Another car park?

Bowlardo

So all that hassle to build a bridge just to put a car park in the brewery.

holyhead

It does seem bonkers right enough. I would be in favour of mix use for the land of either educational, office and most importantly residential. We need more people living in the core of the city.

toe_knee

I can understand the bus parking as up by the castle is not sufficient during peak season. A car park does seem crazy. Is this not a temporary measure until they can figure out and fund something more permanent.

Disagree about putting residential in though. That would stunt any future growth of the city. Plenty of space in the ring road to continue to build.

Mankbag

toe_knee wrote: »

I can understand the bus parking as up by the castle is not sufficient during peak season. A car park does seem crazy. Is this not a temporary measure until they can figure out and fund something more permanent.

Disagree about putting residential in though. That would stunt any future growth of the city. Plenty of space in the ring road to continue to build.

"Temporary" measures have a strange habit of becoming permanent. Especially when they get to be a guaranteed source of income.

toe_knee

Mankbag wrote: »

"Temporary" measures have a strange habit of becoming permanent. Especially when they get to be a guaranteed source of income.

Very true.
5 years but hopefully what ever development plans are made might be able to make use of some of the car parking space. If we are trying to attract people into the city centre then more spaces would be needed in the long run.

Mankbag

toe_knee wrote: »

Very true.
5 years but hopefully what ever development plans are made might be able to make use of some of the car parking space. If we are trying to attract people into the city centre then more spaces would be needed in the long run.

No, we're trying to attract people rather than cars. Or that should be the case anyway.

toe_knee

Mankbag wrote: »

No, we're trying to attract people rather than cars. Or that should be the case anyway.

And how do you think they will get here?
In an ideal world everyone would use public transport but that is not the reality.

greenspurs

toe_knee wrote: »

And how do you think they will get here?
In an ideal world everyone would use public transport but that is not the reality.

exactly.

Look at Waterford, look at it dying .
Why? The main reason is the complete lack of parking in the city.
And join that to the price they charge for their parking, and the non sensical one way traffic systems they have in place, that is why their city centre is like a ghost town.

Keep it up Kilkenny.

Mankbag

toe_knee wrote: »

And how do you think they will get here?
In an ideal world everyone would use public transport but that is not the reality.

It's not about how they will get here, it's about where they will park.

FYI none of the plans for the brewery site envisaged a car park. In fact, all of the councillors were against the idea originally.

Cabaal

toe_knee wrote: »

Very true.
5 years but hopefully what ever development plans are made might be able to make use of some of the car parking space. If we are trying to attract people into the city centre then more spaces would be needed in the long run.

In most city's you can't park a bus in the city centre, instead the busses drop people off and then collect them later. Also bringing more cars into a city centre is not a sustainable model

Cabaal

greenspurs wrote: »

exactly.

Look at Waterford, look at it dying .
Why? The main reason is the complete lack of parking in the city.
And join that to the price they charge for their parking, and the non sensical one way traffic systems they have in place, that is why their city centre is like a ghost town.

Keep it up Kilkenny.

Waterford has tonnes of parking, but there are a number of issues.
- Vast majority of it is centralised on the quays
- People are lazy and won't walk from the quays to say Ballybricken or Apple market
- Parking is more expensive then Kilkenny, even in shopping centres....city square is a perfect example

You are commenting about one way systems in Waterford being an issue, but the reality is the issues existed long before the recent changes and if anything the one-way system has made things move better esp if you are trying to get out the Cork road. The changes on the quays are also positive as before the changes the place was a used as a racetrack by idiots and it also actually encouraged more trucks to go through Waterford instead of around it like they should be doing.

greenspurs

Cabaal wrote: »

The changes on the quays are also positive as before the changes the place was a used as a racetrack by idiots and it also actually encouraged more trucks to go through Waterford instead of around it like they should be doing.

The Quay is a positive ???
Ever seen an ambulance/fire engine try to get from one end to the other????

It looks good, but doesn't help much with traffic congestion!!
The toll bridge was built to keep HGVs out of the centre , so I wouldn't give the credit to the Quay development for that !

Mankbag

greenspurs wrote: »

The Quay is a positive ???
Ever seen an ambulance/fire engine try to get from one end to the other????

It looks good, but doesn't help much with traffic congestion!!
The toll bridge was built to keep HGVs out of the centre , so I wouldn't give the credit to the Quay development for that !

You're complaining about traffic congestion but you're also praising Kilkenny for bringing more cars into the city centre. Which is it? It can't be both.

toe_knee

Mankbag wrote: »

It's not about how they will get here, it's about where they will park.

FYI none of the plans for the brewery site envisaged a car park. In fact, all of the councillors were against the idea originally.

And they all voted for this except one, not sure I get your point

toe_knee

Cabaal wrote: »

In most city's you can't park a bus in the city centre, instead the busses drop people off and then collect them later. Also bringing more cars into a city centre is not a sustainable model

Never said it was a sustainable model but its the reality. Kilkenny doesn't have the infrastructure to cater for it any other way for now.

toe_knee

Cabaal wrote: »

In most city's you can't park a bus in the city centre, instead the busses drop people off and then collect them later. Also bringing more cars into a city centre is not a sustainable model

If its decided in a number of years to develop it as a business centre like the majority of citys then the parking would be required.

greenspurs

Mankbag wrote: »

You're complaining about traffic congestion but you're also praising Kilkenny for bringing more cars into the city centre. Which is it? It can't be both.

Steady on...

I mentioned traffic congestion in Waterford as a result of their changes on the quay. They reduced a wide boulevard down to two lanes with numerous roundabouts which resulted in slow moving traffic, they created congestion.
And add that to the quite ridiculous one way street set up, where if you go up a street, but cant get a parking space, you could have to drive a couple of kilometers to get back to your original position.
The Apple market/Michael St kinda/sometimes pedestrianised situation is a bit thick also.

That is quite different to the traffic setup in Kilkenny, where you can drive through the city centre and avail of nearby, reasonably priced parking.

Cabaal

greenspurs wrote: »

The Quay is a positive ???
Ever seen an ambulance/fire engine try to get from one end to the other????

Yep, and 99% of the time the issue is because of idiot motorists and poor road positioning.
Ireland is full if narrow roads and emergency vehicles can manage just fine, we don't all need 4 lane roads

It looks good, but doesn't help much with traffic congestion!!
The toll bridge was built to keep HGVs out of the centre , so I wouldn't give the credit to the Quay development for that !

and yet HGV's continued to use the quays until it was changed, imagine that.
Since the changes the usage has dropped

That is quite different to the traffic setup in Kilkenny, where you can drive through the city centre and avail of nearby, reasonably priced parking.

Funny thing is many in KIlkenny will disagree with you on that one, suppose if somebody just wants to focus on the negative its all they are going to see

greenspurs

Cabaal wrote: »

Yep, and 99% of the time the issue is because of idiot motorists and poor road positioning.
Ireland is full if narrow roads and emergency vehicles can manage just fine, we don't all need 4 lane roads

Poor positioning on a one lane main thoroughfare?? , one that has a big cement kerb on each side of the lane you are travelling on?
Would you recommend the cars hover ? Because there isn't much room either side for traffic to move out of the emergency services way if they have to travel the Quay.

Cabaal

greenspurs wrote: »

Poor positioning on a one lane main thoroughfare?? , one that has a big cement kerb on each side of the lane you are travelling on?
Would you recommend the cars hover ? Because there isn't much room either side for traffic to move out of the emergency services way if they have to travel the Quay.

How do they think cars get out of the way on other narrow roads in Waterford city, or even the likes of kIlkenny. Not alot of room in Rose Inn street for example.

By your logic i guess we'll have to change every street to 4 lanes wide to match what the quays were like

JohnC.

greenspurs wrote: »

Poor positioning on a one lane main thoroughfare?? , one that has a big cement kerb on each side of the lane you are travelling on?
Would you recommend the cars hover ? Because there isn't much room either side for traffic to move out of the emergency services way if they have to travel the Quay.

There's loads of room with the bus lanes and cycle lanes. I drive it every day and every day there are cars illegally parked in bus and cycle lanes and there's no problem getting past. Why would an ambulance be different if you pull over for a few seconds? I've done it for ambulances several times.

Mankbag

toe_knee wrote: »

And they all voted for this except one, not sure I get your point

Sorry, wasn't clear. I'm saying that they'll change their minds at the drop of a hat, which in this case they have. There still isn't a traffic plan for the city, which at this stage is unforgivable. So piecemeal solutions rule, which is no way to operate and not good in the long term.

Mankbag

greenspurs wrote: »

Steady on...

I mentioned traffic congestion in Waterford as a result of their changes on the quay. They reduced a wide boulevard down to two lanes with numerous roundabouts which resulted in slow moving traffic, they created congestion.
And add that to the quite ridiculous one way street set up, where if you go up a street, but cant get a parking space, you could have to drive a couple of kilometers to get back to your original position.
The Apple market/Michael St kinda/sometimes pedestrianised situation is a bit thick also.

That is quite different to the traffic setup in Kilkenny, where you can drive through the city centre and avail of nearby, reasonably priced parking.

Exactly. It's totally different to Kilkenny. And Kilkenny has lots of attractions in the centre that Waterford doesn't. So I don't see any point in comparing the two.

Somewhere like Oxford or Siena would be a better reference point as regards managing the future of traffic in Kilkenny, I'd suggest.

toe_knee

Mankbag wrote: »

Sorry, wasn't clear. I'm saying that they'll change their minds at the drop of a hat, which in this case they have. There still isn't a traffic plan for the city, which at this stage is unforgivable. So piecemeal solutions rule, which is no way to operate and not good in the long term.

I agree with that alright. Change their mind easily enough. Problem seems to be that no one has a good clear plan.

Mankbag

toe_knee wrote: »

I agree with that alright. Change their mind easily enough. Problem seems to be that no one has a good clear plan.

You said it, dude!

greenspurs

HA HAA..
I came on here praising Kilkenny , but anyway .
Argue away kids. Your opinion matters ........................

Cabaal

greenspurs wrote: »

HA HAA..
I came on here praising Kilkenny , but anyway .
Argue away kids. Your opinion matters ........................

Upset people don't agree with you so you resort to childish comments,
:rolleyes:

greenspurs

Cabaal wrote: »

Upset people don't agree with you so you resort to childish comments,
:rolleyes:

Really?

Captain Havoc

Let's just stay on topic, thanks.

road_high

If people are comparing to Waterford- I find that way handier than Kilkenny to get in and out of. 5 mins off the motorway you can be in and parked along the Quays without a bother and there's always lots of spaces. Also lots of nice wide pedestrianized streets

Mankbag

Apparently the temporary car park on the brewery site won't be happening after the County Council opted not to mount a defence against a judicial review.