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Lease

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  • 22-07-2018 7:14pm
    #1
    remembering
    Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭


    By right, Do 2 landlords have to sign a new lease for a tenant? Thanks


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    #2
    10pennymixup
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭10pennymixup


    remembering wrote: »
    By right, Do 2 landlords have to sign a new lease for a tenant? Thanks

    Not sure what you mean by two LL's, typo?

    No a LL does not have to sign a successive lease if they don't want to. Same goes for a tenant.

    All tenancies are governed by law, and a lease is not always needed. A lease is a written document/ contract stating what is expected of the parties involved, it cannot detract from what is prescribed in law. Also most leases also have a continuation clause, where the conditions of the lease continue after the initial term has ceased.


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    #3
    remembering
    Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭remembering


    10pennymixup wrote: »
    Not sure what you mean by two LL's, typo?

    No a LL does not have to sign a successive lease if they don't want to. Same goes for a tenant.

    All tenancies are governed by law, and a lease is not always needed. A lease is a written document/ contract stating what is expected of the parties involved, it cannot detract from what is prescribed in law. Also most leases also have a continuation clause, where the conditions of the lease continue after the initial term has ceased.

    Sorry I probably didn't make myself clear. If a tenant wants to renew a lease and they sign it and 1 landlord does. Does the other landlord of the property also have to sign it to agree to them renewing for another year? Thanks


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    #4
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,069 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    remembering wrote:
    Sorry I probably didn't make myself clear. If a tenant wants to renew a lease and they sign it and 1 landlord does. Does the other landlord of the property also have to sign it to agree to them renewing for another year? Thanks


    Are you subletting?

    You usually only have one landlord


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    #5
    remembering
    Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭remembering


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Are you subletting?

    You usually only have one landlord

    No . I co own an apartment with someone else


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    #6
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,069 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    remembering wrote:
    No . I co own an apartment with someone else

    Ah you own the apartment and you are the landlord. Makes sense now

    You've asked a tricky question. It all depends who the someone else is wife, husband, business partner or is it a company that you have.

    Husband /wife only one needs to sign

    Business partner will depend on what agreement you have between you.

    If you both signed first time why not both sign again

    Is the other owner away? Do they know that you will be signing the lease?


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    #7
    remembering
    Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭remembering


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Ah you own the apartment and you are the landlord. Makes sense now

    You've asked a tricky question. It all depends who the someone else is wife, husband, business partner or is it a company that you have.

    Husband /wife only one needs to sign

    Business partner will depend on what agreement you have between you.

    If you both signed first time why not both sign again

    Is the other owner away? Do they know that you will be signing the lease?

    Bus partner. We never had an agreement. So say if I didn't want tenants to move in and he signed lease with them . Can I disagree on this now because I also didn't sign??


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    #8
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,069 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    remembering wrote:
    Bus partner. We never had an agreement. So say if I didn't want tenants to move in and he signed lease with them . Can I disagree on this now because I also didn't sign??


    I'd suggest asking a solicitor. There are so many variables that I couldn't answer with any certainty. Solicitor will need to be know what legal arrangements you have with the other business partner.

    My own gut feeling is that the tenant will have a valid lease & you & your business partner can slug it out in court all you want but the tenant will have a valid lease. That's my gut feeling and I don't know this as fact. I'm asking myself what would stop any landlord using this as an excuse to get rid of the a tenant? I see the tenants lease being valid


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    #9
    remembering
    Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭remembering


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    I'd suggest asking a solicitor. There are so many variables that I couldn't answer with any certainty. Solicitor will need to be know what legal arrangements you have with the other business partner.

    My own gut feeling is that the tenant will have a valid lease & you & your business partner can slug it out in court all you want but the tenant will have a valid lease. That's my gut feeling and I don't know this as fact. I'm asking myself what would stop any landlord using this as an excuse to get rid of the a tenant? I see the tenants lease being valid

    Thanks a mil. I will do this.


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    #10
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    remembering wrote: »
    Bus partner. We never had an agreement. So say if I didn't want tenants to move in and he signed lease with them . Can I disagree on this now because I also didn't sign??

    You are bound by the acts of your business partner. You could even have to pay bills run up by a business partner in connection with the business. As far as the tenant is concerned the lease is valid. You and your business partner should communicate better.


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    #11
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    remembering wrote: »
    Bus partner. We never had an agreement. So say if I didn't want tenants to move in and he signed lease with them . Can I disagree on this now because I also didn't sign??

    The one area there might be some scope for having the lease annulled is if the property was once a family home.


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    #12
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,324 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Ah you own the apartment and you are the landlord. Makes sense now

    You've asked a tricky question. It all depends who the someone else is wife, husband, business partner or is it a company that you have.

    Husband /wife only one needs to sign

    Business partner will depend on what agreement you have between you.

    If you both signed first time why not both sign again

    Is the other owner away? Do they know that you will be signing the lease?

    A husband or wife has no more capacity to bind the other than has any business partner.


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    #13
    Stanford
    Registered Users Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Stanford


    Marcusm wrote: »
    A husband or wife has no more capacity to bind the other than has any business partner.

    Is ownership of the property in both names?


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    #14
    Baby01032012
    Registered Users Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭Baby01032012


    As said before you need to talk to solicitor.

    However factors like who receives the rental income, who is registered as the landlord with the RTB will determine who can sign lease as landlord.


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    #15
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Marcusm wrote: »
    A husband or wife has no more capacity to bind the other than has any business partner.

    A business partner binds the other partners. A husband and wife letting a property for profit will be deemed to be business partners. A complication arises if the property was once a family home. In that case, there may be a disposition of an interest without the consent of the non-owning spouse. That would make the lease null at the option of the other spouse.


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    #16
    Stanford
    Registered Users Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Stanford


    Baby01032012 wrote: »
    As said before you need to talk to solicitor.

    However factors like who receives the rental income, who is registered as the landlord with the RTB will determine who can sign lease as landlord.

    I agree, the situation is complicated so professional legal advice is a must especially where property rights are concerned


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    #17
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Baby01032012 wrote: »
    As said before you need to talk to solicitor.

    However factors like who receives the rental income, who is registered as the landlord with the RTB will determine who can sign lease as landlord.

    IF there is a business partnership then both partners are entitled to the rent. The RTA defines the landlord as the person entitled to the rent, not the person registered as the landlord.


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    #18
    Baby01032012
    Registered Users Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭Baby01032012


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    IF there is a business partnership then both partners are entitled to the rent. The RTA defines the landlord as the person entitled to the rent, not the person registered as the landlord.

    The RTB will only deal with whoever is on their system as landlord. However it is likely both business partners are. As regards entitlement to rent I was thinking more from a Revenue perspective who declares the rent and pays tax on it if it is declared. There may not be a formal business partnership, this may just be a single property owned by 2 individuals so ownership per deeds, Pps numbers given to revenue for stamp duty all factor in who has rights.

    This is all speculation and we don’t know circumstances and only solicitor can advise.


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    #19
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,069 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Marcusm wrote:
    A husband or wife has no more capacity to bind the other than has any business partner.


    I hadn't intended to imply this. I was showing op that different business setups might get a different answer. For example husband & wife set up more times than not has one looking after the property. They both own it but usually only one signs the lease & one registered with RTB. In most cases one actually has nothing to do with the rental business. If a husband & wife split up in business then usually their marriage goes at the same time. By the time they get a legal separation /devorce the tenant would be long gone & it will be a mute point.

    It turns out that op has a business partner. Possibly both are registered with RTB & possibly both sign the lease. They might even have a formal legal partnership contract. If they split up then having a tenant with a lease becomes a problem much quicker. The partnership can be desolved & house expected to be on the market within months not years if there is no tenant.

    Legally having your spouse as business partner might be the same as having a regular business partner but break up will take years longer for the married couple to complete than a regular partner. Very few married couples have a business contract between them and everything might fall under marital assets.


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    #20
    remembering
    Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭remembering


    Stanford wrote: »
    Is ownership of the property in both names?

    Yes ... Thanks


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