Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

Igotadose

2 Scoops wrote: »

Hypothetical question man. These situations have been hyped up constantly and have resulted in nothing, over and over and over again. Maybe things will be different this time, then again maybe not. Trump must be a mastermind to have deceived the senate, the house, the media, all the intelligence agencies all who are seething against him and the justice department where the AG has recused himself. It's not like this happened yesterday, they've been at it day in day out for over 2 years now.

To answer your hypothetical, yes if Manafort reveals some subordinate plot that happened obviously the situation will change, I'll await with baited breath.

What a farcical argument you make. Given your rules, HRC must have lapped Trump in the genius department - how long and how much was spent on Benghazi, amounting to nothing? She must've totally controlled the house, senate, all the 'deep state,' etc. Wow. Obviously did better than Trump, he's had a bunch (what is it now, 5 underlings/direct reports/cabinet level officials) convicted of felonies in around 600 days in office, about 1 every 4 months. For legal work, that's impressive. RICO investigations take years. Mueller's moving right along here.

Oh, baited with what? Nightcrawlers? Lugworms?

Igotadose

Hard to believe, it's just a month since Cohen copped his plea and Manafort was found guilty in Virginia. Trumpworld's a whirlwind of scandals and chaos.

Nice analysis here on the solid, methodical job Mueller's team did on Manafort, they were the devil in the details as it were, combing through Manafort's shenanigans. Trump should be a lot easier, not very bright and not surrounded with particularly bright or talented people, his own offspring ffs seem borderline simpletons. https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/14/manafort-plea-mueller-probe-825753

Still, one wonders what next week will bring. More from Omarosa? Woodward? Another new book from somewhere else? Trump's still steaming ahead imposing tariff's on China and harassing allies like the EU over the ICJ. Oh, and more sanctions on NK, who've made zero progress on disarmament.

Captain Obvious

RIGOLO wrote: »

The only President to come out of this current Manafort case with egg on their face is Obama, and the Obama Administration.

Almost everyone around Trump has been shown to be corrupt or a criminal. There's plenty of evidence Trump is both. Eventually when you come to this realisation you will find yourself in a state of panic. You've spent so much time and effort supporting this person you will feel like admitting you were wrong is simply too hard, too embarrassing. I'll make you this promise. If you do eventually see him for what he is, I won't be one to say "I told you so".

looksee

I don't, really, believe that the few Trump supporters on here are in fact as much supporters as they claim to be. Maybe I just can't imagine anyone supporting this person, but I think they are devil's advocate types who are just arguing for the sake of it. They are anonymous, they can survive in this alternative reality without affecting their real life credibility.

Penn

2 Scoops wrote: »

Hypothetical question man. These situations have been hyped up constantly and have resulted in nothing, over and over and over again. Maybe things will be different this time, then again maybe not. Trump must be a mastermind to have deceived the senate, the house, the media, all the intelligence agencies all who are seething against him and the justice department where the AG has recused himself. It's not like this happened yesterday, they've been at it day in day out for over 2 years now.

To answer your hypothetical, yes if Manafort reveals some subordinate plot that happened obviously the situation will change, I'll await with baited breath.

The big difference between Manafort and "These situations have been hyped up constantly and have resulted in nothing, over and over and over again", is that none of the people who have previously flipped on Trump or are working with the Special Counsel were IN the Russia meeting at Trump Tower. Some of them knew about the meeting, but Manafort is the first to have been in the meeting, along with Kushner and Don Jr. If Manafort gives up pertinent information about what happened in that meeting, Kushner and Don Jr are directly implicated.

We'll have to see what comes from Manaforts info, but he potentially holds more explosive info directly about collusion than anyone else who has worked with the Special Counsel.

amandstu

Penn wrote: »

The big difference between Manafort and "These situations have been hyped up constantly and have resulted in nothing, over and over and over again", is that none of the people who have previously flipped on Trump or are working with the Special Counsel were IN the Russia meeting at Trump Tower. Some of them knew about the meeting, but Manafort is the first to have been in the meeting, along with Kushner and Don Jr. If Manafort gives up pertinent information about what happened in that meeting, Kushner and Don Jr are directly implicated.

We'll have to see what comes from Manaforts info, but he potentially holds more explosive info directly about collusion than anyone else who has worked with the Special Counsel.

Without any evidence of direct (sanctionable) collusion it is still very wrong that there has not been an upswelling of opinion and pressure in the ranks of those who have supported this Presidency either de facto or willingly.

That it is possible that there could be this incontravertible evidence seems still to me to be far fetched and would more represent evidence that"there is a god"... or just evidence of the amazing stupidity of these seeming lowlifes.

But I think we have ,at this stage to be prepared for the fish to wriggle off the line.

It is the upswelling I am still waiting for and think that is far more important than whatever happens to this (insert characterization) in the WH

dudara

looksee wrote: »

I don't, really, believe that the few Trump supporters on here are in fact as much supporters as they claim to be. Maybe I just can't imagine anyone supporting this person, but I think they are devil's advocate types who are just arguing for the sake of it. They are anonymous, they can survive in this alternative reality without affecting their real life credibility.

I must admit I have often wondered if they are “professional trolls”. Their style of posting often involves diverting attention away from the news story of the day, plus bombast about a Trump. It’s too much of a pattern IMO. It’s almost as if they are following a script.

Anyway, I’ve started to read the Woodward book. Only a few chapters in though. Has anyone else read it?

Captain Obvious

dudara wrote: »

I must admit I have often wondered if they are “professional trolls”. Their style of posting often involves diverting attention away from the news story of the day, plus bombast about a Trump. It’s too much of a pattern IMO. It’s almost as if they are following a script.

Anyway, I’ve started to read the Woodward book. Only a few chapters in though. Has anyone else read it?

It's more like a playbook than a script. After Hours is awash with them. I think there are some genuine supporters but more often I think it's people who believe in a particular cause and support Trump as the most likely person to deliver on that cause and to hell with anything else he does. Evangelicals and abortion being a good example. Executives and tax cuts. NRA and guns.

Hande hoche!

amandstu wrote: »

Without any evidence of direct (sanctionable) collusion it is still very wrong that there has not been an upswelling of opinion and pressure in the ranks of those who have supported this Presidency either de facto or willingly.

That it is possible that there could be this incontravertible evidence seems still to me to be far fetched and would more represent evidence that"there is a god"... or just evidence of the amazing stupidity of these seeming lowlifes.

But I think we have ,at this stage to be prepared for the fish to wriggle off the line.

It is the upswelling I am still waiting for and think that is far more important than whatever happens to this (insert characterization) in the WH

Wouldn't be surprised if it headed in that direction. From what I recall of reports of the meeting, Manafort's role included falling asleep during the meeting.


Still imagine we will have more tapes and a few more tell all books before the year is out. Will be curious as to whether the tempo stays the same or ramps up ahead of Midterms.

elli21

Genuine question


Do they really see themselves as Chrisrtians? I mean the GOP?

Water John

Mueller wil continue to reel in those around Trump, getting closer to him all the time. Kushner and Don Jnr look high on the list now. He will keep pulling the legs from under Trump until he is left exposed.

amandstu

Water John wrote: »

Mueller wil continue to reel in those around Trump, getting closer to him all the time. Kushner and Don Jnr look high on the list now. He will keep pulling the legs from under Trump until he is left exposed.

From an infotainment point of view that is a great prospect ,but will the damage already done be mendable or can we "thank" Trump et al for showing up the sad state of the American body politic ?

Btw I would hold the lack of bipartisanship over the years equally responsible as pimple man Trump.

Water John

Remember Mueller's task and focus is on possible Russian collusion. That may lead in many directions. Trump is only one of them. Many others and organisations, like GOP, may also be at risk, from the probe.

Leroy42

It doesn't matter whether Manafort fell asleep at the meeting. The key thing, as pointed out previously, is that Manafort knows the pre meeting conversations, the strategy, the reason why is and Kushner were there.

What did Don Jr tell them about the purpose of the meeting? Was Trump excluded on purpose, not told cause Don Jr felt he could handle it, or was he involved.

Was there any correspondence after the meeting within Team Trump or with the Russians?

Don Jr and Kushner better have been telling the truth because now Mueller has Manafort, Cohen and Flynn all talking.

Can you imagine the panic they are in at the moment. And Trump probably assured them that Manafort would never flip.

So now your Jared, faced with the possibility of Mueller coming after you. What to you do? Take a deal early to get the best offer or stick it out like Manafort and lose everything and still end up cooperating.

Of course Trump could nail all this pretty easyily by just testifying under oath to Mueller and clear up all the misunderstandings. So why is he refusing to do that? Why is he putting his staff, his friends, his family through all this?

But one thing is abundantly clear at this stage. When Mueller locks on you are done for. Cohen, Manafort, both highly experienced men felt they could get around Mueller and both have been proved totally wrong. It would be a very brave person to attempt to beat Mueller at this stage. Whilst the risk/reward is probably still worth it for Trump himself, not sure that the likes of Hope Hicks, KAC, Kushner etc will see it that way.

amandstu

Leroy42 wrote: »

Of course Trump could nail all this pretty easyily by just testifying under oath to Mueller and clear up all the misunderstandings. So why is he refusing to do that? Why is he putting his staff, his friends, his family through all this?

Interesting point. Wonder what he tells them.

Leroy42

He tell them he has them covered, that he will look after them. That was the line they were running with Manafort.

What Mueller has shown, is regardless of whether Trump himself ever gets snared, with his added protection of the GOP and likely weighted SCOTUS, that Trump is powerless to protect others and Trump has shown with the likes of Cohen that he is very willing to throw them under the bus to protect himself.

pixelburp

26000 Elephants wrote: »

Back in the saddle and flogging the Puerto Rican Death Toll like they dont matter.

Probably doesn't need saying, but that figure was the official total calculated by the PR government; the BBC have an article on how the George Washington University (those who wrote the report) came to the final figure:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-45521414

Essentially it boiled down to interviewing islanders, doctors, funeral directors et al and establishing whether the percentages of deaths were greater than historical norms, and overcoming the apparently lax bureaucracy on the island in general.

The article ends on a note that echoes Trump's tasteless conspiracy prattle; though there's a long stretch between a scientist hedging their bets (which any good scientist will always do), and the US President dismissing the deaths of US citizens as a Democrat conspiracy.

With any natural disaster there are always going to be knock-on effects, and subsequent deaths whose cause was tangential to the event itself: floodwater might increase the likelihood of lethal waterborne diseases for instance as sewerage etc. escapes into the general water table, but only a pedant would argue those deaths not explicitly caused by the disaster as it happened.

So if you wanted to play Devil's Advocate here: the most charitable thing you could say about Trump was he demonstrated a stunning ignorance of statistics, and how in any natural disaster there are stages of calamity and danger beyond the immediacy of the event - rather than any callous inhumanity for the sake of political points scoring.

Either way however, he once again demonstrates a critical lack of judgement not befitting someone in high office. Disaster Events require a cool head, critical decision making and an ability to set aside ego or pettiness for the sake of those in need. Donald Trump has demonstrated none of those qualities.

everlast75

Water John wrote: »

Mueller wil continue to reel in those around Trump, getting closer to him all the time. Kushner and Don Jnr look high on the list now. He will keep pulling the legs from under Trump until he is left exposed.

Stone is next I think. Just my best guess.

dr.fuzzenstein

elli21 wrote: »

Genuine question


Do they really see themselves as Chrisrtians? I mean the GOP?

It's an image they're projecting, family, church, Christian values, guns, low taxes and minimal regulations.
The amount of philandering and criminal convictions would point towards this mostly being a hypocritical smokescreen to attract people who take everything written in the Bible and everything stated by the GOP at 100% face value without critical thought.
I'm looking for a good word I can use on a serious forum to describe people who exploit the gullible for their own gains under false pretences.
The rest would be religious fundamentalist nutjobs.

Rhineshark

2 Scoops wrote: »

Loved it, up there with Eichenwald's interview for me. Avenatti is too used to being on friendly networks, he was legit seething.

Eh, it was the equivalent of having someone behind him with two fingers up behind his head. Childish and avoiding saying anything to his face. "Oh, we won't SAY it thus time as a gesture of goodwill (we're just cowards who will put it on a chyron so he can't see it, teehee!")

Like, how petty is Carlson? You actually admire his being *that* lily-livered?

Dohnjoe

US admiral who led Bin Laden raid resigns from Trump administration (the advisory board)
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/09/four-star-admiral-led-bin-laden-raid-quits-pentagon-post-bashing-trump/

“I would consider it an honor if you would revoke my security clearance as well, so I can add my name to the list of men and women who have spoken up against your presidency,” he wrote.

RIGOLO

602 days, 21 hours , 7 mins and 8 secs and counting, days in which Donald Trump has been  President of the United States. 
Its over folks, Mullers probe is a busted flush, he shook the tree and he caught a few apples mainly Manafort and Cohen and those cases are pretty much wrapped up. 

Mueller thought he would scare the Trump administration into some gaff on whihc he could hang an impeachment but nada, nothing.  
And if there was any evidence they could lay at Trumps door they would already be doing it, instead all they got is a few plea bargains mostly for offences comitted prior to 2015. A junior legal team and sixth amendment rights would nullify any case Mueller would even attempt to bring against Trump. Thats why Mueller aint pulled the trigger yet, he knows he has nothing. All he can do is drag up old dirt, and let the media and the left anti-Trump posters feed their Trump derangment syndrome . 

Democrats are up the creek without a paddle, instead of coming up with a policy, (off the top of your heads anyone know what the Democrats message for the mid-terms and 2020 is... correct they havent one, the msg was get Trump out) , all they did was get back into bed with the main stream media and take wild pop shots and hope they hit something. 
Meanwhile the Trump adminstration has achieved progress on many fronts and taken ownership of many issues that Obama left either unresolved or in a mess. 
Its working out fine, play the long game, the longer Trump administration is in office, the longer Democrats and the left are digging themselves a hole.

Progressive left candidates are not making the breakthrough in the DNC as expected, all they are doing is confusing the American electorate. 

Meanwhile the economy is booming and Im betting when the voters go to the polls in the mid-terms , no matter what they said on a poll, or say to their friends or express publicly , they will think about their pay checks, their 401ks and the pay checks of the other members in their families and they will tick a GOP box. 
602 days, 21 hours , 21 mins and 15 secs and counting, days in which Donald Trump has been President of the United States.......

Igotadose

RIGOLO wrote: »

602 days, 21 hours , 7 mins and 8 secs and counting, days in which Donald Trump has been  President of the United States. 
Its over folks, Mullers probe is a busted flush, he shook the tree and he caught a few apples mainly Manafort and Cohen and those cases are pretty much wrapped up. 

Whistling past the graveyard comes to mind. Busted flush? Something's going to get flushed for sure.

smurgen

RIGOLO wrote: »

602 days, 21 hours , 7 mins and 8 secs and counting, days in which Donald Trump has been  President of the United States. 
Its over folks, Mullers probe is a busted flush, he shook the tree and he caught a few apples mainly Manafort and Cohen and those cases are pretty much wrapped up. 

Mueller thought he would scare the Trump administration into some gaff on whihc he could hang an impeachment but nada, nothing.  
And if there was any evidence they could lay at Trumps door they would already be doing it, instead all they got is a few plea bargains mostly for offences comitted prior to 2015. A junior legal team and sixth amendment rights would nullify any case Mueller would even attempt to bring against Trump. Thats why Mueller aint pulled the trigger yet, he knows he has nothing. All he can do is drag up old dirt, and let the media and the left anti-Trump posters feed their Trump derangment syndrome . 

Democrats are up the creek without a paddle, instead of coming up with a policy, (off the top of your heads anyone know what the Democrats message for the mid-terms and 2020 is... correct they havent one, the msg was get Trump out) , all they did was get back into bed with the main stream media and take wild pop shots and hope they hit something. 
Meanwhile the Trump adminstration has achieved progress on many fronts and taken ownership of many issues that Obama left either unresolved or in a mess. 
Its working out fine, play the long game, the longer Trump administration is in office, the longer Democrats and the left are digging themselves a hole.

Progressive left candidates are not making the breakthrough in the DNC as expected, all they are doing is confusing the American electorate. 

Meanwhile the economy is booming and Im betting when the voters go to the polls in the mid-terms , no matter what they said on a poll, or say to their friends or express publicly , they will think about their pay checks, their 401ks and the pay checks of the other members in their families and they will tick a GOP box. 
602 days, 21 hours , 21 mins and 15 secs and counting, days in which Donald Trump has been President of the United States.......

You sound like Chemical Ali

UsedToWait

RIGOLO wrote: »

602 days, 21 hours , 7 mins and 8 secs and counting, days in which Donald Trump has been President of the United States.
Its over folks, Mullers probe is a busted flus

Username checks out: ça me fait bien Rigoler

Thargor

looksee wrote: »

I don't, really, believe that the few Trump supporters on here are in fact as much supporters as they claim to be. Maybe I just can't imagine anyone supporting this person, but I think they are devil's advocate types who are just arguing for the sake of it. They are anonymous, they can survive in this alternative reality without affecting their real life credibility.

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It's more like a playbook than a script. After Hours is awash with them. I think there are some genuine supporters but more often I think it's people who believe in a particular cause and support Trump as the most likely person to deliver on that cause and to hell with anything else he does. Evangelicals and abortion being a good example. Executives and tax cuts. NRA and guns.

There was a long while where Rigolo was incapable of posting without 20 broken pieces of BB code in each post, changing the size of a sentence 5 times etc, weird colour changes and that kind of thing, it was clear he was copying and pasting his talking points from some weird piece of software, then other trolls came in doing the exact same things, its definitely some kind of operation, even if that operation is just one individual trolling for the craic or something bigger.

dr.fuzzenstein

smurgen wrote: »

You sound like Chemical Ali

It's more Comical Ali.
Another phrase that springs to mind is "Deutsche Truppen marschieren siegreich auf allen Fronten!", which is a synonym for German propaganda in 1944, everything is well, don't ask, victory is near.

RIGOLO

Thargor wrote: »

looksee wrote: »

I don't, really, believe that the few Trump supporters on here are in fact as much supporters as they claim to be. Maybe I just can't imagine anyone supporting this person, but I think they are devil's advocate types who are just arguing for the sake of it. They are anonymous, they can survive in this alternative reality without affecting their real life credibility.

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It's more like a playbook than a script. After Hours is awash with them. I think there are some genuine supporters but more often I think it's people who believe in a particular cause and support Trump as the most likely person to deliver on that cause and to hell with anything else he does. Evangelicals and abortion being a good example. Executives and tax cuts. NRA and guns.

There was a long while where Rigolo was incapable of posting without 20 broken pieces of BB code in each post, changing the size of a sentence 5 times etc, weird colour changes and that kind of thing, it was clear he was copying and pasting his talking points from some weird piece of software, then other trolls came in doing the exact same things, its definitely some kind of operation, even if that operation is just one individual trolling for the craic or something bigger.

It doesnt look like you had a point to make there, other than rolling out the old 'bot' accusation. 
Thats been done, before , many times. 
If it floats your boat then can I suggest next time you just Private Message me with 'your a bot barb' , rather than taking up space on the Politics thread. 
And if thats still doesnt stop the 'bot accusations , and cut and paste jibes' then I will let you know that they do bring a smile to my face. I find those accusations very amusing. So perhaps thats enough reason for you to desist. Again in everyones interest Id prefer the thread werent taken up with those wasteful posts.

Call me Al

RIGOLO wrote: »

602 days, 21 hours , 7 mins and 8 secs and counting, days in which Donald Trump has been  President of the United States. 
Its over folks, Mullers probe is a busted flush, he shook the tree and he caught a few apples mainly Manafort and Cohen and those cases are pretty much wrapped up. 

Mueller thought he would scare the Trump administration into some gaff on whihc he could hang an impeachment but nada, nothing.  
And if there was any evidence they could lay at Trumps door they would already be doing it, instead all they got is a few plea bargains mostly for offences comitted prior to 2015. A junior legal team and sixth amendment rights would nullify any case Mueller would even attempt to bring against Trump. Thats why Mueller aint pulled the trigger yet, he knows he has nothing. All he can do is drag up old dirt, and let the media and the left anti-Trump posters feed their Trump derangment syndrome . 

Democrats are up the creek without a paddle, instead of coming up with a policy, (off the top of your heads anyone know what the Democrats message for the mid-terms and 2020 is... correct they havent one, the msg was get Trump out) , all they did was get back into bed with the main stream media and take wild pop shots and hope they hit something. 
Meanwhile the Trump adminstration has achieved progress on many fronts and taken ownership of many issues that Obama left either unresolved or in a mess. 
Its working out fine, play the long game, the longer Trump administration is in office, the longer Democrats and the left are digging themselves a hole.

....

Wow.. please make sure to let the Republican Mueller in on all of this.
He's obviously in need of an astute fair and balanced individual such as yourself to enlighten him on the REAL STORY and AGENDA.
He's wasted all this time. If he'd only known.
Meanwhile The Independent, amongst others, reports:

" Donald Trump's former campaign chairman Paul Manafort will cooperate with prosecutors from special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation after pleading guilty to two charges to avoid a second criminal trial.

The charges include conspiracy against the United States and conspiracy to obstruct justice.

As part of a plea deal, the rest of the charges in the Washington DC case, as well as the deadlocked charges from a previous case in Virginia will be dropped at the time of sentencing ot upon "completion of cooperation" prosecutors have said. "

Will we back to the "collusion is not a crime" theme any time soon?

Leroy42

Rigolo, the reason people think you are a bot is that you never actually engage 8n any debate. The only posts you ever reply to relate to you and your posting style, never about the actual talking points or the questions asked.

Posters like you love to claim threads such as this as biased echo chambers, yet never actually provide anything beyond slogans and PR soundbites.

You seem, for example, to be totally unconcerned that Trump surrounded himself with people that were working as foreign agents. Flynn would still be NSA only for the FBI. Who knows what Manafort was willing to sell to Russia for a few backhanders.

It took Mueller, who Trump continually denigrates, to help the US.

And let us not ever, ever forget that when asked if he trust the hard-working men and women of the US security services or Russia he chose Russia.

The man you stand fully behind, stabbed all those people in the back in front of the whole world.