Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

DrumSteve

Genuinely I know we think we have it bad here sometimes, but im glad I don't live in the states right now.

everlast75

SimonTemplar wrote: »

An impeachment would be considerably more difficult than blocking his confirmation, and would almost certainly require hard evidence.

Yep.

Give Ronan Farrow enough time, and he'll get it

Penn

SimonTemplar wrote: »

An impeachment would be considerably more difficult than blocking his confirmation, and would almost certainly require hard evidence.

I'd say any impeachment would more so focus on lying under oath. If it can be proven he did that, rather than proven he committed these assaults, he could likely be impeached, and I've seen people saying that they have proof he has already lied under oath during his previous confirmation hearing. He might be able to word his way out of it (I was mistaken, I didn't remember etc), but I would think that would be more likely than impeachment for sexual assault unless some hard evidence was found as you say.

Christy42

SimonTemplar wrote: »

An impeachment would be considerably more difficult than blocking his confirmation, and would almost certainly require hard evidence.

Just go for the lying in senate.

EltonJohn69

That video with flake is not a good look fro him, he really does look shameful

EltonJohn69

Aventi promising to come out with evidence from his client this weekend.... I wonder what it will be ?

EltonJohn69

will Joe Biden be quoted again ?

RobertKK

DrumSteve wrote: »

Genuinely I know we think we have it bad here sometimes, but im glad I don't live in the states right now.

If you were to visit it is no different to when Obama was in power. I was there under both presidents and nothing is different to the visitor.
I do be chatting with Americans everyday and they say they are doing better under Trump, though not all like him.

TomOnBoard

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Aventi promising to come out with evidence from his client this weekend.... I wonder what it will be ?

Avenatti needs to put up or shut up at this stage! He's been teasing out this line since the weekend and so far, his witness has been stonewalled by the Reps. I do hope he can land a meaningful punch to this appalling process... Talk about a Den of Vipers...:(:(:(:eek::eek::eek:

josip

It's very compelling watching both the US and the UK at the moment.
They're so focused on their own internal squabbles that they can't see the damage they're doing to their own countries.
Or perhaps they do see it but choose to ignore it.
Very glad I don't live in either country, now or for the foreseeable future.

Pelvis

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Aventi promising to come out with evidence from his client this weekend.... I wonder what it will be ?

He's losing an awful lot of credibility with me tbh. I don't know if he's aware, but time is of the essence here.

If he has evidence of Kavanaugh being involved in gang rape, then he should stop playing games and pursue criminal charges.

SimonTemplar

The whole Supreme Court nomination process is deeply flawed and susceptible to petty partisan squabbles. The Republicans should not have delayed Obama's nomination of Merrick Garland. And now this circus with Kavanagh.

batgoat

RobertKK wrote: »

If you were to visit it is no different to when Obama was in power. I was there under both presidents and nothing is different to the visitor.
I do be chatting with Americans everyday and they say they are doing better under Trump, though not all like him.

There's long term consequences to Trump's behaviour. He's gutted their international reputation to a greater degree than Bush ever did. Bit like how the UK have gutted their reputation but with far more ridiculous ****.

RobertKK

josip wrote: »

It's very compelling watching both the US and the UK at the moment.
They're so focused on their own internal squabbles that they can't see the damage they're doing to their own countries.
Or perhaps they do see it but choose to ignore it.
Very glad I don't live in either country, now or for the foreseeable future.

A lot of people get brainwashed by politicians and by the media.
Yesterday I had a discussion about Iran, and I was saying to some Trump supporters how wrong the US was on the Iran deal and how Trump seems to be controlled by Netanyahu on the subject.
It was with some Americans, they said to me 'why don't you go over there and see how long it is before you disappear?'
So I told them I would happily go, and that Ireland played Iran in Tehran in a world cup qualifier in the past and no one disappeared.
Then showed them what was said on the Internet about Ireland and Iran, a lot of articles from different Irish sources saying how surprised people were who went to Iran to find the people so friendly, and to forget what you thought you knew about Iran, that it is actually a good place to visit.
They had no comeback as they believed what their politicians and media told them to believe.

Brexit had a media dominated by newspaper who never had anything good to say about the EU and loudmouth politicians who were the same.

TomOnBoard

josip wrote: »

It's very compelling watching both the US and the UK at the moment.
They're so focused on their own internal squabbles that they can't see the damage they're doing to their own countries.
Or perhaps they do see it but choose to ignore it.
Very glad I don't live in either country, now or for the foreseeable future.

Vlad the Man must be bursting his sides with delight with the total chaos his minions have unleashed on the "Western World"! The 2 major powers in the Cold War being taken apart from within!!!

This won't end well!:eek::eek::eek:

seamus

everlast75 wrote: »

url]

https://twitter.com/davidmackau/status/1045669475524038656[/url]

Wow - this is powerful!

This is something of a microcosm, an illustration of crap coming down the line in the states.

This video is a setup, to a certain extent. That women's pain is real, her assault was real, she is genuinely angry, her words are not scripted. But it's also very unlikely that she went into that building unprompted, to confront Flake.

There's a reason why the cameras are filming it. The media is standing on both sides of the fence, poking the fire, fanning the flames. They don't care what happens so long as they get their views, so long as the emotions are heightened.

They don't care that for this woman and millions of other people like her, this isn't a stage. It isn't a show they're producing for "likes".

Millions of Americans are about to watch the arrogant, elitist, entitled, keg-swigging, groping, creepy, college jock that they knew in school, get appointed to the highest court in the land - even after the truth about him has been revealed.
It's one thing to see someone succeed when you know the secret truth of their scummy behaviour. It's another thing entirely to see their scumminess exposed and your country says, "Meh, who cares?".

Eventually it's going to start kicking off. There's only so long US propaganda can go on about the "American Dream" and talking about how successful people just work hard, while at the same time handing power over to people who very clearly don't deserve it.

Penn

Pelvis wrote: »

He's losing an awful lot of credibility with me tbh. I don't know if he's aware, but time is of the essence here.

If he has evidence of Kavanaugh being involved in gang rape, then he should stop playing games and pursue criminal charges.

Yeah I have to agree. More and more it's becoming about him vs Trump, especially if it's true that he's considering running for President.

Man I really wish they had a law that you had to have held a high enough political office for a minimum number of years before you could run for President.

Igotadose

SimonTemplar wrote: »

The whole Supreme Court nomination process is deeply flawed and susceptible to petty partisan squabbles. The Republicans should not have delayed Obama's nomination of Merrick Garland. And now this circus with Kavanagh.

Just watched C-span for a bit. Grassley, committee chair, pushed through a motion to have the Judiciary Committee vote on Kavanaugh at 1:30 (6:30 here.) Never done before in the committee. Grassley didn't care. 2 Democrats didn't even bother to vote (Harris and Booker), just glared.

Government as bad reality TV. Sad.
So glad I don't live there anymore.

RobertKK

batgoat wrote: »

There's long term consequences to Trump's behaviour. He's gutted their international reputation to a greater degree than Bush ever did. Bit like how the UK have gutted their reputation but with far more ridiculous ****.

The tariffs and trade disputes are not doing the US any good as it is done in a hostile way.
The Iran deal is like Netanyahu and maybe the Saudis have Trump's sex tapes.
Whether one believes in man made climate change or not, less pollution makes sense.
The behaviour in Helsinki with Putin was like he also has Trump's sex tapes.
Then all the praise for Kim Jong Un, the most brutal dictator on the planet.
Criticising Germany over their pipeline deal with Russia, but where is the US saying they will provide it cheaper?
Number of drone strikes worse than ever.

I was told 'we survived Bush and Obama, we will survive Trump'.

listermint

Sen. Flake has indicated his support for confirmation.


I hope all of this comes back to backlash them in Nov. Let it lose them the Senate.

everlast75

seamus wrote: »

This is something of a microcosm, an illustration of crap coming down the line in the states.

This video is a setup, to a certain extent. That women's pain is real, her assault was real, she is genuinely angry, her words are not scripted. But it's also very unlikely that she went into that building unprompted, to confront Flake.

There's a reason why the cameras are filming it. The media is standing on both sides of the fence, poking the fire, fanning the flames. They don't care what happens so long as they get their views, so long as the emotions are heightened.

They don't care that for this woman and millions of other people like her, this isn't a stage. It isn't a show they're producing for "likes".

Millions of Americans are about to watch the arrogant, elitist, entitled, keg-swigging, groping, creepy, college jock that they knew in school, get appointed to the highest court in the land - even after the truth about him has been revealed.
It's one thing to see someone succeed when you know the secret truth of their scummy behaviour. It's another thing entirely to see their scumminess exposed and your country says, "Meh, who cares?".

Eventually it's going to start kicking off. There's only so long US propaganda can go on about the "American Dream" and talking about how successful people just work hard, while at the same time handing power over to people who very clearly don't deserve it.

Ah I don't know. Part of me thinks that part of what you say is true, but I also think I would film someone walking up to Flake and show him the real effect his weak willed spineless decision will have, as it was the proper thing to do.

Call Me Jimmy

I expect the Avenatti accusation to blow this whole thing open. We have multiple drugged and gang-raped victims, multiple perpetrators and many more people who would have knowledge of situations at parties where they were at least hearing rumours of spiked punch or sexually aggressive behaviour. Tens of women who were groped, had their skirts pulled up etc. etc. All these witnesses, victims and perpetrators are being silent for some reason but there are so many that SOME hard info and corroborating witnesses should surface immediately.

That is of course if it isn't an obvious nonsense statement given that the women admits to returning to parties she knew women were being drugged, sexually assaulted and raped at... before herself finally becoming a victim of it... ok.

If any further evidence or corroboration comes to light about that I'll eat my hat.

batgoat

RobertKK wrote: »

The tariffs and trade disputes are not doing the US any good as it is done in a hostile way.
The Iran deal is like Netanyahu and maybe the Saudis have Trump's sex tapes.
Whether one believes in man made climate change or not, less pollution makes sense.
The behaviour in Helsinki with Putin was like he also has Trump's sex tapes.
Then all the praise for Kim Jong Un, the most brutal dictator on the planet.
Criticising Germany over their pipeline deal with Russia, but where is the US saying they will provide it cheaper?
Number of drone strikes worse than ever.

I was told 'we survived Bush and Obama, we will survive Trump'.

I have a largely American family on mother's side. Uncle would have been through everything from Mccarthyism to Nixon to Bush. He thought checks and balances would protect the US, he doesn't think so anymore.

Also Obama didn't do anything that could be perceived as irreparably damaging nation, in fact he repaired a much tarnished reputation and pulled them out of a massive economic crisis... Bush isn't even comparable at this point, when the president's behaviour is entirely unpredictable and hasn't had a controversy free day that's a hell of a lot more to come back from.

listermint

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

I expect the Avenatti accusation to blow this whole thing open. We have multiple drugged and gang-raped victims, multiple perpetrators and many more people who would have knowledge of situations at parties where they were at least hearing rumours of spiked punch or sexually aggressive behaviour. Tens of women who were groped, had their skirts pulled up etc. etc. All these witnesses, victims and perpetrators are being silent for some reason but there are so many that SOME hard info and corroborating witnesses should surface immediately.

That is of course if it isn't an obvious nonsense statement given that the women admits to returning to parties she knew women were being drugged, sexually assaulted and raped at... before herself finally becoming a victim of it... ok.

If any further evidence or corroboration comes to light about that I'll eat my hat.

We could see a stepping down if Avenatti gets lift off after confirmation.

Water John

Sen Leahy gave a powerful contribution. GOP members must be internally squirming.
He is being followed by Graham. The contrast is remarkable.

If anyone can put up a link to Sen Leahy's speech, it is worth listening to.

everlast75

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Avenatti needs to put up or shut up at this stage! He's been teasing out this line since the weekend and so far, his witness has been stonewalled by the Reps. I do hope he can land a meaningful punch to this appalling process... Talk about a Den of Vipers...:(:(:(:eek::eek::eek:

I don't get the criticism of Avenatti.

He said he would produce a credible witness and he did.

He said when he would produce her and he did.

He tried to get her to the Senate to give evidence and the GOP refused to.

He then got her to give a TV interview, as it was the only way her voice would be heard before the hearings.

He is maximising her exposure and her story, in an effort to affect the votes.

What more could he actually do?

In any event, I hope he continues to be as tenacious with this as he was on behalf of Clifford

SimonTemplar

Graham really loves the sound of his voice but is speaking a lot of nonsense.

Pelvis

Graham highlights exactly how the process is broken. The nominee is his long time friend! And the friend of other R senators, their bias means they shouldn't even be on this committee in the first place.

Call Me Jimmy

everlast75 wrote: »

I don't get the criticism of Avenatti.

He said he would produce a credible witness and he did.

He said when he would produce her and he did.

He tried to get her to the Senate to give evidence and the GOP refused to.

He then got her to give a TV interview, as it was the only way her voice would be heard before the hearings.

He is maximising her exposure and her story, in an effort to affect the votes.

What more could he actually do?

In any event, I hope he continues to be as tenacious with this as he was on behalf of Clifford

Did you read the statement in full? What's your gut instinct on that? If someone has knowledge that other women will be drugged and gang-raped at certain parties, attends those parties and sees the queues for the raping and doesn't warn anyone or ever calls the police are they not somewhat complicit?

At the beginning of a night of the raping, she's mingling with women she knows will be drugged and raped... is that not pretty evil in and of itself? And she kept putting herself in that situation until finally she gets wait for it drugged and raped...

TomOnBoard

everlast75 wrote: »

I don't get the criticism of Avenatti.

He said he would produce a credible witness and he did.

He said when he would produce her and he did.

He tried to get her to the Senate to give evidence and the GOP refused to.

He then got her to give a TV interview, as it was the only way her voice would be heard before the hearings.

He is maximising her exposure and her story, in an effort to affect the votes.

What more could he actually do?

In any event, I hope he continues to be as tenacious with this as he was on behalf of Clifford

When the Senate had no interest in hearing from her, and she wanted to testify, Avenatti should have held a Presser, immediately after Kavanaugh was finished testifying. That would have been useful. The Committee is going to vote later today. He will be voted up. Then the Senate itself will be called into session by Mc Connell either tonight or tomorrow and this will all be over by Sunday. I can't see the Reps letting it get into next week, unless a MASSIVE evidentiary bombshell is unleashed tonight! If he is confirmed before Monday, he'll be sworn in lickety-split and will be in robes for the new session next week. Once that happens, only an unlikely impeachment process will get him out!

That's why Avenatti needs to put up or shut up!