Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

everlast75

I can't figure out whether there is kompromat on Graham, or was he just promised the AG job when he went golfing with Trump a year ago..

Penn

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

There should be a lot of victims and perpetrators out there if we are tallying up the Avenatti accusation. That is the one of any that could possibly have a conclusion - assuming you haven't read the statement and thought that it's nonsensical. Someone could come out of the woodwork and confirm the 'spiked punch' part of it at least.

In terms of Fords accusation and the second accusation I don't see there being a possible conclusion even after an FBI investigation so they'll be left up in the air for eternity. Then I think there was another completely anonymous one which I shudder to think some people give credence to until there is some substance to it.

Even I am swayed by more than one accusation even if it is spurious but if we are counting them all then we all should expect some damning information very very soon.

I think in terms of the FBI investigation, you're right in that no conclusion would have been reached, but I feel their recommendations and a summary of their findings after such an investigation would have at least clarified several elements of conflicting testimonies as well as established sufficient profiles on the characters of those involved. Their recommendations, while likely not conclusive in any way, would have highlighted important information for the senators on which to base their decisions on (eg. if the FBI proved that the party did happen even though Kavanaugh said it didn't, it wouldn't prove the assault happened, but would prove an untrue statement by Kavanaugh).

There's no good reason why an FBI investigation shouldn't be undertaken.

Rjd2

everlast75 wrote: »

I can't figure out whether there is kompromat on Graham, or was he just promised the AG job when he went golfing with Trump a year ago..

from all accounts, he has been moaning for close to last 20 years about how partisan they have become. Obviously he went to bat for Kav and Trump but its not as insincere as some might suggest.

everlast75

Penn wrote: »

I think in terms of the FBI investigation, you're right in that no conclusion would have been reached, but I feel their recommendations and a summary of their findings after such an investigation would have at least clarified several elements of conflicting testimonies as well as established sufficient profiles on the characters of those involved. Their recommendations, while likely not conclusive in any way, would have highlighted important information for the senators on which to base their decisions on (eg. if the FBI proved that the party did happen even though Kavanaugh said it didn't, it wouldn't prove the assault happened, but would prove an untrue statement by Kavanaugh).

There's no good reason why an FBI investigation shouldn't be undertaken.

Zero.

And for anyone to say anything else is complete nonsense.

That's why Grassley interjected when Kavanaugh was asked to endorse the investigation. Kavanaugh couldn't come up with an answer.

In 1991, the FBI spent 3 days looking into the Anita Hill matter.

3 Days.

The allegation that it would "delay" the hearings is nonsense. The Reps have already pushed it back on a number of occasions.

The Reps just want to cram it through before they have to try and deal with more problems which will invariably arise.

1 day would have done it. Journalists have already found Mark Judge. It probably could have began and ended with him alone.

Leroy42

Rjd2 wrote: »

from all accounts, he has been moaning for close to last 20 years about how partisan they have become. Obviously he went to bat for Kav and Trump but its not as insincere as some might suggest.

But was that really the place for it? The hearing was to try to get to the bottom of the allegation. Be that in favour of Kavanaough, or against him.

Instead, he ignored the testimony of Dr Ford, ignored the clear unsuitable behaviour of Kavanaugh in the hearing and instead went off on some rebuke of the political system and the workings of the DNC.

And on top of that he had nothing to say about his own party, he didn't speak up with McConnell blocked the Obama nomination, he has not said anything about Trumps attacking of the likes of HC etc.

So excuse me if I am more than a little cynical that his little intervention was nothing except a blatant attempt to try to change the subject.

Rjd2

Leroy42 wrote: »

But was that really the place for it? The hearing was to try to get to the bottom of the allegation. Be that in favour of Kavanaough, or against him.

Instead, he ignored the testimony of Dr Ford, ignored the clear unsuitable behaviour of Kavanaugh in the hearing and instead went off on some rebuke of the political system and the workings of the DNC.

And on top of that he had nothing to say about his own party, he didn't speak up with McConnell blocked the Obama nomination, he has not said anything about Trumps attacking of the likes of HC etc.

So excuse me if I am more than a little cynical that his little intervention was nothing except a blatant attempt to try to change the subject.

It was playing to the base and grandstanding to a large extent, but there was plenty in the room from both sides. It should have been held behind closed doors or the FBI should investigate.

Ultimately at the moment, just glad that I don't live in America, that hatred both sides have for each other is very scary.

Quin_Dub

everlast75 wrote: »

Zero.

And for anyone to say anything else is complete nonsense.

That's why Grassley interjected when Kavanaugh was asked to endorse the investigation. Kavanaugh couldn't come up with an answer.

In 1991, the FBI spent 3 days looking into the Anita Hill matter.

3 Days.

The allegation that it would "delay" the hearings is nonsense. The Reps have already pushed it back on a number of occasions.

The Reps just want to cram it through before they have to try and deal with more problems which will invariably arise.

1 day would have done it. Journalists have already found Mark Judge. It probably could have began and ended with him alone.

The reason for the wild rush is very simple.

The next Supreme court session begins on Monday (1st Monday of October). If Kavanaugh is not confirmed before Monday at 9am he cannot participate in any judgments that were initially heard before he gets confirmed. So the full deck of 11 cases due to be heard in the first 2 weeks of the next session will all only be voted on by the 8 current justices

So , no revocation of Roe vs Wade or anything else during the lame duck session. And if the mid-terms go as badly for the GOP as some project then all bets are off.

It's also the reason that the Dems waited this long , their political play here was to play right up to the whistle to force this exact scenario..

The Dems have upside in many ways here.. If they succeed in getting Kavanaugh delayed or rejected , they win.. If the GOP ram him through as expected then the ads write themselves for the mid-terms and they increase their chances of taking both houses..

everlast75

Quin_Dub wrote: »

The reason for the wild rush is very simple.

The next Supreme court session begins on Monday (1st Monday of October). If Kavanaugh is not confirmed before Monday at 9am he cannot participate in any judgments that were initially heard before he gets confirmed. So the full deck of 11 cases due to be heard in the first 2 weeks of the next session will all only be voted on by the 8 current justices

So , no revocation of Roe vs Wade or anything else during the lame duck session. And if the mid-terms go as badly for the GOP as some project then all bets are off.

It's also the reason that the Dems waited this long , their political play here was to play right up to the whistle to force this exact scenario..

The Dems have upside in many ways here.. If they succeed in getting Kavanaugh delayed or rejected , they win.. If the GOP ram him through as expected then the ads write themselves for the mid-terms and they increase their chances of taking both houses..

Regardless of whether the Dems waited or otherwise, there is still no reason why the Reps could not have asked the FBI on the 24th to carry out a 3 day investigation, to be presented before Thursday's hearing, if (and we all know they don't) they wanted the facts before pushing on through.

So again, there is no reason why the FBI could not have been involved before Thursday, nevermind whether they should be involved now and delay the nomination.

robinph

Quin_Dub wrote: »

If the GOP ram him through as expected then the ads write themselves for the mid-terms and they increase their chances of taking both houses..

But there probably won't be another appointment for a long time yet, and from the photos they showed of the current 8 appointments the oldest looking and most likely to be the next to die was a democrat. So will be years before the balance can be brought back to the centre again, and if that guy croaks before Trump leaves and he gets yet another appointment it will swing even further from the middle.

It's correct that there should be a balance of views between those 9 members on various issues, but expressing any overt political views should instantly exclude them from being a judge.

everlast75

Maybe increase the number of Judges to 11 and limit the term to 20 years.

Pelvis

Apparently, no matter how the vote goes today, it will still go to the Senate next week.

Not really sure what the point is of today's vote in that case.

Rhineshark

Pelvis wrote: »

Apparently, no matter how the vote goes today, it will still go to the Senate next week.

Not really sure what the point is of today's vote in that case.

It can go to the Senate even if the SJC votes it down?

Wtf at this point. Surely even Reps can see that there has been nothing normal about this who nom procedure. Admittedly, a fair few don't care.

everlast75

Pelvis wrote: »

Apparently, no matter how the vote goes today, it will still go to the Senate next week.

Not really sure what the point is of today's vote in that case.

Yep. McConnell can push it through regardless

Pelvis

Flake voting to confirm Kavanaugh.

Rhineshark

Pelvis wrote: »

Flake voting to confirm Kavanaugh.

*outburst of swearing*

Flake by name, flake by nature.

All they had to do was allow the blasted investigation.

This is the worst outcome for all involved. Frankly including Kavanaugh.

DrumSteve

Pelvis wrote: »

Flake voting to confirm Kavanaugh.

They all tow the line in the end.

pixelburp

Pelvis wrote: »

Flake voting to confirm Kavanaugh.

I'm shocked.
Shocked!
Well. Not that shocked.

If ever scenarios called for judicious meme use. Seriously, is ANYONE truly surprised by this? I expect Collins & the other 'moderates' to follow suit. The whole nomination has been the definition of political circus and anyone who seriously believed in all the affectations towards concern by GOP members, has been naive TBH.

Until SC positions are no longer life-appointments, this will keep happening. The replacement for Bader-Ginsberg is going to be an even bigger sh*tshow.

Rhineshark

pixelburp wrote: »

I'm shocked.
Shocked!
Well. Not that shocked.

If ever scenarios called for judicious meme use. Seriously, is ANYONE truly surprised by this? I expect Collins & the other 'moderates' to follow suit. The whole nomination has been the definition of political circus and anyone who seriously believed in all the affectations towards concern by GOP members, has been naive TBH.

Until SC positions are no longer life-appointments, this will keep happening. The replacement for Bader-Ginsberg is going to be an even bigger sh*tshow.

Sigh. I'm not surprised, just sickened. I did hope any of the three might develop some qualms of conscience about how this whole sh*tshow was railroaded through. Knew expecting current pack of Reps to have ethics was a long shot though.

Penn

I think it's unlikely Collins or Murkowski will vote against the others now. None of them want to be the outliers. They may have flipped if they knew there'd be a few of them, but they won't if it's just them.

Thepoet85

Willing to turn a blind eye to a potential sexual assault just to get their man in power. Would make you sick to your stomach.

Rjd2

Pelvis wrote: »

Flake voting to confirm Kavanaugh.

It's done. Flake's gimmick has been hammering Trump in public and milking sympathy from the left and pretty much voting exactly how Trump wants. Spineless cynical politician indeed.

Also looks likely a few Dems may vote for him also. Collins also will toe the line.

RobertKK

George W Bush was ringing up senators telling them to vote yes to Kavanaugh.

Quin_Dub

robinph wrote: »

But there probably won't be another appointment for a long time yet, and from the photos they showed of the current 8 appointments the oldest looking and most likely to be the next to die was a democrat. So will be years before the balance can be brought back to the centre again, and if that guy croaks before Trump leaves and he gets yet another appointment it will swing even further from the middle.

It's correct that there should be a balance of views between those 9 members on various issues, but expressing any overt political views should instantly exclude them from being a judge.

Agree with all of that, but pragmatically the Dems knew they had a virtually zero chance to stop the nomination. The GOP are going to fill that seat between now and January , regardless of what name goes forward.

So the best case scenario for them was to muddy the waters and use the fall-out to help them gain in the Mid-terms.

And, based on the last few days and the likely outcomes of the next few days , they've probably achieved that goal.

There was always going to be a GOP appointment , but what we now have is a badly tainted GOP appointment and a probable surge in voter engagement outside of the GOP core based on that.

Penn

If absolutely nothing less, this will have an impact on the mid-terms. Likely not a huge one, but it could be enough to at least mean it all wasn't for nothing.

And I really hope this won't all have been for nothing.

Quin_Dub

Rjd2 wrote: »

It's done. Flake's gimmick has been hammering Trump in public and milking sympathy from the left and pretty much voting exactly how Trump wants. Spineless cynical politician indeed.

Also looks likely a few Dems may vote for him also. Collins also will toe the line.

I really can't see that happening..Red State Dem or not.. A supporting vote for Kavanaugh in the current environment would be utterly toxic to Democrat voters..

It's not like those Red state Dems would pick up GOP voters by supporting him...

everlast75

Toobin: "If there is a weaker, more pathetic political figure in the U.S. than Jeff Flake, i'm not aware of who it is. I thought yesterday was a classic demonstration of his inability to stand for anything"

Spot on.

I hope the Dems take the house and impeach Kavanaugh.

everlast75

https://twitter.com/davidmackau/status/1045669475524038656


Wow - this is powerful!

Rjd2

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I really can't see that happening..Red State Dem or not.. A supporting vote for Kavanaugh in the current environment would be utterly toxic to Democrat voters..

It's not like those Red state Dems would pick up GOP voters by supporting him...

https://twitter.com/elainaplott/status/1045478279220797440

Manchin likes Kav a lot and its a Trump state so its feasible he may vote for him. He probably has calculated it won't do him much harm in the state that he is in if he backs him.

SimonTemplar

An impeachment would be considerably more difficult than blocking his confirmation, and would almost certainly require hard evidence.

TomOnBoard

Thargor wrote: »

Someone on Capitol Hill tried to turn the Devils Triangle into a drinking game on Wikipedia after he lied about it, what did they think the chances of that working were?

https://thenextweb.com/insider/2018/09/27/devils-triangle-wikipedia-entry-edited-by-anonymous-member-of-congress-after-kavanaugh-hearing/?amp=1

OMG!

I hope there's good evidence of the Before and After along with relevant IP Addresses...