burning fat

CramCycle

It is actually quite difficult to fight against, once your hormone levels are thrown out of whack or your hypothalmus thinks, this is where you should be it can take a long time to essentially "train" it out of that.

It is the main reason diets fail in the end, it is that we stop them after we hit a target. Most diets require you to keep going or have a very slow withdrawal into a balanced diet.

LollipopJimmy

Without a decent diet you're at nothing once you hit late 20's

My grub today for anybody that's interested. Two poached eggs this morning also

dastardly00

syntheticjunk wrote: »

People know why they are overweight and how deal with it, but can't. Looks like in many cases it's not about what to do or what to eat, but they need a help to deal with addiction.....

I'm continually surprised that a lot of people don't know why they are overweight and they don't know how to deal with it.

So many people still say that their food intake is good and they just need to do a bit more exercise to shift their belly fat...

Macy0161

dastardly00 wrote: »

I'm continually surprised that a lot of people don't know why they are overweight and they don't know how to deal with it.

So many people still say that their food intake is good and they just need to do a bit more exercise to shift their belly fat...

In fairness, there is a lot of mixed messages and marketing out there too. People are told to go all in, on unsustainable (in one go) diet changes, when for most people and especially those significantly overweight, portion control will get them a decent start.

And then the whole "eat healthier" thing, while the objective is good, in terms of calorific deficit it doesn't help. Yes, nuts might be healthier than a packet of crisps, but a decent handful of nuts is more calorific. Same with bread - a wrap is as many (or more) calories than two slices of a white pan, wholegrain and seeded bread are definitely more calorific than a white pan. Obviously there are other reasons you'd switch, but making such things your only change is probably doing more harm than good.

For the vast majority of people a calorie is a calorie, and losing weight is a question of calories in being less than calories out. Exercise can help with that equation, but I'd give it 20% at most. Speaking as someone who has gone from 133ishkg to 71ish! Exercise gives you the bit of wriggle room...

veganrun

How did you shift the weight Macy?

Effects

accensi0n wrote: »

Any chance you're doing this when you get home?

"I DESERVE this cheeseburger and ice-cream"

That's me all the time, except I'm good at balancing it. I work off any extra crap I eat, and I don't eat it all the time. It's more the overall health implications of eating a full tub of ice cream I worry about. I don't worry about my weight luckily.

magicbastarder

on my commute (which i rarely do more than twice a week - i work from home a lot), i do the morning commute fasted, which is meant to be good for fat burning. however, i'm not so good when it comes to eating once i get into work, in that i generally don't eat till about 10am (i get into work at 8am), and usually eat an apple and a banana, and i think fasted rides work best if you have protein rather than carbs.

ford2600

magicbastarder wrote: »

on my commute (which i rarely do more than twice a week - i work from home a lot), i do the morning commute fasted, which is meant to be good for fat burning. however, i'm not so good when it comes to eating once i get into work, in that i generally don't eat till about 10am (i get into work at 8am), and usually eat an apple and a banana, and i think fasted rides work best if you have protein rather than carbs.

It means you'll burn more fat on bike than if you had sugar pops for breakfast; not that you'll drop fat (assuming you change no other variable).

If you ride balls out you'll use up glycogen in muscles and liver and fat/glycogen once heart rate drops.


This study
https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/arti...970-014-0054-7
concluded
"To the authors’ knowledge, this is the first study to investigate body composition changes associated with aerobic exercise performed in the fasted versus fed state while subjects maintained a caloric deficit. It has been hypothesized that exercising when fasted forces the body to rely on using fat as a substrate rather than carbohydrate, thereby reducing body fat to a greater extent than performance of post-prandial exercise. Our results refute the veracity of this hypothesis. Although both groups lost a significant amount of weight and fat mass, no differences were seen between conditions in any outcome measure regardless of pre-exercise feeding status."

along with a discussion of other somewhat similar studies.

CramCycle

I started eating "healthy" breakfasts because conventional wisdom tells you that breakfast is hugely important. I put on alot of weight really quickly. Nowadays the closest to breakfast I have is a cup of coffee but usually it is just diluted lemon on the bike on the way in.

Started keeping a food diary recently as well, and my weight is shifting downwards slowly. I am currently 87kg but was 90kg up until a few weeks ago. Last year I was a shade above 80kg over the summer.

I currently am on about 180 to 200g carbs a day, between 600 and 1000calories.

The fasted vs non fasted argument is an odd one, it really depends more on the type of exercise and what you were eating "non fasted" (in my opinion). Insulin spikes will add to weight gain which will be associated with high sugar and high carb foods but if you are going all out, you probably burn it up anyway and burn up non fat stores. A personal opinion here would also be that decent warm downs are very important for helping weight loss if you have been going all out.

The long and short is, as it always has been, quite simple. Unless you have some specific sport or target outside of general weight loss, then the two things you need to lose weight are exercise and an improved diet. Excercise is addictive but it comes with the addage that if you are not used to it and you go mental from the start, hormonal responses can be hard to fight ie emptying the fridge when you get home. This takes effort and will power. An improved diet is the same, alot of the western world have calorie rich, high carb foods that are cheap and easy to get, and disappointingly, not tremendously filling. Many of us, our bodies have become used to it and are feedback systems have become skewed, with our bodies telling us when we drop down to a more balanced and healthy diet that we are under feeding. This is no different than a drug addict in many ways and is incredibly hard to fight for many people. Hence why people like me need plans, alternatives, and ways around it.

Those saying it is simple are correct from the math end of things, but are horrendously incorrect from the human side of things. Whats easy for you is not necessarily easy for everyone. It is why some addicts can walk away from things without batting an eyelid, while others come down with awful withdrawal symptoms that the other person simply did not experience. Your metabolism then is affected by your genetics, your environment, what illnesses you have and so on. The gut microbiome also has a huge role to play and that is not something you can just grab out of a fit person and implant in yourself (well you could but that is a road I presume noone is going down here).

mloc123

veganrun wrote: »

How did you shift the weight Macy?

I am gonna go out on a limb here and guess... through a combination of reducing calorie intake and increasing calorie burning (exercise).

There is no mystery to losing weight. Dedication.

Macy0161

veganrun wrote: »

How did you shift the weight Macy?

Well I yoyo'd on the crash diets/ whole sale changes for a few years, but what worked for me was...

1. Worked out my daily maintenance calories (TDEE - scooby snacks is a handy online calculator, but I did it on the formula that was in the Fitness or Diet or Nutrition board sticky)
2. Took 500 from that for my food deficit
3. Downloaded myfitnesspal
4. Overwrote the target that gave me
5. Tracked (honestly, and accurately) my food in take
6. Tried to "earn" 500 a day from exercise (calorie burn is only estimates, but I figured if I tried to keep 500, i'd still be in additional deficit if it wasn't accurate)
7. Weighed in weekly
8. Based on that weekly weigh in figure, recalculated maintenance and back to point 2!

I found this meant I gradually made changes to my diet, in a sustainable way. When I started, it really was just portion control. I continued (and still do) eat breads, sweet things including a nightly boost/ kitkat for a long time. I try to make my own now rather than processed, and have swapped in a lot more fruit for my sugar kick. I also kept up my Friday night beers and sunday evening couple of pints. Back to the sustainability...

As I became more serious about training, I started tracking protein in take more seriously too. But protein target was based on target weight, not my current weight.

I'm still not convinced I've a healthy relationship with food, as I can't really let go of the tracking even now at maintenance(ish), but then I'm one of the 10% that is keeping the weight off so I'm willing to live with that. I tend to focus on my weekly totals (available in myfitnesspal) rather than daily. I'm generally "good" during the week, and don't sweat it too much over the weekend. My diet is still evolving as I try new things.

My children see me tracking, but they also see me eating cake and my message to them (myself) and anyone is anything and everything, in moderation!

Just as it's been mentioned, I've found I'm less liable to raid the fridge post ride if I at least start off with less sugary carbs on long spins. Not only the fridge raiding, but I have found that particularly on sportives, that if I only eat sweet stuff, then raid the cake table at the end, I do experience quite a sugar crash. Cold sweats the works. Post sportive and post beer are the biggest will power testers for me.

magicbastarder

CramCycle wrote: »

I started eating "healthy" breakfasts because conventional wisdom tells you that breakfast is hugely important.

to simplify the story, the 'breakfast is the most important meal of the day' line was invented by kelloggs:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/nov/28/breakfast-health-america-kellog-food-lifestyle

py

Discipline.


It's the hunger (:pac:) to learn what food is good or bad... understanding what makes food good or bad.

Getting an understanding of how your (everyone is unique) body reacts to different food when going through your normal day and also if you're out on the bike.

Recognising what hunger actually feels like, not the boredom you feel and think you're hungry. Actual hunger. Try fasting for a day (or more) and see what actual hunger feels like, it's not all that bad and I was able to work/parent/cycle whilst doing it (commuting and extended low intensity rides). When I found out what actual hunger is I was able to ignore those irritating messages from the brain telling me I'm hungry when I'm not. I found upping my water consumption also helped with the boredom hunger stuff too.

Eating a wide varierty of foods. Don't like vegetables? Really, You've tried them all? White meat and fish is top notch and can be delicious. Don't like fish? Ease in to it, try breaded fillet of cod/salmon and work from there. You don't have to take giant leaps when changing your food intake. In fact I found small changes worked for me in the long term and it's been a gradual process for a number of years.

I've lost half of what Macy0161 has done so far (Congrats, fantastic transformation I bet). Something I heard stuck with me.. "You don't see many fat old people" (maybe you do but I haven't) but it flipped a switch upstairs and I got to work. At times it can seem obsessive but I feel/look much much better and I've still a bit to go, another 10-15Kg drop would be great for my health and cycling.

There will always be those days where it doesn't work out or perhaps you want a cheat meal. Once you get through that day, leave it behind and get back on track. Routine and planning is key for this stuff. Cheat meals can be interpreted in different ways too. Some people take their cheat meal as an all out attack on the nearest take away and others use it to simply to consume more of the same healthy food. Either works. Just remember that the scales will be a little different after this day so don't panic. It's not an easy or quick path. Reversing years (for me it was years) of laziness (lazy food choices and physically lazy) takes time. Haven't mentioned alcohol up until this point.. I don't really consume it anymore, perhaps once every 6 months as it just doesn't agree with me physically.

My daily food looks something like:

8am-9am 1-1.5 litres of water at home and during my commute

10am: porridge with fruit mixed in (berries mostly)

12pm: Typically a protein bar or source though I don't always have this. Might have a cup of tea with low fat milk around this time too. Again, not always.

2pm: Dinner - largest meal of the day with carbs (vegetables/rice/pasta) and protein (could be anything)

4pm: Piece of fruit - kiwi, melon, apple, banana... whatever is there.

6pm: Piece of fish with small amount of carbs (could be veg or a single slice of brown bread) or my favourite of late is an omelette (2 whole with 2 whites) with spinach, tomatoes and mushrooms.

I'm done eating for the day and never feel hungry after that. Additional water throughout the day/evening and usually bring it up to about 2.5-3 litres for day. I might take on some electrolytes with some of that water too.

C3PO

CramCycle wrote: »

I currently am on about 180 to 200g carbs a day, between 600 and 1000calories.

Am I reading that wrong ... you're surviving on 1000 calories a day?

CramCycle

C3PO wrote: »

Am I reading that wrong ... you're surviving on 1000 calories a day?

At the minute yes, varies day to day but not far off it. Only a week in but haven't noticed any issues.

Currently 2 x mix drinks which are 185each, then a dinner in the evening. The dinners vary and are typically veg heavy with some meat, typically 250 to 500calories (although last night it was 700.

Finding being off my treats the hardest bit, I actually salivate ala Homer Simpson when people have nice things near me.

Today for example I will have one shake soon, one before my evening race and then bed. I'll let you know if ti screws me over during the race tomorrow.

C3PO

CramCycle wrote: »

At the minute yes, varies day to day but not far off it. Only a week in but haven't noticed any issues.

Currently 2 x mix drinks which are 185each, then a dinner in the evening. The dinners vary and are typically veg heavy with some meat, typically 250 to 500calories (although last night it was 700.

Finding being off my treats the hardest bit, I actually salivate ala Homer Simpson when people have nice things near me.

Today for example I will have one shake soon, one before my evening race and then bed. I'll let you know if ti screws me over during the race tomorrow.

Race ... !

How many hours cycling are you doing per week?

CramCycle

C3PO wrote: »

Race ... !

How many hours cycling are you doing per week?

Between 10 and 13hours, depending on if their is a weekend race or not, probably very little in comparison to many here. This includes my commute which makes up 7.5 hours a week.

Just to be clear, this is only the first week of this style of eating and I am not sure if it is for me just yet. I am going to give it three weeks to see are there noticeable differences. I expect to lose power but hopefully the weight loss will compensate. Before this I had gone off the reservation and was clearing easily 6000calories a day and probably between 750 and 1000carbs.

The other thing I am noticing is that I am saving money galore at the minute, if I threw all the change I would have spent on treats into a jar, I'll have a new MTB in a few months. Regrettably I typically pay by card and all that extra dough is getting sucked away by my family.

mloc123

CramCycle wrote: »

Between 10 and 13hours, depending on if their is a weekend race or not, probably very little in comparison to many here. This includes my commute which makes up 7.5 hours a week.

Just to be clear, this is only the first week of this style of eating and I am not sure if it is for me just yet. I am going to give it three weeks to see are there noticeable differences. I expect to lose power but hopefully the weight loss will compensate. Before this I had gone off the reservation and was clearing easily 6000calories a day and probably between 750 and 1000carbs.

The other thing I am noticing is that I am saving money galore at the minute, if I threw all the change I would have spent on treats into a jar, I'll have a new MTB in a few months. Regrettably I typically pay by card and all that extra dough is getting sucked away by my family.

I thought I was bad

Macy0161

py wrote: »

There will always be those days where it doesn't work out or perhaps you want a cheat meal. Once you get through that day, leave it behind and get back on track. Routine and planning is key for this stuff. Cheat meals can be interpreted in different ways too. Some people take their cheat meal as an all out attack on the nearest take away and others use it to simply to consume more of the same healthy food. Either works. Just remember that the scales will be a little different after this day so don't panic. It's not an easy or quick path.

My approach has been to track bad days as accurately as I can, park it, and move on. The big thing is not to let a bad day, turn into a bad weekend, turn into a bad week. Unless it's a holiday, and then just feck it, eat and drink what you want!

As for takeaways, we don't as a household have them too often, but I did change from a creamy curry to a black bean option that tends to have lots of veg, and I just dropped the chips and noodles I used to have on top of the rice (was never a fried rice fan anyway) - the portions are massive anyway. When I think back, it used to be curry with boiled rice, full portion of chips and then split a fried noodles... Meals out are rare enough that I don't really worry (back to track and move on).

After that, my "cheat meals" are fakeaway options normally. They're a bit more than my usual meals, but not "bad". Taco chips, with oven baked potato wedge things and homemade sauce is my usual, which I batch make - lots of veg (lots of frozen peppers), added beans, low fat mince (and just the aldi seasoning packs).

Maintenance for me is about 2400, and I'd hit that every day. I try to keep the exercise earned for the weekend. I tend to go high enough over a morning - what might be considered a breakfast at 7.30-8 when I get to work, then a second breakfast at 11, and a chicken salad for lunch. Evenings will depend on training/ racing/ dad cabs. Quite often something when I get home, and then something later on 9ish (quite often a few slices of toast).

One thing to watch for anyone tracking is drinks - my milk intake can add up over a day. I normally just guestimate, but I'd be a regular tea drinker in work!

C3PO

CramCycle wrote: »

Between 10 and 13hours, depending on if their is a weekend race or not, probably very little in comparison to many here. This includes my commute which makes up 7.5 hours a week.

Just to be clear, this is only the first week of this style of eating and I am not sure if it is for me just yet. I am going to give it three weeks to see are there noticeable differences. I expect to lose power but hopefully the weight loss will compensate. Before this I had gone off the reservation and was clearing easily 6000calories a day and probably between 750 and 1000carbs.

The other thing I am noticing is that I am saving money galore at the minute, if I threw all the change I would have spent on treats into a jar, I'll have a new MTB in a few months. Regrettably I typically pay by card and all that extra dough is getting sucked away by my family.

From 6,000 to 1,000 calories per day! I'd love to hear what effect this has on your cycling performance as you progress. What is the end game? How much weight do you want to lose and what do you plan to eat when you reach the target?
Sorry .. lots of questions, but I'm very interested!

uck51js9zml2yt

CramCycle wrote: »

Between 10 and 13hours, depending on if their is a weekend race or not, probably very little in comparison to many here. This includes my commute which makes up 7.5 hours a week.

Just to be clear, this is only the first week of this style of eating and I am not sure if it is for me just yet. I am going to give it three weeks to see are there noticeable differences. I expect to lose power but hopefully the weight loss will compensate. Before this I had gone off the reservation and was clearing easily 6000calories a day and probably between 750 and 1000carbs.

The other thing I am noticing is that I am saving money galore at the minute, if I threw all the change I would have spent on treats into a jar, I'll have a new MTB in a few months. Regrettably I typically pay by card and all that extra dough is getting sucked away by my family.

Put them in a jar instead.:)
But seriously 6000 Cal's a day is waaayy more than you need.

I'm 92kg. Lost 8kg for heart surgery and put it on again and a bit more the last 2 years.
Really need to get back on my diet and get more exercise.
I do a lot of walking in my job.

CramCycle

C3PO wrote: »

From 6,000 to 1,000 calories per day! I'd love to hear what effect this has on your cycling performance as you progress. What is the end game? How much weight do you want to lose and what do you plan to eat when you reach the target?
Sorry .. lots of questions, but I'm very interested!

My biggest issue at the minute is tracking weight changes as I am losing lots of fluids so it is hard to tell but over tiem it should become clear.

Ideal weight at the start of the year was 80kg so a 10kg drop but as time has went on with changes to diet and exercise having little affect, I am aiming for 84kg by the end of the three weeks, so a kilo a week. Will report in after the race tonight. Have the Wexford 2 day in a month, so that will be the real test.

Macy0161

fwiw, particularly dropping that last few kg, my FTP was fairly static. Speed went up even on the flat, and obviously power to weight improved. When trying to lose and train at the same time I did struggle at times to fuel training properly, and also recovery. Got myself in a hole with lingering colds a couple of times through that, and not knowing when to back off - that was a couple of years ago now, in my first serious attempt at training. I am better now at backing off and dropping intensity of workouts.

With the injury, I've gone up a few KG (despite getting back on the turbo pretty quickly), but obviously the sundry activity even just around the office has dropped. I'm concentrating on fueling the repair though.

C3PO

CramCycle wrote:

My biggest issue at the minute is tracking weight changes as I am losing lots of fluids so it is hard to tell but over tiem it should become clear.

Ideal weight at the start of the year was 80kg so a 10kg drop but as time has went on with changes to diet and exercise having little affect, I am aiming for 84kg by the end of the three weeks, so a kilo a week. Will report in after the race tonight. Have the Wexford 2 day in a month, so that will be the real test.

With a very rough calculation I would reckon that you are burning approximately 2,000 calories a day more than you are consuming so I would expect that your planned kg a week is about right. Tough way to do it though ... more willpower than I have!

CramCycle

mloc123 wrote: »

I thought I was bad

I would eat a packet of chocolate hob nobs a day on top of my regular dinner and all day snacking. I am that guy who would order a wagon wheel pizza for myself and finish it before bed.

Race tonight was OK, the group went from the gun and was definetly faster than others so hard to tell. I held in there until the line and only for a little too much insulin I probably would have done better.

I did bonk on the way home and ate a sandwich and a donut for safety, Still under the 1000 but not as low as planned.

LollipopJimmy

CramCycle wrote: »

I would eat a packet of chocolate hob nobs a day on top of my regular dinner and all day snacking. I am that guy who would order a wagon wheel pizza for myself and finish it before bed.

Race tonight was OK, the group went from the gun and was definetly faster than others so hard to tell. I held in there until the line and only for a little too much insulin I probably would have done better.

I did bonk on the way home and ate a sandwich and a donut for safety, Still under the 1000 but not as low as planned.

I used to go for the packet of wagon wheels and toffypops for I think €3 in applegreen every night, plus two bags of monster munch.

Well done in your own transformation!

magicbastarder

i have *never* understood the attraction for wagon wheels. even when i was a kid, it was a 'what are you trying to fob me off with?' reaction.

LollipopJimmy

magicbastarder wrote: »

i have *never* understood the attraction for wagon wheels. even when i was a kid, it was a 'what are you trying to fob me off with?' reaction.

I had a few guinness tonight and would actually murder for a jammy wagon wheel

Macy0161

Haven't listened to it yet (podcast overload with the Tour!), but the TrainerRoad Ask A Cycling Coach Podcast appears to be a fat burning special this week.

fat bloke

CramCycle wrote: »

I did bonk on the way home and ate a sandwich and a donut for safety, Still under the 1000 but not as low as planned.

Are you sure your numbers are right? A sandwich and a donut combo alone could be 1000 calories.

6000 is huge and 1000 is unsustainably and arguably unhealthily low, in my opinion