Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

Thargor

Manaforts daughters iPhones hacked and all messages dumped:

https://spectator.us/2018/07/has-mom-been-tested-for-stds-the-manaforts-home-life-and-why-it-matters/

Used to force his wife to have sex with multiple men, got angry if she didnt want to, encouraged the murder of unarmed protesters in Ukraine.

This is why some intelligence sources believe that Manafort was deliberately put into the Trump campaign by the Kremlin (taking an unpaid post). It is no coincidence, the sources say, that in a later indictment drawn up by Mueller Manafort is jointly charged with his former translator and business partner in Ukraine, Konstantin Kilimnik. Kilimnik was once an officer in Russia’s military intelligence service, known as the GRU. Trump’s former business partner, Felix Sater, told a Congressional committee: “No such thing as a former Russian spy.”

Theres no way in hell any of that is coincidental and he wasnt inserted into the campaign to manage Trump by Russia.

Leroy42

Another thing I really don't understand about Trump supporters is how they seemingly don't care just how lazy he is.

Is out out playing golf half the time, watching TV. He spends an inordinate amount of time flying to, going to, and returning from, rallies.

This is the man that was going to MAGA, drain the swamp, build the wall, repeal and replace. Yet they seem to almost take a certain pride in the fact that he doesn't do any work.

I get that people wanted change, they wanted to MAGA and any other slogan they can think of.

But why are they so accepting of a man that is clearly more focused on himself and his own worries rather than theirs. Even the tweet storm today, is nearly all about Manafort and Mueller, ie thinking about himself. Alisyn Camerota siad it to Giuliani yesterday, why is the Mueller investigation taking up any of the POTUS time, simply let it go to the destination they all know it will, ie nowhere.

Captain Obvious

Thargor wrote: »

Manaforts daughters iPhones hacked and all messages dumped:

https://spectator.us/2018/07/has-mom-been-tested-for-stds-the-manaforts-home-life-and-why-it-matters/

Used to force his wife to have sex with multiple men, got angry if she didnt want to, encouraged the murder of unarmed protesters in Ukraine.

Theres no way in hell any of that is coincidental and he wasnt inserted into the campaign to manage Trump by Russia.

Ironic when you consider "cuck" is a favoured insult used by Trump cultists.

Dohnjoe

Leroy42 wrote: »

Another thing I really don't understand about Trump supporters is how they seemingly don't care just how lazy he is.

They simply don't care about the lies, affairs, racism, sexism, lack of principles, double standards, etc, etc

They love his lack of political correctness, his hatred of the dem's, his divisiveness, his twitter tirades, his "**** everyone" approach. I always predicted the US would vote in a celebrity based entirely on populism - and they did (I only got the name wrong, I thought it would be Arnie)

This isn't some tiny hardcore group of supporters, it's a significant swath of America. It's great to look at all that's wrong with Trump, but he isn't the real problem here.

Dog Man Star

Igotadose wrote: »

I think Giuliani basically got old and gaga. By far not nearly as sharp as he was when 9/11 happened in 2001. His personal life's been in a shambles in the last few years as well, splitting with wife 3 (Judith Nathan) who caused a rift between him & his family. He even nearly got booed out of a Yankee's game a couple months back!

Having grown up in NYC from 1959 to 2003, I can safely tell you that Donald J. Trump *never* was NYC. He was a tabloid freak in the era of "Studio 54," whose salacious escapades were occasionally picked up by the tabloids. No one had any respect for that slime. Nothing he's done comes as a surprise, except for how dumb and lazy he's been shown to be since becoming POTUS. The racism/anti-immigration fervor/barely hidden anti-Semitism aren't new.

In his book, Comey (who I think is the greatest of all men - declaring my bias) says that Giuliani always wanted to be at the centre of everything they did. It was one of the reasons that Comey left his team in New York and retreated to rural New York State with his family. Comey speaks highly of Giuliani (pre Trump) but says that Rudy loved the limelight and would jump at any media opportunity. Comey wrote this in early 2017 so again it turns out to be true.

I cannot state more highly what a great man Comey is. If you ignore the slander and read his book, his decision on the Clinton e-mail scandal and his guilt over whether it was him that swung the election to Trump is up to the reader. Comey was impressive to me in every way, a model American FBI leader. He excuses nothing, he explains everything.

Dog Man Star

Speaking of books on this presidency, I have read:

- A Higher Loyalty (James Comey)
- Collusion (Luke Harding)
- Facts and Fears (James Clapper)
- Soul of America (Jon Meacham)

The Collusion book was the most incredible. Every word of Luke Harding's book is playing out in real time now. He remains a personal friend of Christopher Steele and to date, not one word of the "salacious and phoney" dossier has been proved untrue. Not one word. NOT ONE WORD.

Make yourself a bacon sandwich and pour a coffee - this is a podcast of Harding talking to Russell Brand. After this, you will never believe in the "witch hunt guff" again.

https://www.russellbrand.com/podcast/ep-39-putin-trump-global-gangsters-old-old-luke-harding/

Taytoland

With Trump for well over a year it was no collusion and now it's collusion is not a crime. You got to laugh.

jobbridge4life

Leroy42 wrote: »

Another thing I really don't understand about Trump supporters is how they seemingly don't care just how lazy he is.

Is out out playing golf half the time, watching TV. He spends an inordinate amount of time flying to, going to, and returning from, rallies.

This is the man that was going to MAGA, drain the swamp, build the wall, repeal and replace. Yet they seem to almost take a certain pride in the fact that he doesn't do any work.

I get that people wanted change, they wanted to MAGA and any other slogan they can think of.

But why are they so accepting of a man that is clearly more focused on himself and his own worries rather than theirs. Even the tweet storm today, is nearly all about Manafort and Mueller, ie thinking about himself. Alisyn Camerota siad it to Giuliani yesterday, why is the Mueller investigation taking up any of the POTUS time, simply let it go to the destination they all know it will, ie nowhere.

It is a cult. It is a cult. It is a cult.

Trump literally proclaimed himself their saviour, and a very, very significant proportion of his loyal base believe in real terms such claims.

Dog Man Star

jobbridge4life wrote: »

It is a cult. It is a cult. It is a cult.

Trump literally proclaimed himself their saviour, and a very, very significant proportion of his loyal base believe in real terms such claims.

It's no great achievement to appear to the lowest denominator, Eastenders and Coronation Street have been doing that for years.

Trump creating a border bogey-man is a lie. More people are going back than arriving in the US. But it's easy fodder: scary foreigners, colored people, Trump cares about his dollars only.

UsedToWait

Dog Man Star wrote: »

Speaking of books on this presidency, I have read:

- A Higher Loyalty (James Comey)
- Collusion (Luke Harding)
- Facts and Fears (James Clapper)
- Soul of America (Jon Meacham)

The Collusion book was the most incredible. Every word of Luke Harding's book is playing out in real time now.

Read Comey, Harding, and of course Fire and Fury.
I must admit to differing in my assessment of Comey to your good self.

Of course, all the current books are pencil sketches of the full picture we'll only get with time.
I'd love to be able to jump forward to the book store of 20 years hence, to see how history treats this unprecedented era of global disorder, much of which appears to be at the whim of a former KGB agent.

everlast75

Comey has a lot of admirable traits, but he has a touch of sanctimonious about him.

That said, i believe him 100%

Water John

Would it be that Trump's worry on Manafort focuses on the fact the PM is being tried for tax reasons, a la Al Capone. That this may also be how himself is snookered. Not impeachment for collusion with Russia but simply on, tax evasion.

dr.fuzzenstein

Water John wrote: »

Would it be that Trump's worry on Manafort focuses on the fact the PM is being tried for tax reasons, a la Al Capone. That this may also be how himself is snookered. Not impeachment for collusion with Russia but simply on, tax evasion.

Well, that's America.
You can shoot a guy on fifth, collude with Russia, sell your voters down the swanney, but god help you if you don't pay your taxes.

StringerBell

mcmoustache wrote: »

Today's tweeting has been a bit more unhinged than usual and that's saying something.

Demanding that Jeff Sessions end the investigation is the first time that he has publicly done so. We know he tried to get Sessions to do this before and that Mueller has been investigating those events already but this is the first time that he did so in front of the world.

Yep, as I said a few days ago

Me wrote:

Manaforts trial starts Tuesday and the spending bill is on the horizon. Expect more Trump behavior over the week. He is devolving a little is my reading, I think the stress is beginning to have an affect on him. He has been unable to control the narrative completely for the first time so I would expect more extreme behaviour, language and moves as he continues his descent.

The WH have been getting less and less communicative officially (3 press briefings in July, 5 in June) with the daily briefing (obviously the name is now redundant) and Trump in person refuses to respond to any reporters questions. He does enjoy his rallies alright, who wouldn't enjoy ranting along and getting cheered regardless? The point being though that unless they actually break his fingers to keep him away from his Twitter we could get quite the show with his continued devolution over the coming weeks.

Toobin speculates that this trial (Manafort is facing two trials this summer) will last only about 3 weeks so it will not be a drawn out affair, which will only serve to pile the pressure up more if it is something that is bothering him already.

Penn

Trumps lawyers called the New York Times to insist that Trumps tweet was "not an order" to Sessions.

https://twitter.com/christinawilkie/status/1024749410255814656?s=19

Leroy42

So basically Trump is like a King Lear (I think that's the one, been a while) screaming off into the mist about the unfairness of the world (twitter), whilst those around him carry on regardless.

When your own solicitors on coming on to the media to tell them that it is just inane ramblings of a crazy man you need to seriously consider what you are doing.

And why the NYT? Are they, after CNN I assume, like the worst paper in the world ever?

*I am probably hopelessly mixing up all shorts of plays in that!

8mv

UsedToWait wrote: »

Clearly a wind up merchant.

He / She will be back as a re-reg. The same poster has had a number of user names and mis-spells the same words regularly - one in particular - that makes it fairly easy to identify them.

Christy42

StringerBell wrote: »

mcmoustache wrote: »

Today's tweeting has been a bit more unhinged than usual and that's saying something.

Demanding that Jeff Sessions end the investigation is the first time that he has publicly done so. We know he tried to get Sessions to do this before and that Mueller has been investigating those events already but this is the first time that he did so in front of the world.

Yep, as I said a few days ago

Me wrote:

Manaforts trial starts Tuesday and the spending bill is on the horizon. Expect more Trump behavior over the week. He is devolving a little is my reading, I think the stress is beginning to have an affect on him. He has been unable to control the narrative completely for the first time so I would expect more extreme behaviour, language and moves as he continues his descent.

The WH have been getting less and less communicative officially (3 press briefings in July, 5 in June) with the daily briefing (obviously the name is now redundant) and Trump in person refuses to respond to any reporters questions. He does enjoy his rallies alright, who wouldn't enjoy ranting along and getting cheered regardless? The point being though that unless they actually break his fingers to keep him away from his Twitter we could get quite the show with his continued devolution over the coming weeks.

Toobin speculates that this trial (Manafort is facing two trials this summer) will last only about 3 weeks so it will not be a drawn out affair, which will only serve to pile the pressure up more if it is something that is bothering him already.

Look at the stress of the job at the best of times. See how much Obama and Bush changed over their tenure. Now imagine the walls closing in as well.

Admittedly Trump does not work as hard as those two but the sheer stress of the situation could destroy him before the investigation is complete.

aloyisious

mcmoustache wrote: »

I think the DOJ takes them more seriously than that:

So if he says anything, or passes comment on, the judge's handling of the court case involving Manafort, it'd be an official statement by the president and might lead to a crossing of the line separating the administration of justice by the courts and the office of the President. It might even count as an attempt of obstruction of justice, if not also contempt of court.

Do either count as a matter which would force congress to bring impeachment charges against the president?

If my memory serves me correctly, SHS stated [in response to a question from the floor] many months ago at one of her question and answer sessions with the media in the W/H press briefing room that presidential tweets were official presidential statements.

Itssoeasy

Penn wrote: »

Trumps lawyers called the New York Times to insist that Trumps tweet was "not an order" to Sessions.

https://twitter.com/christinawilkie/status/1024749410255814656?s=19

So, is it the official POTUS twitter account that is only covered by the archive rule or is it the one that the president uses ?

To me(and i'm not a lawyer) but it sounded like a command.

borderlinemeath

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So, is it the official POTUS twitter account that is only covered by the archive rule or is it the one that the president uses ?

To me(and i'm not a lawyer) but it sounded like a command.

To me it sounded like a warning to Sessions. Even though Sessions recused himself from the investigation it was a shout out to tow the line or go the way of several in the administration before him. Trump is running scared. And he's running out of people to fire without opening himself up to overstepping the mark and lining himself up for impeachment. Right now he's a danger to himself as he could literally come out with anything to try and save himself or Jr.

derb12

This Manafort trial is fascinating. Apart from witnessing some of the ugliest men’s jackets I have ever seen, I am amazed that he hasn’t done a deal, especially with his next case and codefendant kilimnik in the pipeline. He its facing spending the rest of his days behind bars.
The words of Clint Watts - “follow the trail of dead Russians” spring to mind. Manafort is all too aware of the type of Russian scumbag he has connected himself to and so he may never turn. Which is a shame as he is an obvious Russian link and was coordinating at least with deripaska.

Dog Man Star wrote: »

Speaking of books on this presidency, I have read:

- A Higher Loyalty (James Comey)
- Collusion (Luke Harding)
- Facts and Fears (James Clapper)
- Soul of America (Jon Meacham)

The Collusion book was the most incredible. Every word of Luke Harding's book is playing out in real time now. He remains a personal friend of Christopher Steele and to date, not one word of the "salacious and phoney" dossier has been proved untrue. Not one word. NOT ONE WORD.

Make yourself a bacon sandwich and pour a coffee - this is a podcast of Harding talking to Russell Brand. After this, you will never believe in the "witch hunt guff" again.

https://www.russellbrand.com/podcast/ep-39-putin-trump-global-gangsters-old-old-luke-harding/

If you haven’t already done so, you should also read Russian Roulette Isikoff/Corn - it is very compelling.

derb12

Also, bob Woodward - of Woodward and Bernstein fame - is bringing out a book on sept 11th which is going to be great. Real sources (all recorded apparently) from inside the whitehouse.

StringerBell

Thing I forgot to say earlier, just on his rally last night. At some point there is going to be people hurt because of the carry on of Trump and his ridiculous puppets and downright scummy behavior by the likes of SHS.

Ramping up the anger and rage in an environment like that is going to end badly at some point.

SHS continues her campaign of lies then in the only WH comment on it. Of course they will feign shock and innocence when someone does get hurt but it will be as hollow as their sense of integrity.

A highly combustible situation is developing there

captbarnacles

If Trump thinks he or his family are going down I guess he will call on his supporters to use their 'second amendment rights' against the 'tyranny of the deep state'.

God knows what happens then.

everlast75

I try listen to "the other side" as much as I can. In that regard, Alan Dershowitz is a contributor and gets a lot of air time. He can make the odd good legal point, but he was on 360 last night saying that it would be unjust for anyone to be tried by virtue of the content of their tweets, without acknowledging that Trump is slightly different than the average joe.
According to him, Trump was just sounding off.

Leroy42

everlast75 wrote: »

I try listen to "the other side" as much as I can. In that regard, Alan Dershowitz is a contributor and gets a lot of air time. He can make the odd good legal point, but he was on 360 last night saying that it would be unjust for anyone to be tried by virtue of the content of their tweets, without acknowledging that Trump is slightly different than the average joe.
According to him, Trump was just sounding off.

Its always a good idea to listen to both sides, at least to a point.

I don't understand what Dershowitz is trying to claim here? It is perfectly reasonable to take something someone said prior to a crime into the investigation of that crime.

For example, in a murder trial, a husband (who killed his wife) may have told a work colleague that she was a cow and that he couldn't stand her. Doesn't prove he did it, but shows his thinking. Doesn't Trump tweet show his thinking in terms of getting the investigation stopped.

Why would twitter, which is simply an electronic means of communication, be treated any differently?

The question of whether it is to be taken as an order is different. But of course he is skewing the argument. Nobody is going to be tried over nothing but their tweets. Trumps actions should also be looked into. And the red blinking light is the firing of Comey.

Igotadose

Dohnjoe wrote: »

They simply don't care about the lies, affairs, racism, sexism, lack of principles, double standards, etc, etc

They love his lack of political correctness, his hatred of the dem's, his divisiveness, his twitter tirades, his "**** everyone" approach. I always predicted the US would vote in a celebrity based entirely on populism - and they did (I only got the name wrong, I thought it would be Arnie)

This isn't some tiny hardcore group of supporters, it's a significant swath of America. It's great to look at all that's wrong with Trump, but he isn't the real problem here.

Arnie wasn't eligible (foreign born.) Otherwise he'd have made a much better president than Trump - had some serious political experience, and enough money not to be beholding to the GOP. But you're spot on about the problem, it's not Trump, and the next one will be worse.

Dohnjoe

everlast75 wrote: »

I try listen to "the other side" as much as I can. In that regard, Alan Dershowitz is a contributor and gets a lot of air time. He can make the odd good legal point, but he was on 360 last night saying that it would be unjust for anyone to be tried by virtue of the content of their tweets, without acknowledging that Trump is slightly different than the average joe.
According to him, Trump was just sounding off.

People have been arrested, lost their jobs, careers over single tweets

This isn't some average joe, this is a man with his finger on the nuclear button in arguably the most powerful job in the world

Phrases like "sounding off", "locker room talk", etc are manipulative phrases designed to deliberately mitigate or downplay the severity of statements

Penn

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/01/us/politics/trump-mueller-investigation-interview.html

Trump still pushing to allow Mueller to interview him believing he can convince Mueller he did nothing wrong, while Trump's lawyers trying to talk Trump out of it or change terms of the interview to allow written answers to some questions.