burning fat

dastardly00

CramCycle wrote: »

I did bonk on the way home and ate a sandwich and a donut for safety, Still under the 1000 but not as low as planned.

I've the same query as fat bloke below... are your numbers correct?
A plain ring donut and ham & cheese sandwich from Tesco for example are 235 kcal and 349 kcal respectively. That's 585 kcal... does that mean you ate less than 415 kcal during the rest of the day??

fat bloke wrote: »

Are you sure your numbers are right? A sandwich and a donut combo alone could be 1000 calories.

py

I'm interested to see how recovery goes over the next 24-48 hours after a race.

TooObvious

This is an interesting thread. What's especially interesting is that the discussion seems to have moved on to debating patently unhealthy means of losing weight.

Restricting your calorie intake to 1000 a day is unhealthy for your average sedentary person let alone one undertaking 10 hours of cycling a week, it is unsustainable and will substantially weaken your immune system. And if half of that calorific intake comes from a sandwich and a donut(?) then you're doing yourself absolutely no favours.

magicbastarder

i don't think the sandwich and donut were part of the diet plan, to be fair!

dastardly00

I think we should wait for CramCycle to reply back to confirm about whether 1,000 kcal was his total intake yesterday or not*










*if he's still alive**








** that's obviously a joke!!

fat bloke

dastardly00 wrote: »

I think we should wait for CramCycle to reply back to confirm about whether 1,000 kcal was his total intake yesterday or not*










*if he's still alive**


** that's obviously a joke!!

Still though... he's bound to be in a weakened state.... - worth a little knock on his door

:pac:

Felexicon

I'm not sure what your knowledge base is when it comes to nutrition but I can tell you that 1000 kcal a day for an adult is not enough and will lead to health issues if followed for too long.

If weight loss is something you are desperate to achieve I would suggest seeking professional advice so it can be achieved in a healthy and sustainable way.

If you do continue consuming calories at this rate your body will go in to "starvation mode" and you will not continue to lose weight.

CramCycle

fat bloke wrote: »

Are you sure your numbers are right? A sandwich and a donut combo alone could be 1000 calories.

6000 is huge and 1000 is unsustainably and arguably unhealthily low, in my opinion

It was a guesstimation. I had taken two shakes over the day and these totalled about 380calories, but I didn't finish the second so a bit less.

dastardly00 wrote: »

I've the same query as fat bloke below... are your numbers correct?
A plain ring donut and ham & cheese sandwich from Tesco for example are 235 kcal and 349 kcal respectively. That's 585 kcal... does that mean you ate less than 415 kcal during the rest of the day??

Pretty much. Donut was small so I estimated that at 300, the sandwich was average but thin bread, I guessed 400 but could have been more.

py wrote: »

I'm interested to see how recovery goes over the next 24-48 hours after a race.

Seems fine. i mean I bonked after the race and took a lift in the end half way home. The sandwich seemed to make me feel unwell but unsure if that was just cramps from the race or not. the only complaint I have was I had a terrible night sleep but that could be a number of things. Today I feel good and am busy so only sitting down to respond now.

TooObvious wrote: »

This is an interesting thread. What's especially interesting is that the discussion seems to have moved on to debating patently unhealthy means of losing weight.

Restricting your calorie intake to 1000 a day is unhealthy for your average sedentary person let alone one undertaking 10 hours of cycling a week, it is unsustainable and will substantially weaken your immune system. And if half of that calorific intake comes from a sandwich and a donut(?) then you're doing yourself absolutely no favours.

Several studies on unhealthy sedentary subjects have shown them to be fine after a few days on severely restricted diet, provided that said diet provides everything else in regards vitamins, minerals etc. The Newcastle Diet would be a prime example of this. I think that is between 600 and 800 calories a day.

magicbastarder wrote: »

i don't think the sandwich and donut were part of the diet plan, to be fair!

The sandwich and donut were not part of the plan, I had a hypoglycaemic event after the race. With my Diabetes lots of things can affect blood sugars. Pre race I took extra insulin as my sugar levels were rising, most likely due to pre race nerves, it is quite common. I probably should not have done this as coming mid race they started to dip quickly. I made it to the end but did not have the energy for the sprint and bonked shortly afterwards. Hence the Donut and Sandwich, probably overkill, donut would have been enough. I had just planned on a nice dinner when I got home.

Felexicon wrote: »

I'm not sure what your knowledge base is when it comes to nutrition but I can tell you that 1000 kcal a day for an adult is not enough and will lead to health issues if followed for too long.

If weight loss is something you are desperate to achieve I would suggest seeking professional advice so it can be achieved in a healthy and sustainable way.

If you do continue consuming calories at this rate your body will go in to "starvation mode" and you will not continue to lose weight.

Knowledge base is decent enough, I lectured in Sports Science and fitness planning but that was a few years ago and things have moved on. A Science degree and a Masters in Research in the area. I keep well read on related areas as I work in a research lab and work with several people involved in diet and exercise interventions. While they would discuss such things, I agree with you in that i would not advocate my current diet for anyone who asked in the lab, but overall, at this point in time, there is certainly nothing dangerous about it, and I am not being too strict in regards, if it isn't working in how I feel physically or mentally, I will simply slowly move away from it into a more traditional balanced diet.

I am more interested in whether there are achievable results without major negatives, and I do not plan to keep this up forever (Jesus, it's a horrible diet).

Despite my diet, i am not in terrible shape. It certainly is not a permanent change, just a personal investigation.

https://www.strava.com/activities/1730683986/analysis

I bonked at 78km, so you see the speed drop dramatically.

fat bloke

I'm off and on a myfitnesspal monitored diet now for 3 years or so. Based on my goals I'm allowed about 1750 precious calories. It's ALWAYS hard. It requires constant vigilance, constant discipline, constant denial. I routinely go to bed early just to escape the gnawing temptation of the kitchen.

And I'm pretty fcukin good at denial. I'm off drink 6 years, I went vegan pretty successfully for about 2 years, I've given up sugar completely (pretty much) since Christmas last year, having already been very strict on anything remotely resembling a treat. A bowl of muesli for me is a now-and-again guilty treat for Christ sake. Every Saturday in Laragh I take out my raw almonds as my biking buddies tuck into jam'n cream scones and lemon drizzle cake.

My problem now is that I have no dietary red flags to lose more weight. There is no low hanging fruit left. All I have in my arsenal is cutting back on my cutting back.

I can't imagine more than 2 days on 1000 calories sitting on my cake hole, not to mind cycling as well. - But, best of luck with it Cramcycle. I hope you find a manageable middle ground between the 6k and the 1k

C3PO

fat bloke wrote:

I'm off and on a myfitnesspal monitored diet now for 3 years or so. Based on my goals I'm allowed about 1750 precious calories. It's ALWAYS hard. It requires constant vigilance, constant discipline, constant denial. I routinely go to bed early just to escape the gnawing temptation of the kitchen.

And I'm pretty fcukin good at denial. I'm off drink 6 years, I went vegan pretty successfully for about 2 years, I've given up sugar completely (pretty much) since Christmas last year, having already been very strict on anything remotely resembling a treat. A bowl of muesli for me is a now-and-again guilty treat for Christ sake. Every Saturday in Laragh I take out my raw almonds as my biking buddies tuck into jam'n cream scones and lemon drizzle cake.

My problem now is that I have no dietary red flags to lose more weight. There is no low hanging fruit left. All I have in my arsenal is cutting back on my cutting back.

But surely being a regular cyclist and consuming 1750 calories a day you continue to lose weight so why should you be bothered looking for "low hanging fruit"?

fat bloke

Just like that eh?
There's no surely about it unfortunately. I have good weeks and bad weeks. My weight still fluctuates up and and down, just nothing like as dramatically as it used to. My point was it's easy to point out to a lad with a pint and bag of pub crisps how he might lose a few pounds. There are no outliers in my diet, it's just about honing an already fairly heightened discipline.

and it's hard (sooo haaaard :(:()

py

If you're tracking your weight it's good to look at the 7 day average as opposed to picking out a single day and start panicking.

C3PO

fat bloke wrote:

Just like that eh?
There's no surely about it unfortunately. I have good weeks and bad weeks. My weight still fluctuates up and and down, just nothing like as dramatically as it used to. My point was it's easy to point out to a lad with a pint and bag of pub crisps how he might lose a few pounds. There are no outliers in my diet, it's just about honing an already fairly heightened discipline.

and it's hard (sooo haaaard :(:()

When I started my cycling saga I was 107kgs, got as low as 79kgs and have settled at about 84kgs but I eat well in excess of 2500 calories a day.
I've also almost completely cut out sugar, bread and sweets but do allow myself dark chocolate and plain biscuits (think Marietta). Couldnt imagine giving up beer!
I suppose the point I'm making is that I'm surprised that someone who controls their diet as strictly as you do and cycles regulalry would have any problem losing weight!

fat bloke

C3PO wrote: »

When I started my cycling saga I was 107kgs, got as low as 79kgs and have settled at about 84kgs but I eat well in excess of 2500 calories a day.
I've also almost completely cut out sugar, bread and sweets but do allow myself dark chocolate and plain biscuits (think Marietta). Couldnt imagine giving up beer!
I suppose the point I'm making is that I'm surprised that someone who controls their diet as strictly as you do and cycles regulalry would have any problem losing weight!

Well, there are three aspects. Actually losing weight, trying to maintain a weight and trying not to put on weight. I'm a fairly consistent 70-73 kilos. I'd love sub 70 but have yet to manage it, and over 72 the alarm bells go off. By most average Joe yardsticks low 70's is pretty darn good for 5'11.5 But I have and have always had a little bay window. I should really do gym work but... <sigh> you can't do everything y'know, you really can't

It's really the constant vigilance that wears you down sometimes. Visits to the mother in law are worse than a non drinkers night out at the boozer. Ah go on, go on, go on, you'll have a little slice of apple pie, will you try one of my fresh scones, I've strawberry jam made as well if you don't like the marmalade, I've ice cream in the freezer, or would you prefer custard, bring in the box of biscuits sure.
It's diminishing returns the leaner you go, and if I let the veil slip I'm a pot of ham and half a sliced pan away from disaster. :rolleyes:

mathie

CramCycle before this diet would you say that you were fat adapted?
Did you ever do fasted rides?
And for the ride above that you bonked on did you have anything before to eat?

CramCycle

py wrote: »

If you're tracking your weight it's good to look at the 7 day average as opposed to picking out a single day and start panicking.

100% If you look at snapshots, you can get panicked by too little or too much water, or a good run on the jacks will make you feel falsely superior. I'd also recommend picking a time of day to weigh and sticking to that. It won't cut out the chatter but it will reduce it somewhat.

fat bloke wrote: »

It's really the constant vigilance that wears you down sometimes. Visits to the mother in law are worse than a non drinkers night out at the boozer. Ah go on, go on, go on, you'll have a little slice of apple pie, will you try one of my fresh scones, I've strawberry jam made as well if you don't like the marmalade, I've ice cream in the freezer, or would you prefer custard, bring in the box of biscuits sure.
It's diminishing returns the leaner you go, and if I let the veil slip I'm a pot of ham and half a sliced pan away from disaster. :rolleyes:

Mother in laws are the worst to deal with in regards food intake, you'd think with the Diabetes she'd respect my NO but not a chance, ah go on, you'll fade away, everyone else is having one.

mathie wrote: »

CramCycle before this diet would you say that you were fat adapted?

I am skeptical over the fat adapted term. I think it relies on the person, genetics and a range of other things that fat adapted really means nothing, it really means you've left your body no choice. As a Diabetic I could force myself to be fat adapted by simply letting my blood sugars run high, horrendously bad for me but there are those who do it, its called Diabulemia I think.

Did you ever do fasted rides?

All the time, in fact I would rarely eat on purpose for a ride, my morning commutes are on empty anyway. I only go out for a ride on the weekend for racing nowadays, so it really depends on my blood sugars 30 minutes before. If they are low, I would eat a Chicken fillet roll, a pack or two of crisps, maybe a bar. if they are high, just a minor correction on the insulin and hope I don't have a hypo later.

And for the ride above that you bonked on did you have anything before to eat?

I had a shake near the start but I didn't finish it. The bonking was due to not getting the insulin balance right. A little less insulin and I would have been fine. Too much insulin, and everything starts taking up the glucose (including fat cells), too little and nothing takes up enough (you get tired and cranky), just the right amount and everything gets what they need out of you.

fat bloke

CramCycle wrote: »

or a good run on the jacks will make you feel falsely superior.

Macy0161

Weigh in same time, same day once a week is about the best you can do really.

While I fall into the trap of weighing myself more often, it's the Friday one I pay most attention too.

magicbastarder

will be interested to see if or how my weight changes over the coming months - my wife has kinda fallen into vegetarianism; she realised a few weeks ago that she'd gone 5 or 6 days without chicken or red meat, and didn't want to break that.
she's always done far more of the cooking than i have, which i'm not proud of, but is a damn excellent cook, so my diet has fallen in meat intake noticeably too.

fat bloke

Veggie can be fantastic but it's far from a weight loss dead cert. Especially if your meat eating has been lean protein. Gourmet veggie means yummy (ie calorific) oils and cream and butter and cheese.

On the plus side. The likes of the asian supermarket next to cyclesuperstore has big blocks of fresh tofu. Only a couple of euro for a kg of it. Mighty stuff.

Autochange

Stop eating ****

magicbastarder

fat bloke wrote: »

Veggie can be fantastic but it's far from a weight loss dead cert.

well, tonight's dinner for me was a lean stir fry, using up the chicken in the freezer. lovely and salty and chilli-y.
i needed the salt based on the amount i lost yesterday through sweat, i bet. that was probably the most sweltery commute home i think i can remember.

ford2600

The fear mongering over a man restricting himself for a few days was quite something. The body is very well equipped for famine and bounty.

I've never needed to lose weight or gave it a thought but I have done lots of really long rides on very little food, lots of 24hr fasts and a few longer. I even found this from nearly 3 years ago
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=97079609&postcount=8176

Probably consumed less than 1000cals in total for day when I got off bike with 320km travelled solo and had a 48hr fast earlier in week.
Wouldn't have been thrown on couch the day after either but the fridge might have taken a hammering


Fasting and restriction can give a person the freedom to free themselves from the need to always having to top up and getting in energy before any kind of activity.

@fat bloke are you not driven to distraction? Eat clean but well, lift something heavy fairly regularly and you might be a better stronger cyclist 1kg or 2 heavier. BTW don't mix imperial and metric again it makes my head hurt...

CramCycle

Sub 85kg after a week, no negative issues so far. The cravings have subsided quite a bit, although not completely. Away for a week now so see how good my will power is.

fat bloke

ford2600 wrote: »

@fat bloke are you not driven to distraction? Eat clean but well, lift something heavy fairly regularly and you might be a better stronger cyclist 1kg or 2 heavier. BTW don't mix imperial and metric again it makes my head hurt...

Ah sure like anything else, as any married man at the beach knows, distractions come and go, you just have to walk the line.
My diet is above and beyond reproach. I know a bit of weights work would be good, as would a modicum of stretching but as I said, a man can't do everything. While I do enjoy weights, one thing I find about them is they're a b@stard for the appetite.

py

CramCycle wrote: »

My biggest issue at the minute is tracking weight changes as I am losing lots of fluids so it is hard to tell but over tiem it should become clear.

Ideal weight at the start of the year was 80kg so a 10kg drop but as time has went on with changes to diet and exercise having little affect, I am aiming for 84kg by the end of the three weeks, so a kilo a week. Will report in after the race tonight. Have the Wexford 2 day in a month, so that will be the real test.

So, something that sprung to mind that you may not have considered is that your glycogen levels will be seriously depleted by the end of your 3 weeks. When you start going back to maintenance level eating these will increase and with it, the additional water that glycogen holds (perhaps holds is the incorrect term). You may need to aim for 1-2Kg under your target to allow for the glycogen bounce back.

Macy0161

Macy0161 wrote: »

Haven't listened to it yet (podcast overload with the Tour!), but the TrainerRoad Ask A Cycling Coach Podcast appears to be a fat burning special this week.

This was quite interesting actually, I'm going to give it another listen as I kept getting distracted.

I am very much of the calorie is a calorie school, and they didn't dispute that up to a point, but they did raise that as you get right down, carb type and carb timing does have an impact. So another listen and maybe a bit more research for me, although they seemed to be talking about when you're right down at very close to ideal weight, and more making the final differences to body composition rather than actual weight.

Just on the Mother in law issue raised by cram - it's actually the office I find harder. When I gave up the smokes, no one came around the office handing out a packet of fags, but when dieting you get cakes, biscuits and laterally donuts offered around....

coco0981

In my experience I would say it's 90% diet/10% exercise as regards what will cut the weight. I hit 80kg at Xmas which is heavy for me at 5ft 8. Back down to 68kg now by simple enough dietary modifications.

Reduced amount of carbs, increased veg portion size, cut out late night eating, nothing that we aren't all aware of anyway.

One thing I definitely didn't realise was how much fuller you feel for longer when you add some fat back into your diet, it's very noticeable

veganrun

What type of fat did you add back?

coco0981

veganrun wrote: »

What type of fat did you add back?

Normal stuff like cheese's and non lean meats that I would normally have tried to limit

Also started eating things like this for breakfast as a low carb option
https://www.ibreatheimhungry.com/bacon-spinach-feta-stuffed-mushrooms-low-carb-gluten-free/

Because there is a good bit of fat in it I find I'm full for ages, even moreso than with my other normal breakfast which would be porridge and almond milk

Edit: Just noticed your username so meat and cheese's are not for you I presume. I found Avocados good as well