believe that it's brilliant that legislation is totally anti landlord and that any excuse the RTB comes down on the side of the tenant?
You believe that the RTB is stacked in favour of the tenant.10pennymixup wrote:I'm glad you were able to use the RTB to sort out your little problems with the bad LL's 4 times, but to say that it is brilliant that the law is totally one sided is quite pathetic.
You belittle a poster with the above comment10pennymixup wrote:There is nothing brilliant about it.
You do not like RTB10pennymixup wrote:You've quoted my original post. Assuming you read it and don't understand (you don't have to agree) the point I made, then there is not much I can do. If you lost a RTB adjudication in the last few years as a tenant, the only way I could further explain the point I made would be personally insult you. I have no need or wish to do that.
What I don't understand is first you say RTB is stacked in favour of the tenant. Then you say you don't like RTB. Then you say that you have won every time with the RTB. Can you not see you are not making sense?
You've had a few bad tenants. Most of us learn from this & improve our screening process. The brothel thing can happen to anyone. They usually don't last long and in fairness these are usually well kept.
Since the early 90s I've gotten at least two months rent deposit. I've had bank statements and references from employers. We phone employers & double check. I've always been happy having a property empty longer & get the right tenant. I never show a property while the old tenants are still there. I like one party to leave & get the premises looking good before I show it. If I have to get cleaners in then it comes out of the last guy deposit. I have the same colour paint in all of the properties. I have a guy goes in between letting to paint. Even if it was done 12 months ago he'll spend an hour or so touching up scuff marks. It pays for itself as I rarely have to do a full paint job. It also leaves a freshly painted smell for when showing the property. Same guy checks everything. Tightens any loose screws, kitchen cabinets, lockers, drawers etc. The property is left in such a way that any damage has to be paid for. There is no wear & tear when everything is put right before every letting.0 -
Many landlords show the property with the last tenants still in the property. This works in the landlords favour as the property won't be empty for weeks on end. It's a major disadvantage for people viewing the property as they can't see everything because of someone else's clutter.
Many people, I'll even go as far as most people, viewing a property with the last tenants still in the property would assume that the property would be cleaned either by the existing tenant or the landlord before the new tenant moved in.
If my neighbour asked for a loan of any garden tools I'd make sure I gave them to him clean. He in turn wouldn't give them back covered in muck. It's common courtesy.
I would never hand over a dirty property. It wouldn't matter if the lease was signed or not or if they viewed it dirty. It's a reflection on me and how I carry out business. It would be clean and I expect it back clean. If I get it back dirty I stop the cost of a cleaner from their deposit so it costs me nothing to rent it out clean.
You have a point actually. Your right.0 -
10pennymixup wrote: »You've quoted my original post. Assuming you read it and don't understand (you don't have to agree) the point I made, then there is not much I can do. If you lost a RTB adjudication in the last few years as a tenant, the only way I could further explain the point I made would be personally insult you. I have no need or wish to do that.
If you lost as a LL, then how about answering my question? How far did it get you, how much money have you actually received?
So which is it, the cases you lost, LL or tenant?
I will explain it on your behalf.
RTB is very one sided and the odds are stacked against ll. If a tenant looses when the RTB try and find a way to fight your side, then you must have been 110pc wrong while in another case even if in reality the tenant was wrong the ll still has a 50/50 chance of loosing if they missed some slight documentation etc for example the skip that had to be used in the other posters case.0 -
You believe that the RTB is stacked in favour of the tenant.
You belittle a poster with the above comment
You do not like RTB
What I don't understand is first you say RTB is stacked in favour of the tenant. Then you say you don't like RTB. Then you say that you have won every time with the RTB. Can you not see you are not making sense?
You've had a few bad tenants. Most of us learn from this & improve our screening process. The brothel thing can happen to anyone. They usually don't last long and in fairness these are usually well kept.
Since the early 90s I've gotten at least two months rent deposit. I've had bank statements and references from employers. We phone employers & double check. I've always been happy having a property empty longer & get the right tenant. I never show a property while the old tenants are still there. I like one party to leave & get the premises looking good before I show it. If I have to get cleaners in then it comes out of the last guy deposit. I have the same colour paint in all of the properties. I have a guy goes in between letting to paint. Even if it was done 12 months ago he'll spend an hour or so touching up scuff marks. It pays for itself as I rarely have to do a full paint job. It also leaves a freshly painted smell for when showing the property. Same guy checks everything. Tightens any loose screws, kitchen cabinets, lockers, drawers etc. The property is left in such a way that any damage has to be paid for. There is no wear & tear when everything is put right before every letting.
His logic can make sense, you can win a case but still not be happy with the judge. For example I’m sure if you had a child and they were killed, and the judge gave the killer 10 years in jail and he will be out in 5. You won the case but your not happy with how it was run. Same goes for RTB. They are very slow,inefficient and what they achieve can be very little for ll, even if they give an order for a tenant to vacate or pay damages, since it doesn’t really mean much, you may never see your payment in damages or it might take another 6 months for tenants to move on.
It’s still like playing Russian roulette with tenants. Some people can put on a good show and then you only find out what they are like after they move in.
It seems like you needlessly spend extra money When it isn’t needed and you intentially loose a few weeks rent by not showing the place out until previous tenant moves out. The whole point of a business is to maximize profits and minimize costs while your train of thought is reversed0 -
His logic can make sense, you can win a case but still not be happy with the judge. For example I’m sure if you had a child and they were killed, and the judge gave the killer 10 years in jail and he will be out in 5. You won the case but your not happy with how it was run.
first off if you get 10 years you have to do 7.5 out of the 10. It's 25 percent remission in Ireland but that aside In the above example as a parent I would not be happy with any sentence. Life sentence is average 14 years & we don't have a death penalty. I've yet to hear of a victim that's happy with the sentence given. I think some landlords expect too much from the RTB
I rarely engage with other landlords here on boards as it turns to bellyaching very quickly. It's up to us to protect ourselves. It's up to us to make the proper checks on new tenants. I like to see bank statements with steady income. Credit card statements showing paying the minimum each month show a risky tenant imo. Even when a landlord gets it wrong & there's a 3k shortfall in the rent or 3k damages it only costs us 1.5k because if you got the 3k in rent you'd be lucky to see 1.5k after tax.
I also see the tenants side of things. Because I work in shower repair I am in 5 to 8 homes everyday. Some private & some rented. I get there to be told that they have had no shower for two weeks some times. Hey I heard about it less than 12 hours ago & I'm here. Tenant would ring landlord & might take a day or so to make contact. Landlord comes down, takes the shower cover off to have a look. He then says he will send his plumber. another few days go by & the plumber turns out to be the same guy the landlord called his electrician only a few months back. Plumber or electrician had can't repair it. Anyway eventually I get called only to find an antique long past it's natural working life but landlord still wants to repair rather than replace.
I even had a time where the landlord met me there. I diagnosed the problem & quoted supply & fit the part. "Hang on" he says, goes out to the car (a Shiny Merc not a year old) & comes back with a box of broken showers. "I have parts here".I told him to F off & left. For starters if I put a 2nd hand part in a shower & the shower goes on fire it's my fault & comes off my insurance.
When you work in these properties you see what the tenant has to put up with. This is the type on nonsense you'd expect in old bedsits where at least the rent is cheap but people are paying top dollar right now, at least in Dublin they are.If their carpet is dirty before they move in I don't think it a big ask to have it cleaned. You get to stop it out of the last tenants deposit anyway. The problem is some landlords stop it from the last tenant but pocket the money leaving the dirty carpet.
There are bad tenants but there are a lot of out & out scummy landlords out there too. I do not include any landlords commenting on this thread in that remark as I don't know you but any tradesmen or appliance repair companies will back me up in my comments.
Landlords love a tenant that doesn't bother them too much. Sometimes this is a bad thing. Sometimes this tenant is repairing things themselves this can include electrical appliances. Without trying to stereotype these would usually be foreign nationals where this might be the done thing in their own country. I don't see these as great tenants to have as they can cause a fire or your next tenant can be electrocuted because of their repairs.0 -
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The thing is - the landlord has his problems.
But someone who is signing up to pay him 1500 a month shouldnt have to worry about them.0 -
Fol20 wrote:he Didn’t say it’s ok to be dirty, your assuming and putting your own words into the mix to spin it. He just pointed at a blaring example that isn’t fair to landlords
Eh he made it very clear in all his posts that lease is signed and he wouldn't care how dirty it is he would not get it cleaned. I argued that myself and most reasonable landlords would not get it cleaned but it wouldn't have been dirty when new tenants moved in. My standards are higher than that & I expect high standards from my tenants
Again making it up as you go along. Never said it was acceptable to rent a dirty place. The OP hasnt put up photos of this supposed dirty carpet but has had time to start a posting in askaboutmoney for the same issue.0 -
Fol20 wrote:he Didn’t say it’s ok to be dirty, your assuming and putting your own words into the mix to spin it. He just pointed at a blaring example that isn’t fair to landlords
Eh he made it very clear in all his posts that lease is signed and he wouldn't care how dirty it is he would not get it cleaned. I argued that myself and most reasonable landlords would not get it cleaned but it wouldn't have been dirty when new tenants moved in. My standards are higher than that & I expect high standards from my tenants
Again making it up as you go along. Never said it was acceptable to rent a dirty place. The OP hasnt put up photos of this supposed dirty carpet but has had time to start a posting in askaboutmoney for the same issue.0 -
first off if you get 10 years you have to do 7.5 out of the 10. It's 25 percent remission in Ireland but that aside In the above example as a parent I would not be happy with any sentence. Life sentence is average 14 years & we don't have a death penalty. I've yet to hear of a victim that's happy with the sentence given. I think some landlords expect too much from the RTB
I rarely engage with other landlords here on boards as it turns to bellyaching very quickly. It's up to us to protect ourselves. It's up to us to make the proper checks on new tenants. I like to see bank statements with steady income. Credit card statements showing paying the minimum each month show a risky tenant imo. Even when a landlord gets it wrong & there's a 3k shortfall in the rent or 3k damages it only costs us 1.5k because if you got the 3k in rent you'd be lucky to see 1.5k after tax.
I also see the tenants side of things. Because I work in shower repair I am in 5 to 8 homes everyday. Some private & some rented. I get there to be told that they have had no shower for two weeks some times. Hey I heard about it less than 12 hours ago & I'm here. Tenant would ring landlord & might take a day or so to make contact. Landlord comes down, takes the shower cover off to have a look. He then says he will send his plumber. another few days go by & the plumber turns out to be the same guy the landlord called his electrician only a few months back. Plumber or electrician had can't repair it. Anyway eventually I get called only to find an antique long past it's natural working life but landlord still wants to repair rather than replace.
I even had a time where the landlord met me there. I diagnosed the problem & quoted supply & fit the part. "Hang on" he says, goes out to the car (a Shiny Merc not a year old) & comes back with a box of broken showers. "I have parts here".I told him to F off & left. For starters if I put a 2nd hand part in a shower & the shower goes on fire it's my fault & comes off my insurance.
When you work in these properties you see what the tenant has to put up with. This is the type on nonsense you'd expect in old bedsits where at least the rent is cheap but people are paying top dollar right now, at least in Dublin they are.If their carpet is dirty before they move in I don't think it a big ask to have it cleaned. You get to stop it out of the last tenants deposit anyway. The problem is some landlords stop it from the last tenant but pocket the money leaving the dirty carpet.
There are bad tenants but there are a lot of out & out scummy landlords out there too. I do not include any landlords commenting on this thread in that remark as I don't know you but any tradesmen or appliance repair companies will back me up in my comments.
Landlords love a tenant that doesn't bother them too much. Sometimes this is a bad thing. Sometimes this tenant is repairing things themselves this can include electrical appliances. Without trying to stereotype these would usually be foreign nationals where this might be the done thing in their own country. I don't see these as great tenants to have as they can cause a fire or your next tenant can be electrocuted because of their repairs.
All ll expect from the RTB is that they are fair and just which they are not as it’s geared toward protecting tenants. Likewise if there is an enforcement order in place to leave or to pay back rent arrears it should be enforced but it isn’t really. This is very basic and if you think that is too much, what’s the point of them.
Yes your right, more than likely we would net a max of 50pc of that rent arrears but it’s still our money and technically it’s stealing as they have received a service and not paid for it. More than likely the value wouldn’t be 3k and can be up to a years rent so you could be talking 20knpotentially in Dublin. The value doesn’t matter here though. Even if it’s just 100e we’re due. It’s still a service we provided so again, just going back to the business aspect I mentioned earlier, you don’t seem to care too much that your not taking in all the profit your due.
Yes your right, there are dodgy ll out there as you pointed out in your own experience but there are equally as much bad tenants out there however the cost incurred is much more for a dodgy tenant with no recall on damage or money due. Likewise based on your own day job, I’m not surprised you have some ll that are like that as some of them will be that cheap to the bitter end. Personally I would never bother going that extreme as tbh if parts in machines break down, it’s nearly half the cost of getting a replacement part for a machine that could be 5 years old that will more than likely break down again so I’d be more inclined just to replace it, especially if it’s only about 150 for a new shower unit ex labour.
Yes, ll like tenants that don’t bother them, I think your going to an extreme if you think a ll would like them to do electric works themself as it potentially could invalidate their insurance. Iv seen some live open wires in some places Iv inspected and couldn’t believe the sight of them.
I just find it strange that you appear to be on the side of the tenant much more than ll when normally you look out for your own vested interested and try to remain as objective as possible however most of your comments have been against ll(even though you say your a ll)0 -
I've had bank statements and references from employers. We phone employers & double check
Jesus. More power to you if it's allowed you to get the right tenants but if I was asked for bank statements you can jog right on.
I understand payslips - you can see that I'm earning a regular wage each month, that's fine. Combing through statements as another poster claims to do looking at minimum credit card repayments is a vile invasion of privacy though.0 -
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Captain Flaps wrote: »Jesus. More power to you if it's allowed you to get the right tenants but if I was asked for bank statements you can jog right on.
I understand payslips - you can see that I'm earning a regular wage each month, that's fine. Combing through statements as another poster claims to do looking at minimum credit card repayments is a vile invasion of privacy though.
It isn’t a violation of privacy if the tenants provide it. You have the right to decline however this can jeopardize your chances of getting the place so depending on your situation it’s up to yourself. Personally, I’m more interested in payslip/yearly salary to check out affordability but again if people decline, I would normally just look elsewhere0 -
I totally understand, and I believe payslip is a fair way to ascertain affordability. I just don't see any reason to give a landlord my bank statement. What info can you glean from that that you can't from my payslip?0
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handlemaster wrote:Again making it up as you go along. Never said it was acceptable to rent a dirty place. The OP hasnt put up photos of this supposed dirty carpet but has had time to start a posting in askaboutmoney for the same issue.
In all of your posts you have insisted that property was viewed & lease signed so no clean carpetsFol20 wrote:Yes your right, more than likely we would net a max of 50pc of that rent arrears but it’s still our money and technically it’s stealing as they have received a service and not paid for it. More than likely the value wouldn’t be 3k and can be up to a years rent so you could be talking 20knpotentially in Dublin. The value doesn’t matter here though. Even if it’s just 100e we’re due. It’s still a service we provided so again, just going back to the business aspect I mentioned earlier, you don’t seem to care too much that your not taking in all the profit your due.
I'm part of a plumbing group on Facebook. Some members have installed entire heating system and can't get paid. Shops build insurance "slippage" (shoplifting) into their prices. People default on loans. Only a few months ago I installed a shower in Balbriggan. Landlord was nice as pie till it came to paying. She thought she'd be clever and not answer the phone to me or reply to texts and emails. After a few weeks of getting nowhere I had to go back and take my property back. Every business in the world has issues but landlords are the only ones that seem to moan about them constantly. You need to pick yourself up and move onCaptain Flaps wrote:Jesus. More power to you if it's allowed you to get the right tenants but if I was asked for bank statements you can jog right on.
You are entitled to ask for anything you want. If they don't want to give bank & card statements then I would just move on. There's 10 more in the queue willing to prove that they are good tenants. Bank & card statements can have the account number blanked out. All I need is name and address. Anyone paying the minimum on a credit card each month is living on expensive credit and is likely not to be a good tenant. I stay clear of these altogether
Also I get phone numbers of last few landlords. If the tenant was trouble free for the last three years it's unlikely that they will be trouble for me.
As George Hook loves to say we need to take responsibility ourselves and protect ourselves0 -
Old diesel wrote: »Is the carpet actually dirty?????.
If you are going to charge 1500 a month then not cleaning the carpet properly prior the tenant moving in is taking the urine imo.
If it was me - and the carpet was GENUINELY dirty I'd be full of apologies and making it right straight away.
If you want 1500 a month - fair play to you - but a certain standard should be expected by a normal person moving in.
When you rent or lease a car you expect it to arrive to you in clean condition.
That is the whole point of viewing a place, you inspect it, and if your not happy about anything, you ask if it can be addressed before they move in. Then if they say yes, it can be done, agree to move in, if they say, well there’s plenty more fish in the area. Iv declined some requests and accepted others but if you move in and your not happy with something that would have clearly been visible on viewing the place, that’s on you then.
I disagree, renting is not sold as seen but rather a mutual effort to maintain the property.
Simple rule of thumb if the tenant didnt cause the issue, dont make them responsible for it. Regardless of who has rights etc, its the right thing to do.
No point giving out about LL rights when your actions are unreasonable.0 -
So that's one of my two questions answered eventually, you're a LL. A by the book, professional, consummate LL............yet still somehow has lost at the RTB. How is it that you lost, you do everything properly and according to you there is no bias, that the law and process is balanced? Can't you see that you losing contradicts your position?You believe that the RTB is stacked in favour of the tenant.
You belittle a poster with the above comment
You do not like RTB
What I don't understand is first you say RTB is stacked in favour of the tenant. Then you say you don't like RTB. Then you say that you have won every time with the RTB. Can you not see you are not making sense?
You've had a few bad tenants. Most of us learn from this & improve our screening process. The brothel thing can happen to anyone. They usually don't last long and in fairness these are usually well kept.
Since the early 90s I've gotten at least two months rent deposit. I've had bank statements and references from employers. We phone employers & double check. I've always been happy having a property empty longer & get the right tenant. I never show a property while the old tenants are still there. I like one party to leave & get the premises looking good before I show it. If I have to get cleaners in then it comes out of the last guy deposit. I have the same colour paint in all of the properties. I have a guy goes in between letting to paint. Even if it was done 12 months ago he'll spend an hour or so touching up scuff marks. It pays for itself as I rarely have to do a full paint job. It also leaves a freshly painted smell for when showing the property. Same guy checks everything. Tightens any loose screws, kitchen cabinets, lockers, drawers etc. The property is left in such a way that any damage has to be paid for. There is no wear & tear when everything is put right before every letting.
I said that the RTA is pro tenant and the RTB interpretation even more so. Winning a RTB adjudication as a LL does not automatically mean both aren't biased as you maintain, it can mean that the LL's case is on occasion so watertight they win the adjudication.
But this could be after waiting in excess of a further 6 months without rent as the house was being thrashed, for a hearing. Then waiting for a decision, then another wait to see will there be an appeal, then wait for an appeal to be heard, then possibly more appeals, then seek an enforcement in the circuit court,then engage the sherriff. Put the wrong date down and back to the start. A process sometimes measured in years rather than weeks all the time losing and costing large sums of money, perhaps even as much as the LL's own home.
It is absurd to propose having a adjudication go a LL's way means there is unbiased balance in the legislative process, and it's not my fault or responsibility that you can't see that.
And I do find an opinion such as the one of the poster I originally quoted pathetic. They found the fact that the RTB and legislation being one sided in favour of the tenant an "absolutely brilliant thing", I believe that it's a sad and pitiful affair that someone agrees that there is an imbalance, and sees no issue using this imbalance to its fullest and to their advantage.
The meaning of words in a post are important and your choice in "Most of us learn from this & improve our screening process. The brothel thing can happen to anyone. They usually don't last long and in fairness these are usually well kept. " I consider condescending.
In my one experience years ago of a vetted tenant disappearing and sex workers and pimps taking over, I found it neither short lasting nor well kept and threats to me and my daughters dissuaded me from bringing a paltry RTB case that would never achieve any good against a person that could not be found. But as you seem more well versed on the subject, enough to make such a comment anyway, I'll concede to you on that one.:rolleyes:
Let me be clear, I have brought two cases to the RTB for adjudication which both went in my favour. Both after the tenants were gone, never to terminate a tenancy, only for arrears and damages. Both were pointless, an exercise not to be repeated. RtA2004 was meant to be an instrument to help resolve issues between parties simply and fairly, that did not happen. Subsequent amendments finished that idea off. I consider myself lucky not to have suffered at the hands of a non paying destructive tenant that knew how to play the system, or one whom had received advice from others on how to play it.
I note that you have still not answered the other of my two questions, asked twice as concisely as I could to hopefully induce as answer. The cases you won.......how much? I'm taking your avoidance to answer after being asked twice, as the answer.
Your posts are somewhat deflective, as you failed twice to answer how much you received as the end result of a positive RTB decision. Deflective posts tainted by pontification. I'm not saying that your letting preparation and vetting isn't justified or required, and that your insistence that everyone of your properties is handed over in a clean maintained state is wrong. I have always done things similarly, but I don't bang on about it repeatedly as you have throughout this thread.
I'm at about 5/10 years ahead of you in the rental business, and have never been taken to the RTB (or IIRC district court back then) by a tenant. I'm getting out of the business now mainly because of the amendments over the last few years to the tenancy act but also because what is coming down the line.
Jan O'Sullivan's proposal to stop your preferred practise of taking more than one months security deposit may soon reverse your assertion that the legislation/ rtb is not pro tenant. Maybe you'll change your mind when you see your asset devalued because of limited yield due yours being a rent controlled property making it unattractive for a potential investor that could instead choose a new build/ previously unrented property. If you're in an RPZ this has already happened, if not in a RPZ you soon will be they're trying to make the whole country an RPZ. What if they decide that you will not be able to sell your asset to anyone but another LL with the tenant in situ, thus devaluing your hard earned asset by excluding owner occupiers from the sales process?
Nothing you have posted, disproves my original point, mainly the bias in the amendments to RTA2004, RTB mediation/ adjudication, and the legislative process. You're entitled to your opinion and I feel anything more I say will not change that or will escalate this to somewhere I don't need to go, but I reckon time itself will change your opinion for you.0 -
Captain Flaps wrote:I totally understand, and I believe payslip is a fair way to ascertain affordability. I just don't see any reason to give a landlord my bank statement. What info can you glean from that that you can't from my payslip?
If you are 5k overdrawn or only paying the credit card interest each month then you are a bad risk.
If you offer nice clean accommodation with nice things (not 20 year old hand-me-downs from the big house) plenty of people who say they won't give statements change their minds for the chance to live in a nicer place0 -
handlemaster wrote:Again making it up as you go along. Never said it was acceptable to rent a dirty place. The OP hasnt put up photos of this supposed dirty carpet but has had time to start a posting in askaboutmoney for the same issue.
In all of your posts you have insisted that property was viewed & lease signed so no clean carpetsFol20 wrote:Yes your right, more than likely we would net a max of 50pc of that rent arrears but it’s still our money and technically it’s stealing as they have received a service and not paid for it. More than likely the value wouldn’t be 3k and can be up to a years rent so you could be talking 20knpotentially in Dublin. The value doesn’t matter here though. Even if it’s just 100e we’re due. It’s still a service we provided so again, just going back to the business aspect I mentioned earlier, you don’t seem to care too much that your not taking in all the profit your due.
I'm part of a plumbing group on Facebook. Some members have installed entire heating system and can't get paid. Shops build insurance "slippage" (shoplifting) into their prices. People default on loans. Only a few months ago I installed a shower in Balbriggan. Landlord was nice as pie till it came to paying. She thought she'd be clever and not answer the phone to me or reply to texts and emails. After a few weeks of getting nowhere I had to go back and take my property back. Every business in the world has issues but landlords are the only ones that seem to moan about them constantly. You need to pick yourself up and move onCaptain Flaps wrote:Jesus. More power to you if it's allowed you to get the right tenants but if I was asked for bank statements you can jog right on.
You are entitled to ask for anything you want. If they don't want to give bank & card statements then I would just move on. There's 10 more in the queue willing to prove that they are good tenants. Bank & card statements can have the account number blanked out. All I need is name and address. Anyone paying the minimum on a credit card each month is living on expensive credit and is likely not to be a good tenant. I stay clear of these altogether
Also I get phone numbers of last few landlords. If the tenant was trouble free for the last three years it's unlikely that they will be trouble for me.
Its one side saying carpet is dirty. Who signed a contract to say all was fine. Again never said dirt should be included. Thats your assumption.0 -
If you are 5k overdrawn or only paying the credit card interest each month then you are a bad risk.
If you offer nice clean accommodation with nice things (not 20 year old hand-me-downs from the big house) plenty of people who say they won't give statements change their minds for the chance to live in a nicer place
You're not a lending institution; if I'm 5k overdrawn but I'm making my payments each month and have a solid wage and a pile of landlord references, I think it's very unfair/intrusive to ask for statements. Just my 2 cents on that but I've never been asked and a straw poll in the office here suggests the others I work with would consider this abnormal.0 -
10pennymixup wrote:So that's one of my two questions answered eventually, you're a LL. A by the book, professional, consummate LL............yet still somehow has lost at the RTB. How is it that you lost, you do everything properly and according to you there is no bias, that the law and process is balanced? Can't you see that you losing contradicts your position?
You win & lose at everything throughout life. Sometimes a jud can fall in favour of someone else not a big deal. As it turns out I lost at the RTB as a witness for another landlord but that's neither here nor there. People can lie at these things.
I have been to the small claims court before. Back in the boom I had a property maintenance company. What ever tradesmen you needed we had.
A lady in her 60's, a neighbour belive it or not wanted a bathroom refit but didn't want to retile. Not the easiest thing in the world but I told her if she got everything in the same measurements we could make it work. She got a low profile shower tray a couple inches shorter than the original. I explained that we couldn't just pop her old tiles back on. She said that she would be happy with a different colour on the bottom row. She wanted mosaic but her floor was off about an inch along the length of the tray. Not wanting to retile the floor there was no way to level the floor so I told her that it can't be mosaic. She'd lose a tile from one end of the tray to the other.
She took my advice and we patched up with a 6 inch tile.
A year later I'm summoned to the small claims court. Turns out she got mosaic after we left the job. I was being sued because the new tray was not level. Originally I went to great lengths to explain all of this to her when pricing the job. The only way to level the tray was to level up the floor and retile. She denied all of this. Lied through her teeth. Who is the judge going to believe? Little old pensioner or the contractors? I had to pay €500.
You just pick yourself up and move on. After 7000 posts I've never told that story here on boards.ie. I don't dwell on the bad things. They happen to everyone. I said earlier that I rarely comment on the rental property threads and the reason for that is they make sad reading with landlords recanting their horror stories every chance they get. Life isn't perfect. Bad things happen us all. Why not tell stories about the great tenants that you must have had over the years.
My opinion more than half of landlords are bad to some degree but less than 10 percent of tenants are bad.0 -
Captain Flaps wrote: »You're not a lending institution; if I'm 5k overdrawn but I'm making my payments each month and have a solid wage and a pile of landlord references, I think it's very unfair/intrusive to ask for statements. Just my 2 cents on that but I've never been asked and a straw poll in the office here suggests the others I work with would consider this abnormal.
You want to rent a property off me worth up to half a million off me? That's a lot of trust imo. You get a tradesman at your door within 24 hours? Sometimes the same day?Then you need to show statements. You even get clean carpets.
If you want to rent where the landlord tries to repair things & all the grief that comes with that. Old furniture etc. don't show your statements & move on. Choice is yours0 -
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You win & lose at everything throughout life. Sometimes a jud can fall in favour of someone else not a big deal. As it turns out I lost at the RTB as a witness for another landlord but that's neither here nor there...................................................................................................................half of landlords are bad to some degree but less than 10 percent of tenants are bad.
What if anything has this to do with your assertion that there is no bias in the legislation and system?
All you have done here is completely back track on how many cases and in which manner you lost at the RTB. That coupled with your turn off phrase and deflective narrative, makes me doubt the veracity of anything you say.
The rest of the post is a ramble that belongs in the plumbing or consumer issues forum, if they'd allow it.
I'm out, I've better things to do than read the likes of this. It reminds me of a Grandpa Simpson story.0 -
Captain Flaps wrote: »If you are 5k overdrawn or only paying the credit card interest each month then you are a bad risk.
If you offer nice clean accommodation with nice things (not 20 year old hand-me-downs from the big house) plenty of people who say they won't give statements change their minds for the chance to live in a nicer place
You're not a lending institution; if I'm 5k overdrawn but I'm making my payments each month and have a solid wage and a pile of landlord references, I think it's very unfair/intrusive to ask for statements. Just my 2 cents on that but I've never been asked and a straw poll in the office here suggests the others I work with would consider this abnormal.
The landlord has very little come back with a rental property if the tenant isnt honest. For example you give more information renting a car and that company has insurance / prepayment conditions that are enforcible. With other eu contries its normal to give bank statements, LL just need to confirm you can afford to pay. LL references from trouble tenants are the best as the LL wants them to move out. They really mean nothing0 -
10pennymixup wrote:What if anything has this to do with your assertion that there is no bias in the legislation and system?10pennymixup wrote:All you have done here is completely back track on how many cases and in which manner you lost at the RTB. That coupled with your turn off phrase and deflective narrative, makes me doubt the veracity of anything you say.
You are determined to start an argument and I don't want to partake. Your tone is aggressive.
Why don't you read my posts & you will see that what RTB case I lost.
The op question is about dirty carpets and we are getting miles away from that0 -
handlemaster wrote: »The landlord has very little come back with a rental property if the tenant isnt honest. For example you give more information renting a car and that company has insurance / prepayment conditions that are enforcible. With other eu contries its normal to give bank statements, LL just need to confirm you can afford to pay. LL references from trouble tenants are the best as the LL wants them to move out. They really mean nothing
I appreciate that, and I have no doubt that there are as many trouble tenants as dodgy landlords. FWIW I've never given a reference from a current landlord no more than I've given a reference from a current employer - I want my next move secured before I give intention to leave. If I've always paid my rent on time and I've a steady income coming in then that should suffice, I think seeking bank statements is an unnecessary power move from landlords who have the pick of the litter. I mean no disrespect but I see that as a bit of an abuse. I've dealt with private landlords and agencies and have always provided work and prior landlord references, bank statements and (in the case of the agency) PPS no. I've never been turned down an apartment I applied for.0 -
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You are determined to start an argument and I don't want to partake. Your tone is aggressive.
Why don't you read my posts & you will see that what RTB case I lost.
The op question is about dirty carpets and we are getting miles away from that
We once made a landlord remove a filthy carpet and put down laminate; even sourced it on special offer.. Was easier 12 years ago to do that than it is now.0 -
Captain Flaps wrote: »handlemaster wrote: »The landlord has very little come back with a rental property if the tenant isnt honest. For example you give more information renting a car and that company has insurance / prepayment conditions that are enforcible. With other eu contries its normal to give bank statements, LL just need to confirm you can afford to pay. LL references from trouble tenants are the best as the LL wants them to move out. They really mean nothing
I appreciate that, and I have no doubt that there are as many trouble tenants as dodgy landlords. FWIW I've never given a reference from a current landlord no more than I've given a reference from a current employer - I want my next move secured before I give intention to leave. If I've always paid my rent on time and I've a steady income coming in then that should suffice, I think seeking bank statements is an unnecessary power move from landlords who have the pick of the litter. I mean no disrespect but I see that as a bit of an abuse. I've dealt with private landlords and agencies and have always provided work and prior landlord references, bank statements and (in the case of the agency) PPS no. I've never been turned down an apartment I applied for.
Theres no proof you have done any of what you say.0 -
handlemaster wrote: »Theres no proof you have done any of what you say.
I have payslips for 3-6 months showing steady salary, this can be verified by calling my employer (ref provided).
I have printed landlord references which can be verified with a phonecall if need be. I can provide the previous addresses if needed.
If either of the above isn't sufficient due to the possibility of forgery I'm not sure what use a bank statement will be to you unless you want my login for online banking. Honestly, what 'proof' can I give you that you can actually feel confident with?0 -
Captain Flaps wrote: »I have payslips for 3-6 months showing steady salary, this can be verified by calling my employer (ref provided).
I have printed landlord references which can be verified with a phonecall if need be. I can provide the previous addresses if needed.
If either of the above isn't sufficient due to the possibility of forgery I'm not sure what use a bank statement will be to you unless you want my login for online banking. Honestly, what 'proof' can I give you that you can actually feel confident with?
I don't doubt that you are an honest person but here's the thing, you can be in a great job & on great money but at the same time you can be strung out on coke spending more than you earn. Three months bank & credit card statements tell me if you are living on real money or surviving day by day on an overdraft & credit cards.
There's nothing forcing you to give statements. It's your choice. There's nothing unusual about showing bank statements. I have to show them to an estate agent as a cash buyer before my bid is considered . I black out my account number & give the statements as requested. I see it as normal.0 -
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Captain Flaps wrote: »handlemaster wrote: »Theres no proof you have done any of what you say.
I have payslips for 3-6 months showing steady salary, this can be verified by calling my employer (ref provided).
I have printed landlord references which can be verified with a phonecall if need be. I can provide the previous addresses if needed.
If either of the above isn't sufficient due to the possibility of forgery I'm not sure what use a bank statement will be to you unless you want my login for online banking. Honestly, what 'proof' can I give you that you can actually feel confident with?
Bank slips baby. . Seriously do you want the place or not.0
This discussion has been closed.
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