Often becomes easy when the easy is often..

Swashbuckler

You're there or thereabouts C. This 5k stuff ain't easy. The speed is there you're just lacking a bit of endurance. You're also working off relatively low volume. That's not to say you need volume to run sub 20 but if you were looking for something to work with race strategy is one thing but essentially you just need to build up a bit of endurance (in my opinion).

Lazare

scotindublin wrote: »

I know you are disappointed C but I think on reflection you can look back at last night and take some good constructive feedback for yourself from it.

You have recognised that you went out to fast (lesson 1 learned) and maybe a better strategy would have been to hit 4 mins even for the first 4km and try and kick from there (lesson 2). Running 5ks are not easy and it is a constant learning process; we are all different in how we approach them. I was told by one of the lads in the club to know my 3k split hit that and hang on from there; you will find what works for you

Take this one on the chin and move on; the cumulative affect of the training will click soon enough and you will look back and wonder what all the fuss about breaking 20 again was about.

C

Thanks C, obv out hard and hang on isn't the correct strat for me. I'll follow your advice and track the pacer at DOIPBs then try kick. P is right though, endurance needs work.

Swashbuckler wrote: »

You're there or thereabouts C. This 5k stuff ain't easy. The speed is there you're just lacking a bit of endurance. You're also working off relatively low volume. That's not to say you need volume to run sub 20 but if you were looking for something to work with race strategy is one thing but essentially you just need to build up a bit of endurance (in my opinion).

Cheers P, that's decent critique. Something I've not considered, and looking back over the last three or four weeks I probably haven't done enough. Not an awful lot I can do between now and July 14th. Will need to look at something in September or later then and just work hard on endurance.

Swashbuckler

Theres many ways to do it and don't take the advice as me saying you've been doing anything wrong. Running sub 20 is no small thing. You've done great. I feel like a hypocrite saying this given my own recent mentality but try not to focus too hard on "the pb". If you focus on getting stronger then the PB's will just come. Enjoy July 14th. Don't let it become all about the sub 20. Soon you'll be doing sub 20 on your off days.

scotindublin

Rathfarnam 5k in September is a good one to aim for; heard good things about it.

Maybe look at 5k specific sessions you can do; we were only talking about that at training this morning and were discussing how much scope for improvement would be there if we targeted a specific distance to train for.

Murph_D

Tough one, C - that second sub-20 can be slightly elusive. Have been where you were last night many times before finally doing the 'repeat' 18 months later! I'm sure it won't take you that long. Sub-19 first mile? Were you ahead of the pacer by then or did he burn everybody off? :eek:

Lazare

scotindublin wrote: »

Rathfarnam 5k in September is a good one to aim for; heard good things about it.

Maybe look at 5k specific sessions you can do; we were only talking about that at training this morning and were discussing how much scope for improvement would be there if we targeted a specific distance to train for.

I'll have a look at that race, cheers C.
I've been doing a lot of 5k specific stuff, Vo2max session pretty much weekly, might look at the higher mileage plan.

Murph_D wrote: »

Tough one, C - that second sub-20 can be slightly elusive. Have been where you were last night many times before finally doing the 'repeat' 18 months later! I'm sure it won't take you that long. Sub-19 first mile? Were you ahead of the pacer by then or did he burn everybody off? :eek:

Cheers for that D, good to know I'm not alone

It was a weird one with the pacer, he was definitely running the first km at between 3:45 and 3:50, another runner commented on it to me too. I remember looking down at 3:50 and not gaining any ground on him.

I never caught him, he must have corrected himself though as he was where he should have been relative to me in the last km. He crossed the line bang on 20:00.

Lazare

Haven't updated in a while. Planned to fill in the blanks with the past few weeks training but have ran out of time with a busy day.

Day of Irish Pbs tomorrow. I'm running in the 20 min race.

After taking some great advice on board, I'm in a good frame of mind about it. I'm excited about it more than anything, first shot at a track race. Not feeling the pressure to sub 20 which can only be a good thing.

Been thinking a lot about what Swash said about the lack of endurance. Although I'm happy with what I've achieved so far off the volume I put in, the mileage needs increasing. I think a good goal may be to end the year averaging 50 mpw. Will happily take guidance and critique in that regard.

For now though I'm gonna hit the sack, get a decent sleep and have a fair crack at this tomorrow. Can't wait.

Swashbuckler

Lazare wrote:

Been thinking a lot about what Swash said about the lack of endurance. Although I'm happy with what I've achieved so far off the volume I put in, the mileage needs increasing. I think a good goal may be to end the year averaging 50 mpw. Will happily take guidance and critique in that regard.

Hope today went well.

As with any sh*te doctor it's always good to get a second opinion. Lol

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Hope today went well.

As with any sh*te doctor it's always good to get a second opinion. Lol

My opinion...yes to getting the base miles increased. I think that getting to 50 per week is a reasonable target, probably needing 6 days of running.

Lazare

skyblue46 wrote: »

My opinion...yes to getting the base miles increased. I think that getting to 50 per week is a reasonable target, probably needing 6 days of running.

And at least one double day.

skyblue46

Lazare wrote: »

And at least one double day.

Jaysus! Enthusiasm much :pac:

Lazare

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Hope today went well.

As with any sh*te doctor it's always good to get a second opinion. Lol

Today went great P.

Didn't pb, although I ran my fastest mile and km. Came in 20:26

Pacer was quick for the first mile or so, may have hung with him too long, first k was 3:50 and I was 30m or so behind him.

Nobody came in under 20 which was interesting.

Your advice upthread has put me in a different mind frame. I know what I need to do. Also, C's advice to chill out hit home too.

I'm at my level right now. It's the best I can achieve with such volume. I'm zen with that.

I know what I need to do.

OOnegative

Train to current level of fitness and see improvements, rinse repeat and stay injury free.

Your on the right road & have the correct ideas, keep going and you’ll be fine. Well done today.

Lazare

OOnegative wrote: »

Train to current level of fitness and see improvements, rinse repeat and stay injury free.

Your on the right road & have the correct ideas, keep going and you’ll be fine. Well done today.

Cheers man

skyblue46

What's the plan C? A higher mileage FRR plan?

Lazare

skyblue46 wrote: »

What's the plan C? A higher mileage FRR plan?

I'm not sure really. There's a base plan in there that gets you to 45 miles. Might jump into that, not target anything in the short term but add the odd all out parkrun or race in.

P was talking about strength building workouts from the grads that I'm interested in learning more about.

Swashbuckler

Bit of a hot first km! Well done today.

Oonegative has good advice there too. I wouldn't want you coming away from my earlier comment thinking higher volume will solve everything. There's so many ways to work it and each individual is different. What I would say is try and figure out early in the 'season' or year what your main goal is and build towards that. A lot of us are guilty (myself included) of wanting to run pbs across all distances. It's very hard to be in pb shape across the whole range of distances at various points throughout the year. If you want to do really well at the 5k spend a big chunk of time base building and then getting more specific towards the 5k rather than spend 12 weeks doing a 5k plan then another 12 doing a HM plan then 16 weeks on a Marathon plan and hoping to pb them all (that's not to say you won't but it's just a bit more difficult) . But that's just my opinion. Everyone is different.

scotindublin

Glad to hear you still enjoyed the day. Running on the track is a different beast altogether; always good to try something different.

Stick with it and tweak the training a little and there are big gains there for you.

At our level enjoying it is still the most important thing which you obviously are.

Lazare

I think if I didn't crack 20 at BH things would be different now, bordering on desperate. As it is, I'm happy with the year so far. I'm happy to set out base building.

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Bit of a hot first km! Well done today.

Oonegative has good advice there too. I wouldn't want you coming away from my earlier comment thinking higher volume will solve everything. There's so many ways to work it and each individual is different. What I would say is try and figure out early in the 'season' or year what your main goal is and build towards that. A lot of us are guilty (myself included) of wanting to run pbs across all distances. It's very hard to be in pb shape across the whole range of distances at various points throughout the year. If you want to do really well at the 5k spend a big chunk of time base building and then getting more specific towards the 5k rather than spend 12 weeks doing a 5k plan then another 12 doing a HM plan then 16 weeks on a Marathon plan and hoping to pb them all (that's not to say you won't but it's just a bit more difficult) . But that's just my opinion. Everyone is different.

Ahem! 2018 was my time to be different!

Lazare

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Bit of a hot first km! Well done today.

Oonegative has good advice there too. I wouldn't want you coming away from my earlier comment thinking higher volume will solve everything. There's so many ways to work it and each individual is different. What I would say is try and figure out early in the 'season' or year what your main goal is and build towards that. A lot of us are guilty (myself included) of wanting to run pbs across all distances. It's very hard to be in pb shape across the whole range of distances at various points throughout the year. If you want to do really well at the 5k spend a big chunk of time base building and then getting more specific towards the 5k rather than spend 12 weeks doing a 5k plan then another 12 doing a HM plan then 16 weeks on a Marathon plan and hoping to pb them all (that's not to say you won't but it's just a bit more difficult) . But that's just my opinion. Everyone is different.

Oh yeah, totally agree. Have been 5k focussed since Jan.

Base built until about late March then began focussed sessions. It got me my goal. Now to push on.

Swashbuckler

Lazare wrote:

Base built until about late March then began focussed sessions. It got me my goal. Now to push on.

I figured as I was writing that I should really go back through your log and see if this is what you have been doing anyway haha. In which case it's better to listen to you're old school followers.

scotindublin

Seems like an interesting pacing strategy in your race if nobody broke 20.

skyblue46

Lazare wrote: »

Oh yeah, totally agree. Have been 5k focussed since Jan.

Base built until about late March then began focussed sessions. It got me my goal. Now to push on.

Is goal still 5k?

skyblue46

scotindublin wrote: »

Seems like an interesting pacing strategy in your race if nobody broke 20.

I suppose it highlights a few things...1) it was a very warm day, 2) lots of people use the event to chase optimistic goals and 3) don't trust Strava....track splits had C doing 1k in 3:58 while his Strava shows 3:50 I think

Lazare

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I figured as I was writing that I should really go back through your log and see if this is what you have been doing anyway...

Haha, sure who has the time or the want to do that? :pac:

You've given me outstanding advice in here P, more please

You don't need to know the ins and outs of what someone's at to offer a nugget here and there, wouldn't expect anyone to.

Lazare

skyblue46 wrote: »

I suppose it highlights a few things...1) it was a very warm day, 2) lots of people use the event to chase optimistic goals and 3) don't trust Strava....track splits had C doing 1k in 3:58 while his Strava shows 3:50 I think

Wow, that's interesting.

scotindublin

In my very limited exposure to track running; the watch is pretty useless.

You need know your splits and use the official clock for pacing.

I also meant interesting pacing by the pacer not C.

skyblue46 wrote: »

I suppose it highlights a few things...1) it was a very warm day, 2) lots of people use the event to chase optimistic goals and 3) don't trust Strava....track splits had C doing 1k in 3:58 while his Strava shows 3:50 I think

Lazare

skyblue46 wrote: »

Is goal still 5k?

I think so. Certainly until Jingle Bells.

Lazare

scotindublin wrote: »

In my very limited exposure to track running; the watch is pretty useless.

You need know your splits and use the official clock for pacing.

That's obv why there's a clock at the start line then. Wish I'd known.