Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

2 Scoops

Leroy42 wrote: »

Grow up? I am not the one that has made a decision based on no information?

Please point to the post in which I said she's lying. The information she has released re witnesses has damaged her credibility. You're talking gibberish.

Leroy42

BabyCheeses wrote: »

But lock her up was completely different of course.

I have already asked that question but 2scoops is too busy deflecting to have time to actually answer.

Leroy42

2 Scoops wrote: »

Please point to the post in which I said she's lying. The information she has released re witnesses has damaged her credibility. You're talking gibberish.

2 Scoops wrote: »

Latest supposed witness with knowledge of the accusation has denied knowing anything about it. That's strike four.

What did you mean by this? AS it comes across that you are claiming that the credibility of her position is open to question.

So she is not lying, you simply don't believe a word of it.

2 Scoops

Christy42 wrote: »

I don't expect them to prove a negative. However since we have yet to have the investigation yet a lack of proof is hardly surprising. Hence not a strike. Have the investigation and we can talk.

Of course we won't get an investigation. What we will get is a hearing by people who have already stated that Kavanagh will end up on the SCOTUS before hearing her out. Does that sound like a fair hearing to you?

If what she provides at the hearing is credible, as in a specific timeline and credible witnesses then there should be an investigation. You can't expect an investigation with no information on something that might have happened 30 years ago to be the default response to every accusation.

2 Scoops

Leroy42 wrote: »

What did you mean by this? AS it comes across that you are claiming that the credibility of her position is open to question.

Yes her credibility is certainly open to question when her lifelong friend who she cited as a witness and alleged participant at the party denies ever being at a party with the accused.

Captain Obvious

2 Scoops wrote: »

Yes her credibility is certainly open to question when her lifelong friend who she cited as a witness and alleged participant at the party denies ever being at a party with the accused.

Well that's not exactly true is it. She didn't say she was never at a party with him. She said she doesn't know Kavanaugh and doesn't remember being at a party with him. Is it really that surprising that she doesn't remember being at a party with someone who she did not know at the time?

Eric Cartman

Igotadose wrote: »

To be clear, do you believe Professor Ford is lying? Because *every* person in the video you linked tosays they believe her. That's all they're saying. Not one uses the word 'guilty,' though I suppose you can read their minds and know what they assume.

But, just to confirm, you believe she's lying? Because that's the crux of what'll be discussed at the Senate hearing next week - whether Kavanaugh assaulted her or not.

about 15 seconds into the clip "Kavanaugh says its a mistake, wasn't him" and the reply starts with "well many predators"

already calling him a predator.

The great thing about the 'innocent until proven guilty' legal system is, until there is credible hard evidence from a court and not a bunch of tv reporters and democrats shooting their mouths off well then she is either lying or mistaken and he is innocent.

Leroy42

2 Scoops wrote: »

Yes her credibility is certainly open to question when her lifelong friend who she cited as a witness and alleged participant at the party denies ever being at a party with the accused.

And the 4 strikes comment?

Come on,don't try to treat people like idiots. You are clearly of the view that this is not credible and shouldn't be something that holds up the appointment. You have used selective evidence to get to that point (I mean you dismiss what she says but accept anything that works against her!) and are happy to go ahead with an appointment that could be potentially carry baggage with it.

And for what? Because its you party, your POTUS and you want to win. To hell with whether it is right or not. There is no real argument, bar the above, to not pause this and carry out an full review/investigation.

But that doesn't suit.

As I said, I hope you never know anyone that is put into a similar position and faced with the power of the GOP and Trump to railroad them.

And you still have not answered why suddenly you think that only credible and verifiable accusations should be considered when Trump and the GOP spent 5+ years making any claim they could think of about HC.

2 Scoops

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Well that's not exactly true is it. She didn't say she was never at a party with him. She said she doesn't know Kavanaugh and doesn't remember being at a party with him. Is it really that surprising that she doesn't remember being at a party with someone who she did not know at the time?

Since they're lifelong friends I think it's open to question yes. I've said my piece, let the shítstorm that's bound to happen on Thursday speak for itself. Maybe the truth will come out one way or the other, although I find that doubtful.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/22/politics/kavanaugh-ford-accuser-nomination/index.html

"Simply put, Ms. Keyser does not know Mr. Kavanaugh and she has no recollection of ever being at a party or gathering where he was present, with, or without, Dr. Ford,"

The lawyer acknowledged to CNN that Keyser is a lifelong friend of Ford's.

everlast75

2scoops.

What has Kav to lose by agreeing to the FBI to carry out an investigation? I know its the WH call but his input would sway it.

You may have answered this but I may have missed it.

Regardless of whether you or I believe her, I can see no legitimate reason to deny her what is established as fair procedure.

Frankly, I think she should make a criminal complaint and allow her local DA investigate it and Congress bedamned.

And finally, I've also said I don't "believe her" or him, but her claim and his behavioural response makes her allegation worthy of investigation

2 Scoops

Leroy42 wrote: »

But that doesn't suit.

If you don't want credibility issues then don't rely on witnesses who can't collaborate your story, it really is that simple.

WinnyThePoo

Leroy42 wrote: »

And the 4 strikes comment?

Come on,don't try to treat people like idiots. You are clearly of the view that this is not credible and shouldn't be something that holds up the appointment. You have used selective evidence to get to that point (I mean you dismiss what she says but accept anything that works against her!) and are happy to go ahead with an appointment that could be potentially carry baggage with it.

And for what? Because its you party, your POTUS and you want to win. To hell with whether it is right or not. There is no real argument, bar the above, to not pause this and carry out an full review/investigation.

But that doesn't suit.

As I said, I hope you never know anyone that is put into a similar position and faced with the power of the GOP and Trump to railroad them.

And you still have not answered why suddenly you think that only credible and verifiable accusations should be considered when Trump and the GOP spent 5+ years making any claim they could think of about HC.

You've got him in a nutshell.

Captain Obvious

2 Scoops wrote: »

If you don't want credibility issues then don't rely on witnesses who can't collaborate your story, it really is that simple.

But she isn't relying on anyone. She's simply stating who she remembers being there.

Igotadose

2 Scoops wrote: »

If you don't want credibility issues then don't rely on witnesses who can't collaborate your story, it really is that simple.

Sorry, have I missed the trial? Witnesses/corroboration/testimony... none of that's happened yet. So, all we have now, is supposition and hearsay filtered through the media on all sides.

Let's have the testimony under oath, with penalties. An FBI investigation might serve to help with the testimony.

Dohnjoe

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The great thing about the 'innocent until proven guilty' legal system is, until there is credible hard evidence from a court and not a bunch of tv reporters and democrats shooting their mouths off well then she is either lying or mistaken and he is innocent.

"Lock her up! Lock her up!"

How do you feel about Trumps contempt for the legal system? or are your principles selective on the matter

Captain Obvious

Dohnjoe wrote: »

"Lock her up! Lock her up!"

How do you feel about Trumps contempt for the legal system? or are your principles selective on the matter

The poster was pretty clear. It has to be "Democrats" shouting their mouths off. If he had meant it to apply to both sides he would have said "politicians".

salmocab

Captain Obvious wrote: »

The poster was pretty clear. It has to be "Democrats" shouting their mouths off. If he had meant it to apply to both sides he would have said "politicians".

Sadly that’s American politics in a nut shell, my side right your side wrong and no middle ground.

Eric Cartman

Dohnjoe wrote: »

"Lock her up! Lock her up!"

How do you feel about Trumps contempt for the legal system? or are your principles selective on the matter

I have made jokes about that in the past, and I do believe that there are things in the Clinton camp that need investigating , that said yet again she is currently innocent of any of these things and I think even Donny has accepted that as it hasn't come up in a while . During the 2016 election there was accusations coming from both sides about the other , thats the magic of the dumpster fire that is the US electoral process, but since the election there has been no let up whatsoever from the democrat side.

If you think lock her up / Hillary for prison / pizzagate etc.. is all baseless / unproven ( a view that everyone is entitled to hold as there is no conviction) then the Kavanaugh accusations, the Donald trump sexual assault allegations and all the other unproven accusations have to go in the same camp.

I would welcome an investigation into this to get a definitive answer but the timing seems questionable and the current rhetoric is to find sexual assault allegations against every man Donald even smiles at , some perhaps true, some almost certainly false , the idea of every republican being a sexual predator is very much turning into boy who cried wolf at this point.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I have made jokes about that in the past, and I do believe that there are things in the Clinton camp that need investigating , that said yet again she is currently innocent of any of these things and I think even Donny has accepted that as it hasn't come up in a while . During the 2016 election there was accusations coming from both sides about the other , thats the magic of the dumpster fire that is the US electoral process, but since the election there has been no let up whatsoever from the democrat side.

If you think lock her up / Hillary for prison / pizzagate etc.. is all baseless / unproven ( a view that everyone is entitled to hold as there is no conviction) then the Kavanaugh accusations, the Donald trump sexual assault allegations and all the other unproven accusations have to go in the same camp.

I would welcome an investigation into this to get a definitive answer but the timing seems questionable and the current rhetoric is to find sexual assault allegations against every man Donald even smiles at , some perhaps true, some almost certainly false , the idea of every republican being a sexual predator is very much turning into boy who cried wolf at this point.

You're just gonna throw Pizzagate out there yeah?

Eric Cartman

Deleted User wrote: »

You're just gonna throw Pizzagate out there yeah?

its a good example of a baseless claim that has been made , theres a lot of very long bits of string needed to join that one together.

Dohnjoe

Eric Cartman wrote: »

pizzagate

That's a satanist paedophile-ring conspiracy theory centering around secret symbols and a pizza parlour, made up on 4chan. It's utter nonsense. Yet you bring it up like it's a "thing".

It's the neverending lack of context or perspective.

Eric Cartman

Dohnjoe wrote: »

That's a satanist paedophile-ring conspiracy theory centering around secret symbols and a pizza parlour, made up on 4chan. It's utter nonsense. Yet you bring it up like it's a "thing".

It's the neverending lack of context or perspective.

I brought it up as an example of a baseless claim that has been thrown around.

Captain Obvious

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I have made jokes about that in the past, and I do believe that there are things in the Clinton camp that need investigating , that said yet again she is currently innocent of any of these things and I think even Donny has accepted that as it hasn't come up in a while .

Didn't Ted Cruz bring her up in his debate yesterday?

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I brought it up as an example of a baseless claim that has been thrown around.

You put it on the same level as the accusations against Trump and Kavanaugh, which are not baseless.

Eric Cartman

Captain Obvious wrote: »

You put it on the same level as the accusations against Trump and Kavanaugh, which are not baseless.

The only thing they have on Kavanaugh is that he was at the same high school party as the girl , nothing more. Even witnesses she named said it didn't happen. Until theres an investigation and it concludes anything its on the same level as pizzagate.

There has been quite a lot of baseless accusations against trump, you might not like him but just as there was against Hillary , there is against trump, every dog on the street knows that.

Igotadose

Saudi's told Trump to p**s off about oil production: https://thehill.com/policy/international/407996-opec-dismisses-trump-demand-for-higher-oil-production

Seems that US gas prices are up since Trump was sworn in, looks to be about $3.60/US gallon if my conversion from Imperial to US is correct. Has held this price since June.

Who knows maybe if he antagonizes Saudi Arabia even more, the price'll go higher still...

Dohnjoe

Eric Cartman wrote: »

There has been quite a lot of baseless accusations against trump, you might not like him but just as there was against Hillary , there is against trump, every dog on the street knows that.

Trump is under investigation for collusion with Russia and god knows what else they will dig up in the process. Affairs. A number of his associates and members of staff have been charged/are still under investigation. He's made countless racist, sexist, misogynistic, abrasive, childish, you name it comments - many on their own could have sunk a normal politician. Lies and falsehoods on an almost daily basis. Books, insiders, staff members all painting a similar picture of the chaos in the WH.

Yet his supporters try to paint it as "just like that time H Clinton was around"

No, no it's not. It's a false equivalence, not to mention a bizarre one.

Captain Obvious

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The only thing they have on Kavanaugh is that he was at the same high school party as the girl , nothing more.

No, they have a victim. What they lack is corroborating evidence.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Even witnesses she named said it didn't happen.

They did not.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Until theres an investigation and it concludes anything its on the same level as pizzagate.

No, pizzagate was based on nothing, the accusation against Kavanaugh is based on a victims accusation.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

There has been quite a lot of baseless accusations against trump, you might not like him but just as there was against Hillary , there is against trump, every dog on the street knows that.

What accusations are you referring to? i think you are mixing up "baseless" with "uncorroborated".

Eric Cartman

Captain Obvious wrote: »

No, they have a victim. What they lack is corroborating evidence.






They did not.






No, pizzagate was based on nothing, the accusation against Kavanaugh is based on a victims accusation.





What accusations are you referring to? i think you are mixing up "baseless" with "uncorroborated".

She's not a victim if it didn't happen though.... which is still as strong a possibility as it having happened.

pizzagate was based on a desire to smear the Democratic Party, John podesta and Hillary Clinton , it was invented as the new thing to do to somebody in politics is to try and present them as a sex offender.

Similarly beyond Kavanaugh almost anyone appointed by trump or associated with him or even the man himself has had uncorroborated accusations of sexual assault that are always full of blurry details.

At this point its almost like clockwork to accept that anyone Donald likes is going to be accused, its always going to be an accusation going back a long time and have no witnesses.

the whole idea is to throw enough sh*t at the wall and hope some of it sticks.

Water John

You are totally incorrect. The odds of it being true and untrue are not equal. A small single digit percentage figure sits on one side, versus a 90+ percentage on the other side.
The odds are its true. This is drawn from a number of studies that give us those figures.

Eric Cartman

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Trump is under investigation for collusion with Russia and god knows what else they will dig up in the process. Affairs. A number of his associates and members of staff have been charged/are still under investigation. He's made countless racist, sexist, misogynistic, abrasive, childish, you name it comments - many on their own could have sunk a normal politician. Lies and falsehoods on an almost daily basis. Books, insiders, staff members all painting a similar picture of the chaos in the WH.

Yet his supporters try to paint it as "just like that time H Clinton was around"

No, no it's not. It's a false equivalence, not to mention a bizarre one.

his comments are only racist if you define anything negative said about somebody of another race as 'racist'
his comments are only sexist or misogynistic if you take any insult where the recipient is a woman as 'sexist'

he's a controversial figure and perhaps the investigation bares fruit, but even with your "god knows what else they'll find" comment, you already think he's guilty.

Your posts are a full on example of Trump Derangement Syndrome in effect, you don't like the guy so you're just willing to believe that everything he says is offensive , everything he does is criminal and everyone he likes is a criminal.