Often becomes easy when the easy is often..

Lazare

Gutted (literally) to miss Brighton and Hove parkrun this morning.

Went out for dinner and a few drinks last night. Had 3x oysters as starter. Didn't go bananas on the beer, went to bed relatively early looking forward to the morn.

Woke at about 3am doubled up in pain, stomach cramps. Spent the next 4 hours camped on our host's bathroom floor trying to sleep in between bouts of my body violently evacuating everything from it from both ends. Ugh.

Food poisoned obv. Body did a good job of clearing it as it settled down at about 7am. Am lucky, can go on for days I believe.

Am up about an hour now horsing the fluids and diorolyte into me. Going to attempt a light run and see how it feels.

Sick. Literally.

Kellygirl

Oh no C. That’s awful. Why are you even doing the light run? Your body must be exhausted! Mind yourself.

Lazare

Kellygirl wrote: »

Oh no C. That’s awful. Why are you even doing the light run? Your body must be exhausted! Mind yourself.

Thanks K, I'm going to be careful with it and give up if the effort feels too much.

Swashbuckler

Lazare wrote:

Am up about an hour now horsing the fluids and diorolyte into me. Going to attempt a light run and see how it feels.

Nothing to be gained running man. Rest up!

Baby75

holy crap nothing worse you poor thing I am glad your feeling better but do take it handy if anything feels to much call it a day and just relax

Lazare

I think you're both right actually. Was hoping a shower was going to park me up but I still feel pretty lousy. Legs are a bit too achy.

Feck it anyway.

Thanks guys.

Swashbuckler

You won't lose any fitness don't worry. Infact you stand to do more harm than good by running.

OOnegative

Leave the run C, as K and P said absolutely nothing to be gained from it. Recover & try enjoy rest of your trip. Hope you get over it quickly.

Lazare

OOnegative wrote: »

Leave the run C, as K and P said absolutely nothing to be gained from it. Recover & try enjoy rest of your trip. Hope you get over it quickly.

Thanks B, don't know what I was thinking. Left the flat earlier to walk down to the sea and I could hardly walk.

Such a pity, cracking place to run.

Lazare

Haven't updated in a while.

Having a bit of a rough time of it lately.

A lot of stop start. Picked up a bad dose towards the end of my work holidays, felt mostly in the head so I kept running, ran parkrun, it was my 100th so I wanted to have a crack at a pb. Felt the effort tough from the get go, came in just over 21 mins and I was goosed.

Planned between 9 and 11 miles for the following day but gave up after 3, found it tough to breath.

Had to take a week off.

Went for a buggy run on Sunday and felt great, chest is not fully cleared but good enough to run I felt.

Decided to get stuck back in, put in a high mileage week.

Ran Monday night with the buggy again, then Tue morning solo. Started to feel the dreaded tendon pain, but very very mild.

Got up too late on Wed morn to do much more than 3 miles. Decided then that today was gonna be my first double day. Still some mild tendon 'pain'.

Went for 4 miles with the buggy Wed evening, grand.

Tendon has been stinging ever since. Gutted.

Gonna have to sit out again for a few days until it eases off.

Can't get my head around it, everything was easy effort.

Don't think the double had much of an impact, 12 hours between running, have done that loads of times.

I really think it was the week break. I'm starting to think breaking consistency is bad for the body. Then again, I've had this same issue at this time of year for the past two years, although both of those years I was knee deep in marathon training, so I dunno. Meh.


Anyway, it'll come good. Pain in the ass for now but I'll be grand.

For more positive vibes I'm thinking of targeting Jingle Bells and following a higher mileage 12 week plan for it. Aiming for a knock on the door of 19:00.

Kellygirl

Sorry to read the tendon is back at you again. Very frustrating.

Lazare

Kellygirl wrote: »

Sorry to read the tendon is back at you again. Very frustrating.

Thanks K, yeah, very frustrating.

Sheep1978

Hopefully just a minor issue C and some short rest will clear it up

Lazare

Sheep1978 wrote: »

Hopefully just a minor issue C and some short rest will clear it up

Thanks D, same thing last year took 2 weeks to fully clear.

I suppose it's ok this time around with no targets on the horizon but I'm a little gutted about the fitness loss.

Baby75

Lazare wrote: »

Thanks D, same thing last year took 2 weeks to fully clear.

I suppose it's ok this time around with no targets on the horizon but I'm a little gutted about the fitness loss.

Hang in there C, it will recover remember what worked before ice, laces, KT tape and physio if you need it. but also start your band work again and keep it up once or twice a week as maintenance maybe

Lazare

Baby75 wrote: »

Hang in there C, it will recover remember what worked before ice, laces, KT tape and physio if you need it. but also start your band work again and keep it up once or twice a week as maintenance maybe

Cheers N, have it strapped up at the moment. Plan to do some S&C stuff this week. One good thing is knowing what to do having gone through the same thing before.

Lazare

Big improvement over the last couple of days. Toe raises aren't causing pain anymore.

Thinking of testing things with a v easy four miles on Wed.

If it's pain free and remains so through Wed I think I'm good to go.

Supposed to be pacing 22:30 at Corkagh this Sat, would welcome advice on what to do, assuming I'm back in business.

Should I pull out of it regardless?

Swashbuckler

Lazare wrote:

Should I pull out of it regardless?

Some people are more aggressive than others so you will probably get different opinions.

Personally I know what my approach would be. I'd be going back to basics and starting again. I'd certainly be dropping any thoughts of pacing anything. If I was to run it would be all easy running and building very slowly. My approach since the injury has been fairly conservative. Three weeks off. First week of the following once pain free- 25min/25min/30min/40min/40min/60min carefully monitoring after each run. Second week was upped to slightly longer runs. Third week longer again. Have to be slow and patient with these things in my opinion. But each to their own. Not all injuries and approaches are the same.

skyblue46

"Swashbuckler wrote: »

Not all injuries and approaches are the same.

This being the most important thing. You have self diagnosed which (with all due respect) means that planning a recovery plan is even more difficult than normal. Suck it and see. How close to what might be your best possible time at the moment would the target time be?

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote: »

This being the most important thing. You have self diagnosed which (with all due respect) means that planning a recovery plan is even more difficult than normal. Suck it and see. How close to what might be your best possible time at the moment would the target time be?

I don't disagree with what you're saying but judging from C's posts over the last few weeks there seems to be an overeagerness to rush back and get back to "normal". The reality is after an injury the worst thing you can do is rush it or force it. Going anywhere near anything faster than steady would be a risk not worth taking in my opinion.

(ironic that one of the reasons I've stepped back from social media is I don't want over analysis of what I'm doing yet here I am inflicting same on C!)

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I don't disagree with what you're saying but judging from C's posts over the last few weeks there seems to be an overeagerness to rush back and get back to "normal". The reality is after an injury the worst thing you can do is rush it or force it. Going anywhere near anything faster than steady would be a risk not worth taking in my opinion.

(ironic that one of the reasons I've stepped back from social media is I don't want over analysis of what I'm doing yet here I am inflicting same on C!)

I don't want to make this about C either. I've seen you, me, Mellow Yellow and others have injuries which put you off the road for weeks/ months but I have also seen 'injuries' where normal service resumes after a couple of days. C can't really be sure which category his falls into.

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

I don't want to make this about C either. I've seen you, me, Mellow Yellow and others have injuries which put you off the road for weeks/ months but I have also seen 'injuries' where normal service resumes after a couple of days. C can't really be sure which category his falls into.

Definitely agree. Hence my always conservative approach rather than forcing a pacing gig.

When I was training under Luke and got injured it was a case of wait until pain free. Then easy 40mins each day for a week. All good? Then kick on again. Rather than wait until pain free and taking on a risky fast paced effort.

Low risk is always the best approach in these situations in my opinion. Very little to be gained and a lot to be lost by pacing.

Lazare

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I don't disagree with what you're saying but judging from C's posts over the last few weeks there seems to be an overeagerness to rush back and get back to "normal". The reality is after an injury the worst thing you can do is rush it or force it. Going anywhere near anything faster than steady would be a risk not worth taking in my opinion.

(ironic that one of the reasons I've stepped back from social media is I don't want over analysis of what I'm doing yet here I am inflicting same on C!)

Ha! Analysis and critique warmly welcomed

You're right, overeagerness is definitely an issue I wrestle with. Keep trying to remind myself that it's no big deal this time around with no DCM.

What you're saying makes tons of sense.

Am interested to read your advice for coming back, consecutive days of short and easy, six days a week. Am really starting to think running more often is the key to staying healthy, as in, being able to run.

I'll cancel pacing and just concentrate on getting the fitness back.

Lazare

skyblue46 wrote: »

I don't want to make this about C either. I've seen you, me, Mellow Yellow and others have injuries which put you off the road for weeks/ months but I have also seen 'injuries' where normal service resumes after a couple of days. C can't really be sure which category his falls into.

It seems identical to last year, first few days swelling around the front of the ankle, a strange crackling/popping sensation when I pointed toes upward. Hurt when walking for a week or so. Pain seemed to travel upwards over the course of it. Starting at the bend of the foot, then the ankle, then the shin.

Went to a physio last year at the tail end of it and it was a waste of time, the worst of it was well over. Same now, no point in a physio now.

Last year when it healed it healed and I was able to resume.

Still think P is right though, madness to consider pacing really.

Sheep1978

Good luck with the first run this week C

Lazare

Sheep1978 wrote: »

Good luck with the first run this week C

Cheers Daz

Lazare

Didn't go great this morning. Not pain free unfortunately.

Had set out with Swash's advice on board, 25 mins super easy, if it's pain free continue on at that effort for a couple of weeks. Got uncomfortable after a mile then gradually felt worse. It's not the worst thing in the world, I have the benefit of experience. It just needs another few days rest.

What's a little bit more worrying is I have half an eye on DCM 2020, if I'm doing it I'm attacking it. If this happens again at this time of year it will punch me in the gut. I can't afford it.

On the other hand there's a lot I can do to help prevent it too, a bigger focus on S&C for instance.

Just want to run. Jesus I want to run.

Lazare

25 mins pain free, at last. Will spend a couple of weeks taking it easy then decide what's next.

Lazare

Spent the last two weeks nice and gentle, maxing out at about 40 mins, trying to run consecutive days as much as possible. It's crazy how quick the fitness goes, could really feel it. Feels somewhat back on track now.

I went to parkrun this morning with the intention of running it easy but got a rush of blood to the head 20 seconds before we were set off and decided to test myself.

Felt amazing. I just missed it so much and couldn't resist. Had a few beers last night and no warm up and wasn't far off what I would've expected in that situation a couple of months ago, so that's good.

There's not enough time to have a full dedicated crack at Jingle Bells but I'm gonna target it anyway. I'll base build over the next few weeks then start adding in some sessions with four or five weeks to go. See what I can do.

Most of all I just want to get fit again. Am getting there.

skyblue46

Plenty of time to get Jingle Bells ready C. No reason not to do a good race

Swashbuckler

You'd be surprised whats hidden under the surface in terms of fitness. I surprised myself a couple of times this week. One thing I noticed was introducing some short hill sprits (4 or 5 X 8s) has added an extra bit of pep in the step.

Lazare

skyblue46 wrote: »

Plenty of time to get Jingle Bells ready C. No reason not to do a good race

Yeah, you're right. There's plenty of time to pb.
I wanted to be at a solid 50mpw at this stage though, which would've put me in a strong position to target a low 19.

Having said that, I'm still really happy with my year and feel in a good place.

Lazare

Swashbuckler wrote: »

You'd be surprised whats hidden under the surface in terms of fitness. I surprised myself a couple of times this week. One thing I noticed was introducing some short hill sprits (4 or 5 X 8s) has added an extra bit of pep in the step.

Cool, yeah, I did feel good this morning. I might add a small bit of spicy stuff next week.

Lazare

Jaysis I'm well overdue an update.

Things going good. I feel I've gotten the fitness back.

The beginning of last week I jumped into week 7 of the same plan (FRR up to 40mpw 5k) I followed for Bob Heffernan. Target is Jingle Bells.

I said upthread that I didn't think there was enough time left for a good crack at it but after doing two of the Friday sessions and comparing them to April I feel pretty confident. I hadn't thought of this but have realised that doing the same plan again after six months gives you really good stats to work with. I'm seeing some good gains.

Chatting with Sean yesterday about a race strat for it and we both agreed a steady first 2 miles, 4:00km pace or a little sub then all out downhill last mile was the way to attack it. Really looking forward to it.


Signed up for DCM2020.

My plan this time last year after that disaster was to spend two years getting fit enough to have a go at it. Had such an enjoyable year though that I started to not care so much for the marathon, I really love 5k racing and training.

Had to buy in though. Was 50/50 about doing it the last few weeks, was happy with the lottery as sometimes when you can't choose between two desirable choices it's good to allow it to chance. But they went and messed that up for me.

So I bought in. Since though, and after a good chat with my wife about it I'm getting excited about it. Parked though for a while in terms of any sort of goal or strategy.

Happy where I'm at right now but do need to work on mileage, this was a good week relatively, 37 miles I think but I need to get to a stage where that's a below average week.

OOnegative

Your a much better runner than you give yourself credit for C!! DCM is the 2020 goal, target maybe Trim 10 or Bohermeen/Mullingar Half early in the year. Build the base more maybe target Bob as a 5k PB attempt then buckle down for DCM.

Lazare

OOnegative wrote: »

Your a much better runner than you give yourself credit for C!! DCM is the 2020 goal, target maybe Trim 10 or Bohermeen/Mullingar Half early in the year. Build the base more maybe target Bob as a 5k PB attempt then buckle down for DCM.

Thanks very much for that B.

You think then I need to transition to longer stuff around Jan? Maybe a few key 5k sessions in the run up to those early Summer target races, but keep the main stuff long?

OOnegative

Lazare wrote: »

Thanks very much for that B.

You think then I need to transition to longer stuff around Jan? Maybe a few key 5k sessions in the run up to those early Summer target races, but keep the main stuff long?

No, keep it half/10 mile specific till end of March. The endurance you built up till then will bring you PB’s over 5/10k over early summer months before you get into your DCM2020 plan.

Lazare

So target up until the end of March then spend a couple of months maintaining fitness before attacking DCM?

Sounds really good.

Swashbuckler

My own "plan" - HM specific til May. 5k from May to July. Then marathon training from July. Had a discussion about this on AMKs log. The idea being the HM specific will get me in good shape for marathon training but rather than spend the whole year at longer stuff, have a 5k block to sharpen up.

Lazare

Swashbuckler wrote: »

My own "plan" - HM specific til May. 5k from May to July. Then marathon training from July. Had a discussion about this on AMKs log. The idea being the HM specific will get me in good shape for marathon training but rather than spend the whole year at longer stuff, have a 5k block to sharpen up.

That's solid stuff P. I think I'll make the transition soon after jingle bells and stick with FRR. Plenty of time then to think about the marathon block.

Damo 2k9

Plan sounds spot on Conor. What I done wasnt good by any means basically jumping straight into Marathon Block with a really poor base (my own fault btw), I think going forward going into the Marathon Block with up to HM training already done will make it less taxing on the body, I found myself really tired at the start of my training as I was adapting to the increased load.

Hopefully catch up with you at JB.

Lazare

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

Plan sounds spot on Conor. What I done wasnt good by any means basically jumping straight into Marathon Block with a really poor base (my own fault btw), I think going forward going into the Marathon Block with up to HM training already done will make it less taxing on the body, I found myself really tired at the start of my training as I was adapting to the increased load.

Hopefully catch up with you at JB.

Yeah Damo, it makes tons of sense doesn't it.

Am quite excited about it now. I really loved the past year but on reflection it was because I introduced a bit of 'stuff'. The previous couple of years were pretty basic.

Had worried about missing 5k specific stuff but am realising that I just love training.

Damo 2k9

Lazare wrote: »

Yeah Damo, it makes tons of sense doesn't it.

Am quite excited about it now. I really loved the past year but on reflection it was because I introduced a bit of 'stuff'. The previous couple of years were pretty basic.

Had worried about missing 5k specific stuff but am realising that I just love training.

Yeh the bit of 'stuff' if we can call it that, really does add to the enjoyment instead of just saying u have X miles to do on a Saturday morning.

I remember one of my long runs was 20 miles but full of 'stuff'. 5 easy, 5 @ 7:30, 3 easy, 5 @ 7:30, 2 @ 8:15. That was probably my favourite run of the whole block, such a confidence booster too ticking that off.

Lazare

That's it. That feeling after a session is almost as good as a race.

Did last Friday's session early morn on the edge of the Naas Road in wind and rain and it was like a turbo boost for the whole day. Felt absolutely amazing, on fire in work. Love it.

Wubble Wubble

Great to see this log motoring again.
I'd an idea you'd sign up for DCM 2020. You're right not to worry about time targets or strategies for now - see how the next few months go.

In the meantime, I'll probably be chasing you down the hill at Jingle Bells. See you there!

Lazare

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Great to see this log motoring again.
I'd an idea you'd sign up for DCM 2020. You're right not to worry about time targets or strategies for now - see how the next few months go.

In the meantime, I'll probably be chasing you down the hill at Jingle Bells. See you there!

Cheers J, looking forward to seeing you there.

Lazare

Have made the decision to switch to HR training.

Flirted with it for a while but never had a good handle on my MHR so couldn't trust the zones, also couldn't trust the FR235 wrist monitor.

Was thinking about it for a while, but in the last week or so it seems the stars have aligned for it. Heard those ads on the radio for the new Beacon sports clinic's vo2max tests. Got in touch with them primarily about that and got chatting to a guy, a runner himself and HR training expert. Told me about a threshold test they do.

I'm going to do it. Half marathon training is all about threshold, basing it off pace is always gonna be guesswork. Could be 4:22km today, 4:30 tomorrow.

Need recommendations on a good comfy chest strap. Garmin one is about €70, but have seen some for around €25. Any tips?

ariana`

I'm looking forward to following your HR training C.

Any thoughts on whether you will follow a HR specific plan such as those of Matt Fitzgerald (80/20), or will you just use HR to guide your various efforts easy/tempo etc?

I have this strap though i paid a lot less for it on Chain Reaction.

Editted to add it's comfortable, i've never had any chaffing from it anyhow.

Lazare

ariana` wrote: »

I'm looking forward to following your HR training C.

Any thoughts on whether you will follow a HR specific plan such as those of Matt Fitzgerald (80/20), or will you just use HR to guide your various efforts easy/tempo etc?

I have this strap though i paid a lot less for it on Chain Reaction.

Editted to add it's comfortable, i've never had any chaffing from it anyhow.

Hey E, thanks a mill.

At the moment my plan was to follow the half plan from FRR, and use HR to guide the effort, but I'll do a bit of digging into that.

I've yet to study the method really, will do so over the next few weeks and make some decisions then with a bit more knowledge.

scotindublin

Exciting times ahead C and it seems like you are nailing down what your plans are; absolutely bags of potential where your running is concerned.

It will be interesting to hear how the testing goes; I know one of the lads from the club done proper testing (I think it was in UCD); HR based training is something I should probably read up on more; or maybe I should start by wearing a HR strap even for my own information!

Get the testing done commit to the plan and big gains will be coming your way in 2020.