St. Patrick's Principal resigns. See mod warning post #61

mrbrianj

"Only 2 out of the 24 children being taken in this year are non CoI."

WOW! with the struggle in the area for school places how do they manage to only take in 24 kids?

The Bishop Basher

mrbrianj wrote: »

"Only 2 out of the 24 children being taken in this year are non CoI."

WOW! with the struggle in the area for school places how do they manage to only take in 24 kids?

That's why they refused a teacher.

Their plan is to keep the school as small as possible so they can abuse the rules on minority faiths and admit CoI kids only.

The rector has added an extra and unprecedented condition whereby he personally gets to sign off on the parish affiliation clause for each and every applicant.

It's all about power, ego and a good old dose of sectarianism.

The overwhelming vote of no confidence in the rector and the BoM last night will make no difference either.

<Mod snip: Unsubstantiated accusation>

I have no part in the church these days thankfully <Mod snip: Unsubstantiated accusation>

I can't do much about that..

But i'm not going to stand by and watch the school that both I and my children attended become a protestant only school in a town as modern, vibrant and diverse as Greystones.

What's going on here is both sinister and divisive.

<Mod snip: Unsubstantiated accusation>

The equally incompetent archbishop should also resign.

I've witnessed his intransigence. He won't be moved. Nothing will improve until this rector is gone.

TheBun44

Remember under the new legislation if the school board allows it, it will be legal to make the school 100% Church of Ireland. But it is illegal to have a parish affiliation clause.

To stop the school becoming 100% Church of Ireland, the board of management would need to be removed and replaced by more reasonable people. The Canon only has power because of them, they approve the admissions.

The Bishop Basher

TheBun44 wrote: »

To stop the school becoming 100% Church of Ireland, the board of management would need to be removed and replaced by more reasonable people. The Canon only has power because of them, they approve the admissions.

Exactly.

The rector is well ahead of you.. Just the other way round..

He's removed almost all of the reasonable people and surrounded himself with a majority of "yes" people.

That's why this years admission is almost exclusively CoI.

2011

Rennaws wrote: »

That's why they refused a teacher.

Their plan is to keep the school as small as possible so they can abuse the rules on minority faiths and admit CoI kids only.

Speculation, or can you provide something to back that up?

It's all about power, ego and a good old dose of sectarianism.

I'm not a fan of the rector's policy, but I think that it is important not confuse opinions and assumptions with what can be demonstrated as fact.

I very much doubt that it's "all about power, ego and a good old dose of sectarianism".

The Bishop Basher

2011 wrote: »

Speculation, or can you provide something to back that up?

It's not speculation.

Go read the resignation letters. They're very clear on this.

An unprecedented refusal of a new teacher and a change in admissions to favour CoI children.

Further proof, if you still need it, can be found in this years numbers.

A tiny class size of only 24, 22 of whom are CoI.

I'm not sure what else you need to convince you..

2011 wrote: »

I'm not a fan of the rector's policy, but I think that it is important not confuse opinions and assumptions with what can be demonstrated as fact.

I very much doubt that it's "all about power, ego and a good old dose of sectarianism".

You're entitled to your view. I've seen it up close and personal and i'm entitled to mine. I can back up anything I say with personal accounts..

People don't know the half of it. They really don't.

evolving_doors

Rennaws wrote: »

It's not speculation.

Go read the resignation letters. They're very clear on this.

An unprecedented refusal of a new teacher and a change in admissions to favour CoI children.

Further proof, if you still need it, can be found in this years numbers.

A tiny class size of only 24, 22 of whom are CoI.

I'm not sure what else you need to convince you..



You're entitled to your view. I've seen it up close and personal and i'm entitled to mine. I can back up anything I say with personal accounts..

People don't know the half of it. They really don't.

Are these in the public domain?

evolving_doors

Rennaws wrote: »

Exactly.

The rector is well ahead of you.. Just the other way round..

He's removed almost all of the reasonable people and surrounded himself with a majority of "yes" people.

That's why this years admission is almost exclusively CoI.

Anywhere I know of that has had a change in Principal usually follows on with a change of board members, maybe not straight away but over a year or two.
Once this board settles then it stays the same for years (decades!!), so that when there's another new principal some annoyed people typically remark what you just said above.

The Bishop Basher

evolving_doors wrote: »

Are these in the public domain?

I don't know. I have them and I'm not on any board or associated so I would assume so..

Here's a quote from one..

"The School Enrolment policy has changed. Priority is given to those children whose families regularly attend St Patrick’s Church and who are involved in the faith life of the Parish. Prior to 2014/2015 priority was given to children who were baptised in to the Church of Ireland or whose families were on the St Patrick’s Parish register. Without making any judgement on the change
itself, this is a change which is known and acknowledged. The published policy for St Patrick’s School enrolments has not been updated to reflect the changes in its implementation.

The Board’s messaging – insisting repeatedly that there has been no change, was impossible for me to support. It would be open and transparent to acknowledge the changes and stand over them, if they are felt to be correct."

evolving_doors wrote: »

Anywhere I know of that has had a change in Principal usually follows on with a change of board members, maybe not straight away but over a year or two.
Once this board settles then it stays the same for years (decades!!), so that when there's another new principal some annoyed people typically remark what you just said above.

You could be right.

But what once was a great school is now lying in tatters with a principal resigned, a vice principal resigned, a secretary who was the back bone of the place pushed out, teachers and new board members also now resigned and school term starts again tomorrow.

People are leaving the parish in their droves. The annual Summer BBQ which is usually a highlight event sold 7 tickets this year and had to be cancelled.

Maybe you're right and this is all part of a necessary purge.

There's an awful lot of people who disagree with you though.

And meanwhile a school and a parish lie in ruins.

Wicklow Will

2011 wrote: »

Speculation, or can you provide something to back that up?





I'm not a fan of the rector's policy, but I think that it is important not confuse opinions and assumptions with what can be demonstrated as fact.

I very much doubt that it's "all about power, ego and a good old dose of sectarianism".

In the fullness of time proof of this will be forthcoming, and I can assure you that such proof exists. However, for now and legal reasons this powder has to be kept dry.



Sadly these allegations appear to be the only interpretation that can be placed upon the stance being assumed by the Rector and the BOM, if one were to apply the “man on the Clapham omnibus” standard, to recall my old civil law lecturer’s phrase.

Wicklow Will

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/parents-at-greystones-school-back-no-confidence-vote-in-board-of-management-1.3613027



Interesting report from the PTA EGM. When will the Minister step in and end the agony of this debacle, as it appears the Rector is out of control and Archbishop either unwilling or unable to call him to heel?

recedite

Wicklow Will wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/parents-at-greystones-school-back-no-confidence-vote-in-board-of-management-1.3613027

As it says there...

The parents’ vote, however, carries no legal weight as a board of management may only be dissolved by the Minister for Education at the request of the patron body.

The person representing the "patron body" I think in this case would be the Archbishop of Dublin and Glendalough, so the ball is indeed firmly in his court.
That is to say, he might not be in a position to remove a rector appointed by the parishioners, but he would be in a position to recommend to the Dept. of Education that the BOM of a state funded school be dissolved.

Controversy erupted during the summer when (the school) principal wrote to parents to state that she was resigning on foot of the school’s “new direction” in making admission to State-funded education a “collateral benefit of parochial engagement”.

TheBun44

Just to clear a few things up from posts above:

1. The process for removing a board member involves the the Patron (the archbishop in this case) requesting the minister to remove them. The guidlines specify that it most start with the patron but I’m sure in reality the minister can contact the patron about any dispute like this.

2. The admissions policy has changed, you can download it off the school website. It states the active members of the parish get priority. But it wasn’t changed recently, it was changed a few years ago. So when the rector says nothing has changed he is technically correct. But the policy will be in breach of legislation by 2019.

Another thing worth mentioning is that a large amount of members of the Dail voted for the legislation reluctantly because the minority religion part did not sit well with them, there are also other members and associates who will do anything to remove that part in the future. The legislation is to be reviewed in 3 years and the current situation in St. Patrick’s could start a chain of events that leads to the legislation being altered and then the admissions will be on a lottery basis only. What the rector is doing is playing right into the hands of people who are pushing for a full secular school system.

The Bishop Basher

recedite wrote: »

As it says there...The person representing the "patron body" I think in this case would be the Archbishop of Dublin and Glendalough, so the ball is indeed firmly in his court.

The archbishop is completely impotent here.

Aside from the fact that he and the rogue rector are good buddies and will have each others backs, unfortunately he's also every bit as incompetent as the rector which is why he's also gone to ground on this one hoping it'll all just blow over.

TheBun44 wrote: »

Another thing worth mentioning is that a large amount of members of the Dail voted for the legislation reluctantly because the minority religion part did not sit well with them, there are also other members and associates who will do anything to remove that part in the future. The legislation is to be reviewed in 3 years and the current situation in St. Patrick’s could start a chain of events that leads to the legislation being altered and then the admissions will be on a lottery basis only. What the rector is doing is playing right into the hands of people who are pushing for a full secular school system.

100% Agreed.

The rector is single handedly destroying a system that's worked well for minority for religions for many years. It has always had the potential for abuse but has worked well on a good will basis. It only takes one to abuse that good will and destroy it for everyone else. I think we've found him.

That said, we really can't allow one persons ego do this much damage.

The Bishop Basher

By the way i'd just like to correct an earlier post as i've been pulled up on it for posting incorrect and inaccurate information..

The parish summer BBQ did in fact sell 9 tickets and not the 7 that I mentioned in a previous post.

I'm guessing the extra 2 are the Rector and his wife but in the interest of accuracy i thought i should share that update..

Honestly, the school is only a symptom of a far far greater problem...

The Rector.

Wicklow Will

Rennaws wrote: »

Exactly.

The rector is well ahead of you.. Just the other way round..

He's removed almost all of the reasonable people and surrounded himself with a majority of "yes" people.

That's why this years admission is almost exclusively CoI.

Precisely!

loyatemu

TheBun44 wrote: »

Another thing worth mentioning is that a large amount of members of the Dail voted for the legislation reluctantly because the minority religion part did not sit well with them, there are also other members and associates who will do anything to remove that part in the future. The legislation is to be reviewed in 3 years and the current situation in St. Patrick’s could start a chain of events that leads to the legislation being altered and then the admissions will be on a lottery basis only. What the rector is doing is playing right into the hands of people who are pushing for a full secular school system.

this is a good point - the patron may look at the situation and think "we're shooting ourselves in the foot here"

The Bishop Basher

loyatemu wrote: »

this is a good point - the patron may look at the situation and think "we're shooting ourselves in the foot here"

Honestly, i'd love to think he will but he won't.

He's more likely to promote the rector then reprimand him.

The BoM should be the failsafe but that's no longer an option either.

The CoI is in real trouble here with no leadership to steer them out of it.

Wicklow Will

Rennaws wrote: »

The archbishop is completely impotent here.

Aside from the fact that he and the rogue rector are good buddies and will have each others backs, unfortunately he's also every bit as incompetent as the rector which is why he's also gone to ground on this one hoping it'll all just blow over.



100% Agreed.

The rector is single handedly destroying a system that's worked well for minority for religions for many years. It has always had the potential for abuse but has worked well on a good will basis. It only takes one to abuse that good will and destroy it for everyone else. I think we've found him.

That said, we really can't allow one persons ego do this much damage.

Got it one, recedite - well in two really (lol) but you’re 100% correct in what you say. Shortsighted and ill informed but then again no one could ever tell him (the Rector) anything - he was always right (in his own mind) and wouldn’t listen to advice. He’s stealthily surrounding himself with ‘Yes Men’ (inc women in this idiom) both on the school BOM and the parish Vestry and won’t listen to those who try to advise otherwise or dare to differ with him. I’ve seen it first hand and experienced the result. How can any organisation or members of such work within such a system?

Wicklow Will

Rennaws wrote: »

Honestly, i'd love to think he will but he won't.

He's more likely to promote the rector then reprimand him.

The BoM should be the failsafe but that's no longer an option either.

The CoI is in real trouble here with no leadership to steer them out of it.

1000% CORRECT!!!!! And it kills me to see it so and feel powerless to stop it careering off the cliff edge. I have written to the Archbishop and Church House (Diocesan Board of Education) and all I got was a one line acknowledgement that my letter had been received. So much for an inclusive and in-touch Church - truly one could be forgiven for considering so many of them to be but self-serving and career oriented religious politicos. There are a FEW good eggs left in it (who remind me of the clergy I knew in my childhood and teenage years) and how they maintain their morale is beyond me!

The Bishop Basher

So the impotent archbishop is impotent on the matter

Surprise, surprise..

In a statement, Archbishop Jackson - the school’s patron - acknowledged that while St Patrick’s was facing challenging times, there was no evidence that the board was “dysfunctional”.

But how does he know that there's no evidence without speaking to parents or to the board for that matter

This doesn't even begin to go far enough..

The rector needs to resign from St Patrick's and the archbishop needs to resign for his incompetence in addressing this matter.

For those that don't know, the rector and the archbishop are good buddies behind the scenes and very much have each others backs. This wouldn't matter so much if not for the fact that between them they are doing such irreparable damage to St Patrick's school and to the reputation of Church of Ireland as a whole.

Nothing in Greystones will be resolved with the current rector in place. Too much has happened at this stage and that ship has sailed. He's clearly delusional about this and needs to step down from the parish.

The archbishop is doing the church irreparable damage through his abject failure to act and reign in his buddy who appears to have gone rogue.
This isn't going away. In fact it just keeps getting worse. If I was the rector and the arch i'd choose the easy way and the option that saves most face..

It appears both are going to go about this the hard way..

So be it..

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/church-of-ireland-archbishop-refuses-to-dissolve-greystones-school-board-1.3615949?mode=amp

recedite

Rennaws wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/church-of-ireland-archbishop-refuses-to-dissolve-greystones-school-board-1.3615949?mode=amp

According to the article, the Chairman of the BOM is the latest in a whole string of resignations.
In fairness to the Archbishop, it would be a violation of CoI principles to override the wishes of the parish. Individual parishes traditionally have their own level of autonomy.
However, his assessment that the BOM is not yet "dysfunctional" is questionable. The Chairman of the BOM has stepped down, the school principal has resigned along with some staff members, and the parents’ subcommittee of the PTA is in open revolt.
At what point does the BOM become "dysfunctional"?

TheBun44

The chairman of the board is the Canon who is the root of the whole problem. He is the one who changed the admissions policy and has stuffed the board with his cronies. He hasn’t resigned, he has asked to be replaced temporarily either because he so disliked he thinks it might blow over without him in situ or it is now actually taking a toll on him. Holding firm against the overall majority of your parish, the majority of parents in the school, the majority the people of Greystones and the views of most citizens in Ireland and also the law of the state most have some impact on the mental health of anyone no matter how much they probably believe that God is on their side.

The Bishop Basher

recedite wrote: »

However, his assessment that the BOM is not yet "dysfunctional" is questionable. The Chairman of the BOM has stepped down, the school principal has resigned along with some staff members, and the parents’ subcommittee of the PTA is in open revolt.
At what point does the BOM become "dysfunctional"?

Let's not forget we've also lost an incredibly talented vice principal who felt pushed out because he was the wrong religion.

I honestly hope the archbishop really does have no idea what's happening out here because if he does, the CoI in very serious trouble indeed.

I don't know how he can make that statement in good faith without speaking to the relevant parties. It's clear he put that out following assurances from the rector that all was well at the manor but he should have at least spoken to the sub committee.

To be blunt, he was talking nonsense..

TheBun44 wrote: »

The chairman of the board is the Canon who is the root of the whole problem. He is the one who changed the admissions policy and has stuffed the board with his cronies. He hasn’t resigned, he has asked to be replaced temporarily either because he so disliked he thinks it might blow over without him in situ or it is now actually taking a toll on him. Holding firm against the overall majority of your parish, the majority of parents in the school, the majority the people of Greystones and the views of most citizens in Ireland and also the law of the state most have some impact on the mental health of anyone no matter how much they probably believe that God is on their side.

I don't wish ill on anyone. I've heard the rector is looking like he's under a bit of pressure and I certainly hope he maintains his health etc.

That said, I hear his cronies were all sitting out front on Sunday like a mafia mob protecting him and I think to myself..

What has happened to St. Patrick's

He's destroyed what was once a thriving parish and a phenomenal school and he's now besmirching the reputation of the entire CoI. He's going to force the government to intervene and remove the minority exclusion for schools the length and breadth of the country. He's lying to everyone including the archbishop and he really needs to be stopped before he does any more damage but the problem is there's no one to stop him.

I know numerous people have written to the archbishop without so much as the courtesy of an acknowledgement so maybe the arch has pushed all his secretaries as well.

It was mentioned by a number of board members in their resignation letters that this was not a surprise. I don't think people have any idea what's been going on. It will all come out in the passage of time but I think people will be shocked.

There's no question that there needs to be a complete change from the very top. Nothing can continue with the same rector at the helm. It might be an idea to bring back some of the more experienced people who were kicked off the boards, to help advise guide the new generation. It's a wonderful busy and vibrant parish for any rector that embraces inclusivity and diversity and I sincerely hope we see someone like that soon because the alternative will be a disaster for both the parish and the school and will be a stain on the CoI as a whole.

TheBun44

I agree I wouldn’t wish anyone to get ill. But I am always an optimist and believe that people are capable of evolving once the weight or court of public opinion goes so far against them.

You speak of people not knowing the half of it which makes me feel this is one of these situations where there is no chance of the Canon and the board giving up their stance. It’s incredible that a group of people in charge of a school could disregard the wishes of the overall majority of parents and the parish. I’ve spoken to so many parents and they are so exasperated, life is hard enough without having to deal with this this nonsense.

I have written to the department again today. I hope everyone on this thread is doing the same.

Ps Edgar Swann deserve such respect for his stance in the paper today

Wicklow Will

TheBun44 wrote: »

I agree I wouldn’t wish anyone to get ill. But I am always an optimist and believe that people are capable of evolving once the weight or court of public opinion goes so far against them.

You speak of people not knowing the half of it which makes me feel this is one of these situations where there is no chance of the Canon and the board giving up their stance. It’s incredible that a group of people in charge of a school could disregard the wishes of the overall majority of parents and the parish. I’ve spoken to so many parents and they are so exasperated, life is hard enough without having to deal with this this nonsense.

I have written to the department again today. I hope everyone on this thread is doing the same.

Ps Edgar Swann deserve such respect for his stance in the paper today

You’re right there, TheBun, Edgar indeed deserves immense credit for his letter to A/bishop Jackson that was quoted in the IT yesterday. It is not something one does lightly - I thought very long and hard about the consequences to my own career and relationships within the CoI community before writing to him - so it had to demand even greater consideration for Edgar before he scribed that letter to the Arch. It is a measure of the man, that he did so and also of the depth of the pit of despair into which St Patricks has fallen, that he felt no alternative but to write to the Arch and to allow his communication with him, to go public.

Elsewhere in this thread, someone has mentioned that the move by the Chairman of the Board to step aside temporarily could be interpreted in two ways - the cynic within me says this is indeed a ploy on his behalf and that of the Arch. in an attempt to try and quieten the noise of public opinion currently raging, give time for the controversy to die down and once the water has settled the Rector will step in again as Chair to a board that looks pretty much the same. To my mind neither the Rector nor the Arch give tuppence for the concerns or opinions of the parents of SPNS, the sizeable number of parishioners who feel disenfranchised with church life in St Patricks nor the community’s concerns at the eroding level of ecumenism once so prevalent in Greystones.

What has to happen before the Archbishop, the Rector and current BOM in St Patrick’s NS do what is right?

stilltryingit

So, have the people who left the Board of Management been replaced yet? If not, how can the board be considered to be functional?

Wicklow Will

stilltryingit wrote: »

So, have the people who left the Board of Management been replaced yet? If not, how can the board be considered to be functional?

That - is a very good question! One has to query if the SPNS BoM has been legitimately quorate in any of its recent meetings?

The Bishop Basher

Wicklow Will wrote: »

That - is a very good question! One has to query if the SPNS BoM has been legitimately quorate in any of its recent meetings?

Unfortunately no one will be getting any answers to any questions.

The archbishop and the rector have circled the wagons and closed ranks..

Despite the archbishop never having spoken to parents, parishioners, what’s left of the board, or the sub committee, he’s decided everything is fine and dandy.

It would be funny if it weren’t so serious.

The archbishop will back the rector 100% and has already backed himself into a corner on that.

Up to now it was the case that the rector needed to go but now they both need to go.

The incompetence and arrogance is astounding.

The stories will emerge in due course. People will be shocked to hear how the rector has been behaving behind closed doors. I’ve seen it myself up close and personal. The man is driven by power and ego. I don’t know why either of these men are in this job. Neither of them give a **** about people.. I would have thought honesty, integrity and above all a compassionate nature and a genuine care for people would be prerequisites.

Obviously not..

Wicklow Will

I see that the new temporary Chair of St Patrick’s NS continues the trend in arrogance and overbearing condescension in a letter issued this week to the parents of pupils in the school: https://www.greystonesguide.ie/everything-you-know-is-wrong/

One has to ask whether in fact it comes from her as Chair of the BOM or is it from the Patron himself, seeing its written on Diocesan Office headed paper?

Either which way, it does nothing to calm troubled waters or dampen the fires currently consuming St Patrick’s NS and parish; neither does it do anything to make amends for how the Principal, VP, Teachers or parents of the PTA have been treated by the BOM and the Archbishop and the Diocesan Board of Education in their contemptuous refusal to even meet with them to discuss the issues in contention here. If I were a parent of St Pat’s PTA, I’d be pretty incensed at being addressed in such a high-handed manner as this letter betrays! You don’t treat or speak to your fellow stakeholders like that folks, not if you wish to engender good relationships with them. How can you EVER expect them to have ANY faith, trust or respect for you or the institution you represent, in the future?

Well the Archbishop and his temporary Chair sure have played a blinder this time!